Total Football (Very Fluid)

[skyline72]

2 hours ago, daveb653 said:

Well, which is it?

That match was using 4231.

[daveb653]

51 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

That match was using 4231.

Oh really? That surprises me for some reason, I just assumed it would be 4-1-2-3. I'm still struggling to get my AM involved and ST scoring as much I'd like in my 4-2-3-1, though Im using 2 Dm's in mine.

[skyline72]

5 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

Oh really? That surprises me for some reason, I just assumed it would be 4-1-2-3. I'm still struggling to get my AM involved and ST scoring as much I'd like in my 4-2-3-1, though Im using 2 Dm's in mine.

Pogba and Martial is playing that AM and ST role for me.

They are scoring for fun. 

[daveb653]

13 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Pogba and Martial is playing that AM and ST role for me.

They are scoring for fun. 

Martial has been absolute rubbish for me, granted I play on the left to give greenwood game time but just never performs, even up front. Pogba is class but got torn knee ligaments at he start of this season and now has acceleration of 9 and 10 pace (not sure what he starts with). But still performs well.

how do you set up your front 4 to get them scoring? Overall I'm happy with my tactic, but just want my Am and ST to be creating/finishing more chances. Rashford was my top scorer from LW on 12, though  I had a fair few different scorers.

[yonko]

6 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

What a team that is 

Thank you. Without the right players no tactic can be successful, especially this one. 

Messi retired at the end of the season and I made a few transfers. Sold Barella and replaced him with Trent Alexander Arnold. Sold Lenglet, Sterling and Arthur to make room for some developing regens. I have ridiculous amount of money and no need to buy anyone for a long time. I spend money on maintaining facilities at the highest levels. Perhaps I can try expanding the stadium.  

I'm thinking of trying a more adventurous shape. Hence why I needed Trent as he can play WBR. Barella was retrained to only play DR and I didn't feel like retraining him again. 

I'm starting to face a lot defensive shape formations with 3 CDs which makes it hard to press them and attack them with my current formation. So I need something like Rashidi's 235 Galileo tactic to batter them up. Of course, the idea and instruction will stay mostly the same, just different shape with more players higher up the field for pressing purposes. 

[TheJanitor]

You know a thread is good if you load FM before you even finished reading. Picked my FM19 save with Lyon after a while without playing.

I do hope you continue updating your Benfica thread, it's great and your style of writing is the best, really.

[anxiousAnarchist]

With some slight adjustments, this worked phenomenally with Napoli! I'm still on FM18 as well, and their squad is so fantastic. Mertens, Insigne, and Callejon form such an electric front three, great movement, pace, and technical skills on each of them. Unfortunately, Mertens decided to ditch me for Liverpool in January, and despite a huge lead, the league ended up being much closer come May. Napoli's spine is so well constructed and balanced, it was fun just to chop together different combinations. I picked up Lautaro Martinez as a makeshift replacement for Mertens, played Callejon as a Winger instead of IFs and mixed up the roles in my midfield depending on the combination of who was playing for an overall very enjoyable save.

 

• Amadou Diawara is great on either side of the field, though his low Off the Ball meant he was usually deployed as a DMd, DLPd or BBM. When I was expecting a tough game, he was my most stable player at the DM slot
• Hamsik is the skillful creator/finisher from midfield, classic Mezzala, but injuries hampered his season a bit
• Allen was fantastic as a BBM, but from time to time could do a job in DM if I wanted to inject a bit more physicality and dynamism
• Jorginho is, of course, the emblematic DLPd, and in games where I expected the lion's share of possession he controlled the tempo wonderfully
• Zielinski never quite found his footing in league play, but was a reliable back up in cup games and such
• Marko Rog was an absolute revelation, super hard working, super physical and was my most prolific midfielder in front of goal over the course of the season, a great run of form while Hamsik was injured from December to January meant Rog seized his place and played so well the rest of the season I couldn't drop him

If anyone wants a save that avoids a mega-club yet still gets to play some brilliant football, give Napoli a try!

Edited June 4, 2020 by anxiousAnarchist

[skyline72]

20 hours ago, daveb653 said:

Martial has been absolute rubbish for me, granted I play on the left to give greenwood game time but just never performs, even up front. Pogba is class but got torn knee ligaments at he start of this season and now has acceleration of 9 and 10 pace (not sure what he starts with). But still performs well.

how do you set up your front 4 to get them scoring? Overall I'm happy with my tactic, but just want my Am and ST to be creating/finishing more chances. Rashford was my top scorer from LW on 12, though  I had a fair few different scorers.

CF(s)

IF(s) AM(s) IF(s)

PI:

IF - Sit narrower, Roam and get Further Forward

AM - Dribble More, Go Further Forward, Move into channels.

 

Thats what I can remember now. Will double check later when Im back home. 

 

@daveb653 just checked. Above is correct.

Edited June 4, 2020 by skyline72

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

5 hours ago, anxiousAnarchist said:

With some slight adjustments, this worked phenomenally with Napoli! I'm still on FM18 as well, and their squad is so fantastic. Mertens, Insigne, and Callejon form such an electric front three, great movement, pace, and technical skills on each of them. Unfortunately, Mertens decided to ditch me for Liverpool in January, and despite a huge lead, the league ended up being much closer come May. Napoli's spine is so well constructed and balanced, it was fun just to chop together different combinations. I picked up Lautaro Martinez as a makeshift replacement for Mertens, played Callejon as a Winger instead of IFs and mixed up the roles in my midfield depending on the combination of who was playing for an overall very enjoyable save.

 

• Amadou Diawara is great on either side of the field, though his low Off the Ball meant he was usually deployed as a DMd, DLPd or BBM. When I was expecting a tough game, he was my most stable player at the DM slot
• Hamsik is the skillful creator/finisher from midfield, classic Mezzala, but injuries hampered his season a bit
• Allen was fantastic as a BBM, but from time to time could do a job in DM if I wanted to inject a bit more physicality and dynamism
• Jorginho is, of course, the emblematic DLPd, and in games where I expected the lion's share of possession he controlled the tempo wonderfully
• Zielinski never quite found his footing in league play, but was a reliable back up in cup games and such
• Marko Rog was an absolute revelation, super hard working, super physical and was my most prolific midfielder in front of goal over the course of the season, a great run of form while Hamsik was injured from December to January meant Rog seized his place and played so well the rest of the season I couldn't drop him

If anyone wants a save that avoids a mega-club yet still gets to play some brilliant football, give Napoli a try!

 Brilliant. Thank you for sharing.

I agree about the Napoli squad. I believe FM2018 would be taking place immediately after the peak Sarri season.

[skyline72]

Playing inside PSG box.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by skyline72

[yonko]

3 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Playing inside PSG box.

 

That's nice. I see you've retrained Soler to play RB or at least I assume. 

What set up are you using here? I see you posted the roles for the front 4 but what is the rest? De Jong I assume as DLP - defend or support? Are you focusing play through the middle? Is the other CM a Carrilero?

[skyline72]

8 minutes ago, yonko said:

That's nice. I see you've retrained Soler to play RB or at least I assume. 

What set up are you using here? I see you posted the roles for the front 4 but what is the rest? De Jong I assume as DLP - defend or support? Are you focusing play through the middle? Is the other CM a Carrilero?

Yea, I was out of RB and Soler's attribute was good for RB so I played him there. 

 

De Jong is on DLP(d)

Other CM is just a simple CM(d). I will put a box to box player here though.

LB/RB is WB(s)

CBs is BPD(d)

GK is SK(d)

 

Yes, I did have the focus play through middle. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by skyline72

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

5 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Playing inside PSG box.

 

Really making me eat my words about the Man Utd squad 

[themadsheep2001]

Not sure who was mentioning Inside forward vs Inverted winger instructions but even with their very attacking mentality, inside forwards on support so contribute heavily in defence 

[skyline72]

6 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Really making me eat my words about the Man Utd squad 

After much needed clearing of deadwood and bringing in the players needed. 

Starting of the 3rd season. Didnt bring in anyone. Sold off Lukaku and Lingard to make space for the youths to be promoted. 

[yonko]

11 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Yea, I was out of RB and Soler's attribute was good for RB so I played him there. 

 

De Jong is on DLP(d)

Other CM is just a simple CM(d). I will put a box to box player here though.

LB/RB is WB(s)

CBs is BPD(d)

GK is SK(d)

 

Yes, I did have the focus play through middle. 

Yeah I could guess the roles pretty much. Just wasn't sure about your other CM - it looked a little wider in the channel, so I thought maybe Carrilero. But since you're focusing play through the middle, that increases the mentality of the DLP-D and CM-D

Are you using Attacking Team Mentality?

I'm so tempted yet again to try using a 4231 formation. But every time I try, I end up going back to my favorite 4123 shape. 

[yonko]

9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Not sure who was mentioning Inside forward vs Inverted winger instructions but even with their very attacking mentality, inside forwards on support so contribute heavily in defence 

It was me who mentioned that IF on Support still contribute defensively even though their individual mentality is Very Attacking.

I use IF-S at AML and IW-S at AMR. I haven't noticed any obvious difference how each contributes defensively. I watch all my matches on Comprehensive highlights.  

[skyline72]

45 minutes ago, yonko said:

Yeah I could guess the roles pretty much. Just wasn't sure about your other CM - it looked a little wider in the channel, so I thought maybe Carrilero. But since you're focusing play through the middle, that increases the mentality of the DLP-D and CM-D

Are you using Attacking Team Mentality?

I'm so tempted yet again to try using a 4231 formation. But every time I try, I end up going back to my favorite 4123 shape. 

Am using Overload or Very Attacking.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

It was me who mentioned that IF on Support still contribute defensively even though their individual mentality is Very Attacking.

I use IF-S at AML and IW-S at AMR. I haven't noticed any obvious difference how each contributes defensively. I watch all my matches on Comprehensive highlights.  

That's interesting. I do wonder how the tactics creator defines Positive, Attacking and Very Attacking. I am wondering if Attacking is a very narrow window, as every time I experiment I mostly seem to get stuck on Positive or Very Attacking. Perhaps 'Very Attacking' is not as extreme as I'd assumed.

I am undoubtedly something of an idealist when it comes to tactics. Pretty much all of my tactics will have:

• At least one DC on the same mentality as the DMd or MCd for compactness centrally.
• DR/L on the same mentality, or higher, as the AMR/L for compactness on the flanks; and to attack together rather than independently.
• Any playmakers on mentality of balanced, or above; ideally positive.
• Avoid 'extreme' mentalities at either end of the spectrum; very attacking or very defensive.

More pragmatically I don't expect to see these clearly on a game-by-game basis but over the course of the season - I think at least - they contribute to balancing the increasingly attacking collective play.

Aside from the match engine, I find that looking at statistics over the course of a season can tell you if how things are working.

This is an example from early in this save when we used highly structured positional play.

You can see loads of stuff from here about mentality, playmakers, creative freedom and generally how your players' development is showing through in matches.

Any time I make changes I keep an eye on things like the trade-off between pass completion % vs chances created, shooting accuracy etc. Over the course of a couple of seasons you can get quite a few insights which you can then apply.

In Football Manager 2018 terms I typically find a mentality of 17 to be about as high as I'll go before pass completion and shooting accuracy starts to fall off as they start playing hollywood passes. Difficult to say whether that'd be considered Attacking or Very Attacking.

Who knows, maybe in Football Manager 2020 individual mentality is just label like Team Fluidity and it's not making any difference at all! 

[skyline72]

Pass pass pass

 

[yonko]

10 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Am using Overload or Very Attacking.

 

6 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Pass pass pass

 

Interesting. Lovely team passing and goal. Which mentality is this with?

 

7 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

That's interesting. I do wonder how the tactics creator defines Positive, Attacking and Very Attacking. I am wondering if Attacking is a very narrow window, as every time I experiment I mostly seem to get stuck on Positive or Very Attacking. Perhaps 'Very Attacking' is not as extreme as I'd assumed.

I am undoubtedly something of an idealist when it comes to tactics. Pretty much all of my tactics will have:

• At least one DC on the same mentality as the DMd or MCd for compactness centrally.
• DR/L on the same mentality, or higher, as the AMR/L for compactness on the flanks; and to attack together rather than independently.
• Any playmakers on mentality of balanced, or above; ideally positive.
• Avoid 'extreme' mentalities at either end of the spectrum; very attacking or very defensive.

More pragmatically I don't expect to see these clearly on a game-by-game basis but over the course of the season - I think at least - they contribute to balancing the increasingly attacking collective play.

Aside from the match engine, I find that looking at statistics over the course of a season can tell you if how things are working.

This is an example from early in this save when we used highly structured positional play.

You can see loads of stuff from here about mentality, playmakers, creative freedom and generally how your players' development is showing through in matches.

Any time I make changes I keep an eye on things like the trade-off between pass completion % vs chances created, shooting accuracy etc. Over the course of a couple of seasons you can get quite a few insights which you can then apply.

In Football Manager 2018 terms I typically find a mentality of 17 to be about as high as I'll go before pass completion and shooting accuracy starts to fall off as they start playing hollywood passes. Difficult to say whether that'd be considered Attacking or Very Attacking.

Who knows, maybe in Football Manager 2020 individual mentality is just label like Team Fluidity and it's not making any difference at all! 

I don't know really what the individual player mentality labels mean in terms of numbers. I was never so hung up on the number anyway. Maybe you can ask one of the SI guys to explain how it works or what it means in FM20. 

[Djuicer]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

 

Interesting. Lovely team passing and goal. Which mentality is this with?

 

I don't know really what the individual player mentality labels mean in terms of numbers. I was never so hung up on the number anyway. Maybe you can ask one of the SI guys to explain how it works or what it means in FM20. 

Regarding the player mentalities I think they went away from numbers for a reason and dont really want to let us know which numbers are under each label. Makes sense from a reality perspective anyway. Telling a player to focus on attack makes sense. Telling someone to be lets say ”15” in mentality is a bit harder. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 minute ago, Djuicer said:

Regarding the player mentalities I think they went away from numbers for a reason and dont really want to let us know which numbers are under each label. Makes sense from a reality perspective anyway. Telling a player to focus on attack makes sense. Telling someone to be lets say ”15” in mentality is a bit harder. 

The problem for me is when you cannot tell someone to attack. You can tell them to play either positive, or very attacking otherwise have to adjust your entire system. 

To me you should be able to set individual mentalities directly. Not as a function of team mentality and duty. In real life if you want someone to attack you'd tell them to attack, not to "play a support duty within an attacking team mentality".

There's simply too much the current Tactics Creator doesn't allow you to do.

[nabildx]

On 02/06/2020 at 18:11, gpassosbh said:

So these are the tactics I'll try to use in a save (did not decided the team yet, but I'm thinking in Benfica, Ajax or Man Utd). I got everyone on Positive Mentality, but to get this, I'll have to go Strikerless (thanks to Guido and his site Strikerless for the ideas).

For Home Games and Away, I'll use this one:

For Home Games and Team I know I can beat, I'll go with this one:

And for Away Games, European Games or when I was underdog, I'll use this one:

 

So, let me know your thoughts on the formations, and suggestions.

Thanks

so how are these tactics going for you?

 

[themadsheep2001]

15 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

That's interesting. I do wonder how the tactics creator defines Positive, Attacking and Very Attacking. I am wondering if Attacking is a very narrow window, as every time I experiment I mostly seem to get stuck on Positive or Very Attacking. Perhaps 'Very Attacking' is not as extreme as I'd assumed.

I am undoubtedly something of an idealist when it comes to tactics. Pretty much all of my tactics will have:

• At least one DC on the same mentality as the DMd or MCd for compactness centrally.
• DR/L on the same mentality, or higher, as the AMR/L for compactness on the flanks; and to attack together rather than independently.
• Any playmakers on mentality of balanced, or above; ideally positive.
• Avoid 'extreme' mentalities at either end of the spectrum; very attacking or very defensive.

More pragmatically I don't expect to see these clearly on a game-by-game basis but over the course of the season - I think at least - they contribute to balancing the increasingly attacking collective play.

Aside from the match engine, I find that looking at statistics over the course of a season can tell you if how things are working.

This is an example from early in this save when we used highly structured positional play.

You can see loads of stuff from here about mentality, playmakers, creative freedom and generally how your players' development is showing through in matches.

Any time I make changes I keep an eye on things like the trade-off between pass completion % vs chances created, shooting accuracy etc. Over the course of a couple of seasons you can get quite a few insights which you can then apply.

In Football Manager 2018 terms I typically find a mentality of 17 to be about as high as I'll go before pass completion and shooting accuracy starts to fall off as they start playing hollywood passes. Difficult to say whether that'd be considered Attacking or Very Attacking.

Who knows, maybe in Football Manager 2020 individual mentality is just label like Team Fluidity and it's not making any difference at all! 

The movement of an Inside Forward on support is more aggressive, they will move into the channels earlier, they will move higher up the pitch earlier too at times. Whereas an Inverted winger can be found starting both deeper and wide, and will often cut inside later than an inside forward support does

[yonko]

17 hours ago, Djuicer said:

Regarding the player mentalities I think they went away from numbers for a reason and dont really want to let us know which numbers are under each label. Makes sense from a reality perspective anyway. Telling a player to focus on attack makes sense. Telling someone to be lets say ”15” in mentality is a bit harder. 

 

17 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

The problem for me is when you cannot tell someone to attack. You can tell them to play either positive, or very attacking otherwise have to adjust your entire system. 

To me you should be able to set individual mentalities directly. Not as a function of team mentality and duty. In real life if you want someone to attack you'd tell them to attack, not to "play a support duty within an attacking team mentality".

There's simply too much the current Tactics Creator doesn't allow you to do.

I agree. I think we need better ways to modify individual mentalities within team mentality structure. That's what the shapes used to do before - they either brought the individual mentalities together or spread them apart more, going from Very Fluid to Very Structured.

It is very weird for example how IF on Support and Attack has Very Attacking mentality either way (with Positive Team Mentality). Also IW on Support is Positive while on Attack duty he becomes Very Attacking. For some reason the Attacking is skipped over and appears only when using Overlap TI. 

I'm fine with labels rather than numbers to represent mentality structures. It makes it more realistic. But we definitely need more way to influence individual mentalities. I also think that certain roles should come with different individual mentalities depending on their function. For example, I like how SI separated the IF and IW roles in terms of individual mentalities. However I feel they omitted the Attacking level. To me it should be like this:

IW Support = Positive

IF support = Attacking

IW attack = Attacking

IF attack = Very Attacking

I also think some ST roles need better separation in terms of individual mentality. Currently we get Balanced or Very Attacking for Support and Attack Duty. Positive and Attacking are missing. Not all roles on Support or Attack duty should have the same mentality. Some Support Duty Roles can be Balanced (False 9) while others could be Positive (CF Support). Some Attack Duty Roles could be Attacking (DLF Attack) while others Very Attacking (AF Attack).

In midfield roles we also are missing the Attacking individual mentality. We go from Positive for Support Duty to Very Attacking for Attack Duty. We could have something like this:

Very Attacking = CM Attack, Mez Attack

Attacking = AP Attack, RPM Support, Mez Support

Positive = AP Support, CM Support, BBM

Balanced = DLP Support, Carrilero, BWM Support

We can probably have the same for the Fullback/Wingback Roles as well:

Very Attacking = CWB Attack

Attacking = WB Attack, CWB Support, IWB Attack, FB Attack

Positive = WB Support, IWB Support, FB Support

Balanced = WB Defend, IWB Defend, FB Defend

 

What do you guys think?

[yonko]

12 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The movement of an Inside Forward on support is more aggressive, they will move into the channels earlier, they will move higher up the pitch earlier too at times. Whereas an Inverted winger can be found starting both deeper and wide, and will often cut inside later than an inside forward support does

Do you know why the IF on Support is Very Attacking rather than Attacking? It makes sense that he will have higher individual mentality than a IW on the same duty. I'm also curious why there isn't a bigger individual mentality spread between different roles and duties. For Striker's roles for example we either have Balanced or Very Attacking and nothing in between. For CM roles we either have Positive or Very Attacking but never Attacking. 

 

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, yonko said:

Do you know why the IF on Support is Very Attacking rather than Attacking? It makes sense that he will have higher individual mentality than a IW on the same duty. I'm also curious why there isn't a bigger individual mentality spread between different roles and duties. For Striker's roles for example we either have Balanced or Very Attacking and nothing in between. For CM roles we either have Positive or Very Attacking but never Attacking. 

 

No, that's  probably a question for @Jack Joyce, because the movement between IF/S and IF/A is also clearly different, the latter being more aggressive still.

[Djuicer]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

I agree. I think we need better ways to modify individual mentalities within team mentality structure. That's what the shapes used to do before - they either brought the individual mentalities together or spread them apart more, going from Very Fluid to Very Structured.

It is very weird for example how IF on Support and Attack has Very Attacking mentality either way (with Positive Team Mentality). Also IW on Support is Positive while on Attack duty he becomes Very Attacking. For some reason the Attacking is skipped over and appears only when using Overlap TI. 

I'm fine with labels rather than numbers to represent mentality structures. It makes it more realistic. But we definitely need more way to influence individual mentalities. I also think that certain roles should come with different individual mentalities depending on their function. For example, I like how SI separated the IF and IW roles in terms of individual mentalities. However I feel they omitted the Attacking level. To me it should be like this:

IW Support = Positive

IF support = Attacking

IW attack = Attacking

IF attack = Very Attacking

I also think some ST roles need better separation in terms of individual mentality. Currently we get Balanced or Very Attacking for Support and Attack Duty. Positive and Attacking are missing. Not all roles on Support or Attack duty should have the same mentality. Some Support Duty Roles can be Balanced (False 9) while others could be Positive (CF Support). Some Attack Duty Roles could be Attacking (DLF Attack) while others Very Attacking (AF Attack).

In midfield roles we also are missing the Attacking individual mentality. We go from Positive for Support Duty to Very Attacking for Attack Duty. We could have something like this:

Very Attacking = CM Attack, Mez Attack

Attacking = AP Attack, RPM Support, Mez Support

Positive = AP Support, CM Support, BBM

Balanced = DLP Support, Carrilero, BWM Support

We can probably have the same for the Fullback/Wingback Roles as well:

Very Attacking = CWB Attack

Attacking = WB Attack, CWB Support, IWB Attack, FB Attack

Positive = WB Support, IWB Support, FB Support

Balanced = WB Defend, IWB Defend, FB Defend

 

What do you guys think?

The suggestions you make considering mentalities seems reasonable. Quite similar to what Ö-zil wants right? To set individually for each player/position.
 

Regarding to the presets you present they seem nice, maybe just having the possibility to set defenders on defend to be a bit more cautious than balanced? I agree with the IF being too attacking on support, but I think the reasoning is that it is de facto a forward, that happends to start wide and a bit deeper. My guess is that the VA makes sure it acts that way in the ME. The movement is more attacking and a bit more vertical than the IW anyway. The IW tends to run quite a lot laterally with the ball, the IF is much more "direct". Also in its positioning.

 

Im a bit torn about this subject, one part of me really likes to tinker with the mentalites. The other part feels that its maybe not that accurate of real football, its supposed to be a simulator. In the end i tend to like the individual mentalites though and would like to keep them.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Djuicer

[Powello]

On 02/06/2020 at 17:44, Enzo_Francescoli said:

 

Here's the final one. Fullbacks are told to sit narrow. I'm sure that with some more tweaking, it could perform even more admirably. Something I will not be testing further.

Challenge accepted  I'll give it a go with my United team that has been unbeaten in 4 years or something stupid like that

[Enzo_Francescoli]

3 hours ago, Powello said:

Challenge accepted  I'll give it a go with my United team that has been unbeaten in 4 years or something stupid like that

Say goodbye to your unbeaten streak 

Please report back how it went.

[Powello]

2 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Say goodbye to your unbeaten streak 

Please report back how it went.

Haha it's ok, I have doubled saved it under a different name to use solely as a tactic tester as I have an amazing side, so I don't lose the actual save. But yeah I am running a few different tests with different tweak. When I find the one that works I will post it up.

I am holidaying it to save time but I did watch the first game testing it with a couple of added tweaks of my own and they battered West Brom, not difficult with my team but some of the plays were great.

My initial thoughts are it is extremely good in attack but  in defence it's lacking support, which is obvious from the defensive set up. But one of the tweaks is I am using the very attacking mentality rather than balanced haha, in for a penny and all that. But I have got tactics with the three at the back set up like yours, working great before. I reckon I can manage it again haha

[Enzo_Francescoli]

1 hour ago, Powello said:

Haha it's ok, I have doubled saved it under a different name to use solely as a tactic tester as I have an amazing side, so I don't lose the actual save. But yeah I am running a few different tests with different tweak. When I find the one that works I will post it up.

I am holidaying it to save time but I did watch the first game testing it with a couple of added tweaks of my own and they battered West Brom, not difficult with my team but some of the plays were great.

My initial thoughts are it is extremely good in attack but  in defence it's lacking support, which is obvious from the defensive set up. But one of the tweaks is I am using the very attacking mentality rather than balanced haha, in for a penny and all that. But I have got tactics with the three at the back set up like yours, working great before. I reckon I can manage it again haha

Go with it, but changing the mentality will destroy the sole "purpose" of the "tactic" (and I mean both purpose and tactic in the loosest sense of the word). Which is to have every single player on an attacking mentality, something that's apparently not possible in the game any other way. Unless you go strikerless or defenderless, or both, that is. Which gives me wild ideas by the way, but I'm not going to hijack this excellent thread any more.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Enzo_Francescoli

[Powello]

1 minute ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Go with it, but changing the mentality will destroy the sole "purpose" of the "tactic" (and I mean both purpose and tactic in the loosest sense of the word). Which is to have every single player on an attacking mentality, something that's apparently not possible in the game any other way. Unless you go strikerless or defenderless, that is. Which gives me wild ideas by the way, but I'm not going to hijack this excellent thread any more.

Every player is on very attacking mentality.

And you should start a new thread on this as it would make a good conversation

[Enzo_Francescoli]

32 minutes ago, Powello said:

Every player is on very attacking mentality.

And you should start a new thread on this as it would make a good conversation

Well, be careful what you wish for. I got my latest masterpiece ready, testing it right now. Turns out, there is another way to have all attacking mentalities..

[Powello]

3 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Well, be careful what you wish for. I got my latest masterpiece ready, testing it right now. Turns out, there is another way to have all attacking mentalities..

I am actually in the process of developing a crazy tactic, you have sparked some creativity in me hahaha

[gpassosbh]

On 06/06/2020 at 17:39, nabildx said:

so how are these tactics going for you?

 

I didnt tested yet, as I think I need to setup little more to make a bit more offensive.

Any suggestions?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Update in the Caixa Academy thread for those of you interested to follow along and see where this save goes 

 

 

[FMplaymaker300]

4 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Update in the Caixa Academy thread for those of you interested to follow along and see where this save goes 

 

 

This tactic reminds me of Liverpool this season , the front 3 get really narrow allowing Trent and Robbo to bomb forward. How would you replicate this in fm20?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

5 hours ago, FMplaymaker300 said:

This tactic reminds me of Liverpool this season , the front 3 get really narrow allowing Trent and Robbo to bomb forward. How would you replicate this in fm20?

They were actually the inspiration for the front 3 

The GIFs above are pretty much the same system as the original post with the wide Inside Forwards and Wingbacks are on attack duty as I wanted to create as much overlap as possible.

It's really simple.

False 9 + Inside Forwards (Attack or Support) with Get Forward More and Play Narrower; and the right players to play it.

This was the system for the final.

The major difference is that Joao Felix scores a much higher percentage of Team Goals than Firmino, and wide forwards marginally less. I put that largely down to personnel rather than tactical as Joao Felix is a great goalscorer and Jota is extremely creative, as you can see from the goals above.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[JDhamm]

6 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

scores a much higher percentage of Team Goals than Firmino, and wide forwards marginally less

Might be a stupid question, but what exactly does Team Goals stat indicate? Does it mean, for example, a pass that contributed to a move that led to a goal? Also, what about Team Conceded?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, JDhamm said:

Might be a stupid question, but what exactly does Team Goals stat indicate? Does it mean, for example, a pass that contributed to a move that led to a goal? Also, what about Team Conceded?

It's the number of goals per 90 minutes the team scores with that particular player in the team.

Data/statistics in Football Manager are extremely low level, almost non-existant but I find this one quite useful every now and again. I'll use it to see:

1. How dependant the team is on a particular goalscorer; i.e. if one player is scoring the vast majority of my goals, or others contribute.
2. A general - and extremely loose - measure of how well the team plays with a particular player in the team.
   • This is mainly looking for outliers.
     • An example has often been Florentino Luis
     • He doesn't score or assist - or even make key passes - but the team is noticeably better with him in the side; on two separate occasions in this save I have noticed higher goals scored and lower goals conceded with him in the side which could have been missed if not watching games and using typical stats alone.
   • Remember to consider context, for example a rotation player who mainly plays cup games might have really high Team Goals because he is playing when you beat lower league sides 11-0 

[JDhamm]

30 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

It's the number of goals per 90 minutes the team scores with that particular player in the team.

Ah, makes sense.

Thanks!

[denen123]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I just want to say a big thank you for what you've done for this forum, over the years. Your threads have always given this simulator to what is many feel is complex. I know it is not a "retirement" thread, but I'm grateful for how much color you've added to the game. You're a Legend. 

 

Thank You.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

16 hours ago, denen123 said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I just want to say a big thank you for what you've done for this forum, over the years. Your threads have always given this simulator to what is many feel is complex. I know it is not a "retirement" thread, but I'm grateful for how much color you've added to the game. You're a Legend. 

 

Thank You.

You're welcome. Thanks for the kind words 

[Ivan787]

Il 10/6/2020 in 09:41 , Ö-zil to the Arsenal! ha scritto:

They were actually the inspiration for the front 3 

The GIFs above are pretty much the same system as the original post with the wide Inside Forwards and Wingbacks are on attack duty as I wanted to create as much overlap as possible.

It's really simple.

False 9 + Inside Forwards (Attack or Support) with Get Forward More and Play Narrower; and the right players to play it.

This was the system for the final.

The major difference is that Joao Felix scores a much higher percentage of Team Goals than Firmino, and wide forwards marginally less. I put that largely down to personnel rather than tactical as Joao Felix is a great goalscorer and Jota is extremely creative, as you can see from the goals above.

Hi, just a Quick question: are the Wide forward placed on inverted foot?

[skyline72]

56 minutes ago, Ivan787 said:

Hi, just a Quick question: are the Wide forward placed on inverted foot?

Iirc, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! train them to be two footed. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

20 hours ago, skyline72 said:

Iirc, @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! train them to be two footed. 

Yes, where possible. Jota is two-footed and - if you look at the GIFs above, you'll see the benefit of that clearly - and Embalo is left-footed.

[howard moon]

As others have said, this thread is outstanding. 

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! - what would you do if you had a more limited striker in your team. I'm playing FM17 and have Javier Hernandez (couldn't resist bringing him back to United on a free) and he's a classic poacher.

I want to move my team to playing like you have set up but it will take some transitioning. I'm currently playing control and structured (with 3 attacking roles). Would you accommodate a player like Hernandez by adjusting the set-up or would you just ask him to play the F9 role?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

17 minutes ago, howard moon said:

As others have said, this thread is outstanding. 

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! - what would you do if you had a more limited striker in your team. I'm playing FM17 and have Javier Hernandez (couldn't resist bringing him back to United on a free) and he's a classic poacher.

I want to move my team to playing like you have set up but it will take some transitioning. I'm currently playing control and structured (with 3 attacking roles). Would you accommodate a player like Hernandez by adjusting the set-up or would you just ask him to play the F9 role?

You've really got two options:

1. Play a - potentially lesser - player who better fits the system.
2. Adapt the system to counter him limitations.
   • I'd suggest a two striker system, that still gives you enough at least 3 in midfield.

That's your decision to make