Which player attributes take up zero ability points?

[npjones88]

So the recent conversation about upping determination got me thinking about the title question. 

I have a list of attributes in my head so would be interested if someone could correct where I'm wrong.

The following attributes (to the best of my knowledge) take up 0 CA points:

• Determination
• Bravery
• Aggression
• Flair
• Natural Fitness

Are these correct? Are there others? Interested to know the answer to this. 

 

[enigmatic]

IIRC Bravery does take up some. The others don't, and nor do numerous hidden attributes like Consistency, Dirtiness, Versatility and personality attributes. Most outfield attributes have 0 CA weight for goalkeepers and vice versa.

Worth pointing out these are all very useful attributes as well....

 

[npjones88]

What about Work Rate? Because this can be trained by focusing on stamina, my gut tells me this isn't a 'freebie'.

[npjones88]

You're probably right about bravery, that gets trained under aerial

 

I think it's the non trainable personality linked attributes that don't take up points.

 

Be good to draw up a definitive list.

[enigmatic]

Work Rate takes up ability points, but not as many as you might think.

[santy001]

I'd argue that even if you understand what is CA free and what isn't, it still doesn't do you too much good. The game has a very elaborate attribute weighting system that shifts depending on a couple of factors. 

Some things weigh so little for some players that a considerable increase in the attribute has no tangible impact on CA.

[npjones88]

 

1 minute ago, santy001 said:

Some things weigh so little for some players that a considerable increase in the attribute has no tangible impact on CA.

That's interesting, thanks for responding. You're referring to the regen freak Striker in 2030 with amazing attributes and somehow 16 tackling - that's likely taking up far less than even a couple of points finishing would, right?

There was a great thread on this a few years back that looked to calculate all the attribute weighting spread - is this stuff open knowledge now or would someone have to go through that again. 

I ask because I have seen a winger's Work Rate jump up 4 through repeated fining for poor performances and, whilst he trains well and has room to develop, I'm seeing his other attributes shifting minimally. I was wondering if my forcing up his WR through being an authoritarian A-Hole is being counterbalanced by slowing or reversing his development elsewhere, eating up his remaining PA points so he can't put any more into Composure for example.

[npjones88]

6 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Work Rate takes up ability points, but not as many as you might think.

I guess depends on the position - WR should be heavily weighted at DM but less so at GK or CB.

[enigmatic]

It's not very heavily weighted in any position, relative to how important most people think it is [and arguably to how important it is in the ME]

[enigmatic]

6 minutes ago, npjones88 said:

That's interesting, thanks for responding. You're referring to the regen freak Striker in 2030 with amazing attributes and somehow 16 tackling - that's likely taking up far less than even a couple of points finishing would, right?

There was a great thread on this a few years back that looked to calculate all the attribute weighting spread - is this stuff open knowledge now or would someone have to go through that again. 

I ask because I have seen a winger's Work Rate jump up 4 through repeated fining for poor performances and, whilst he trains well and has room to develop, I'm seeing his other attributes shifting minimally. I was wondering if my forcing up his WR through being an authoritarian A-Hole is being counterbalanced by slowing or reversing his development elsewhere, eating up his remaining PA points so he can't put any more into Composure for example.

Forcing up his work rate could shift other attributes down if he's not got room for improvement, but a lot of the time it's shifting them down by an imperceptible 0.1 attribute point, and I'd nearly always prefer to have a full extra point of Work Rate,

The attribute weighting spread will have changed since last time someone did the thread, though the general points will likely still be the same [Pace/Acceleration, Decisions and Weaker Foot massively highly weighted for all outfield players, Work Rate, Teamwork and Set Pieces low for all of them, a lot of common sense like Tackling/Marking mattering more for defenders and Finishing for forwards, and some quirks like Influence being much more important for central defenders and extra positions sometimes massively shifting CA]. It's also weighted between positions so as Santy says not dead straightforward to calculate for a typical player who's Natural in two positions and Accomplished in a third.

[santy001]

The weighting system hasn't been worked out properly for years, or at least if someone has they've not shared it. I remember some of the previous threads, and in truth they're pretty far away from the actual weighting system used.

Work Rate is itself a bit of a kiss/curse attribute. On the right player its going to work brilliantly, on the wrong player its going to diminish his effectiveness trying to do too much (and not just in a running sense). You'd struggle to notice the downsides and may find that overall it benefits more than it hinders but its not just a case of more is always better. A player going above and beyond, trying to get himself involved and always available if he's a really poor passer is going to give the ball away a lot. Another player might get physically bullied off the ball really easily and so on. 

Personally my perfect forward if I'm going with someone who needs to be nothing more than in the box would be high anticipation, high off the ball, high decisions, high composure, low teamwork and low work rate. Don't over exert, don't get too involved, just be there and ready to score. 

[npjones88]

19 hours ago, santy001 said:

A player going above and beyond, trying to get himself involved and always available if he's a really poor passer is going to give the ball away a lot.

Jon Walters? Always working so hard. Always available and always on the ball but not necessarily the player you want on the ball!

19 hours ago, santy001 said:

Don't over exert, don't get too involved, just be there and ready to score  ping one in the top corner. (from 35 yards)

Charlie Adam, is that you?