Inside forwards with stronger foot on the same side they play.

[Incubus1989]

Morning all, 

Hope everyone's well. Just a quick question really. Has anyone tried using an inside forward with the stronger foot being the same as the side he's playing on (i.e. right footed playing on right hand side) and if so what did you see? 

 

This isn't for a specific tactic or anything, just curious and don't have time to test. Thanks in advance!

[Djuicer]

I think its more depening on PPMs what the IF does than which ever foot they prefer. However in theory if they do not have any PPMs the left footed on left should maybe cross a tad more than if a right footed player plays there. Alltogether I go more for attributes and PPMs than footedness. 

 

This can also be style influenced/dependent ofc.

[Incubus1989]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I figured the PPMs and tactics would play a big role in it. My thought had been they would cut inside, get in to the area and maybe perform more cut backs for a deep running midfielder or striker. But just don't have the time to test it today.

 

There's a load of regens in a current save who my scouts so play best as inside forwards but have their strongest foot as the side they play on. So was wondering if anybody has used it before 

[OJ]

1 hour ago, Incubus1989 said:

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I figured the PPMs and tactics would play a big role in it. My thought had been they would cut inside, get in to the area and maybe perform more cut backs for a deep running midfielder or striker. But just don't have the time to test it today.

 

There's a load of regens in a current save who my scouts so play best as inside forwards but have their strongest foot as the side they play on. So was wondering if anybody has used it before 

Your assumption is correct. I play my wide forwards mainly with their strong foot on the outside to encourage this, and by the way the mix of PPMs doesn't really matter either too much.

Why actually, if you want to play passing moves and create beautiful plays, I would encourage this, because when they have their strong foot on the outside in many cases it will allow them to have a good angle for a pass and to take it sooner, than if they had strong foot on the inside. So it can make a difference to your passing game.

Also, it doesn't take anything away from their finishing efficiency, near post finishes are just as good if not better than far post (a typical IF making a run into the box, coming in from wide and taking an angled shot from within the box), and lets say if they have "cuts inside from wing" PPM, if they're wide deep close to the goal line, they can still even with their strong foot cut in and come for a near post finish, there are plenty of angles for them to finish.

Edited May 17, 2020 by OJ

[Incubus1989]

10 minutes ago, OJ said:

Your assumption is correct. I play my wide forwards mainly with their strong foot on the outside to encourage this, and by the way the mix of PPMs doesn't really matter either too much.

Why actually, if you want to play passing moves and create beautiful plays, I would encourage this, because when they have their strong foot on the outside in many cases it will allow them to have a good angle for a pass and to take it sooner, than if they had strong foot on the inside. So it can make a difference to your passing game.

Also, it doesn't take anything away from their finishing efficiency, near post finishes are just as good if not better than far post (a typical IF making a run into the box, coming in from wide and taking an angled shot from within the box), and lets say if they have "cuts inside from wing" PPM, if they're wide deep close to the goal line, they can still even with their strong foot cut in and come for a near post finish, there are plenty of angles for them to finish.

Awesome! Thanks so much for the reply. I thought that would be it, very surprised the PPMs don't play a big role though. Going to have some fun in the transfer market and seeing how this will fit in to my tactic redesign!

[OJ]

The PPMs will of course alter their momevement and/or some decision making, but what I meant with it doesn't really matter is that I haven't had any PPMs that would be a hindrance when playing this way. And I have esecially my attackers with tons of attacking PPMs.

[Incubus1989]

Ah fair enough, thanks for the heads up. All the players I've looked at for it have no PPMs or at least ones I feel will work fine with it. Definitely keep an eye on that though.

[OJ]

And actually let me be even more specific: Don't think about the footedness of the player when deciding on a PPM, only think of a) is that a good PPM to have in the role and position my guy will play b) does my guy have the skills for the PPM.

If the answer to both is yes, then whether he has the strong foot on the inside our outside is irrelevant.

[Incubus1989]

Very good advice, thanks!

[SixPointer]

I used a right footed inside forward attack on the right in my first season at Banik Ostrava. I overload the left side of the pitch then would find him with a switch through/ball and he would run on and score. He finished top goal scorer that year. 

[Incubus1989]

I've literally started doing the exact same thing and it works amazingly, can't believe I haven't tried it before. Pavon does a similar thing being a winger with cuts inside from both flanks but this has been way more potent.

[danbanbury]

I've just started trying this out with one of my players after some advice from @Experienced Defender. Only had two games with it so far and that player was suspended for the second game (good start) 😂. He also has the PPM cuts inside from left wing. The idea is that he will have an option to cross or pass and finish off chances. It'll be good to see how other people get on with this too. It's too early for me to comment really. 

[Incubus1989]

What I've seen so far is the inside forward gets to the byline but closer to the goal (almost six yard box) and cuts it back to a striker on midfielder running from deep. Either that or works himself in to a great position to score a placed shot so keep trying it dude! 

[OJ]

29 minutes ago, Incubus1989 said:

What I've seen so far is the inside forward gets to the byline but closer to the goal (almost six yard box) and cuts it back to a striker on midfielder running from deep. Either that or works himself in to a great position to score a placed shot so keep trying it dude! 

Glad you're having success with it! And yep, exactly, that kind of behaviour is exactly why strong foot on the outside can be so deadly.

[CaptCanuck]

Good stuff in this thread :-)

My L (IF) and R (IW) starters were both opposite footers, but because I like keeping my starting Mez/AP on the pitch, I'd move him to one of those slots when I started making subs and having a right-footer on the right (as an IF or W) definitely helped out in transition. Either as a:

• runner with the ball to shoot or pass
• runner without to latch onto crosses or short passes and shoot
• with the ball wide to cross or layoff to a BBM or cross opposite side

I can see with possession-based passing, working it into the box, etc... staying opposite foot/same-side foot less of a thing, but moving quickly with the ball and not having to open up the body to shoot or pass with your strong foot, just makes sense.

This coming season I am going to start him as my IF on his strong foot and see how it goes!

[OJ]

32 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

Good stuff in this thread :-)

My L (IF) and R (IW) starters were both opposite footers, but because I like keeping my starting Mez/AP on the pitch, I'd move him to one of those slots when I started making subs and having a right-footer on the right (as an IF or W) definitely helped out in transition. Either as a:

• runner with the ball to shoot or pass
• runner without to latch onto crosses or short passes and shoot
• with the ball wide to cross or layoff to a BBM or cross opposite side

I can see with possession-based passing, working it into the box, etc... staying opposite foot/same-side foot less of a thing, but moving quickly with the ball and not having to open up the body to shoot or pass with your strong foot, just makes sense.

This coming season I am going to start him as my IF on his strong foot and see how it goes!

That last past about moving the ball quickly by having your passing/crossing/shooting lane open already without having to adjust body position is also one of the key parts, and actually if you play a possession heavy slow-build up game it can give you a crucial edge in breaking down deep defensive blocks.

I cover it in detail and where my inspiration/lesson for it comes from in my thread about my tactic and how/with what logic I built it (ice hockey, where space and time is in even in a much shorter supply, so the quicker you can keep things moving the more space you'll open).

Edited May 22, 2020 by OJ

[CaptCanuck]

35 minutes ago, OJ said:

That last past about moving the ball quickly by having your passing/crossing/shooting lane open already without having to adjust body position is also one of the key parts, and actually if you play a possession heavy slow-build up game it can give you a crucial edge in breaking down deep defensive blocks.

I cover it in detail and where my inspiration/lesson for it comes from in my thread about my tactic and how/with what logic I built it (ice hockey, where space and time is in even in a much shorter supply, so the quicker you can keep things moving the more space you'll open).

I like that visual. Lot easier to see the curve of a stick and the openness of the player vs the curve of an instep.

Especially if you imagine working the puck around on a power play as a possession style in football... or a 5-on-3 power play as a faster paced tiki-taka :-)

Edited May 22, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[OJ]

15 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

I like that visual. Lot easier to see the curve of a stick and the openness of the player vs the curve of an instep.

Especially if you imagine working the puck around on a power play as a possession style in football... or a 5-on-3 power play as a faster paced tiki-taka :-)

From your nickname I assumed you'll know your hockey

And Power play exactly. Because that's the best comparable to football and with tiki taka trying to find the opening against a set deep defense trying to cover the middle as much as possible and leave you on the outskirts. So the logic and best ways how to open it are pretty much exactly the same in hockey and football. And because in hockey it's even harder I would say, IMO, hockey also offers slightly better solutions to when it comes to this kind of detailed stuff.

[OJ]

Lessons from hockey btw are the main reason why I really think we need a dedicated tries backheel passes often PPM! In hockey, one of the best passes to get max space are backhand passes behind. That's why also whenever someone uses them correctly in football the're so deadly (and why Özil who's one of the all time best playmakers uses them so often).

[CaptCanuck]

Ha! Ya can't skate for nothing, don't ski, don't curl, so Canada asked me leave :-)

I've been playing a few preseason matches with a right-footed, right-side IF and admittedly not played good competition yet, but it does seem promising. I'd like to see my BBM making more breaking runs for cutbacks, to see how the passing works out but that's not the IF's prob, but ya so far so good.

[Incubus1989]

I put my BBM on to get further forward (provided he has cover) and that's what really made mine click. Has worked well with a CM(A) and a Mezz(A) although the Mezzala is my least favourite role to use for this. 

[CaptCanuck]

17 hours ago, Incubus1989 said:

I put my BBM on to get further forward (provided he has cover) and that's what really made mine click. Has worked well with a CM(A) and a Mezz(A) although the Mezzala is my least favourite role to use for this. 

Ya for sure my BBM has "Gets into Opposition Area", but because he has 'prefers left' and my DLP has 'prefers right' I'd been playing him on the left, which is likely not the best thing to do if I'm trying to link up with my right IF :-)

[Incubus1989]

Ah, see this is why I may be a bad manager because I ignore things like that :P 

[karanhsingh]

This sounds interesting and maybe a bit like how Mbappe plays in real life on the right. In theory it should make play more unpredictable as the player may go on the outside or inside as opposed to a regular IF who will always look to cut in on the stronger foot. 

[Incubus1989]

That was the thought behind it and how it's playing out for me so far. If he's going to cross he tends to be a lot closer to goal so the crosses and cutbacks have been slightly more accurate than normal for me. Quite often he's just in a great position to get a through ball or switch from the other flank and bury it. Favourite thing I've tried for a while.

[Experienced Defender]

On 17/05/2020 at 12:37, Incubus1989 said:

Has anyone tried using an inside forward with the stronger foot being the same as the side he's playing on (i.e. right footed playing on right hand side) and if so what did you see?

I tend to do this when playing an IF on attack duty. Can be useful for cut-back passes/crosses for example. 

[Incubus1989]

Yeah, I assumed that's how it would work and wanted to get some confirmation before spending a huge transfer fee on a player. It works a treat, crosses/cut backs are way more accurate as the player tends to be closer to the centre after cutting in.

[HanziZoloman]

Great discussion! Will try it also

how about central Midfielders, any experience with having a left footer right sided and vice versa? 

min my tactic it’s like this:

DLP.  MCa

     DMd

the dlp dictating the game with balls to the flanks and the MCa playing one-two with the striker (DLF) trying to finish himself.

Edited May 28, 2020 by HanziZoloman

[CaptCanuck]

^Funnily enough my originally earmarked RS BBM/AM decided to go to Stoke for an extra 25k/week after agreeing terms with us first, so now instead I have a shiny new Brazilian BBM/Mez, who is left footed that I am going to try on the RS. I am closing in on the start of preseason matches, so we'll see soonish. He has get forward/get into box (I forgot which) so hopefully that helps.

My central midfield is the following and I hope to see some RS IF hook ups with that left footed wonder kid:

BWM  BBM/Mez
       DLP

Edited May 28, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[HanziZoloman]

13 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

instead I have a shiny new Brazilian BBM/Mez

Haha sounds happy. With my team it’s the same. Miraculously I‘ve managed to convince Liverpool’s Brazilian midfielder Allan (Left Footed) To join Heart of Midlothian on a free. Great! I am so happy. Now figuring out how to implement him successfully. He is a threat with shots and got tech, dribbling and flair to get into the box and score but is originally a DLP with weaknesses in defending. I want to place him as a MCa rs. But this role is set up to go straight to the box which isn‘t working too well with left foot, naturally a right foot would be better, which is why he is playing DLP now. He is fairly good with his right.

he could also be used as a MEZa maybe coming more from a sided position would give him shooting opportunities with his strong left foot but sounds complicated.

Edited May 29, 2020 by HanziZoloman

[CaptCanuck]

8 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Haha sounds happy. With my team it’s the same. Miraculously I‘ve managed to convince Liverpool’s Brazilian midfielder Allan (Left Footed) To join Heart of Midlothian on a free. Great! I am so happy. Now figuring out how to implement him successfully. He is a threat with shots and got tech, dribbling and flair to get into the box and score but is originally a DLP with weaknesses in defending. I want to place him as a MCa rs. But this role is set up to go straight to the box which isn‘t working too well with left foot, naturally a right foot would be better, which is why he is playing DLP now. He is fairly good with his right.

he could also be used as a MEZa maybe coming more from a sided position would give him shooting opportunities with his strong left foot but sounds complicated.

Ya that 's why I am hoping a go-getting and skilled BBM is the way to marry up with the IF and striker (DLF/CF). As you say a Mez is maybe a bit much, as he needs to float out to come back in? Depends what you have outside him, if you have a a single winger (whether it a F/MF/WB) then you would have the room to do that I guess? If he's got the ball mid-left he can roll it on to an overlapping W or play it nicely or whippy off that left foot to an am or striker?

Previous season I had the guy I am trying as IF as my Mez, with an IW-A on the right, which is why I residually mentioned that role. He was my 2nd highest rated performer and IIRC had 9gs | 11as from largely the Mez/AM role, which is of course why I want to move him to a new position this season, cause I'm smart that way :-S

[HanziZoloman]

1 hour ago, CaptCanuck said:

If he's got the ball mid-left he can roll it on to an overlapping W or play it nicely or whippy off that left foot to an am or striker?

That is left sided with left footed but what about left footed right sided?

[CaptCanuck]

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

That is left sided with left footed but what about left footed right sided?

Oh sorry was getting lost in all ll/lr/rr/rl :-)

You mentioned Alan being left footed and you putting him in the DLP slot for the moment, so I was going off that DLP - MCa you had in the previous post and thinking of the DLP spot, not the right-sided one.

In that instance I reckon we're in the same boat if we put our Brazilians out right: Mez could work well from outside into the middle, but then what about the relationship with however is on his right hip. BBM (some straightforward mid role) then that relationship with the outside right player looks promising, but does that mean it's trickier to then work it back inside? I hope it's not asking too much of them to open up their body a bit to slip in the striker... this weekend will be the chance to run through my preseason and see. I'll report back!

[HanziZoloman]

6 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

Oh sorry was getting lost in all ll/lr/rr/rl :-)

Yes man you got it! 
putting our Brazilians right sounds good I am looking forward for your tests. I‘ll get back on my manager seat on Monday morning. 
I have wingers/ IF and IW on both sides, very flexible and a DMd for cover.

I imagined a right side with MEZa and Ws and an IWBs from the back. As I am pressing up front it’s useful to have some players high on the pitch.

BTW which team are you managing?

[BELLYNUFC]

Thomas Lemar for me on my newcastle save is playing inverted winger down the left has 54 assists in 72 games thats him playing with his dominant foot on the outside 

[Incubus1989]

Lemar was literally one of the players I was thinking about when I asked this question. I have a regen playing on the right (obviously right footed) and he's got 25 goals and 19 assists in 42 games which I was thrilled with. PSG sniffing around him now though which is a little inconvenient.

[BELLYNUFC]

2 hours ago, Incubus1989 said:

Lemar was literally one of the players I was thinking about when I asked this question. I have a regen playing on the right (obviously right footed) and he's got 25 goals and 19 assists in 42 games which I was thrilled with. PSG sniffing around him now though which is a little inconvenient.

I lemar unreal in my side some good stats them like from you regen i have for certain noticed strongest foot on outside has them pulling ball back a lot more  

[Incubus1989]

Yeah definitely, if they push it too far to shoot they seem to cut it back instead of just smashing it at goal which is what I've been looking for for ages. Makes me want to start a new game with Atletico and try it out.

[CaptCanuck]

On 29/05/2020 at 13:07, HanziZoloman said:

Yes man you got it! 
putting our Brazilians right sounds good I am looking forward for your tests. I‘ll get back on my manager seat on Monday morning. 
I have wingers/ IF and IW on both sides, very flexible and a DMd for cover.

I imagined a right side with MEZa and Ws and an IWBs from the back. As I am pressing up front it’s useful to have some players high on the pitch.

BTW which team are you managing?

Managing Brighton @HanziZoloman :-) Only Maupay, Bissouma, and Dunk remain really, going into 4th season. Dunk is one match away from 350 and will retire a Seagull, the other two we'll see.

I played through my preseason this weekend and have to say, I'm not unhappy with the results. With an attacking counter attack and the players widely spaced it looks promising, there's no shuffling of feet before passing. With my narrower gegen, maybe they get a bit bunched up when trying to break things down. Will definitely start the season as we are currently. Annoying I had a really cool goal to upload from our last match against RB Leipzig, but I'm only getting white noise after the ogv export, even if I convert later to mp4.

Anyhoo, you can see from this 1st half pass analysis that the RS-LF BBM (12) was able to ping a bunch of forward passes out to my RS-RF IF (18). Leipzig were really quite passive in the middle, so Nenem had the ball and zipped it out to Reyna a bunch. Nenem has also been good at reversing flanks, even though he doesn't have that trait.

[HanziZoloman]

1 hour ago, CaptCanuck said:

Managing Brighton @HanziZoloman :-) Only Maupay, Bissouma, and Dunk remain really, going into 4th season. Dunk is one match away from 350 and will retire a Seagull, the other two we'll see.

I played through my preseason this weekend and have to say, I'm not unhappy with the results. With an attacking counter attack and the players widely spaced it looks promising, there's no shuffling of feet before passing. With my narrower gegen, maybe they get a bit bunched up when trying to break things down. Will definitely start the season as we are currently. Annoying I had a really cool goal to upload from our last match against RB Leipzig, but I'm only getting white noise after the ogv export, even if I convert later to mp4.

Anyhoo, you can see from this 1st half pass analysis that the RS-LF BBM (12) was able to ping a bunch of forward passes out to my RS-RF IF (18). Leipzig were really quite passive in the middle, so Nenem had the ball and zipped it out to Reyna a bunch. Nenem has also been good at reversing flanks, even though he doesn't have that trait.

Congrats! Sounds like a good save with the seagulls. Would like to see your complete tactic. I am not sure how it works with mine. Had some time too yesterday.

My hearts played a great pre season fighting through UEFA qualification but lost against Everton very closely.

Than capturing Top of premiership with victories against Rangers (0-4) and Celtic (1-2) with a late winner by my RS-RF IF. After that we lost against a lower table team (Kilmarnock?) something like that, and struggled. In my tactic I imagined my RS RF IF my main goal threat but that’s still a dream. I have similar players for the other side and imagined my LS LF IW as another goal threat, but also still a dream. Had to switch my DLF into PF and he is the main scorer with crossing by my RF RS WB (  ). Sometimes when it’s close my Brazilian takes a shot and scores. Not what I wanted even if it’s successful. Could be much better. Here is my tactic

Ws.  DLPs.  IFa

     MCa.  DLPs

           DMs

FBa. CBd CBd. FBa

             SKs

poss: Pass into Space / higher Tempo

Trans: Gegenpress/ Counter / quick Distribution 

OoP: DL much higher / LOE higher / prevent from short distribution 

DLF should lurk a defender out of line which my MC should use. My IF should convert crosses by my winger.

if you have any suggestions how to tweak or what to check on, feel free.

Edited June 2, 2020 by HanziZoloman

[CaptCanuck]

We've got similarilish setups role wise, bar dlp placement and the gegen v counter of course. Are you FBs overlapping at all?  That's been the big plus for me on the counter with Davies and then if the box gets packed, eventually Asta joins in and that's let Reyna/Nenem play some one-twos.

But ya I am nooooooo pro by a long ways. I started out the end of last season trying to mold an inspired by Wolves-esque formation/style and while it was OK, I didn't want to commit to a back 3 from a squad building POV, but I wanted to keep the idea of their front 3, the Neves, and Doherty roles and when I dropped the back 3, use the extra midfielder as a Dendoncker type.  And I stumbled on this thread due to not wanting two opposite-footers.

And so I've ended up with the following, with Nenem a more active Moutinho type. And I hope the 5 attacking players can contribute to good counter-attacking, with Tonali not needed to get engaged after kicking it off until the opposition is inside their 18 yd box and then he can ping it around from between the two half-circles when we are trying to break them down from close.

As was mentioned above (in the hockey analogy) I'd like to see some back and forths between Nenem and Reyna, which I got against Inter, but obviously how the opposition sets up is going to impact that. Are you seeing any reverses out to the left, for me that's been the 'best' part of the left-footed Nenem.

Edited June 3, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[HanziZoloman]

Nice one @CaptCanuck Now I understand a little better what your ideas are. It looks quite flexible and fluid - hope you still got the results. 
with my team it’s trickier and I have to tweak a little with that I take some inspiration of your tactic.

what about your BWM LF?

Edit: man! It works at least against the parked busses. My midfield triangle is now exactly like yours and my DLP is just an emergency solution. The players are much better linked with each other. On my right flank plays a RF Wa which works great and on my left plays a LF IWs with a fine LF WBa for nice overlaps. The midfield triangle now is the powerhouse I was hoping for. Sometimes I sub my RF IFa and he’s linked up far better into play and is much more a threat. Thanks man! 

Edited June 6, 2020 by HanziZoloman

[Nyron]

I haven't used IFs much on FM20 but on previous versions it worked well. On Attack they would make diagonal runs towards goal but still receive the ball on their stronger foot in the way that Sterling did when he played from the right for Man City under Pep. It was like playing with a very narrow winger who would drift between the width of the box and the 6 yard box.

[CaptCanuck]

On 06/06/2020 at 05:36, HanziZoloman said:

Nice one @CaptCanuck Now I understand a little better what your ideas are. It looks quite flexible and fluid - hope you still got the results. 
with my team it’s trickier and I have to tweak a little with that I take some inspiration of your tactic.

what about your BWM LF?

Edit: man! It works at least against the parked busses. My midfield triangle is now exactly like yours and my DLP is just an emergency solution. The players are much better linked with each other. On my right flank plays a RF Wa which works great and on my left plays a LF IWs with a fine LF WBa for nice overlaps. The midfield triangle now is the powerhouse I was hoping for. Sometimes I sub my RF IFa and he’s linked up far better into play and is much more a threat. Thanks man! 

Nice @HanziZoloman :-) And even if it only works for the bus parkers, that just means you get to have fun coming up with something for the other teams.

I am tempted to try Reyna as an Wa instead of an IFa (and then put Nenem as Mez for kicks to see what happens), but I've been retraining him as an IF and I want to get that sorted first. He's a good all-rounder and is 3rd in the Prem in chances created so far, so having that strong foot is enabling him to sling in passes without stopping. When I've rested him for cup matches, his replacements are both left-footed, so I get that stop and shift before they pass, which can get closed down.

In regards to the midfield 3 - Tonali (DLP) is my highest rated player and has two MOMs so far, but has only a single goal and no assists. He really does get things going and gets (back to a hockey reference, lol) second assists and helps move everything along, hence the high ratings. Sissoko (BWM) is there to kick people, head the ball, and lay it off to someone else and I have him drift left when we're in possession to protect against counters with Davies bombing down the left. Nenem has high ratings and chances created too and is totally playing the high energy B2B role, but I need to sort out my striker, as I think he is stopping him from getting into the box like I'd like.

[HanziZoloman]

Hey @CaptCanuck Reyna looks like versatile chap and I like your tactical ideas. Have you tried your striker as a PFs? He plays a little like DLF and F9 but doesn’t drop that deep and place more energy in disturbing the opposite defence but still holds the ball for other arriving later.

I had a good run with my hearts and beat Rangers and Celtic in the league but the suffered that teams outlook my tactic and adapted against it. I struggled and lost the top position. 
Searching for a solution I stumbled over a new Thread in this forum: „tactical gymnastics with Lyon“

Man you have to show up there and read it. It’s a must read. 
The guy was trying to adapt to the Opponents strengths and weaknesses and abandoned a No 1 tactic strategy. This is so much fun and challenging but also it delivers results and forces you to use your whole squad. I already tried it out with my hearts and it was great. You can use your players more flexible thinking of Reyna, sometimes IFs sometimes Wa.