Gegenpressing: The Roadmap to German Efficiency

[AceAvenger]

"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win."

Bringing Germany into a New Millennium

Gegenpressing, the buzzword of European football tactics in the 2010s. While it seemed a like tactical revolution when Borussia Dortmund stormed their way to their first two Bundesliga in nine years, following bouts with insolvency, the genealogy of this seemingly fresh new way of playing can be traced back to the 70s and 80s. Managers like Rinus Michels and, more importantly to this story, Arrigo Sacchi and Valeriy Lobanovskyi, sent their teams out to press. German clubs at this time were playing a very different way however, three at the back with strict man-marking and a sweeper, standing off the opposition.

At the turn of the millennium, Germany were still playing with this style. While it was successful at 1990 World Cup and the 1996 EUROs, Germany crashed out of both following EUROs at the group stage and only got to the 2002 World Cup final on an overreliance on the three Ks, Kahn, Kampf and Kopfball (Kahn, fight and headers). There needed to be a change. 

Back on the home front, things were beginning to change. A young Ralf Rangnick appeared on an episode of Das aktuelle Sportstudio in 1998, spreading a new doctrine of zonal marking with pressing and a flat back four. The leaders of German football thought it was heresy though. Franz Beckenbauer responded to the notion that tactics were important by saying "All this talk about the system is nonsense. Other players can do more with the ball, ours cannot. Four at the back, with zonal marking or a sweeper, it doesn't matter."

But a movement was happening. The aforementioned Rangnick has his eyes opened while during his stint as player/manager of Viktoria Backnang in 1984; Backnang played a friendly against Lobanovskyi's Dynamo Kiev and Rangnick was convinced that Dynamo had an extra play on the field due to their intensive press and supreme fitness. Another trailblazer was Wolfgang Frank, the journeyman coach was obsessed with Sacchi’s style of play.

A certain Jurgen Klopp recounts his time with Frank as a player at Mainz. “We watched very boring videos, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Pablo Maldini, Franco Baresi and Demetrio Albertini. We used to think if the other players were better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible; you can beat better teams by using tactics.”  

Frank spent two separate stints at Mainz, after he left for a second time, Klopp was asked to take the helm of the club following a slew of unsuccessful managers. He spent seven successful years at Mainz, implementing the style he was taught by Frank, and when Dortmund came calling after they finished 13^th in the league, Klopp joined them. The rest, as they say, is history.

What is Gegenpressing?

I have led you on far enough with my failed attempt of being a sports writer. If you have no taste and enjoyed my dribble then I wholly recommend you read Rafa Honigstein’s book Das Reboot and Michael Cox’s book Zonal Marking: The Making of Modern European Football. I’ve basically plagiarised them anyway.

So, what is gegenpressing? Well the translation to English is counter-pressing. As for what that means, I’m going to use the words of René Marić, the tactics-blogger-cum- Mönchengladbach-assistant coach.

Quote

Gegenpressing means to press the opposition right after losing possession, i.e. to press as an organized unit the moment you transition to defence. The entire team hunts the ball and, in the ideal case, immediately wins it back from the opponent. The aim is twofold; to prevent the opponent’s counterattack and to win the ball.

Many coaches tend to view the game of football as having four phases:

1. Attack
2. Defence
3. Transition from defence to attack
4. Transition from attack to defence

The core essence of gegenpressing is that last phase, in the transition from defence to attack. The focus there is to press the ball carrier as soon as the ball is lost, force a turn over and attack, instead of regrouping.

But why do this, why go to all this effort? Well, it is because it is the most opportune moment to win the ball back. The player who just won the ball might not have complete control of it, nor does he have a full picture of where his team-mates are.

Quote

There is hardly any moment where an individual player is more prone to pressing than immediately after winning the ball. And that is the big secret to the success of Gegenpressing.

Vertikalspiel; the Difference Between Klopp and Guardiola

Now, I know what you might be thinking, Guardiola has a great emphasis on pressing too, especially when he’s just lost the ball. But the difference in play style between a team managed by Guardiola and one managed by Klopp is verticality. Guardiola has his famous ’15-pass rule’, were he requires that number of passes to correctly orient his players in their positional play; Klopp emphasized vertical passes, ensuring the ball moved upfield as quickly as possible after the ball was won.

The Germans have a word for this style of play with the ball, vertikalspiel, literally vertical game. Klopp has gone on record saying he’s not a fan of the slow build-up typical of Guardiola’s teams. “Barcelona’s team of the last four years with their serenity… sorry, that’s not enough for me. If Barcelona’s team of the last four years has been the first one that I was play when I was four, I would have played tennis instead.”

There are also differences on how they both pursue the counter-press. Klopp wants his players in the general vicinity of the ball to press the ball carrier in unison, leaving the other players free but suffocating the man with the ball. Guardiola sets his players out to cut out the passing lanes when they lose the ball.

So how do we translate that to Football Manager? Well that’s easy, just use the preset.

Only joking, I will elaborate in the next post.

Auf wiedersehen!

References:

• Das Reboot: How German Football Reinvented Itself and Conquered the World By Raphael Honigstein 

• Zonal Marking: The Making of Modern European Football by Michael Cox

• Counter- or Gegenpressing by René Marić on Spielverlagerung.com

[AceAvenger]

Implementing the Tactic in Football Manager

Continuing with the theme of stealing stuff from people more talented than I am. I would like to turn your attention to @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! fantastic post about Playing Style and Structure to have an idea on how to develop this tactic.

On 22/11/2016 at 20:33, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Playing Style & Structure

Key Concepts:

• Playing Style - overall playing "philosophy" for want of a better word. In Football Manager terms, this is primarily the combination of:
  • Mentality
  • Team Shape
  • Team Instructions
• Structure - the organisation of a team on the field. In Football Manager terms, this refers to a combination of:
  • Formation
  • Player Role
  • Player Duty
  • Player Instructions

Playing Style depends on factors such as:

• How would you like your team to attack? quick transitions and fast attacks? Attacking wide? Controlled build-up from the back? Playing through the centre? Long balls? Counter attack? Tiki-taka?
• How would you like your team to defend? Intense pressing? High block? Sit deep and maintain structure? Low-Block? Park the bus?
• Is your approach to give players an NFL style 'play book' telling them exactly how to play, or the freedom to make decisions?

Whilst Structure is determined by:

• What formations can you play with the players you have available?
• How would you like to structure your defence / midfield / attack?
• Do you need a playmaker? A target man?
• Who is provides width? Who is holding in midfield? Who is making attacking runs?

RIP Team Shape

Let's get started!

Playing Style

Let’s recap what style of play we want to achieve with this tactic:

• Intense pressing and counter-pressing
• Vertical passing and quick transitions

The first thing we have to decide is the mentality, but what is mentality? Well mentality is a measure of how much emphasis you want your tactic to have on defence or attack. I like to look at it as risk vs. caution. The higher the mentality, the more your players will want to play riskier forward passes and make riskier forward runs. With this knowledge, we would want a higher mentality so we can encourage the players to be more adventurous when they have the ball and move it up the field as fast as possible.

I like to avoid extremes because they scare me so I've avoided using the Very Attacking mentality. So what's left is Positive and Attacking, which are the two mentalities I've used to develop my tactics.

As for the Team Instruction, we have to decide how our team plays:

• In Possession
• In Transition
• Out of Possession

Let's start with in possession, we have to determine how our play will evolve with respect to:

• Attacking width
• Approach play
• Final third

For our attacking width, I want us to be narrow, why narrow? Well, by keeping our attack narrow, play will be more congested in the middle. This will 'create conditions ripe for intense counter-pressing' if the ball is lost in the middle. For our approach play, the key things we have to ensure is our verticality, so more direct passing and a higher tempo is needed. With the attacking mentality, slightly more direct and higher tempo comes as the default, which is exactly how we want to play. I also want my team to pass into space to ensure we are taking advantage of any gaps in the oppositions defence after we won the ball back. Futhermore, I want to look for the overlaps, but the reasoning behind this will become clear when I talk about the player roles.

Moving onto how we play in transition, we have to decide:

• When possession has been lost
• When possession has been won
• Goalkeeper in possession

When possession has been lost, the instructions are self-explanatory, counter-press. Simple. As for when possession has been won, counter, as we want to utilise fast transitions to score as many goals as possible. As for the goalkeeper, we want him to distribute quickly to also maximise our chances to catch the opposition off guard.

Finally, out of possession. We want our players constantly harrowing the opposition. To achieve this, we need the highest defensive line (DL) and line of engagement (LOE) and extremely urgent pressing. An offside trap is necessary too. Sacchi's teams used to play an incredibly aggressive offside trap, which complimented their aggressive pressing game.

To summarise with a nice piece of visual learning:

Positive:

Attacking:

Spoiler

Disclosure: To be completely honest, when I used the tactics, I used play out of defence for both mentalities. I noticed when I did, I created chances from keeping the ball on the deck at goal kicks, because the opposition team is usually pressing high and we could play through them quickly to create goalscoring opportunities. Also, for the attacking mentality, I only reduced the width to standard because I'm afraid of extremes when it comes to stuff other than pressing and LOE. As will be seen later, my wingers still cropped up in the half space however my fullbacks still maintained width. Finally for the positive mentality, I used a standard passing directness because I was worried more direct will just mean my players will lump the ball forward, but I didn't test my hypothesis. What a great tactician I am.

Structure

Formation

When it comes to structure, first thing we have to decide is the formation. Klopp at Dortmund rarely strayed from his trusted 4-2-3-1, but when it comes to my recreation, I used a 4-4-1-1 2DM to recreate it.

Now I did this for two reasons:

1. Moving my wingers to the M strata meant that they tracked back more often and helped with the defence, but it didn't stop them from being involved in the attacking phase.
2. Moving my central midfielders to the DM strata meant I could use the beautiful segundo volante role.

I also used a 4-4-2 2DM to replicate Rangnick's go to formation when he was in charge of RB Leipzig.

\

Now there is a lot of similarities between the formations, which will help developing familiarity. They're both variations of the 4-4-2, which is the best formation to cover the space on a football pitch, and going back to what good old uncle Marić says about gegenpressing:

Quote

At the same time, they should not stick so close to one another that they neglect to cover enough space. Usually, a good layout in possession and a good shape behind the lost ball go hand in hand.

Play Roles and Instructions:

Let's begin with the business end of the pitch, the attack. For the 4-4-1-1 2DM I used the following roles:

The Pressing Forward (PF) is an obvious one, we want the role that will press the most. Having him on attack will give him a very attacking mentality, which means his only focus on the pitch will be finding the back of the net, which is alright for you main goalscorer. Having the AMC set as a Advanced Playmaker (AP) means he will be treated as a playmaker in phases of play. I know what you might be thinking, duh! Obviously he will be treated as a playmaker, it's in the name. But as @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! mentions, having him as a playmaker means the other players will look for him when they have the ball, which is good if you have an exceptional player with great Player Preferred Moves (PPMs), but if he's quite an average player, you'll be better off sticking him on Attacking Midfielder (AM). The support duty is there so he has a positive mentality, meaning his decision making will be skewed to the riskier side of things but still won't be as single minded as the striker.

The player instructions are simple, for the PF there are no Player Instructions (PIs) required as his presets are enough, but for the AP I went with dribble more and move into channels; the first because the player in my team has great dribbling, agility and acceleration and is a threat with the ball at his feet, the second is because I want him to be in the half-space as much as possible.

For the 4-4-2 2DM, I went with:

I went for a PF duo, one on attack, one on support. The support striker has hold up ball, which will allow players to run up in support from midfield when he gets the ball.

For the midfield for both formations, I went with the following:

As you can see, there are two Inverted Wingers (IW) and a Deep-Lying Playmaker (DLP) and a Segundo Volante (VOL). The IWs are there to cut in and exploit the half-space some more; while they are on attack duty, their mentality is tempered by the look for overlaps Team Instruction (TI). The TI lowers the mentality of the wingers a bit, and increases the fullbacks. Meaning here the IW(A) will have only an attacking mentality, not very attacking like the PF(A).

This is done for 'compactness'; you want the players to be close together, so if they lose the ball, they're all close together to counter-press effectively. Furthermore, when they win the ball back, they're all close together to play some intricate link-up play and one-twos to get up the field quicker.

The PIs for the IWs are sit narrower and roam from position. This allows for more half-space exploitation and gives them license to join the strikers in getting on the end of crosses and through balls.

For the two DMs, I went for two support duties to maintain compactness with positive mentalities. I went for DLP and VOL because they act as a double pivot but also contribute to the final third, the DLP with his passing and the VOL with his dynamism. The same point goes for the DLP here, if you don't have a player of sufficient quality to be a designated playmaker, I would go for Ball-Winning Midfielder (BWM) or Defensive Midfielder (DM) instead.

Food for thought: Setting focus play through the middle in the TIs will allow the DMs to have an attacking player mentality on the Positive team mentality, allowing for more compactness. Going back to what René Marić said in his piece about gegenpressing again (I'm beating a dead horse I know):

Quote

The decisive factor is the overall positioning of the team and their playing style right before attempting to counter-press. The players must play as close to one another as possible so that they can press together as a unit right after the ball is lost – which is a given in short passing football.

Although we're not playing a short passing game, having all the players close to each other by ensuring a 'compact' mentality will help in our cause.

Finally, the defence and goalkeeper:

Let's start with the fullbacks, as you can see they're Complete Wing Backs (CWB) on support, their mentality on support will be attacking due to the look for overlap TI. Why CWB though? Well their hard-coded PIs are lovely, specifically stay wider and roam from position. Stay wider is important because with everyone else in the centre of the pitch, they'll have free reign over the wings and will be free to whip in crosses. Roam from position is great because it'll mean they'll get a chance to really go forward and get into dangerous areas, and nobody marks them. Klopp does that now with Trent and Andy and look how effective they are. If you're not feeling that adventurous or you fullback aren't world beaters, you can use Wing Back (WB) on support with stay wider and they'll still be effective.

As for the centre-backs, just you bog-standard Central Defender (CD) on defend will do. If one of your centre-backs are exceptional on the ball, Ball-Playing Defender (BPD) on defend would be a good option to go with.

For the goalkeeper, Sweeper Keeper (SK) is a must. You'll be playing with a high line, you'll need one to come and clear any balls over the top that your defenders can deal with. Whether he's on support or defend is up to you, if he's great at distribution stick him on support.

Putting it all together

Well you've come this far, well done. I know I wouldn't have the ability to read this mammoth wall of text. Time to see how the formation looks like whole.

4-4-1-1 2DM

4-4-2 2DM

Now it's time for me to do something else other that write about Football Manager, although it won't be as interesting.

Edited March 15, 2020 by AceAvenger

[Vizzini]

Great introduction, looking forward to reading the rest!

[AceAvenger]

2 hours ago, Vizzini said:

Great introduction, looking forward to reading the rest!

Thank you!

I just editted the second post to put the actual tactics in. Next I'm gunna talk about what to look for in players to achieve success in this formation.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Irn Rvd]

2 hours ago, AceAvenger said:

Thank you!

I just editted the second post to put the actual tactics in. Next I'm gunna talk about what to look for in players to achieve success in this formation.

Let me know what you guys think.

Damnnnnnn. This looks awesome. Well done!!

[bdixon]

Brilliant. I was getting bored of possession based tactic so this has come at a perfect time for me. Well done again. 

[vogado86]

I´m gonna replicate the tactic in my Benfica team and later i post the results!

[h3nrique_SEP]

Why CWB's on support instead of attack?

[JAwtunes]

9 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Why CWB's on support instead of attack?

Probably because IWs are on attack duty.

 

[Mutumba]

Great write up, love the detail!

 

Could you perhaps continue this thread by discussing suitable player trais and attributes for the style of play and/or the different roles?  How important is aggression, work rate, pace and so on? What is the most important attribute to have?

[AceAvenger]

11 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Why CWB's on support instead of attack?

 

The CWB is on support because with the Looks for Overlaps TI it'll push the mentality of the player to Attacking, keeping it the same as the IWs. If I just had both the IWs and the CWBs on attack they'll both be Very Attacking and then they'll just lose the ball too often by being overzealous with possession.

As you can see below, this is the mentality of the role with Looks for Overlap

Here is the same role without Looks for Overlap

51 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

Great write up, love the detail!

 

Could you perhaps continue this thread by discussing suitable player trais and attributes for the style of play and/or the different roles?  How important is aggression, work rate, pace and so on? What is the most important attribute to have?

I will definitely do that right now, I was planning on giving an update but I got side-tracked by looking for a potential new save.

Thank you guys for the appreciation, it's lovely to see that I'm not alone in my unhealthy obsession with this game.

[AceAvenger]

Finding the players to implement the style

Having a tactic is all well and good, but without the players with the capacity to carry out the tactic, your efforts will be futile. You need the right kind of players too, players that synergise with the identity of the team you’re trying to build.

How do you decide what kind of players do you need? Well, you need to implement a Club DNA, a set of attributes needed to carry out the tactic you want your players to carry out. Once you’ve done that, you can get a clearer picture of type of player required.

For gegenpressing, I’ve found that you need a team of players who competent in 7 attributes to carry out the intense pressing and counter-pressing needed. Those are:

• Aggression
• Anticipation
• Determination
• Teamwork
•  Work rate
• Acceleration
• Stamina

A lot of those are self-explanatory but there are a few that are more important than what you first might assume.

Aggression is one of the most overlooked attributes, at least for me before I started this save, but in actuality it’s one of the most important. Players with higher aggression will physically contest for the ball more than ones with lower. This is vital for gegenpressing as you want your players to fight for every 50:50. The players I’ve seen winning the ball back from the front the most for me are the ones with the highest aggression.

Anticipation is another undervalued attribute. The description of anticipation is:

 

This is vital for a pressing system; you want your players to be able to predict were the ball is going so they have a better chance of winning it back.

Teamwork is also important because it shows how well players adhere to tactical instructions and put the team above everything else.

Case Study: 1. FC Heidenheim 1846

The team I used to develop this tactic was Heidenheim, in the 2. Bundesliga. They were already a high-pressing, attacking side, the lasting legacy of Frank Schmidt. Schmidt took them from the Oberliga, the German 5^th division, to the brink of promotion to the Bundesliga, but without having to rely on a rich benefactor or an energy drinks company.

I got promoted the first time of asking in 2020 and after two years in the Bundesliga, this is the squad I’ve assembled:

 

As you can see, baring a few exceptions, every player in my squad has a mean value of 13 for those attributes. This level of competency, in my opinion, is needed to be able to execute this tactic at a Top 5 league. This would need to be higher if you want to start challenging for the titles.

How does my team compare to the rest of the league though? Well for work rate and determination we’re 2^nd in the league. The rest of the relevant mental attributes we are pretty average. We came in at 8^th, 6^th and 10^th for aggression, anticipation and teamwork (I don’t know what the bar is doing for anticipation showing it so low) respectively.

As for the relevant physicals, we’re also pretty mediocre, coming 10^th for stamina and 7^th for acceleration.

With this is mind, how did we do?

 

Very well, if I don’t say so myself.

Now this is all important but don’t discount the other attributes. Having players with great work rate and aggression will mean you’ll be winning the ball back more but you still need strikers with good finishing and off the ball and defenders with good tackling and positioning to be actually winning games.

Now I have family coming over, I finally understand what Sartre meant when he said ‘hell is other people’.

[coach vahid]

Just a few questions....

When do you use attack or positive mentality And why... And you talked about the TI used in the part disclosure and play focus through middle... Do you use these TI all the time and do you think its better or more realistic or its just a question of feeling.... 

Its been a long time since i had read such a good article. 

Thank you 👍

[AceAvenger]

2 hours ago, coach vahid said:

Just a few questions....

When do you use attack or positive mentality And why... And you talked about the TI used in the part disclosure and play focus through middle... Do you use these TI all the time and do you think its better or more realistic or its just a question of feeling.... 

Its been a long time since i had read such a good article. 

Thank you 👍

Thank you!

Honestly I just winged it, if I'm playing an inferior team I use the Attacking mentality, if it's 50:50 I went for Positive. If I'm playing against a significantly better team (i.e. Bayern) I drop the mentality to Standard, lower the DL and LOE to higher, remove Look for Overlaps and pray to god I don't get ripped apart.

I do all that because I don't want to give them the opportunity to counter-attack, if they get one chance they're gunna take it.

When we played Bayern at home that year, I was dreading it. They were on a 16 match winning streak under their new head coach Jesse Marsch. I went for that tactic, inspired by the how Jupp Heynckes sent the same Bayern Munich out to beat Barcelona 4-0 in 2013.

The FM Gods were smiling on me.

They dominated the match but they didn't create any clear cut chances (CCCs) and their goal came from Leroy Sane dribbling the entire length of the pitch after getting the ball defending a corner.

This result was very lucky though, when I played them again at home for the DFB-Pokal they won 1-0. In the reverse fixture at the Allianz Arena was a dead rubber game for them and they played their kids, they still won 3-1.

Ninja edit:

Oh yeah as for play out from the back, I use it all the time except for when I'm playing against Bayern or Dortmund. I want the play against those big teams to be as disjointed as possible. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by AceAvenger

[Irn Rvd]

This tactic is great. using the 1 strikers version. I alternate between positive and attacking. Always start on positive. If we are not making chances or it feels like an even game and change to attacking. Alternating between seems to keep the opponent guessing and i start to create chances if the game is a stalemate. I often, come out the blocks at half time for 15 minutes in attacking, this has bagged me 3 goals in ten minutes before lol. 

[Mutumba]

Do you use play out of defence? Its not mention in the OP

[Irn Rvd]

3 hours ago, Mutumba said:

Do you use play out of defence? Its not mention in the OP

yep

[AceAvenger]

18 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

This tactic is great. using the 1 strikers version. I alternate between positive and attacking. Always start on positive. If we are not making chances or it feels like an even game and change to attacking. Alternating between seems to keep the opponent guessing and i start to create chances if the game is a stalemate. I often, come out the blocks at half time for 15 minutes in attacking, this has bagged me 3 goals in ten minutes before lol. 

That's awesome, I'm glad it's working out well for you. What team are you using and which year?

13 hours ago, Mutumba said:

Do you use play out of defence? Its not mention in the OP

Si. I didn't have it to begin with but it helped with creating chances from goal kicks.

[Irn Rvd]

6 hours ago, AceAvenger said:

That's awesome, I'm glad it's working out well for you. What team are you using and which year?

Si. I didn't have it to begin with but it helped with creating chances from goal kicks.

I was pretty deep into leeds united save. seven seasons in I think. I stayed pretty loyal to home grown players and still had two players from OG leeds squad, so I didnt have a world beating team. I usually mix my first teams with two or one luxury players and then the rest hard working but technically gifted, so my squad was perfectly suited to this.

I played progressive possession football 41221 for nearly my whole save but it gets very boring with this years ME. I was bored of winning one nill, or creating two half chances a game, or the opponent skinning four players and scoring from my corner lol. I have only managed in the english prem so not sure if its just that league but the fact that everyone is posting in the forums asking for help on how to play progressive possession football with 1 striker every day means there is something wrong. Most of the youtubers and genuis fm tacticians are all using 442s and 343s as they know 41221/433 are just not working with a positive style of play.

I am using your tactic now with AZ Alkmaar. Will let you know how it goes!

[Irn Rvd]

Any ideas on possible tweaks to the PI or player role of the AP(s). I am sturggling to get a performance out him. The creative cam is usually the most talented player in the team, so im hoping to make some adjustments here. Its possible that he is just being passed by with the move into channels PI but wil test a few tweaks out. Tactic is great but would just like a little more from the player.

[AceAvenger]

6 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

I was pretty deep into leeds united save. seven seasons in I think. I stayed pretty loyal to home grown players and still had two players from OG leeds squad, so I didnt have a world beating team. I usually mix my first teams with two or one luxury players and then the rest hard working but technically gifted, so my squad was perfectly suited to this.

I played progressive possession football 41221 for nearly my whole save but it gets very boring with this years ME. I was bored of winning one nill, or creating two half chances a game, or the opponent skinning four players and scoring from my corner lol. I have only managed in the english prem so not sure if its just that league but the fact that everyone is posting in the forums asking for help on how to play progressive possession football with 1 striker every day means there is something wrong. Most of the youtubers and genuis fm tacticians are all using 442s and 343s as they know 41221/433 are just not working with a positive style of play.

I am using your tactic now with AZ Alkmaar. Will let you know how it goes!

Kalvin Phillips would be a beast in midfield, either in the Volante role or the DLP. Also good luck with AZ, Calvin Stengs is going to be a monster at IW along with Boadu upfront.

3 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

Any ideas on possible tweaks to the PI or player role of the AP(s). I am sturggling to get a performance out him. The creative cam is usually the most talented player in the team, so im hoping to make some adjustments here. Its possible that he is just being passed by with the move into channels PI but wil test a few tweaks out. Tactic is great but would just like a little more from the player.

Honestly, I struggle with that too. If he's a good finisher stick him as a SS with a PF(S) or CF(S) or maybe just put him as an attack duty. Increasing his mentality will have him force the issue more, that might let him get more goals and assists. 

Let me know how your tinkering goes.

[Irn Rvd]

13 minutes ago, AceAvenger said:

Kalvin Phillips would be a beast in midfield, either in the Volante role or the DLP. Also good luck with AZ, Calvin Stengs is going to be a monster at IW along with Boadu upfront.

Honestly, I struggle with that too. If he's a good finisher stick him as a SS with a PF(S) or CF(S) or maybe just put him as an attack duty. Increasing his mentality will have him force the issue more, that might let him get more goals and assists. 

Let me know how your tinkering goes.

Kalvin phillips is the hero of the team. Hes still in the squad and plays volante role for sure lol. He has crap leadership and was 32 in my save but was still the captain and played every game. I couldnt bring myself to get rid of him. He must have a statue outside the stadium by now. 

 

The AP(s) in these tactics is super important for the pressing so we cant really move his position around without losing the integrity of the tactic. I was contemplating changing to a Trequista but I hope it doesnt mean he wont tackle anymore lol. SS in theory should work though as it will add another runner, giving the dlp(s) even more options. This tactic kinda reminds me of the Man u tactic (only with Bruno Fernandes though) so hopefully we can get bruno esk performances from that position lol.

[AceAvenger]

8 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

Kalvin phillips is the hero of the team. Hes still in the squad and plays volante role for sure lol. He has crap leadership and was 32 in my save but was still the captain and played every game. I couldnt bring myself to get rid of him. He must have a statue outside the stadium by now. 

 

The AP(s) in these tactics is super important for the pressing so we cant really move his position around without losing the integrity of the tactic. I was contemplating changing to a Trequista but I hope it doesnt mean he wont tackle anymore lol. SS in theory should work though as it will add another runner, giving the dlp(s) even more options. This tactic kinda reminds me of the Man u tactic (only with Bruno Fernandes though) so hopefully we can get bruno esk performances from that position lol.

Trequartista is a definite no no. The PIs don't lend themselves to gegenpressing at all.

[Sorro]

Fantastic thread. Trying this out with Sunderland, and it's looking very good so far.

Any thoughts on replacing the Segundo Volante with a Box to Box-midfieler (in M strata obv)?

Edited March 20, 2020 by Sorro

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Wonderful thread. Nice work! 

[steakfaced]

1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Wonderful thread. Nice work! 

haha, what is this?

[camoulton21]

Fantastic writing @AceAvenger, the time you took to write all of this really shows in the quality of the content. It was really easy to read and understand your thought process for making the tactic and obviously O-zil's tactics template helped with this. I have a few questions for you as well. Did all the TIs you chose to select in the theory section work as you expected them to when you went to play matches? Or did you find yourself having to make tweaks to get the movements you desired? 

I thought that your post on the type of players that suit this style was very informative also. Which brings me to my next question, when it came to recruiting players for your Heidenheim team how did you go about finding the kind of player?

[RVL76]

22 hours ago, steakfaced said:

haha, what is this?

Hmm. Same guy? Surely not!  

[AceAvenger]

On 21/03/2020 at 00:00, Sorro said:

Fantastic thread. Trying this out with Sunderland, and it's looking very good so far.

Any thoughts on replacing the Segundo Volante with a Box to Box-midfieler (in M strata obv)?

I used to use a BWM(d) and RPM combo in midfield so I don't see an issue with using a B2B. The other midfielder provides the cover while the player with the roams from position PI marauds forward.

On 21/03/2020 at 15:17, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Wonderful thread. Nice work! 

Thank you! Glad to hear your laptop is fixed so you can get back to playing FM. God knows it's a respite with everything that is happening.

22 hours ago, camoulton21 said:

Fantastic writing @AceAvenger, the time you took to write all of this really shows in the quality of the content. It was really easy to read and understand your thought process for making the tactic and obviously O-zil's tactics template helped with this. I have a few questions for you as well. Did all the TIs you chose to select in the theory section work as you expected them to when you went to play matches? Or did you find yourself having to make tweaks to get the movements you desired? 

I thought that your post on the type of players that suit this style was very informative also. Which brings me to my next question, when it came to recruiting players for your Heidenheim team how did you go about finding the kind of player?

 Danke schön! I spent an ungodly amount of time researching this and I'm happy people are finding it useful.

When it comes to tweaking the TIs, I knew what I didn't want to do and just fiddled with it until something worked. For example, I knew I didn't want my passing to be lower than standard so I put that as the threshold. There was very little method to the madness if I'm honest.

As for player recruitment, I looked for the 7 attributes I highlighted earlier, but if I player was lacking in one I still considered him because with a club whos stature is as small as Heidenheim, I couldn't be too picky. Take Tramoni for example.

He's got 6 out of the 7 attributes needed that are over 13, but his aggression is appalling. He's also objectively a good player for his age, with amazing physical attributes. He was also 18 at the time we bought him (01/22) so he will be considered home-grown in the future which is vital because I had no home-grown players of first team quality when I started.

As for where I look for players, I pay particular attention to the II clubs of the big teams, Heidenheim have a reputation for picking up Bayern 'rejects' in real life so I tried to continue the tradition. They have so many high potential players slugging it out in the lower divisions whom you can sign for relatively cheap. I also paid attention to all the relegated clubs at the end of the season, seeing if any of their good players have relegation release clauses I can activate.

I signed Lukas Mai and Luca Unbehaun from Bayern and Dortmund respectively and they're my starting centre-back and goalkeeper. I got Erkan Eyibil for €70k from Mainz II at the start of the save and now he's my main creator in the AP role with a €42.5 million release clause.

[steakfaced]

On 21/03/2020 at 09:17, steakfaced said:

haha, what is this?

Ahhh sorry guys I thought I was on O-Zil's thread Caixa football when I made this response! My mistake

[Irn Rvd]

Ok, so i had to change the tactic slightly, but i manage to get the AM firing on all cylinders. Using Avengers base 42211 genenpressing positive tactic. 

 

                    PF(A)

                    AM(A)

IW(A)                            IW(A)
            DLP(D).   VOL(S)
CWB(S) CB(D) CB(D) CWB(S)
                     SK(S)

 

- the AM has roam from position, takes more risks, moves into channels, dribble more. The players i use here have the ppm, collect ball from deep, so i think that helps too. When he was AP even on attack, he would collect the ball too deep and also very rarely went into the box. Must be a good passer.

- Play out of defense is needed to make chances from goal kicks as mentioned in OG post. I also use work ball into box which is not gegen like, but it stop crossing every single attack and also shots from long distance. 

- dropped the DLP to defend so that the AM has more room to shine and stop counter attacks. Must also be a good passer.

- against god teams, i usually make the cwb fullbacks on attack/support depending on if im at home. Makes the possession in the tactic disappear, but also makes it super counter attacking.

- dropped the passing to standard. Again not very gegen like, but it also lets the team break down stubborn opposition. 

- added low crosses but also had a back up striker who was a target man. left it at mixed when he was playing.

I used this with AZ Alkmaar who are not a bad team and did not loose in the league for 24+ games so far. I have tested against some big teams like napoli and juventus. Was beat both times but controlled the games and created lost of chances. Should have beat them both but the average age of my squad is 20, so i think they buckle under the pressure. Destroyed wolves in the euro cup easily. Testing against man city next in the champions league tonight.

Thanks again for the OG post Avenger, this tactic is awesome.

[Irn Rvd]

2 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

Ok, so i had to change the tactic slightly, but i manage to get the AM firing on all cylinders. Using Avengers base 42211 genenpressing positive tactic. 

 

                    PF(A)

                    AM(A)

IW(A)                            IW(A)
            DLP(D).   VOL(S)
CWB(S) CB(D) CB(D) CWB(S)
                     SK(S)

 

- the AM has roam from position, takes more risks, moves into channels, dribble more. The players i use here have the ppm, collect ball from deep, so i think that helps too. When he was AP even on attack, he would collect the ball too deep and also very rarely went into the box. Must be a good passer.

- Play out of defense is needed to make chances from goal kicks as mentioned in OG post. I also use work ball into box which is not gegen like, but it stop crossing every single attack and also shots from long distance. 

- dropped the DLP to defend so that the AM has more room to shine and stop counter attacks. Must also be a good passer.

- against god teams, i usually make the cwb fullbacks on attack/support depending on if im at home. Makes the possession in the tactic disappear, but also makes it super counter attacking.

- dropped the passing to standard. Again not very gegen like, but it also lets the team break down stubborn opposition. 

- added low crosses but also had a back up striker who was a target man. left it at mixed when he was playing.

I used this with AZ Alkmaar who are not a bad team and did not loose in the league for 24+ games so far. I have tested against some big teams like napoli and juventus. Was beat both times but controlled the games and created lost of chances. Should have beat them both but the average age of my squad is 20, so i think they buckle under the pressure. Destroyed wolves in the euro cup easily. Testing against man city next in the champions league tonight.

Thanks again for the OG post Avenger, this tactic is awesome.

Beat Man city away 0-1 with full backs on support. 

[davidmcain]

@AceAvenger outstanding tactic. I had been on FM18 for a while, but with Coronavirus keeping us indoors I moved to FM20. I generally use a 442 (2DM) variant, and came to the tactics forum to get some ideas how to run it in FM20. Ended up finding this which is pretty much exactly how I like to play the game. The idea was to replicate yours, and work back from there, but it's actually a perfect fit (im using the 1AM, 1ST tactic)

I'm currently playing as Leeds United, but am limiting myself to ex players, players who list Leeds as a favourite club, and Home Grown at Leeds players. Have signed one veteran CB to help with mentoring, he's yet to play, and probably won't. Lost Nohan Kenneh unfortunately but will try buy him back later. Kept everyone else except Gaetano Berardi who had a poor personality. 

At this stage, I'm 1st after 10 games (8 wins, 2 draws), and into the fourth round of the cup. Absolute highlight was a 3-0 over Liverpool away in the third round. They used first team squad players, but rested 7-8 of their very best. 

Finding the tactic super balanced. Nobody really underperforms, nor does anyone score bags of goals. Will keep you posted, but great work!

 

[OJ403]

Well this is quite probably one of the best threads I've read in a while, in terms of content, structure, logic and the general not condescending (is there a word that means the opposite to condescending? If so thats the one I'm after). So much so I keep coming back. I'm posting this after probably my third rear through. Well done mate on a fantastic thread!

I'm borrowing many of your principles here and applying them to my save, particularly regarding the attributes. I've got an influx of 15-17 year old proming newgens coming in on the cheap from across Europe, taking your attribute guidance into huge consideration. I also play a similar shape (a flat 4-4-2) with similar principles, albeit slightly less gengenpress and more of a regular press, but the principles remain the same and have been very much applied to varying extents.

However the major question is will there be any more updates...?

[AceAvenger]

On 24/03/2020 at 17:47, Irn Rvd said:

Ok, so i had to change the tactic slightly, but i manage to get the AM firing on all cylinders. Using Avengers base 42211 genenpressing positive tactic. 

 

                    PF(A)

                    AM(A)

IW(A)                            IW(A)
            DLP(D).   VOL(S)
CWB(S) CB(D) CB(D) CWB(S)
                     SK(S)

 

- the AM has roam from position, takes more risks, moves into channels, dribble more. The players i use here have the ppm, collect ball from deep, so i think that helps too. When he was AP even on attack, he would collect the ball too deep and also very rarely went into the box. Must be a good passer.

- Play out of defense is needed to make chances from goal kicks as mentioned in OG post. I also use work ball into box which is not gegen like, but it stop crossing every single attack and also shots from long distance. 

- dropped the DLP to defend so that the AM has more room to shine and stop counter attacks. Must also be a good passer.

- against god teams, i usually make the cwb fullbacks on attack/support depending on if im at home. Makes the possession in the tactic disappear, but also makes it super counter attacking.

- dropped the passing to standard. Again not very gegen like, but it also lets the team break down stubborn opposition. 

- added low crosses but also had a back up striker who was a target man. left it at mixed when he was playing.

I used this with AZ Alkmaar who are not a bad team and did not loose in the league for 24+ games so far. I have tested against some big teams like napoli and juventus. Was beat both times but controlled the games and created lost of chances. Should have beat them both but the average age of my squad is 20, so i think they buckle under the pressure. Destroyed wolves in the euro cup easily. Testing against man city next in the champions league tonight.

Thanks again for the OG post Avenger, this tactic is awesome.

Thank you for your contribution! That's what I want most is to see a discourse about about how to go achieving this philosophy of play. Who do you have in your team right now? AZ have such a wealth of talented youngsters in their team.

21 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

Beat Man city away 0-1 with full backs on support. 

That's quality mate, City are so good on this game, at least on my save. They're also phenomenal in real life.

13 hours ago, davidmcain said:

@AceAvenger outstanding tactic. I had been on FM18 for a while, but with Coronavirus keeping us indoors I moved to FM20. I generally use a 442 (2DM) variant, and came to the tactics forum to get some ideas how to run it in FM20. Ended up finding this which is pretty much exactly how I like to play the game. The idea was to replicate yours, and work back from there, but it's actually a perfect fit (im using the 1AM, 1ST tactic)

I'm currently playing as Leeds United, but am limiting myself to ex players, players who list Leeds as a favourite club, and Home Grown at Leeds players. Have signed one veteran CB to help with mentoring, he's yet to play, and probably won't. Lost Nohan Kenneh unfortunately but will try buy him back later. Kept everyone else except Gaetano Berardi who had a poor personality. 

At this stage, I'm 1st after 10 games (8 wins, 2 draws), and into the fourth round of the cup. Absolute highlight was a 3-0 over Liverpool away in the third round. They used first team squad players, but rested 7-8 of their very best. 

Finding the tactic super balanced. Nobody really underperforms, nor does anyone score bags of goals. Will keep you posted, but great work!

 

That is such a good idea for a save, could you show us what your team is looking like now?

4 hours ago, OJ403 said:

Well this is quite probably one of the best threads I've read in a while, in terms of content, structure, logic and the general not condescending (is there a word that means the opposite to condescending? If so thats the one I'm after). So much so I keep coming back. I'm posting this after probably my third rear through. Well done mate on a fantastic thread!

I'm borrowing many of your principles here and applying them to my save, particularly regarding the attributes. I've got an influx of 15-17 year old proming newgens coming in on the cheap from across Europe, taking your attribute guidance into huge consideration. I also play a similar shape (a flat 4-4-2) with similar principles, albeit slightly less gengenpress and more of a regular press, but the principles remain the same and have been very much applied to varying extents.

However the major question is will there be any more updates...?

Thank you so much mate, I'm glad you're finding it useful!

There will definitely be updates. I was thinking of starting another save with a team from East Germany, because all the big dogs from the former GDR are garbage right now, the only East German team in the Bundesliga is RB Leipzig. However seeing how this thread has been received, I'm going to continue until 2026 (I'm at September 2022 right now). That means I'm going to keep going until I play 1 season in the new stadium, which is called Marc Schnatterer Park, named after Heidenheim's most capped and highest scoring player (who was also a beast in the first season with me but since he was 34 his attributes dropped like an anvil). The goal is to win a piece of silverware to christen the new stadium.

[Tcufrog]

@AceAvenger Great read!  I'm playing with 1860 Munchen and have taken them to the Bundesliga but have struggled thus far to find a consistent tactic to get them over the hump.  I like the idea of sticking to a German ideology of play with a German side, as it seems to suit long term save plans.

Question on the two tactics, is there a reason you've created two?  Which tactic do you use when, and why do you use it?  Thanks for all this great info!

P.S. I loaned Rhian Brewster from Liverpool as well, excellent player who consistently banged in goals for me. Good call!

Edited March 25, 2020 by Tcufrog

[AceAvenger]

1 minute ago, Tcufrog said:

@AceAvenger Great read!  I'm playing with 1860 Munchen and have taken them to the Bundesliga but have struggled thus far to find a consistent tactic to get them over the hump.  I like the idea of sticking to a German ideology of play with a German side, as it seems to suit long term save plans.

Question on the two tactics, is there a reason you've created two?  Which tactic do you use when, and why do you use it?  Thanks for all this great info!

The plan was to recreate Klopp's tactic's at Dortmund, Rangnick at Leipzig and Nagelsmann at Hoffemheim/Leipzig but I scrapped I scrapped Nagelsmann and just went for Klopp and Rangnick. I also have a tactic that's similar to what Heynckes used at Bayern when he played away at Barcelona, but it's not that faithful of an adaptation of it.

Keep us updated as you go along, I'd love to see what gems you uncover because the German lower leagues are a treasure trove of good players.

[Tcufrog]

34 minutes ago, AceAvenger said:

The plan was to recreate Klopp's tactic's at Dortmund, Rangnick at Leipzig and Nagelsmann at Hoffemheim/Leipzig but I scrapped I scrapped Nagelsmann and just went for Klopp and Rangnick. I also have a tactic that's similar to what Heynckes used at Bayern when he played away at Barcelona, but it's not that faithful of an adaptation of it.

Keep us updated as you go along, I'd love to see what gems you uncover because the German lower leagues are a treasure trove of good players.

Will do, my first youth intake was great when I was in the 3. Bundesliga. Ever since that, it's bee terrible and I've been in the Bundesliga 4 years now. I'm in 2027 in my save.

[JIPI1]

3 hours ago, AceAvenger said:

The plan was to recreate Klopp's tactic's at Dortmund, Rangnick at Leipzig and Nagelsmann at Hoffemheim/Leipzig but I scrapped I scrapped Nagelsmann and just went for Klopp and Rangnick.  I also have a tactic that's similar to what Heynckes used at Bayern when he played away at Barcelona, but it's not that faithful of an adaptation of it.

Keep us updated as you go along, I'd love to see what gems you uncover because the German lower leagues are a treasure trove of good players.

Could you, by chance, share the Heynckes setup here? It would be quite enriching to the overall theme, I suspect!

 

cheers

[AceAvenger]

16 hours ago, JIPI1 said:

Could you, by chance, share the Heynckes setup here? It would be quite enriching to the overall theme, I suspect!

 

cheers

Ofcourse!

So here is the tactic I use now:

a

As you can see, the mentality was dropped to Balanced and the DL and LOE are only set to higher, while focus play through the middle is also set. I also removed play offside trap. With this system I only half mimiced Heynckes' style of pressing. The differences being is that Heynckes used a man-marking system at Bayern, old habits die hard, and made sure his centre-back followed there man, even though it meant having a staggered defensive line, meaning playing an offside trap was futile. Again referencing uncle Marić:

Quote

As already stated: Dante and Boateng are strong in the air, excellent tacklers, and very fast on their feet – at least in long distance runs. Bayern’s offensive formation in ball possession also requires outstanding coordination, so Heynckes curbed line play (staying on the same horizontal line as it is usual in a back four). The Bavarian defenders still act as a bank and shift in orientation towards the ball, but they use man-marking again and again without provoking offsides.

So in an accurate system, you would select 'use tigher marking' and maybe even play a stopper/cover combination in defence. This would allow a more aggressive, physically dominate centre-half to step forward and stop play, leaving a more mentally gifted, quicker, centre-half sweeping up play. Bayern had Jerome Boateng and Dante do this, both took turns being the stopper and the cover because of their immense physical qualities. This meant they could still play a high line, maintaining the vertical compactness needed to press and counter-press effectively.

Quote

So both situatively man-mark their respective counterparts. Dante stays deeper than his opponent, offside is of no interest – if your defenders are combative and quick, a running duel or tackle 40 yards from the goal is probably more promising than hoping for an offside situation. A maximum vertical space compression is not necessary out of principle.

Also, specifically against Barcelona, Bayern's formation resembled a 4-4-2-0. Their strikers were withdrawn, standing infront of Barcelona's defence and, more importantly, their deep-lying playmakers. They have Xavi and Busquest all the time in the world in deep positions, because if they tried progressing the ball forward, there were met with a great big red wall in midfield.

Quote

Therefore, Xavi and Busquets dropped again and again into safe space. They were then positioned in front of Gomez and Müller who only occasionally pursued them further back. They abandoned the Catalans to the playing vacuum of the defensive structure space and then went mostly back to their position if possible. Then they had a horizontally and vertically enormously compact 4-4-2-0-position into which dangerous passes were hardly possible.

So to get this kind of system, the Team Instructions should be a narrow playing with, a much higher DL but a standard LOE. This will achieve the maximum vertical and horizonal compactness. 

It would look kind something like this:

You could also try playing with a Cautious mentality, and sticking the AM on attack instead of support, meaning the 'front two' will have a positive mentality, and stick on focus play through left and right. This will give the wingers and full-backs higher mentalities, attacking and balance respectively. You wingers will have the highest mentality in the team then, and will be your most adventurous players, which is exactly what Robben and Ribery were with Bayern.

This is all just tactical theory, I have no idea how effective it will be in the game, I've never tried it (apart from the first screenshot which is my go to whenever I play a much bigger team i.e. Bayern). If you guys want to try it, go for it and let me know how it goes.

References (honestly read them if you want to know more about how Heynckes set out Bayern to play):

• Bayern Munich’s pressing in 2012/13 on Spielverlagerung.com
• In-depth analysis: Bayern Munich – Barcelona 4:0 on Spielverlagerung.com

Edited March 26, 2020 by AceAvenger

[felipencntst]

Very, very cool content!

@AceAvenger please write more about the results and the evolution of the system in the following seasons.

 

[KrKAlex]

Congratulations, I really enjoyed the process you put in place to develop your tactic. Same goes for me, I love my wingbacks to be the most important ones in my team with a lot of overlapping (I guess it is because that is my position IRL, and also my playstyle). I am developping my 4231 the same way as you have done: what I want to see IG and how to translate it in the tactics. 

Keep up the good work! 

[AceAvenger]

On the training ground

As the old adage goes, practice makes perfect. Training is something I never looked at in FM until I started this save and honestly it worth taking the time to make sure you set up your training correctly.

I’m going to split this section up into two parts, training for first team players and training for youngsters.

First team

For the first team training, I set up 3 week-long schedules, sensibly named Gegenpress – Attack, Defence and Physical respectively. From their names, you can guess what each schedule focuses on. The Attack schedule looks like the following:

The Defence schedule is:

Finally, the Physical is:

Now some things of note:

• I tried covering all the attacking and defensive sessions except for Defending Disengaged and Attacking Patient, purely because they’re not sessions that lend themselves to gegenpressing.
• Transition – Press is the most used session, with 2 sessions in every schedule. This is because it covers all the attributes needed for gegenpressing perfectly

Now the thought process behind this is that I wanted to cover all the sessions I wanted in a 3-week schedule. I made it so each week has a different focus, and I did this so I can prepare for each match in a 3-week period differently.

For each 3 weeks, I determine which of the games I’m a favourite in, which of the games I’m the underdog and which of the games are 50:50. For the game I’m the favourite for I pick the attacking schedule, because it has the attacking movement and attacking shadow play sessions which will increase my potency in attack. For the game I’m the underdog, I pick the defending one for the same reason but on the defensive side. The physical schedule covers both attacking and defending shadow plays as well as teamwork, which is perfect for a 50:50 game.

If there is an international break in the 3-week cycle, I put the physical preparation there, and if there is a week with two games in it, I use the pre-existing gegenpressing schedule if they’re two easy games or the pre-existing tactical schedule if they’re two difficult games.

I do this because the pre-existing schedules automatically adjust for multiple games in a week, and I can’t be bothered to make schedules that take this into consideration. I specifically use the tactical one for the tough weeks and it has all the shadow plays to better prepare for the upcoming match, at the expense of training sessions that could improve the players.

Make sure you do reduce the workload for the weeks with multiple games in them. You might have the urge to keep your players training a lot so they can improve more, but for the first team, match practice is more important that training to improve your players. So if you keep them fit and playing more, they will improve further.

Youth Training Set-Up

At Heidenheim, I only have an U19 set up, without a II club. For players under 18, training is more important than match practice, so it’s worth while taking the time out to take control of the training.

The method I use was based on TIPS model that Ajax use, which stands for:

• Technique
• Intelligence
• Personality
• Speed and movement

It is a method of judging their players, but Espen Høgli over at passion4fm.com base his youth training schedule on it. He made 3 schedules, Technical Skills, Intelligence and Speed and Movement, which I kindly downloaded and adjusted to fit what I want to achieve.

Here are the 3 schedules:

Technical Skills:

Intelligence:

Speed and Movement:

Now setting up the schedules is a bit different, what I do in a 4-week month is schedule Technical Skills and Intelligence once, while putting Speed and Movement twice. Why is that you may ask?

Well, on top of the fact that training is more effective on a player under 18, they also improve a lot quicker, because the gap between his current ability (CA) and his potential ability (PA) is large. Another thing is that improving a players physical attributes ‘costs' more CA points than improving his technical or mental attributes. Knowing all this, I try and maximise my number of physical sessions so that the youngsters’ physical attributes will increase quickly, taking advantage of the higher rate of increase to allow for radical change.

[Irn Rvd]

That looks amazing Avenger. Great work. 

I have some bad news though, My AZ Alkmaar save has been lost in the cloud. I have had to start again. So will definitly use your training schedules once i pluck up[ the courage to start again.

[AceAvenger]

36 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

That looks amazing Avenger. Great work. 

I have some bad news though, My AZ Alkmaar save has been lost in the cloud. I have had to start again. So will definitly use your training schedules once i pluck up[ the courage to start again.

That's such a shame! Are you thinking of going back to AZ or going to try something new?

[Irn Rvd]

6 minutes ago, AceAvenger said:

That's such a shame! Are you thinking of going back to AZ or going to try something new?

I cant play as them again because I was doing so well. All the youth players were coming through progressing tremendously. I was in second season.
- 2 wins away from winning the league. Also playing against ajax, who were just behind me on last day of the season.
- Quarter finals of champions league. was about to play the second leg against city at home. (0-0 draw at the etihad).
- Only signings were armini and almada, signed them both to long long long ass contracts without buy out clause finally.
- board just bought the stadium.
- Golden generation coming through the youth apparently. So sad.

- Just signed Jude bellingham on a free with only 20k wages a week. 

- After 1.5 years in mentoring, the youth 5 star players finally got their determination up to scratch.

- managed to get all team leaders with 17+ determination. We were set up perfectly for the next ten years. I wasa gonna try not sign a player again for three seasons.


Trying to find the right club to try next while I wait in hope for steam to recover my game. It seems like this has happened to many people over the last few days. Wishful thinking I know!

Do you have any recommendations for my next club? It took me weeks to find AZ. I like teams that:
- Are in europe.

- have a capable youth recruitment or its pointless.
- have good enough mentors.
- decent rep so you can sign promising players.
- works within a budget.

The dutch teams are great for these parameters as they have a high rep and dont get much tv money, so you have to make money from europa/champs and players sales. I was thinking a french team as I would be too sad to play AZ in holland.

[Zemahh]

Fantastic read, keep it up! 

[AceAvenger]

57 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

Do you have any recommendations for my next club? It took me weeks to find AZ. I like teams that:
- Are in europe.

- have a capable youth recruitment or its pointless.
- have good enough mentors.
- decent rep so you can sign promising players.
- works within a budget.

The dutch teams are great for these parameters as they have a high rep and dont get much tv money, so you have to make money from europa/champs and players sales. I was thinking a french team as I would be too sad to play AZ in holland.

Braga are a great option, and if you load the original database you'll still have Trincao.

Edited March 29, 2020 by AceAvenger

[Irn Rvd]

1 hour ago, AceAvenger said:

Braga are a great option, and if you load the original database you'll still have Trincao.

Thats good. Will have a look into them now. Thanks.

[Tcufrog]

@AceAvenger Excellent training guides!  How are you setting up preseason?