Wide Systems

[Vinay17]

"I want to play a possesion system, but not only having the ball, I want to give this possesion a purpose."

- So what purpose can I give to this possesion? The first and only answer that I have got for that question was: attack. I want to have possesion to score goals 

- But how can I have possesion and attack at the same time? Well, the answer to this can be very variated but all ends up with the same reason: generate space. I want to generate a space which gives me a free road for a shot or a pass to the net.

- Well I know that I want to have the ball to generate space, and after that score goals, but... How can I achieve it? Here I started thinking the only way to generate space is drag opposition into a place of the pitch, and there comes the width, if I play a narrow system my players will be on the center of the pitch so the space will be generated on the flanks, on the other side if I play with a wide system, my players will be spread all over the pitch so... the space will be generated on the center of the pitch

- How can I take advantage of the space generated? In this case I will talk about wide systems as the title said, on a wide system the main reason is to spread the players and use all wide of the pitch to exploit the center area, once the opposition is dragged to wide areas I need runners to get in the "free space" that my players generated

So I try to apply what my thoughts tell me.

This is not a guide, this is only me and my silly thoughts and how I try to achieve the football that I want.

 

 

[dejarik]

Do you use any PIs?

[Vinay17]

WB stay wider and a split block on my front four 

[frukox]

2 minutes ago, Vinay17 said:

WB stay wider and a split block on my front four 

Vinay, that’s a really good starting point but I’d swap IW-IF and put a DLPS. He would have six options ahead of him. Put an A behind MEZA because it’s a really risky role and you need a real holder role there. By the way, you can increase the risk as you have lots of support duties and put only Slightly Shorter Passing with WBIB and get rid of focusing play to center of the pitch. If you have Take Short Kick, let SK decide on who to distribute the ball. Furthermore, if you want to defend in a high block, you’d want to tick Counter because you want to exploit any opportunities after a turnover in their half.

[Vinay17]

7 hours ago, frukox said:

Vinay, that’s a really good starting point but I’d swap IW-IF and put a DLPS. He would have six options ahead of him. Put an A behind MEZA because it’s a really risky role and you need a real holder role there. By the way, you can increase the risk as you have lots of support duties and put only Slightly Shorter Passing with WBIB and get rid of focusing play to center of the pitch. If you have Take Short Kick, let SK decide on who to distribute the ball. Furthermore, if you want to defend in a high block, you’d want to tick Counter because you want to exploit any opportunities after a turnover in their half.

The idea is to change the IW with the IF, but the thing is that my AML is no good with passes yet

I have changed my RPM into a DLP(s)

And what do you think is better an A or HB? but the DM(d) gives me good cover till now and if we change RPM for DLP(s) I think that there is no need to change the role

I think that focusing the play on the center of the pitch is a TI to balance the reason that we play wide

[frukox]

5 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

The idea is to change the IW with the IF, but the thing is that my AML is no good with passes yet

I have changed my RPM into a DLP(s)

And what do you think is better an A or HB? but the DM(d) gives me good cover till now and if we change RPM for DLP(s) I think that there is no need to change the role

I think that focusing the play on the center of the pitch is a TI to balance the reason that we play wide

A is a great role for disciplined defences and if you train some playmaking traits for the player there, you ll have a great combo of defensive solidity and attacking power. With regard to HB, it is a holding playmaking role advised to be used if you have two aggressive wingbacks but the drawback is you lose your number advantage in the midfield as he'll become the third defender during build-up play. It is really important for a high-press possession style. Focusing play to the middle increases the mentalities of defend duties in the middle. If you are willing to take the risk, who am I to argue? If it works for you, it works. It's your choice, mate;)

Edited April 6, 2020 by frukox

[zyfon5]

50 minutes ago, frukox said:

A is a great role for disciplined defences and if you train some playmaking traits for the player there, you ll have a great combo of defensive solidity and attacking power. With regard to HB, it is a holding playmaking role advised to be used if you have two aggressive wingbacks but the drawback is you lose your number advantage in the midfield as he'll become the third defender during build-up play. It is really important for a high-press possession style. Focusing play to the middle increases the mentalities of defend duties in the middle. If you are willing to take the risk, who am I to argue? If it works for you, it works. It's your choice, mate;)

Half back doesn't necessarily reduce your advantage in the middle. Since u can push two aggressive wingbacks high up the pitch to maintain width u can set up two wingers to come narrower or play two strikers and drop one of them deeper to link up play. I will even argue that playing a half back actually increase ur advantage in midfield.

[DimitrisLar]

i use a half back. he goes as a third cb in the build up and when the ball goes from the height of the middle of the pitch and more, he is playing like a dlp. i use him to switch the play to the other flank. he got a hell of % of succesful passes and with good anticipation he makes tactical fouls to stop play. as a possesion based style you ll need that. btw here he is http://prntscr.com/rtu6rs 

[zyfon5]

7 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

The idea is to change the IW with the IF, but the thing is that my AML is no good with passes yet

I have changed my RPM into a DLP(s)

And what do you think is better an A or HB? but the DM(d) gives me good cover till now and if we change RPM for DLP(s) I think that there is no need to change the role

I think that focusing the play on the center of the pitch is a TI to balance the reason that we play wide

The choice of HB or A really depends on how u want to build up attack. If u need someone from the midfield to drop deep and build play from the back half back will be much better than anchorman. If u need a player to provide defensive cover and hold his position offering very little in attacking play while others push very high anchorman will be better. If u have use a defensive midfielder on defend duty before anchorman is similar to that but his main priority is to block central spaces unlike defensive midfielder who will actively look to cover spaces

[DimitrisLar]

On 05/04/2020 at 02:14, Vinay17 said:

"I want to play a possesion system, but not only having the ball, I want to give this possesion a purpose."

- So what purpose can I give to this possesion? The first and only answer that I have got for that question was: attack. I want to have possesion to score goals 

- But how can I have possesion and attack at the same time? Well, the answer to this can be very variated but all ends up with the same reason: generate space. I want to generate a space which gives me a free road for a shot or a pass to the net.

- Well I know that I want to have the ball to generate space, and after that score goals, but... How can I achieve it? Here I started thinking the only way to generate space is drag opposition into a place of the pitch, and there comes the width, if I play a narrow system my players will be on the center of the pitch so the space will be generated on the flanks, on the other side if I play with a wide system, my players will be spread all over the pitch so... the space will be generated on the center of the pitch

- How can I take advantage of the space generated? In this case I will talk about wide systems as the title said, on a wide system the main reason is to spread the players and use all wide of the pitch to exploit the center area, once the opposition is dragged to wide areas I need runners to get in the "free space" that my players generated

So I try to apply what my thoughts tell me.

This is not a guide, this is only me and my silly thoughts and how I try to achieve the football that I want.

 

 

would you mind if you switch all wide roles so u get at left your if etc etc? it might help you, i had some issues yesterday and one advice i got and worked wonders was having an iw(s) in front of my mezz(a). the same goes for the backs

also maybe pick the be more expressive so you can have more of 1-2's behind enemies d-line. 

the wide instruction is maybe optional. you can pick a stay wider on the wb(s), he ll give you space but check him on the build up phase if you like his positioning.

damned, third time editing! i always forgot. there was a topic here where they were discussing possesion with intent and stuff like that. the possesion tiki taka style, lots of passes and scoring, was discussed as having these as a base: positive, work ball into box, more expressive, maybe short pass, pof, maybe counter-press, high d-line and thats it. 

from my experience it works and if an enemy is holding the ball playing around with it in his own half (i was raging yesterday and searching 3-4 hours for a formula) you can just click up the d-line and the loe and you ll get back the ball asap. only way to fail if they have very fast attackers.

Edited April 6, 2020 by DimitrisLar

[Vinay17]

What I see in my tactic is that the mezzala is usseles because idk what he is doing right and what he is doing wrong, indeed I dont see him participate a lot on the offensive fase

He have done no runs, no risky passes and he barely roam from position to get more involved, maybe he need specific traits to work well in a possesion style... like I was thinking a MEZZ(a) needs to get in the opp area, try killer balls often(? and runs with the ball(?

[Vinay17]

Right now what I have got is this:

As you can see I have a home game against Inter

DLF: Move into channels, Close down more

IW: Stay wider, Get further forward(this one is maybe not worth because the player have already a positive mentality?)

IF: Stay narrower

MEZZ: Close down more

HB: Tighter marking

WB: Stay wider

 

[DimitrisLar]

mezzala is a runner player. think of leo messi when he makes some crazy runs and gets 2,3,4,5,6,7 players around him. messi is just an example, iniesta played that role too and he wasn't playing that role with get into opp area. he had something like prefer to pass than score. in my system he is a 21yo with just decent dribbling, anticipation, agility, long shot. he usually carries the ball for some meters on the right, passes it on the iw and then i have a switch in the flanks and attack. sometimes he scores a good long shot, sometimes we win a corner or a foul. i've been testing my set pieces so i like what he does now. can you show some pictures of your mezz?

[DimitrisLar]

i'm not a guru, i just had some information yesterday and was searching for a while. to sum it up, they told me to get rid of mark tighter. as it seems it is applied mostly in defensive teams. you choose to close down only with the central attacking players? is that a specific purpose to press middle opponents and is it working? it seems ok with the IF and WB to one be wider and the other narrow but the IF does it as a role. if you read the description on the get narrow on the IF it says that it is applied to get him participate in the passing game in the final third. i got it on my if(a) and its ok but do u got this in mind? if yes, ok. the get further forward on the IW is something i cant answer. they told me the difference between if and iw is that iw is playing like a midfielder on his mindset. experienced defender game me some good advices but i dont know how to quote him and see your post.

Edited April 6, 2020 by DimitrisLar

[frukox]

3 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Half back doesn't necessarily reduce your advantage in the middle. Since u can push two aggressive wingbacks high up the pitch to maintain width u can set up two wingers to come narrower or play two strikers and drop one of them deeper to link up play. I will even argue that playing a half back actually increase ur advantage in midfield.

It depends on your style. I personally don’t like to see my full-backs advance further early taking risks in the build-up so I prefer to have a player in front of defence who can easily distribute to the playmaker ahead of him in the early build-up and from there I can start my attacks to wherever I please. I’m not a fan of direct wing-based play. I am already disappointed to see how much players prioritize to distribute the ball to wide areas of the pitch, resulting in deep and wide freekicks or crosses to a nimble attacker waiting at the far post but that’s already been discussed a lot.

[zyfon5]

8 minutes ago, frukox said:

It depends on your style. I personally don’t like to see my full-backs advance further early taking risks in the build-up so I prefer to have a player in front of defence who can easily distribute to the playmaker ahead of him in the early build-up and from there I can start my attacks to wherever I please. I’m not a fan of direct wing-based play. I am already disappointed to see how much players prioritize to distribute the ball to wide areas of the pitch, resulting in deep and wide freekicks or crosses to a nimble attacker waiting at the far post but that’s already been discussed a lot.

This year's engine seems to favour wide areas where there are more spaces so u can play two in central midfield and not worry about getting outnumbered in the middle like in previous match engine. Hence I do agree with ppl saying players tend to pass the ball to wide areas more

[DimitrisLar]

3 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

This year's engine seems to favour wide areas where there are more spaces so u can play two in central midfield and not worry about getting outnumbered in the middle like in previous match engine. Hence I do agree with ppl saying players tend to pass the ball to wide areas more

do you know how to get the wingbacks cross like normal wingbacks would or is it down to mentality to not cross?

[zyfon5]

1 hour ago, DimitrisLar said:

do you know how to get the wingbacks cross like normal wingbacks would or is it down to mentality to not cross?

i have only played one tactic with wingbacks so far in this year's version of game (the last version i played was fm18 which the wingbacks were much different than what u have now) but have not noticed too many issues with wingbacks not crossing normally on positive mentality with wingbacks on support duty. one thing i do notice is the tendency of crossing seems to have gone down compared to fm18 where every player will cross at any opportunity. maybe put cross more often and see if it makes it better?

[Vinay17]

33 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

i have only played one tactic with wingbacks so far in this year's version of game (the last version i played was fm18 which the wingbacks were much different than what u have now) but have not noticed too many issues with wingbacks not crossing normally on positive mentality with wingbacks on support duty. one thing i do notice is the tendency of crossing seems to have gone down compared to fm18 where every player will cross at any opportunity. maybe put cross more often and see if it makes it better?

Another thing that I see a lot is the players on the side taking too much time to cross even when you play hit early crosses, is like they have the space to cross but they take one time more and the opposition have time to block the cross 

[DimitrisLar]

9 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

Another thing that I see a lot is the players on the side taking too much time to cross even when you play hit early crosses, is like they have the space to cross but they take one time more and the opposition have time to block the cross 

 

10 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

i have only played one tactic with wingbacks so far in this year's version of game (the last version i played was fm18 which the wingbacks were much different than what u have now) but have not noticed too many issues with wingbacks not crossing normally on positive mentality with wingbacks on support duty. one thing i do notice is the tendency of crossing seems to have gone down compared to fm18 where every player will cross at any opportunity. maybe put cross more often and see if it makes it better?

i put a plug n play counter attacking tactic two months ago and it was happening but it had all those instructions plus a different mentality. i m wondering if tempo has anything to do and i put it on higher but nothing much. it doesnt have to find a good header, even a corner is fine with me, i got 1/4 of my goals from set pieces.

[zyfon5]

Wingback after fm19 has default run wide with ball instructions so maybe that's the reason they dun cross as much? I'm no tactical expert so can only speculate from my observations

4 hours ago, DimitrisLar said:

 

i put a plug n play counter attacking tactic two months ago and it was happening but it had all those instructions plus a different mentality. i m wondering if tempo has anything to do and i put it on higher but nothing much. it doesnt have to find a good header, even a corner is fine with me, i got 1/4 of my goals from set pieces.

Tempo is unlikely to change anything though try tinker with hit early crosses or more direct passing