Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This is a rather poor attempt at some sort of follow up to @crusadertsar topic on his Young Devils save where initially he went down the route of a form of replication of Marcelo Bielsa. As i stated in his thread i had taken his initial idea then added a few different tweaks to how i saw Bielsa's Athletic Bilbao side set up (or at least an attempt).

I stuck with the 4-1-4-1 formation as i felt it gave me a solid base to defend from then with a combination of roles, i managed to add an attacking spark to the tactic with a few added TI's also. Before the new patch i did tightly mark every striker i come up against as some way of negating the over the top through ball but since the patch I have noticed i havent needed to add these instructions (though i do add them against the best sides), and have maintained a level of success as the attachment pics should show.

Now being honest i dont get much time to play so takes me a while to get through seasons and also for the last so many years i end up losing interest in a save so therefore need to give myself tactical concepts to work from for example a replica Bielsa tactic etc.

I hve recently floated the idea (though seems stupid because of the success ive had with the 4-1-4-1) of swapping to a 3 at the back system with the idea of attempting to replicate the current Borussia Moenchengladbach side under the very impressive Marco Rose where he is managing to mix decent possession style football with verticality and speed which is producing so terrific football if anyone is able to catch any highlights of them.

I have added my 3 at the back formation to the pics with an attempt to see if @Rashidi or @Experienced Defender @crusadertsar or anyone in general has any ideas on how i can improve the 3-4-2-1 tactic ive started to sometimes use. The general idea of the tactic is to have good ball players keep the ball but the ability to play vertical quickly which i sort of am doing but not enough then the 3 upfront  having a central attacker and 2 players alongside him who move into channels and play last line football for the quick transition (but this is definitely something im not mastering at all)

Anyway sorry for my rambling and i basically wanted to commend @crusadertsar on his initial tactic again and show people who may be searching for an attacking style that the 4-1-4-1 im playing really is producing some great results and produces fun football and if i can find a way with my basic understanding of the game anyone can, and then also ask or engage in conversation about the potential of the 3-4-2-1 as a way of adding extra options especially in line with attempting some form of replication of Marco Rose.

https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/tactical-profiles-a-stampede-in-gladbach/

https://statsbomb.com/2019/10/borussia-monchengladbachs-high-speed-attack-is-dominating-the-bundesliga/

https://redbullhub.net/2020/02/04/analysis-rb-leipzig-secure-last-minute-point-versus-borussia-monchengladbach/

 

2020-02-21 (1).png

2020-02-21 (5).png

2020-02-21 (6).png

2020-02-21 (9).png

2020-02-21 (3).png

2020-02-21 (4).png

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mdougal Thank you for the mention and commendation :) I will need to go back to my 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 love soon. I got really distracted lately but the last patch is kinda forcing me to go back to basics. 

I'm intrigued by your tactic idea as I have been a big fan of strikerless tactics ever since Guido Strikerless blog started. I would need to take more time to analyze your roles and team instructions more closely. Through a quick glance it looks very promising. But don't you think it will be rather crossing heavy with two wingbacks on attack? Also if they are going to charge up the field and cross (which is basically what attack duty tells them) who will they cross to with no traditional striker? The midfield will have hard time catching up to receive the crosses.

Edited by crusadertsar
Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things stick out with your strikerless 343...

1) You're pressing (and counterpressing) urgently, with a high defensive line, but standard line of engagement, and no offside trap. It seems like you're begging BPDs and DLPs to play over the top;

2) Add to that, you're playing a flat backline, with no "cover."  I prefer either having the central CB on "cover" with the outside pair on "defend," or, since you're not using a DM, playing the central CB on "stopper" and having the outside pair on cover;

3) You have two CMs and both of them roam. Maybe that works if you're playing wide, or hoofing it long to a TM, but with your formation and TIs, it seems like you're asking to get countered right through the middle. There's no one "anchoring" your midfield;

4) Also, there's no "playmaker." It seems you could kill two birds with one stone switching the Mezzela (which seems out of place to me) with a DLP;

5) Lastly, not a suggestion, so much as a thought, but I can't help thinking it'd be really interesting to see what an enganche could do in that #10 spot.  

Edited by XuluBak
Link to post
Share on other sites

@XuluBak good suggestions. But just a small point. You cannot play offside trap and how a mixed duty backline like one on cover and one stopper, ect. They all need to have matching duties to stay inline to properly execute the offside trap. Anyway that's how offside trap supposed to act in real life.

Edited by crusadertsar
Link to post
Share on other sites

@XuluBak To be completely honest and probably very amateurish the 2 midfield roles were basically a copy of the central 2 in my 4-1-4-1 which have worked really well but I take your point and I definitely don’t want to encourage a down the wing and cross tactic as it’s not what I’m looking for with the possible change in tactic

@crusadertsar what you say about the 2 wingbacks again isn’t what I’m ideally looking for I guess was more my lack of knowledge on the game by thinking without a natural wide player in the team in midfield or attack then I had to go for the wingback attack route. Maybe the IWB could work better but I’m always slightly concerned about the space a wingback leaves in behind let alone with the tendency to stay inside?

This is really a strange thread for me to ask about really because in truth the 4-1-4-1 is working really well as you can see by the table sitting 3rd after 31 games with Southampton but as I said I guess without a challenge of replicating something I’ve seen in real life I can get slightly twitchy 😀

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

@XuluBak good suggestions. But just a small point. You cannot play offside trap and how a mixed duty backline like one on cover and one stopper, ect. They all need to have matching duties to stay inline to properly execute the offside trap. Anyway that's how offside trap supposed to act in real life.

Fair point. Admittedly have no idea how the game mechanics of it work. I was more trying to convey that neither is happening, than both aren't happening, which was my concern, especially combined with the standard line of engagement. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well an update of sorts on the tactic. I finished 3rd in the league with Southampton and were the leagues highest goal scorers with Danny Ings finishing top goal scorer in the League

 

Anyone strutting creating  chances and scoring goals really should consider trying this as a base tactic and then choose your own instructions from there as I have found it creates a lot of chances and plays mostly attacking football

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minuti fa, mdougal ha scritto:

Anyone strutting creating  chances and scoring goals really should consider trying this as a base tactic and then choose your own instructions from there as I have found it creates a lot of chances and plays mostly attacking football

Which one? 4-1-4-1 or the 3 defenders version? Thx!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4-1-4-1. I haven’t managed to get the 3 defenders working as I lose defensive stability and somehow just keep the ball without any real attacking intent

The 4-1-4-1 works really well tho and after struggling for ages to find a tactic that looks good to watch as well as efficient I would really recommend anyone dropping their wide forwards down a strata to the midfield and use instructions from there as since I did that my wide players have been unplayable at times

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/02/2020 at 14:16, mdougal said:

The 4-1-4-1. I haven’t managed to get the 3 defenders working as I lose defensive stability and somehow just keep the ball without any real attacking intent

The 4-1-4-1 works really well tho and after struggling for ages to find a tactic that looks good to watch as well as efficient I would really recommend anyone dropping their wide forwards down a strata to the midfield and use instructions from there as since I did that my wide players have been unplayable at times

What PI did you use on the wide players? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 29/02/2020 at 14:21, mdougal said:

607733343_2020-02-21(8).thumb.png.b33dcd9245905ee51cd5062cef9adbb7.png1819914140_2020-02-21(7).thumb.png.499bff76ea4bad55fac65eef9a94100d.png

Could you post heat-map of positioning for the starting eleven from a match? I'm curious to see the average position of the wide-men and the mezzala in this setup.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/03/2020 at 20:05, xHoffefan said:

Hey this tactic is working really well for me, but I wonder, do you also have PI's for the other positions?

Hi

Depending on opposition I sometimes tweak the ball playing defenders PI’s but in the main the rest are pretty much as they are

I have also found if I tightly Mark and strong tackle every striker or best player of the opposition it works really well although I’ve recently started to leave that

I finished the season 3rd with the highest amount of goals scored in the league and Danny Ings top goal scorer so the tactic is still working well for me

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/03/2020 at 11:00, ralala said:

Could you post heat-map of positioning for the starting eleven from a match? I'm curious to see the average position of the wide-men and the mezzala in this setup.

Yes sorry for the late reply I will post 2moro when I’m at my computer

If I remember correctly the wide left player is quite high and relatively wide and the wide right player is more central

The mezzala in my team gets into so many goal scoring positions just doesn’t take them all that much so I think the role works but maybe a better suited player would have more effect

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...