Sacked when 1st in the league with 10 games to go!

[lukew0612]

So in my first season in charge of Sunderland I had 10 games left and was 1st in the league, meeting all objectives and had plenty of money to spend. Change of ownership comes in and sacks me but not only that I’m trying to apply for other manager jobs and no one above the national league will take me? I literally applied for over 15 jobs in league 1 and the championship.

 

This game is supposed to be realistic I’m so bitterly disappointed as i was loving how my career was going. Please fix this as I don’t want to start a new career all over again as I put hours into the old one. So poor, especially as it’s the 2020 version.

[Norfair]

I agree that sounds like proper bs. Even if it's something that could perhaps realistically happen remotely irl, it's one of those things that simply adds nothing positive to the gameplay experience, plus it seems to happen too often. And the fact that no one hired you even when you were successful at Sunderland just isn't right. I've hated this feature from day one.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Norfair

[lex311085]

what was your starting reputation/badges?

[lukew0612]

2 hours ago, lex311085 said:

what was your starting reputation/badges?

Pro license but semi pro playing experience - i only did semi pro playing experience as it makes it more of a challenge but the game should be advanced enough not to just base your future jobs off of that. So frustrating.

Edited April 23, 2020 by lukew0612

[lukew0612]

2 hours ago, Norfair said:

I agree that sounds like proper bs. Even if it's something that could perhaps realistically happen remotely irl, it's one of those things that simply adds nothing positive to the gameplay experience, plus it seems to happen too often. And the fact that no one hired you even when you were successful at Sunderland just isn't right. I've hated this feature from day one.

Yeah mate super frustrating, the game should be advanced enough to recognise when you are doing well, the press reports after I was sacked was bs too, talking about poor results being the reason I was sacked ffs😂

[A_Sober_Paddy]

Well I'm currently managing Canada in a career game, have them ranked inside the top 30 and just qualified for the 2nd round of the 2026 world cup. Finished unbeaten in the 2022 world cup.

I recently applied for jobs in Scotland league 2 and got zero interviews...

[zyfon5]

4 hours ago, lukew0612 said:

Pro license but semi pro playing experience - i only did semi pro playing experience as it makes it more of a challenge but the game should be advanced enough not to just base your future jobs off of that. So frustrating.

But u are still in your first season of manager right? So ur reputation is still not up there yet. 

[Snorks]

Yeah, it sounds like a reputation thing working against you here. The new owners have brought in a higher profile manager, you haven;t had time to build a strong enough rep to get one for the bigger jobs yet.

[LetsNotScoreGoals]

Build a comeback story, manage a **** team and then climb up to pummel the crap out of Sunderland :P

[dolph11]

People are trying to legitimise this sacking? Unbelievable. It's a game. His reputation at this point shouldn't be a factor. Of course, we want realism but only to a degree. If you start with a club and want to build a career with them getting the sack like that totally negates the point of playing the game. 

[yolixeya]

34 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

People are trying to legitimise this sacking? Unbelievable. It's a game. His reputation at this point shouldn't be a factor. Of course, we want realism but only to a degree. If you start with a club and want to build a career with them getting the sack like that totally negates the point of playing the game. 

Don't speak for the rest of us. I want realism even more then how it is currently. And I like that when the new ownership comes sometimes they don't judge you by how well you did but they just decide wheter to keep you or not. Sure it sucks when you get sacked when you built something but it's more immersive.

[dolph11]

9 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Don't speak for the rest of us. I want realism even more then how it is currently. And I like that when the new ownership comes sometimes they don't judge you by how well you did but they just decide wheter to keep you or not. Sure it sucks when you get sacked when you built something but it's more immersive.

I agree, but how realistic is it when you are top of the league with ten games to play? Again, if implemented properly it can be a good addition. However, this instance is not evidence of good implementation. Can it happen in real life? Of course, anything can. Is it likely to happen more than once in a blue moon? No.

[yolixeya]

1 minute ago, dolph11 said:

I agree, but how realistic is it when you are top of the league with ten games to play? Again, if implemented properly it can be a good addition. However, this instance is not evidence of good implementation. Can it happen in real life? Of course, anything can. Is it likely to happen more than once in a blue moon? No.

Radomir Antic who recently died was sacked when he was first with Real Madrid because they didn't play beautiful  football apparently, so weird things like that can happen. Here in this case you are getting new chairman who has his vision of the future of the club and you are not part of it. To me it sounds realistic and it is rare, it's not like it happens all the time. In years playing I had that happen to me just once.

[zyfon5]

53 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

People are trying to legitimise this sacking? Unbelievable. It's a game. His reputation at this point shouldn't be a factor. Of course, we want realism but only to a degree. If you start with a club and want to build a career with them getting the sack like that totally negates the point of playing the game. 

how is his sacking not reasonable? u do realize football manager is a football simulation game right? sure he is top of the league with 10 games left but it doesnt mean that he cant lose the next ten games and drop places. the reputation system is there for this reason u dun win the league unless u are really confirmed to have won it.  this is the risk that u have to take if u want to start straight away at a big club. if u don't want to follow the rules of the game u can always use the in game editor to make urself unsackable

[dolph11]

4 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Radomir Antic who recently died was sacked when he was first with Real Madrid because they didn't play beautiful  football apparently, so weird things like that can happen. Here in this case you are getting new chairman who has his vision of the future of the club and you are not part of it. To me it sounds realistic and it is rare, it's not like it happens all the time. In years playing I had that happen to me just once.

I'm very aware that it has happened. It happened also with a Real Madrid manager after winning a Champions League. Was it Vicente Del Bosque? My memory fails me. 

 

The chances of it happening before the end of the season in that position is highly unlikely.

Edited April 24, 2020 by dolph11

[ma3]

weird cause i done only one single season at a vanarama north team, won the season promoted to national league then resigned and applied for a **** ton of jobs, got a bunch of replies frm championship side brentford, and a bunch of league 1 and 2 sides, ended up taking a ligue 2 team for a challenge though as they were bankrupt lol, i only had b liseence and the lowest football experience like sunday league footballer or something 

 

edit: also yeah unfortunately new owners can screw with things, one time an italian guy buy my club and replaced me because he wanted some specific italian dude as manager

Edited April 24, 2020 by ma3

[yolixeya]

19 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

I'm very aware that it has happened. It happened also with a Real Madrid manager after winning a Champions League. Was it Vicente Del Bosque? My memory fails me. 

 

The chances of it happening before the end of the season in that position is highly unlikely.

Yeah, Di Matteo was also fired at Chelasa at the end of the season after winning CL. Antić was fired in January while 1st in the league with 7 point difference.

IRL they if they would fire him that close to end of the season they would still let him finish the season but he would probably know that after that he is gone.

[dolph11]

This is my point. The firing him with ten games to go is the problem. Of course, quite often new owners come in with a different philosophy but as I alluded to earlier, it's highly unlikely they'd sack him at that point. I believe they'd see how it played out which, as a manager, you wouldn't mind. If you aren't successful in the end, you accept the sack. If you are, you accept the sack and the reputation boost for gaining promotion.

[zyfon5]

43 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

This is my point. The firing him with ten games to go is the problem. Of course, quite often new owners come in with a different philosophy but as I alluded to earlier, it's highly unlikely they'd sack him at that point. I believe they'd see how it played out which, as a manager, you wouldn't mind. If you aren't successful in the end, you accept the sack. If you are, you accept the sack and the reputation boost for gaining promotion.

of course it is unfortunate that he was sacked due to new owners coming in but it happens in real life. ten games can be the difference between winning the league in the end or dropping out of top 6 so nothing is guaranteed at that point. if it is like 2 or 3 games then sure SI might want to consider changing the programming there so that the AI is more patient at that point. as i have said earlier, u can use the in game editor if u want to remove realism from the game. 

[dolph11]

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

of course it is unfortunate that he was sacked due to new owners coming in but it happens in real life. ten games can be the difference between winning the league in the end or dropping out of top 6 so nothing is guaranteed at that point. if it is like 2 or 3 games then sure SI might want to consider changing the programming there so that the AI is more patient at that point. as i have said earlier, u can use the in game editor if u want to remove realism from the game. 

I tend to disagree. 10 games remaining, no transfer window, players the new manager probably doesn't know = a monumental risk. Seriously, the chances of this happening are extremely minimal. 

[yolixeya]

11 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

I tend to disagree. 10 games remaining, no transfer window, players the new manager probably doesn't know = a monumental risk. Seriously, the chances of this happening are extremely minimal. 

10 games ramaining would be late Febuary, early March maybe, managers get sacked and replaced even in that period of time I just don't know any examples happening while they were topping the table.

[saintrainhard]

6 hours ago, LetsNotScoreGoals said:

Build a comeback story, manage a **** team and then climb up to pummel the crap out of Sunderland :P

This what you should do, make the Sunderland new board regret they kick you out.  Just like in my current save, when I get kicked out by Fleetwood at League Two, get another job at Leyton Orient on League Two too

After 3 years back to back promotion, I am currently in second season in EPL, avoid relegation in final day of my first season in EPL and made Man United relegated at year 2053 (pos 19th)

Fleetwood are still in league 2 currently 

[dolph11]

13 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

10 games ramaining would be late Febuary, early March maybe, managers get sacked and replaced even in that period of time I just don't know any examples happening while they were topping the table.

In England ten games remaining would be more mid-March. I believe it's fairly unheard of for a manager to be fired for footballing reasons whilst top of the league with 10 games remaining.

[yolixeya]

3 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

In England ten games remaining would be more mid-March. I believe it's fairly unheard of for a manager to be fired for footballing reasons whilst top of the league with 10 games remaining.

Plenty of in and outs can happen in March too. Look here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43242465

I don't know what you mean by footballing reasons but here in this case we have a very specific reason which is change of management. They have not appointed you and you don't fit in their vision so they cut you. It is rare and it is unlikely but I wouldn't say impossible. And it is rare in the game too.

 

[dolph11]

4 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Plenty of in and outs can happen in March too. Look here https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43242465

I don't know what you mean by footballing reasons but here in this case we have a very specific reason which is change of management. They have not appointed you and you don't fit in their vision so they cut you. It is rare and it is unlikely but I wouldn't say impossible. And it is rare in the game too.

 

I have no argument about the change of a manager in March, I do however have an argument to a change of manager when a team is top of the league with ten games remaining. As I said, you can say it's possible as anything in football is! That's not really the point here though, is it? It's kinda ruined this user's game and it would ruin mine. Is something so rare and basically possibly never happened worth putting into the game? 

[yolixeya]

 

9 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

 As I said, you can say it's possible as anything in football is! That's not really the point here though, is it? It's kinda ruined this user's game and it would ruin mine. Is something so rare and basically possibly never happened worth putting into the game? 

Well for me that is the point. If it could happen I have no problem with it. They probably didn't code it to happen at a specific time in season, it just happens when there is a takeover.

In recent years I liked playing journeyman saves so it's not that of big deal for me when I get sacked, but I can understand that it can be painful to get sacking like that especially if you want to play with specific club.

[dolph11]

Just now, yolixeya said:

 

Well for me that is the point. If it could happen I have no problem with it. They probably didn't code it to happen at a specific time in season, it just happens when there is a takeover.

In recent years I liked playing journeyman saves so it's not that of big deal for me when I get sacked, but I can understand that it can be painful to get sacking like that especially if you want to play with specific club.

I agree. As I stated before, if implemented correctly it is a fantastic addition to the game. However, as with quite a few things that have been implemented, it can be hit or miss, unfortunately. I do want it in the game for the realism aspect, I don't want it in the game if it throws up instances like this. 

[Smurf]

As harsh as it sounds - look at Newcastle, there's a Saudi buyer interested and the first thing they apparently want to do is hire Massimo Allegri.

This is a new world of football, billionaire buyers of clubs and oust old managers and bring in new world class ones. 

It happened at Man City also - when they weren't a big club at the time. Some of their stalwart players were axed in favour of bringing in better players.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything either - and it does suck. I do wish there was an option to turn this off as it can ruin a game for you.

I was managing  Leeds one time and thought to myself I'd love to restore them to champions league club again - and I got them promoted in my first season. Got them to 4th in league by year 3. And the club was bought over and all of a sudden had the money and reputation to build any squad I wanted. 

I wasn't sacked. But I was backed by finances and this ruined my save for me - I wanted to do it the hard way and build them up slowly and get better and better and better. But all of the sudden the board demanded big name signings and all that crack.

Literally ruined my save for me. 

[mp_87]

Yeah I do think the timing is off on that one and that's unlucky. In real life I'd imagine what would be the most likely course of events is that the incumbent manager plays out the 10 games and then gets sacked in the summer - even if they've won the league, and there would be uproar about it (and if this was the course of action on FM, of course!) - when the new owners choose their own man who they think can take the club on to bigger and better things. They would minimise disruption and distraction for those last few games and wait to make a change.

Difficult to factor in such nuance in the FM world and code calculations though...

Edited April 24, 2020 by mp_87

[yolixeya]

1 hour ago, mp_87 said:

Difficult to factor in such nuance in the FM world and code calculations though...

I don't know anything about coding but they would just need to ensure takeovers don't happen late in the season. 

[potbellypigs]

This wouldn't have happened had you not put in unrealistic badges and reputation.

[XaW]

3 hours ago, dolph11 said:

I have no argument about the change of a manager in March, I do however have an argument to a change of manager when a team is top of the league with ten games remaining. As I said, you can say it's possible as anything in football is! That's not really the point here though, is it? It's kinda ruined this user's game and it would ruin mine. Is something so rare and basically possibly never happened worth putting into the game? 

Didn't Barcelona lead La Liga and were through in CL when Valverde got fired? And that was mostly down to play style, if I remember correctly.

Imagine if that had happened in FM, there'd be tinfoil hats everywhere!

[dolph11]

6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Didn't Barcelona lead La Liga and were through in CL when Valverde got fired? And that was mostly down to play style, if I remember correctly.

Imagine if that had happened in FM, there'd be tinfoil hats everywhere!

Well, that's a different matter altogether as that would come under the 'Club Vision' umbrella given that it wasn't a new owner and they had given their requirements at the beginning of the season, of which he didn't fulfill; win the league playing attractive and entertaining football. I would say it's an unbelievable sacking in reality but it's not from a new board and it was half-way through the season. 

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Well, that's a different matter altogether as that would come under the 'Club Vision' umbrella given that it wasn't a new owner and they had given their requirements at the beginning of the season, of which he didn't fulfill; win the league playing attractive and entertaining football. I would say it's an unbelievable sacking in reality but it's not from a new board and it was half-way through the season. 

Of course it's different, but it's still fired as 1st in the league and the results were clearly good enough to be able to win it, so I found them comparable.

I'd say that if some billionaire bought Stoke when Pulis was in charge, I doubt he would keep his job no matter how well he did. The billionaire want to see Messiesque dribbles, not see Rory Delap throw ins from the middle of the field.

That said, I think the sacking of ANY manager when they are delivering on the pitch is harsh, but it could happen in real life so I think it should be a possibility in FM as well.

Edited April 24, 2020 by XaW

[Gross_Ballon]

10 hours ago, LetsNotScoreGoals said:

Build a comeback story, manage a **** team and then climb up to pummel the crap out of Sunderland :P

Good shout !!! do this will be a wild save trust me!! and do so well they ask you to come back then go to newcastle and say F you wankers make it a goal to ruin Sunderland 

[marksbros6]

5 hours ago, saintrainhard said:

This what you should do, make the Sunderland new board regret they kick you out.  Just like in my current save, when I get kicked out by Fleetwood at League Two, get another job at Leyton Orient on League Two too

After 3 years back to back promotion, I am currently in second season in EPL, avoid relegation in final day of my first season in EPL and made Man United relegated at year 2053 (pos 19th)

Fleetwood are still in league 2 currently 

Wait for the Newcastle job to come up and apply?

[dolph11]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Of course it's different, but it's still fired as 1st in the league and the results were clearly good enough to be able to win it, so I found them comparable.

I'd say that if some billionaire bought Stoke when Pulis was in charge, I doubt he would keep his job no matter how well he did. The billionaire want to see Messiesque dribbles, not see Rory Delap throw ins from the middle of the field.

That said, I think the sacking of ANY manager when they are delivering on the pitch is harsh, but it could happen in real life so I think it should be a possibility in FM as well.

Again, it's not comparable. Firstly, the entertaining football side of it really shouldn't be in FM's club vision as it's so subjective. You could end up getting sacked for no reason. If that starts entering the game it's going too far for something that rarely happens in real life. Pulis has, at times, played some good football with his teams (Palace), that being said, at Stoke he did go ugly. However, he didn't have a lot of money to play with so it depends what type of owner took over. Secondly, were Pulis to be top of the Premier League with 10 games to go playing turgid football I doubt he would have been sacked by new owners. 

 

I still say that sacking a manager with 10 games remaining when they are top of the league is not really justifiable. Can it happen in real life, of course, with an idiotic owner, but the likelihood of it happening is minimal. 

[sporadicsmiles]

I can totally understand why you are annoyed and upset by that, it would be extremely annoying to have happen. You could just retire you manager and add a new one, since you are only part way through the first season it would not be losing too much. At least that way you keep control of Sunderland. 

In terms of it happening though, you can understand why. 3/4 of a good season is not that long. Many managers can have short term success before fading away. You have no earned anything yet. And add to this the reputation and you can see where it comes from. I absolutely agree it is unfair, but I'm also not an owner who has just bought a club. The reputation is also why you are struggling to get a job. For better or worse, that is how the game decides if you are good enough. And you have not had time to build a reputation yet. I actually agree that you should get a job in at a higher level, because teams would likely be interested after you had a good season. The other factor working against you here is that Sunderland are expected to win the league. So you are not overachieving with them, you are doing exactly what you are supposed to. 

Commiserations though. I feel for you. 

[lukew0612]

8 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

of course it is unfortunate that he was sacked due to new owners coming in but it happens in real life. ten games can be the difference between winning the league in the end or dropping out of top 6 so nothing is guaranteed at that point. if it is like 2 or 3 games then sure SI might want to consider changing the programming there so that the AI is more patient at that point. as i have said earlier, u can use the in game editor if u want to remove realism from the game. 

I understand that there’s a hinge of realism to it but not being able to get another job T the same level is the joke!

[lukew0612]

3 hours ago, potbellypigs said:

This wouldn't have happened had you not put in unrealistic badges and reputation.

Not exactly unrealistic, tried to be a manager of the same calibre as Andre villas-boas (no playing experience) and even Jose Mourino (played low level football in Portugal). To earn the respect of everyone was the challenge I tried to do so no it wasn’t unrealistic.

[yolixeya]

50 minutes ago, lukew0612 said:

Not exactly unrealistic, tried to be a manager of the same calibre as Andre villas-boas (no playing experience) and even Jose Mourino (played low level football in Portugal). To earn the respect of everyone was the challenge I tried to do so no it wasn’t unrealistic.

Your reputation is probably too low for level you are trying to apply. You can absolutely be same calibre like Villas-Boas and Mourinho but it takes time in FM to build that reputation. In FM 19 I started without badges and as Sunday League player with end goal of managing AC Milan but it took me 10-12 years to get there. 

[Danny648]

Thats *****, i would just add myself as a new manager with the next manager job that takes your fancy, instead of starting a new save

[enigmatic]

On 24/04/2020 at 10:10, dolph11 said:

People are trying to legitimise this sacking? Unbelievable. It's a game. His reputation at this point shouldn't be a factor. Of course, we want realism but only to a degree. If you start with a club and want to build a career with them getting the sack like that totally negates the point of playing the game. 

From a gameplay point of view it's utterly terrible. From a realism perspective, new owners and weird owners replacing managers at the top of the league happens surprisingly often, as does their successor finishing second...

The bigger issue is that the reputation doesn't update fast enough. A caretaker manager who'd been top of the Championship for most of a season would get job interviews in the National League, even if they didn't have any other achievements to their name.

[dolph11]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

From a gameplay point of view it's utterly terrible. From a realism perspective, new owners and weird owners replacing managers at the top of the league happens surprisingly often, as does their successor finishing second...

The bigger issue is that the reputation doesn't update fast enough. A caretaker manager who'd been top of the Championship for most of a season would get job interviews in the National League, even if they didn't have any other achievements to their name.

The only one of those close to this situation was the Burley sacking. The others were mid-season or at the end of the season (still ridiculous). My issue here is the timing. Ten games remaining is unheard of of. Mid-season or end of season is heard of. Either way, is it worth it in the game? Yes, we want realism and immersion, but this extent? 

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Mid-season or end of season is heard of

But the new owners didn't take over in mid-season. Not sure why the timing is relevant here - they fired a no-name manager despite the no-name manager doing very well because they wanted to install someone else with a much higher reputation to spend their funds. From a gameplay perspective it sucks, but it'd also suck being sacked in December or June without doing anything wrong..

[dolph11]

31 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

But the new owners didn't take over in mid-season. Not sure why the timing is relevant here - they fired a no-name manager despite the no-name manager doing very well because they wanted to install someone else with a much higher reputation to spend their funds. From a gameplay perspective it sucks, but it'd also suck being sacked in December or June without doing anything wrong..

Come on now, being sacked in December would suck but you know nothing is guaranteed at that point anyhow. I doubt any new owner would sack a manager with ten games remaining when they are top of the league, this is why it's unheard of. 

[lex311085]

The sacking was not reasonable but Sunderland at the same time wouldn't have given the job to someone with just semi pro experience and a pro license. I think that's the problem. 

[lukew0612]

2 hours ago, lex311085 said:

The sacking was not reasonable but Sunderland at the same time wouldn't have given the job to someone with just semi pro experience and a pro license. I think that's the problem. 

Ben Garner who’s manager at Bristol Rovers was appointed this season, he has no past playing experience or managing experience, he was just a first team coach at a few clubs. Just would like FM to tweak a few things and it would be spot on.

[Federico]

Well...

Season 1: won domestic Super Cup and Champions League

Season 2: won nothing

Season 3: I've been sacked after losing the domestic Cup final, and after a short briefing, because I couldn't win any trophy as requested by the board. It baffled me because I was top of the league, only 2 games to be played and 1 win away to get it mathematically. I felt screwed and cheated a little bit, because I was about to win a trophy in about 1 week. So I reloaded, lost again the domestic Cup final (as I had lost it before..), Board disappointed, briefing, asked me same question and replied them the same answers. Now they're happy to keep me. It seemed really random to me.

[yolixeya]

29 minutes ago, lukew0612 said:

Ben Garner who’s manager at Bristol Rovers was appointed this season, he has no past playing experience or managing experience, he was just a first team coach at a few clubs. Just would like FM to tweak a few things and it would be spot on.

In FM first team coaches and all other staff also grow their reputation. I just looked at his wiki page, he works in football since 2005 plus he was mentored by Mourinho. It also says he has a UEFA Pro Licence since 2014.  I seen plenty of times in FM similar situation where staff member would become head coach.  Nothing out of ordinary.