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Will anyone be buying FM21?


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12 hours ago, Matt_Ray said:

In fact, there's a few things in FM19 that I miss - being able to propose new club philosophies, and the staff vacancies info being on the contract offer screen so that you don't have to flick back to the main Staff page to remind yourself how many U23 and U18 Sports Scientists you need to hire.

You can actually see the vacancies on the contract offer screen. It took me awhile to notice them too because they were displayed differently on FM19. It's in the bottom left corner and you can hover over it to display what positions are vacant.

vacancies.thumb.jpg.f3b77ff14925c9190e1c8425456a2059.jpg

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I won't be purchasing FM21 initially. Will need to see huge improvements defensively with drastically increased, better and more modern defensive options, organisation, strategies and instructions before I'd ever consider buying the FM series again. It's gotten to the point where I can't play the game anymore and I need a break until these issues are rectified and brought into the 21st century of modern football. Unfortunately, current defensive options on FM20 still represent the disorganised mess of 1980's/1990's defending. It sadly bears no resemblance to defending in the year 2020.

Edited by Juego de Posicion
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At this moment in time, NO. 

FM20 has been the worst one so far for me since I started playing, no enjoyment and it's the least played version for me as I struggle to get into it due to it's many discussed issues re ME etc. I think I'll wait to see what happens with the ME before I decide.

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Of course I will. I have the hope to play the perfect FM before I pass away. And I also own every realease since FM2005 (FM Live included, bought boxed a couple of years ago just for the sake of collectionism. What a trusted customer I am!), so it would be a shame not to keep it going on.

To be honest, if I was a newcomer, I probably wouldn't buy it. I find FM20 very frustrating and not funny to play and the fact that I have to wait longer for FM21 is discouraging.

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I'm a 2 year cycle purchaser. FM20 was a revelation on FM18 and playing LLM style & full matches, it takes me three months to play one season anyway so my career saves tend to last 2 years. Surely the ME will be changed for 2022 :kriss:

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Had a look at my Steam library to see what versions I bought and which not. The earliest is FM12 (earlier was non-steam but I remember buying it almost every year, except for the years I lived in Peru for my social project) and I bought all versions except FM19. Somehow only from FM17 is still available on Steam so I checked hours played:

FM17 : +1000 h

FM18: 250h

FM20: 350h

I'm surprised to see I played FM20 more than FM18 but I reckon covid-19 lockdown has something to do with it. To be honest, I struggle most with the sluggishness of the game. It just moves sooo slow forward, I need to click so many time to get to the next matchday (even when setting to receive the least messages possible). Auto forward isn't an option either as you can then miss crucial messages (f.e. transfer request being automatically accepted!).  It just doesn't feel smooth. And transitioning to Touch doesn't help much because then you loose functionality you want to use (f.e. for developing youth etc)... I'm actually installing FM17 while typing this and might give that game another go. If I can find a data update for it as I prefer to be as close as possible to real life.

Will I buy FM21? I'm on the fence. If all covid-related consequences are in the game I will probably be tempted. But something has to be done on the smoothness/quickness imho (and I run it on a desktop with i5-4670K CPU @ 3.4Ghz, 2 AMD Radeon R9 290 video cards, SSD and 16Gb RAM so it shouldn't be a hardware issue?

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If they don't fix all the tactical mistakes that are in the game right now, I probably will skip another year for the sack of my sanity.

Pressing is all over the place, and I don't get it why they put gengenpressing in the game when you can't actually press like a real team. It is so easy to see lesser teams have 50-70% of possession because they just sit back and pass the ball freely, and the bigger team struggle to stop this because they simply can't press players correctly, they go all in on just one player and leave acres of space behind them, this doesn't ressemble nothing at all like RL football. Real teams have press patterns and plans to desestabilize other teams offensive transition and offensive phase, things that we don't have in this game.

Also this goes hand to hand with the attacking side of this game, a lot of the attacking in the game is just as bad as the defensive aspect of it. I watch matches on full and what I see is anything but football. You ask your players to play a nice possession football, playing the ball with patience and trying to find that space by rotating the ball, and suddenly one of your players decide to pass to a winger, but 7/10 times he tries, he send the ball away and you lose possession, 2 other possibilities he actually have the ball, but he dominates it wrong and the opposition grab it back, and just 1 time they actually get it right, so terrible to see this type of football. I don't know why, but wingers and fullbacks from both side find so difficult to actually find a way to go on 1v1 against FB, I had a game were my full back with great stats couldn't win a single dribble against a normal bundesliga FB, and my winger would always wait for someone to stop in front of him so he could try a cross, why he does that? Why he simply doesn't go for a cross and wait till he is marked? And if he is marked, why he don't do a back pass and maintain the possession and rotate them a little bit? This things makes the game almost unplayable if you are playing just for the tactical side of the game.

Don't get me wrong, FM 20 is the best, years ahead of all the other before him, players are now complaning for things that are a bit more realistic, we don't have the whole squad getting mad when your third choice keeper is asking for more game time so frequently, and all this out matches problems that we had back there, but the problem exactly inside of it, everything is roses and dreams, but when you step inside of the field, the game turns in a complete nightmare.

If FM 21 manage to work this problems out, and actually make it more enjoyable for all the players that love the tactical aspect of football, than I will definitely will be buying this year.

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Just now, redders1977 said:

"No way am I getting a season ticket next year, we were rubbish last year, we've been relegated, we can't score for toffee, we're awful to watch"

Come August, you're walking towards the ground, ticket in pocket

Also I need the realism, its almost worth buying it just for the data update and correct years etc

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After the 1000th goal scored/conceded on set piece, after the 2000th 1v1 missed and the 500th goal conceded at 90+5 with 3 mins of added time and after the 10000th player injured just 1 day before the game, I finally uninstalled it. I simply can't stand it anymore.

FM07, butta la pasta, I'm coming home.

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if there are new features that i like, i'll buy it again this year. or maybe sometime next year when it goes half off.

if it's just a bunch of UI updates touted as "new features" i'll skip it. i really hate when they do that -- when they move a specific part of the UI to another section and "enhance" it and claims it as a "new feature". no, it's not... you just simply moved it to another location and changed its color.

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On 17/05/2020 at 18:04, Steve8066 said:

nope, not a chance i will buy the next version or any other version, not without a complete re-write of the ME which we all know isnt gonna happen.

Same, only if the ME and graphics totally change from pixels to something like FIFA03-stylish I would buy it directly. Is really why a lot of friends don't continue cause of the ME. Wonder how many years it will take for them to change it.

Edited by WilltheWolf92
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On 17/05/2020 at 17:04, Steve8066 said:

nope, not a chance i will buy the next version or any other version, not without a complete re-write of the ME which we all know isnt gonna happen.

Sadly i dont think it will be re written even thou it needs a brand new ME as it has had too many changes and layers of code added over the years and is now a boring, infuriating mess, I couldn't play this years game due to the ME being so repetive, inconsistent and frustrating, for the first time in 15 years i couldn't play my favourite game.

Edited by dcaine100
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1 hour ago, Artin said:

this is the problem when a game has no competition. SI can just slack off because what else are we going to play? there's no alternative to FM...

Always find this a bit of a strange position to take. I don't think there's ever been a time in human existence where home entertainment has been so plentiful. We're living in an age where Zelda, Skyrim, GTA are incredible, Netflix and Amazon can pretty much bring any show/film into your home and christ, porn is everywhere online.

To say there's no competition for your time strikes me as a bit of a stretch.  

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Fm 20 uninstalled, totally un-enjoyable, infuriating, boring mess of a game. Good riddence.

 

Am I buying Fm 21? No, this was my first time playing an FM in 5 years and it was hardly a good example of what's to come for the game in the future, it's just basically been software bloat now for the last decade.

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On 20/08/2020 at 17:06, bruntonpasty said:

I'm a 2 year cycle purchaser. FM20 was a revelation on FM18 and playing LLM style & full matches, it takes me three months to play one season anyway so my career saves tend to last 2 years. Surely the ME will be changed for 2022 :kriss:

Finally, someone else who takes that long to go through a season :D 

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On 21/08/2020 at 16:39, Huey Lewis said:

Always find this a bit of a strange position to take. I don't think there's ever been a time in human existence where home entertainment has been so plentiful. We're living in an age where Zelda, Skyrim, GTA are incredible, Netflix and Amazon can pretty much bring any show/film into your home and christ, porn is everywhere online.

To say there's no competition for your time strikes me as a bit of a stretch.  

You missed the point completely.

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I don't think I will, tbh. I'm a fairly new fan, I joined the FM train at FM15, and while I did play the 15 edition quite a bit I have never really gotten into the later installments. I think I've logged around 50 hours with FM20. 

It's just too overwhelming for me. It takes up too much time. Besides I can never get my head around those tactic instructions. 

To each his own, this franchise is not for me. Now, CM 01 / 02 on the other hand ... :) 

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I don’t think so sadly. I only brought 20 in lockdown upgraded from the fantastic 17. 
 

The me is so broken,  If my winger refuses to cross to the open goal striker one more time I’m going to have to uninstall it. 
 

Run, Run ... run some more look up and shoot anyway. 

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On 22/08/2020 at 16:15, Vali184 said:

You missed the point completely.

If the point they were trying to make was something like "I'm so desperate to play a football management game I'd literally play a game i hate just because it's the only one" I don't really buy it. As said there's loads of entertainment out there for your time. Even for management sims there's nothing stopping anyone playing older CM's or Premier Managers or even Fifa Manager instead. Or just go out and manage a bloody kids team :D 

It's entirely on the customer to decide if they want to buy and play something. If you don't think a release of a game is worth buying then nobody forces you to buy it. If SI aren't taking enough strides forward for you to justify buying the game that's on you and is your decision. If you want competition go buy a rival management game and support that instead, here's one - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1078730/Soccer_Manager_2020/ or maybe this one - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1271980/Premier_Manager_10/

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I also hope they finally work for a complete overhaul/rework of the skin because honestly, I just compared FM10 and FM20. 10 years later (!!!) and the skin/UI is basically the same. I understand it's not prioritary but it looks like playing the same game forever.

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1 hour ago, Huey Lewis said:

If the point they were trying to make was something like "I'm so desperate to play a football management game I'd literally play a game i hate just because it's the only one" I don't really buy it. As said there's loads of entertainment out there for your time. Even for management sims there's nothing stopping anyone playing older CM's or Premier Managers or even Fifa Manager instead. Or just go out and manage a bloody kids team :D 

It's entirely on the customer to decide if they want to buy and play something. If you don't think a release of a game is worth buying then nobody forces you to buy it. If SI aren't taking enough strides forward for you to justify buying the game that's on you and is your decision. If you want competition go buy a rival management game and support that instead, here's one - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1078730/Soccer_Manager_2020/ or maybe this one - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1271980/Premier_Manager_10/

Neither in the same league as FM i'm afraid

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Ill buy it, ive had them all since FM was a thing, as well as a few versions of Champ Man before it. Ive really enjoyed FM20, fair enough I dont take it as seriously as some of the tactical experts on here but I just look at it as a game and after working throughout the lockdown in an office taking phone calls all day its a few hours relaxation for me :)

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Nah, sadly. For me the most important thing is, is what SI is going to do. They have heard now alot of critics about the ME. Are they going to show they care about them and put alot of effort to balance the ME in 2021 or are they going to show they dont care and  only are focused on other content of the game that earns them more money, like the mobile one. Im really curious about it. So im going to see the demo, beta out and then see what the reviews will be about the full game. It is what it is. The ME in FM 20 really sucked the enjoyment out for me and i just could not play further in the way i like to play the game. 

Edited by f.zaarour
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I think it is disgusting the way people feel they can come on and bash this game incessantly, often with little in terms of constructive feedback. More often than not it's someone just saying "the ME is bad this year". Offer some feedback. Quote examples.

If you really believe the ME is bad then fair enough. At least have the decency to say why. How can it it be improved? How many people provide examples?

How many people understand what goes in to making the ME work? How it can't just be "fixed" with a flick of a switch.

Is FM perfect? No. It is unlikely it ever will. I've been playing my save for near 500 hours though, and I have loved every minute. I enjoy watching the matches. They're not a perfect representation of a real game of football, and sometimes annoying things do happen. The number of times a player will receive the ball with his head and give it away rather than try to bring the ball down and make something happen. The number of times players will have a perfect cross opportunity but take another touch and kick the ball right at the defender.

The game could do with a few more animations to represent hustle in football. Loki Doki said that recently and I agreed with him entirely.

I just honestly do not see the hatred for the ME that so many on here seem to have. I can't help but feel they expect perfection and probably don't understand, or don't want to understand, how the game works, or how it is not a simple thing to just change something.

Lastly. How many of the people that cry blue murder, say this is the worst ME engine ever, and that they won't touch FM21 will preorder the day they can and will play through beta and beyond? My guess is a high percentage.

Edited by anagain
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7 minutes ago, jc1 said:

 

Have you not read the feedback thread, hundreds of people giving multiple examples of bugs and problems and most are saying the same thing.

Strikers still missing far too many 1v1, wingers/wingbacks/IF's all head for the byeline and shoot at ridiculous angles instead of cutting it back, far too many goals from corners/crosses and far too many from strikes from 25 yd +, players unable to control the ball without dribbling it over the line for a through in/byeline, small 5'6" midfileders outjumping 6'2" defenders, players just randomly standing in a daze while the game goes on around them, defenders unaware the ball has gone over their head until it's too late.

 

I watch comprehensive highlights and I would honestly say the percentage of times some of those examples happen is very low. I don't believe I have seen wingers cut inside and shoot from ridiculous angles, and I don't see ridiculous numbers of 1v1s missed. Yes, players struggle to control the ball on the lines sometimes, players will take shots from stupid distances (but consider that might be your players or your tactics too), and other issues such as I mentioned in my post. Jumping can not simply be put down to an issue. A 5'6" player could feasibly outjump a 6'2" player.

As I said in my post, if you'd read it properly, I'm not doubting that people have seen these things. I'm also not including everyone in my thoughts. I don't think it is the majority that are actively trying to help SI to identify issues. People are reporting issues, but there are many who just grumble and never think to provide examples.

There's also the question of "how easy a fix are these issues"? They can't just press a button and make it instantly better. I suspect that very often these issues can't be solved without extensive work on the match engine, work that might not be seen until the next version of FM. Accusing SI of not fixing problems, because they haven't fixed them immediately, is not helping anyone. Understanding and patience is needed.

I've said this before. I say it often in these sorts of threads. There was a member of the SI team that posted on these forums once about the ME. They told of how big a program it is, how complex it is and how it takes a very experienced programmer to do anything with it. Turn down the chances of a winger cutting inside and shooting from poor angles and you create another issue. I couldn;t say what becuse I'm not an SI coder. Perhaps instead of shooting they just run with the ball in to dead ends and lose possession. Then people complain that wingers aren't shooting. Because they will.

All I'm suggesting is that people use reasoning when they contribute. I am 100% sure that SI work bloody hard on this game. They make every effort to make it the best possible game they can. Only they know for sure the realisms of working with their match engine. Trust them to be doing everything they can to make the engine perfect and to produce the most realistic simulation of real football that they can. To go into a game like this, with the level of detail on hand, expecting everything to be as perfect as can be is just crazy. To make one thing work then SI will be juggling values for countless parameters.

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For the first time since 93, I'll probably give it a miss - or reinstall an older version. I've enjoyed parts of 20 (and currently having a great long term save) - but I'm tired of the ME. VAR is very predicable as is much of the match play.  I'm tired of wingers getting into great positions, delaying their cross and hitting it straight at the defenders legs. I'm bored of seeing the same type of goals. However, for me, the worst is the amount of times I'm seeing League two midfielders slalom through the opposition like they're Maradona in 86. I can only assume that all the 1v1 misses and lack of cutbacks is to keep the match scores low - because I'm seeing loads of them.

It's not just the ME though. Kit clashes still haven't been addressed and I'm sick of answering of the same media questions we've been asked in the last few versions. Newgen faces are worse than previous versions as are the stadia. The list goes on and on. 

I'm not after perfection, but if anyone from Si is listening - maybe take a couple of steps back to see what worked well in previous versions. Most of us would be happy with that.

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21 ore fa, anagain ha scritto:

I think it is disgusting the way people feel they can come on and bash this game incessantly

"Disgusting"?

I don't know, I think a lot of things in the world are "disgusting", and I don't even want to mention one of them.

But finding "disgusting" some post in a forum (most of them in the "feedback" forum) about a software you haven't created or contributed to create either... I think you're taking it too personally and I can't see why.

 

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28 minutes ago, Federico said:

"Disgusting"?

I don't know, I think a lot of things in the world are "disgusting", and I don't even want to mention one of them.

But finding "disgusting" some post in a forum (most of them in the "feedback" forum) about a software you haven't created or contributed to create either... I think you're taking it too personally and I can't see why.

 

What I find disgusting is the way some might suggest the developers don't care to fix the game, as is suggested often.

As I have said, and as people seem to be ignoring, I have no issue with people who feel something is a problem and want to bring it up with discussion. But far too many don't stop there. They will criticise the members of the devlopment team as if this is some sort of personal crusade against their enjoyment. As if they are unwilling to fix the issues. The op post in this very thread is an example of that. Of course SI don't want the game to be poor. I personally don't see that it is. As I said, there are issues, but they haven't affected my enjoyment. A thread asking whether people will buy FM21 is reasonable. When it descends in to "FM20 was never good enough" or "the Devs have never attempted to fix problems", as has been seen, that is too far. I play a lot of games and FM is far beyond the state of many games. Fm goes a lot further into trying to recreate something incredibly complex than many games too. 

There's also this stigma that seems to be thrown at anyone who might think to throw some support the way of SI. As if that is a thing to be shamed. How many people have jumped to round on me for having the audacity to defend the game? To stand up and suggest people be constructive in their criticism? You'd think I had defended Hitler.

People need to learn patience and to enjoy things easier. What SI put into this game is phenomenal. No other game comes close to the scope of FM. The hours of enjoyment for a mere £30 are almost unrivalled. 500 hours I have put in to this game and for £30. That is 6p per hour. 

I just think people need to be a little less judgmental.

Of course, I could add my own thoughts on FM21. I'm concerned, what with Covid19, that the team will be hard pressed to create a title that does the series justice. I look at the community and all I can see is FM21 amounting to more bashing from folks who can't, or don't wish to understand the situation. I would be happy to pay for a title that has less features but an updated database, but how many will round on SI for that? I recall the recent launch of Fall Guys, a game made with real passion, and how many roudned on the development team of that title for it being a measily £15. How the abuse poured out over a few week one issues with servers. People are not patient anymore. Yes, I'm old, but I feel that attitudes have changed too much.

Edited by anagain
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I will be 100% be buying fm21, it’s the only game I play and have loved fm20. 

Yes fm20 has its flaw in the ME, and they could tweak and improves some parts, but I don’t get the mess that people have been calling it. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed fm20, and my 2 main saves that I’ve done this year have been the most enjoyable and best saves I’ve done since probably fm12.

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7 minutes ago, sedge11 said:

I will be 100% be buying fm21, it’s the only game I play and have loved fm20. 

Yes fm20 has its flaw in the ME, and they could tweak and improves some parts, but I don’t get the mess that people have been calling it. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed fm20, and my 2 main saves that I’ve done this year have been the most enjoyable and best saves I’ve done since probably fm12.

That is the attitude that people need. There might be flaws with the ME but none of them are game breaking.

The "whole" experience with FM20 is the best it has been, in my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, anagain said:

That is the attitude that people need. There might be flaws with the ME but none of them are game breaking.

The "whole" experience with FM20 is the best it has been, in my opinion. 

This is the thing, it's the best "in your opinion" which you are perfectly entitled to. Others have a different opinion, and it's not up to you to state what attitude other people need.

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16 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

This is the thing, it's the best "in your opinion" which you are perfectly entitled to. Others have a different opinion, and it's not up to you to state what attitude other people need.

And it's not right for people to chuck abuse the way of passionate and hardworking developers...but they do. Frequently.

Also, I'm not trying to tell you you can't have dislikes about the game, or things within the ME that you feel are wrong. I have those and I feel it is important for people to post feedback on these issues. Whilst I feel the game is good, I never said it can't be perfected. Constructive feedback, with examples, is hugely important to any game. What I don't like to see, and what is never needed, is people that direct hate at the developers of the game. The original post in this thread included stuff that I don't think is needed. It may have been tame in comparison with some threads, but I noticed that it received a moderator comment.

You need to get over this crusade that anyone who might feel the game is good has some need to battle you. No one is telling you not to have problems. You are welcome to feel how you feel, just don't tell me I shouldn't.

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Like others here I’ve been playing for decades (my first game was Italia manager). Id like to say I’ll hold this year but will see closer to the time. It’s not the price but the time investment and gaps. 
I will say I can’t wait to try FIFA 21s new career mode. Looks like they copied part of FM series with match graphics (imitation is greatest form of flattery). Just easier to pick up for an hour here or there with work schedule. 

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To be honest, I'll try it. The silence from the SI about the bugs maybe a signal that they gonna fix this (poor setpieces, 1v1, ridiculous defend, last minute goals and others aspect which I may forgotten). FM 2020 is almost unplayable, for sure the worst FM ever. Anyway, the ideia of the game still great and I can't believe that SI will throw the game's reputation on trash.
It's annoys me people saying "the problem is in your tactic" or "you are stupid, this game is great and you don't know how to play it"

Definily I gonna make one last shot. But if FM2021 have 30% of this ME, I'll never try even the demo in further editions.

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