Outrageous contract expectations

[thizaum]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm not sure this is the right category, but I'm having problems with contracts in my save.

The players that I'm trying to sign are requesting more than 200% what the scouts expect and my highest paid players. I was getting signs of these and thought they were circumstantial, but now I got 2 very good examples.

I'm managing a very successful Sao Paulo that won everything in the last 4 seasons. My best paid players are earning 2-2.5MM euros annually and I can see that Palmeiras, Corinthians and Flamengo are more or less levelled with this.

But then one player that was earning 1MM wanted to move to Europe. When I started trying to extend his contract, his expectations began at 3MM and ended at 7MM before straight up refusing to discuss them.

Then there was a Mexican wonderkid that I was trying to sign. The scout expected somewhere between 1-2MM. Then Man City bid for him and I tried to sign him as well (because I sold one of my stars in the same position). He asked for 7MM!

What was my surprise when I saw that Man City sign him for 3.7MM annually. WTF?!

What's going on? Did I inflate expectations? Or could it be because the players know I have too much money?

I know that it's realistic for someone who wants to play at Real Madrid or Man City to ask for more money from a lower side, but it's happening almost with every "known" player I try to sign.

[KillYourIdols]

Maybe your scouts aren't up to scratch regarding expected wages? IIRC, its a variable and is based on stats. My league 1 scouts are usually quite some distance off what players ask for, I tend to ignore it for the most part.

But regarding some players, they will accept lower wages from higher reputation clubs. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by KillYourIdols

[Russiandude]

Maybe the scout report is outdated. Wage demands can change frequently due to various reasons. If you make a high profile transfer and the player draws interest because of a leak then that might inflate their wage even if the scout report is up to date.

Also certain pre-negotiation promises can inflate their demands by a lot but not always. I've had a player asking for double the expected wage just because I told him we'll reach playoff.

[thizaum]

2 hours ago, KillYourIdols said:

Maybe your scouts aren't up to scratch regarding expected wages? IIRC, its a variable and is based on stats. My league 1 scouts are usually quite some distance off what players ask for, I tend to ignore it for the most part.

But regarding some players, they will accept lower wages from higher reputation clubs. 

Then what would explain:

1. These players asking for wages more than double of the best players in the country?

2. The same player accepting lower wages from other club?

 

2 hours ago, Russiandude said:

Maybe the scout report is outdated. Wage demands can change frequently due to various reasons. If you make a high profile transfer and the player draws interest because of a leak then that might inflate their wage even if the scout report is up to date.

Also certain pre-negotiation promises can inflate their demands by a lot but not always. I've had a player asking for double the expected wage just because I told him we'll reach playoff.

The scout report isn't outdated. I've had my eye on this player for more than an year, scouted him 3 times. And do consider that I mention scouts in one of my  2 examples.

And regarding your 2nd point, after some trial and error (quit and load), I've only seen case of promises inflating demands. That's why I don't use them anymore and wasn't using them in these cases.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, thizaum said:

Then what would explain:

1. These players asking for wages more than double of the best players in the country?

2. The same player accepting lower wages from other club?

What they are asking isn't the minimum they will accept. It's a starting point for a discussion. Mind, there could be issues, but then you should report it in the bugs section and let SI check it out. They don't pick up issues from GD.

[thizaum]

34 minutes ago, XaW said:

What they are asking isn't the minimum they will accept. It's a starting point for a discussion.

I know. But when the starting point is 300% what's fair, it won't get much lower than 270%. 

 

35 minutes ago, XaW said:

Mind, there could be issues, but then you should report it in the bugs section and let SI check it out. They don't pick up issues from GD.

True. I actually do have an issue with one contract reported here, but they are taking a very long time to reply back. Let's hope this is not the case, otherwise my save (or my career at this club) is lost.

 

[tajj7]

Yeh I've seen this a few times, I was trying to sign a young czech player, regen, he wasn't anywhere near first team level and he wanted £89k a week, he was on like £500 at his club. My scouts (who had just scouted him and are top level) estimated he'd want like £2k a week. 

[sporadicsmiles]

13 hours ago, thizaum said:

1. These players asking for wages more than double of the best players in the country?

2. The same player accepting lower wages from other club?

These two things are likely linked. Both examples you have cited have said the player was either looking to move to Europe or had an offer from Europe. Europe is a much more attractive option for players. They are playing at the highest level, in the biggest profile competitions for the biggest teams in the world. That is attractive enough that they will have less wage demands. The attraction is the leagues. Plus the fact that if they play well and develop the scope for their wage increase is much higher. Even the possibility of becoming a star player for a team who are not quite at the top is very lucrative.

Thus if you want a player to stay and not go to Europe, you need to give them an incentive. Which in most cases will be a huge wage. You are asking them against making the career choice that gives them the most exposure, and thus they want compensation for that. 

Now you can always try to negotiate them down, offer contract perks etc. to bring their wages down, but ultimately if they are good enough to play in Europe you are fighting a losing battle (at least until you can make your team and league rival Europe, which is possible in the game). You get the same thing in less reputable leagues in Europe. Good players gravitate towards bigger leagues, even if it means accepting initially lower wages. This is one of the things you simply have to accept as being true in football. Both in real life and in the game. Best to just cash in on the player and get a bunch of money, and to find young players as early as possible when you represent a step up they are interested in. 

For a real world example, imagine you are offered a job at a huge multinational company. Which will look excellent on your CV and will provide ample chance to climb the ladder and end up in a top job on huge wages. On the contrary, a smaller company offers you a job. It looks less good for your CV, there are fewer options to climb to a better position, and less scope for increased wages. If you want to go to the second company, you are going to want significant perks in your contract that makes it worthwhile for you. Maybe a larger wage which is similar to what you could eventually earn at the bigger company. Or bonuses that are fixed (or goal oriented but achievable). 

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

Yeh I've seen this a few times, I was trying to sign a young czech player, regen, he wasn't anywhere near first team level and he wanted £89k a week, he was on like £500 at his club. My scouts (who had just scouted him and are top level) estimated he'd want like £2k a week. 

If you're playing in England post-Brexit, he was probably asking for that because otherwise he wouldn't get a work permit, and he didn't want to move unless he was going to play.

[thizaum]

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Thus if you want a player to stay and not go to Europe, you need to give them an incentive. Which in most cases will be a huge wage. You are asking them against making the career choice that gives them the most exposure, and thus they want compensation for that. 

Hey. Thanks for your answer. Let's discuss on this. There's a real life example that happened a few months ago in Brazil:

https://sempreinter.com/2020/01/08/inter-striker-gabigol-reduces-wage-demands-is-getting-closer-to-joining-flamengo/

This is saying that 4MM euros was too much for Flamengo and that he had to lower it considerably (something impossible to suggest to the player in FM). My best paid player is being paid 2.5MM. I'd be willing to go to 3-3.5 for these player. But how on earth are they demanding 7-8MM? Again these wages are too high even for European standards.

 

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

but ultimately if they are good enough to play in Europe you are fighting a losing battle (at least until you can make your team and league rival Europe, which is possible in the game).

How is this possible in the game?

[sporadicsmiles]

13 minutes ago, thizaum said:

This is saying that 4MM euros was too much for Flamengo and that he had to lower it considerably (something impossible to suggest to the player in FM).

4M per year is around 85k per week, right? I normally work in weekly wages so I wanted to make sure I am in the right ballpark here. Which yes is a lot for South America, but not for Europe. 

The difference with this player is that he wants to go the other way. He has not succeeded in Europe and wants to return to Brazil. At least that is how I am reading this. Now I have rarely managed in Brazil, so I cannot easily comment on how likely it is to sign players like this (maybe someone else does), but it is not unheard of for players to return to Brazil (or other South American countries) after a failed spell in Europe or at the end of their careers. 

Here the main difference is what the player wants. In the examples you posted, the player wants to go to Europe. In this one from real life, the player wants to return to Brazil. A fairer comparison for your examples would probably be Vinicius Jr moving to Real Madrid. 

That all being said, if you do think it is a bug, post it as such on the relevant forum. I am not saying for sure I am correct, just that it makes sense. It is always good to check these things if unsure.

41 minutes ago, thizaum said:

How is this possible in the game?

Sustained success for your league domestically and continentally. Although I have never tried to do such a thing with a league outside of Europe, so maybe it is harder. League reputation is dynamic in FM, so you can grow a league over time (or it can in principle decline too). 

[thizaum]

38 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

4M per year is around 85k per week, right? I normally work in weekly wages so I wanted to make sure I am in the right ballpark here. Which yes is a lot for South America, but not for Europe. 

The difference with this player is that he wants to go the other way. He has not succeeded in Europe and wants to return to Brazil. At least that is how I am reading this. Now I have rarely managed in Brazil, so I cannot easily comment on how likely it is to sign players like this (maybe someone else does), but it is not unheard of for players to return to Brazil (or other South American countries) after a failed spell in Europe or at the end of their careers. 

Here the main difference is what the player wants. In the examples you posted, the player wants to go to Europe. In this one from real life, the player wants to return to Brazil. A fairer comparison for your examples would probably be Vinicius Jr moving to Real Madrid. 

So, I guess:

2MM per year = 39k per week

4MM per year = 77k per week

7MM = 135k per week

8MM = 154k per week

As I said. I wouldn't mind paying 60-70. But it's strange that he asks for 150k to me and accepts 75k from Man C.

 

42 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Sustained success for your league domestically and continentally. Although I have never tried to do such a thing with a league outside of Europe, so maybe it is harder. League reputation is dynamic in FM, so you can grow a league over time (or it can in principle decline too). 

I do have this. You could say I have "an unseen continental and domestic supremacy" over the last 4 seasons. I can say this because I know the history. I honestly do not see what else can I improve. I also improve Facilities as much as the board allows, even though I have too much money.

 

Anyways, thanks for taking a stab at this. =)

I'll try to gather more info and if so, I might report it. Sadly, my aforementioned bug report got news today: "it's a known issue and we are looking into it". Basically, this (and that) are messing my save and there will be no way of solving it. 

I've been playing CM/FM for more than 20 years and this is the first time that I looked forward to a patch (because of the 1on1s) and had to report a bug (perhaps now 2).

Cheers. 

[sporadicsmiles]

8 minutes ago, thizaum said:

As I said. I wouldn't mind paying 60-70. But it's strange that he asks for 150k to me and accepts 75k from Man C.

We can agree to disagree. While I can understand being annoyed by it (I would be too), I can understand why he would do that.

9 minutes ago, thizaum said:

I do have this. You could say I have "an unseen continental and domestic supremacy" over the last 4 seasons. I can say this because I know the history. I honestly do not see what else can I improve. I also improve Facilities as much as the board allows, even though I have too much money.

No, honestly I have never really tried to do this specifically. I normally play saves where I move around when I get a good offer, rather than being a one club man. Maybe someone reading this can provide some more info on this. 

[petertr]

As I posted on the bugs forum a moment ago from which this is linked, I think there's a bug that if a player wouldn't sign for you without a WP, then he will only ask for a wage that will trigger a WP acceptance on appeal.

I've had this happen to me a few times now, and on the most recent occasion (£10,000pw scout 100% today estimate vs £55,000 actual - player doesn't have an agent and favours a move to my team over the other team bidding), I handed over to my board to try - to see if it helped.  And they just happened to offer the EXACT sum that would trigger a WP on appeal.

He's probably too good to loan out to get EU citizenship to be honest, so I'm guessing the game knew he'd refuse to sign without it and that's why the figure is being escalated?