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if LFC weren't overpowered before, certainly are now.


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just started a new file with new patch and LFC are doing incredible. Averaging just over 30 shots a game, last game they had 48. Yet to concede a single shot. teams can't even get the ball off them. anyone else experiencing this or is it just this file? i'm praying it is just this save

i had to edit this because people don’t like to read and think I’m complaining about it. This is NOT an complaint. I just wanted to check if this is happening to most saved games or not. If this was happening every time then I think it would be an issue. No issue here, just amazed 

Edited by RDF Tactics
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1 minute ago, gonefading said:

Pretentious. Just no. They won most of their games by an eyelash.

hmt8UxW.png

Still, one goal conceded in the last 11 (or so?) matches. Early season, I would agree, but other than the Wolverhampton match, Liverpool have had mostly control of the matches in the league. So the _results_ are quite comparable.

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9 minutes ago, XaW said:

Isn't this pretty close to real life this season?

And just because it’s happened in real life, doesn’t mean it should be replicated. What LFC are doing now isn’t something that’s easily done and something that happens often. And like @gonefading said, some of their games were pretty close

on FM, they’re getting 40+ shots in more than half their games so far. Newcastle had 0 shots all game

i mean, I’ve never seen Arsenal do the unbeaten on FM, City don’t dominate games like they did last year. LFC aren’t blowing teams away every game in real life. Controlling maybe, but not blowing teams away. 9 games in they’ve scored 40+ goals

Edited by RDF Tactics
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1 minute ago, XaW said:

Still, one goal conceded in the last 11 (or so?) matches. Early season, I would agree, but other than the Wolverhampton match, Liverpool have had mostly control of the matches in the league. So the _results_ are quite comparable.

They only won two games by a margin of at least four goals. In the OP's example they won their first seven by at least and mostly more than four goals. So again: no.

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Just now, RDF Tactics said:

And just because it’s happened in real life, doesn’t mean it should be replicated.

Isn't this exactly was a simulator is supposed to do?

1 minute ago, RDF Tactics said:

What LFC are doing now isn’t something that’s easily done and something that happens often. And like @gonefading said, some of their games were pretty close

on FM, they’re getting 40+ shots in more than half their games so far. Newcastle had 0 shots all game

Hey, there might be issues with Liverpool on the latest db, I don't know, but you would expect Liverpool to be the best team this season, based on their real life comparison.

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2 minutes ago, XaW said:

Isn't this exactly was a simulator is supposed to do?

Hey, there might be issues with Liverpool on the latest db, I don't know, but you would expect Liverpool to be the best team this season, based on their real life comparison.

If that was the case, every new file, LFC would and should dominate the league easily? I don’t think the whole point in FM is to replicate what’s happening in real life because then theirs hardly any point in user players lol. 
 

but I don’t know if it’s an issue or just this file. I wouldn’t even had said anything if they won all games, a couple 4-0s involved, but not literally every game. I expect them to be the best, but isn’t PL supposed to be the toughest league too? I get it’s happening in real life, but it’s a one off, not usually you see 1 team in the prem a complete different level than the rest 

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3 minutes ago, Federico said:

How come they play Newcastle twice and both EPL games in such a short time?

Never noticed that haha. But the new patch included the winter break. So I’m guessing that has something to do with it. It’s the same with me, I played Norwich on the 28th Sept, and got them again before the new year starts 

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18 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

If that was the case, every new file, LFC would and should dominate the league easily? I don’t think the whole point in FM is to replicate what’s happening in real life because then theirs hardly any point in user players lol. 
 

but I don’t know if it’s an issue or just this file. I wouldn’t even had said anything if they won all games, a couple 4-0s involved, but not literally every game. I expect them to be the best, but isn’t PL supposed to be the toughest league too? I get it’s happening in real life, but it’s a one off, not usually you see 1 team in the prem a complete different level than the rest 

Of course not every file, but I would expect them to be around the top in most saves the first season. The point is to replicate real life when the user is NOT intervening. As in, if you play in a different league and the transfers aren't impacting the Premier League, then the ideal way is to replicate real life. If you are playing a team in the league, then of course all bets are off because you will impact the league differently than the AI managers. But the level should be around the same, unless you've played with the editor of course, then everything goes.

I'd say that this level is as highrolling as they should, because the opposition isn't the best teams in the league, so no one would be surprised if they won all those matches, so a normal run should be similar, perhaps a draw vs Everton or Spurs. Lowrolling would a couple of losses and perhaps drawing away to Palace. All of those are within what I would say would be "acceptable", though your run and losing to Everton and Spurs and drawing to Palace would be the outliers of that normality.

In general Man City and Liverpool have dominated the last couple of years, and were well ahead of the rest last season as well. So I'm not sure how far back we can look at things to find what is "usual" or unusual" in the PL nowadays.

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Interestingly, on FM's simplistic Level of data, the majority would actually Question how much in Control Liverpool would be. They unleash just 16 shots per game (3rd in the league, City Clock in at 20) whilst conceding almost 10 (3rd, ditto). 

Conceding no shots at all in-game would Sound either way curious. :D 

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3 minutes ago, likesiamesefish said:

So we have the most dominant team in the PL ever and people are complaining they're dominating the PL on their saves.

Seen it all now.

It's not about that they are dominating. And it's certainly not complaining. It's about how they are artificially dominating by an unrealistic margin. You simply cannot deny that Liverpool won most of their games by an eyelash. It's simple logic and there's proof. Why do you ignore it?

Looks like you haven't seen anything. Sorry, but I have to put it this way.

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7 minutes ago, gonefading said:

It's not about that they are dominating. And it's certainly not complaining. It's about how they are artificially dominating by an unrealistic margin. You simply cannot deny that Liverpool won most of their games by an eyelash. It's simple logic and there's proof. Why do you ignore it?

Looks like you haven't seen anything. Sorry, but I have to put it this way.

It's the start of a new season and seems to me the only problem you guys have is they've scored too many goals against a very low standard of opposition and they haven't conceded enough shots (which didn't lead to goals)...

Rather than me 'not having seen anything,' I think this thread and people moaning about something like this are looking way too hard for reasons to criticise the game.

Seriously, this is the smallest sample size imaginable and Liverpool have basically won every game all season irl so clearly they are going to be dominant on the game.

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1 hour ago, likesiamesefish said:

So we have the most dominant team in the PL ever and people are complaining they're dominating the PL on their saves.

Seen it all now.

Who’s complaining? I asked is this happening on other saves or is it just this save. That’s all. If everyone was experiencing this then it would obviously be a problem. 

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's a run of 7 games. I'd like to see what happens over a season, from multiple saves.

In my save they are 3rd in the league approaching November

It’s still going on lol P30 W27 D2 L1

They have both Alisson and Adrian top 8 in clean sheet table. Combined they have 21 clean sheets in 30 games.

considering it’s not happening in every file, it’s not a issue then

 

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Lingard at United has sored 5 goals in the last 8 matches on season 1 in my current save. Now that is unrealistic. 

I never got a screenshot and have now binned the save (I know, I know, believe me or not :D ) but on one of my early saves AI controlled Liverpool had only dropped 2 points after 22 games in the first season. The dropped points? A 1-1 draw at Old Trafford which gave me a little smile at the time as mirroring real life you couldn't get much closer. 

Edited by Jibby123
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4 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

It’s still going on lol P30 W27 D2 L1

They have both Alisson and Adrian top 8 in clean sheet table. Combined they have 21 clean sheets in 30 games.

considering it’s not happening in every file, it’s not a issue then

 

They actually lost a league game? Clearly a bug, they are way underperforming compared to real life.

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5 hours ago, Valleyg said:

Ridiculous. Liverpool have finished 3rd, 5th, 1st, and 3rd in my current save. It's a game. Everyones save will play out differently. Get over it.

Get over it? Lol do you and other people actually read or excuse to try shut someone down on the internet. Chill man lol

simply asked a question, is anyone else experiencing this?! Yes it’s happening in real life, does not mean it’ll happen again and again and again. So just chill, if you read, I don’t have a problem with it, but if it was happening across every save then clearly an issue. Which it’s clearly not. So clearly no issue. 

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4 hours ago, Jibby123 said:

Lingard at United has sored 5 goals in the last 8 matches on season 1 in my current save. Now that is unrealistic. 

I never got a screenshot and have now binned the save (I know, I know, believe me or not :D ) but on one of my early saves AI controlled Liverpool had only dropped 2 points after 22 games in the first season. The dropped points? A 1-1 draw at Old Trafford which gave me a little smile at the time as mirroring real life you couldn't get much closer. 

😂😂 yeah Lingard profile was one I looked at first after the update as I thought I was going to see a decline in attributes because I thought FM were very generous with it. But nope. David James is another one, my team can never tackle him 😂

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3 hours ago, s1111 said:

They actually lost a league game? Clearly a bug, they are way underperforming compared to real life.

😂 believe they lost to Villa too. But ended P38 W35 D2 L1. Since that post, they went on to win every game only conceding 3 (2 was in one game which they won 7-2) , finishing scoring 121. I think they’ve found an exploit 😂

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This is normal in FM. English teams were always favoured and overpowered. Just take a look at Arsenal an Manchester United in last 10 FM's. They are not even close to best European teams in last 10 years, yet in FM they were always incredible.

It is similar with Liverpool now. ( even atm they are really the best team in the world )

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23 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

This is normal in FM. English teams were always favoured and overpowered. Just take a look at Arsenal an Manchester United in last 10 FM's. They are not even close to best European teams in last 10 years, yet in FM they were always incredible.

It is similar with Liverpool now. ( even atm they are really the best team in the world )

I guess the game can’t win. Either overpowered or it’ll be too easy 🤣 but yes, I’m currently Arsenal and once you get Ozil (who’s stats are way too high imo and I support Arsenal) and Auba performing then you can steam roll most teams 

but all my years playing FM, never seen the computer win 35 games out of 38 and scoring 121 in the process. Usually those numbers when you find an “exploit” 

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16 hours ago, gonefading said:

It's not about that they are dominating. And it's certainly not complaining. It's about how they are artificially dominating by an unrealistic margin. You simply cannot deny that Liverpool won most of their games by an eyelash. It's simple logic and there's proof. Why do you ignore it?

Looks like you haven't seen anything. Sorry, but I have to put it this way.

You can absolutely deny that Liverpool have won most of their games by an eyelash. They have been the dominant side in absolutely every match they've played. They've won half their games by at least 2 goals; as per the set of results you, yourself, posted up. Winning by at least 2 goals in half their matches doesn't look like "most of their games" being won by "an eyelash".

Then there's the fact that a basic fundamental of football is that it's easier to defend and score on the counter attack than it is to attack and score while you've got the opposition set up in an organised defence. A team who spends the majority of the match in control would - all other things being equal - be at a disadvantage. This is why weaker teams set up to counter attack... Because it gives them the tactical advantage. The better team has to attack because they're the ones who are more likely to be competing for the title or European qualification and because they're the better team more often than not they're able to break down that defence at some point... Which is what Liverpool have done. A team controlling possession and only managing to successfully score once or twice, while the opposition have managed to nick one on a counter attack (or not score at all) have not - the majority of the time - won by "an eyelash".

There's also the fact that - as should be clear to anyone who's seen a Liverpool game this season - their performance routinely drops down a gear or two after they score. The simple reading of this situation would be that in previous seasons Liverpool have repeatedly found themselves burnt out as a season has gone on and not been able to achieve what they would have been aiming to. As a result they *conserve energy once they no longer have to press the issue* and fall into the more passive state that allows them to do so. Usually they can maintain (or even increase) a lead doing this but, when they can't, they simply step back up a gear and score anyway.

I'm not just saying all of this to call you stupid for saying something dumb but because it's important that we understand all of the above in order to understand reasons why the problem highlighted in the initial post of repeated 4 to 6 nil wins might be happening.

Does Football Manager fail to give the inherent advantage of playing defensively? Are teams consistently posting much lower shot to goal ratios than we see in real life? Alternatively are teams posting similar shot to goal ratios, but routinely able to take many more shots than they would ordinarily? From personal experience I'd say I see shot totals far beyond what we'd expect to see. You'll also see posts on the board here talking about how defensive tactics don't seem to work this year, although I can't say I've personally gone out of my way to try making a defensive tactic so I don't know if that's a legitimate shortcoming or just people being bad at trying to do so.

Are counter attacks less effective than in real life? Again going exclusively from personal experience I'd have to say so, I very rarely get hit on the break and when my own team are on the break I've seen their conversion rate of clear cut chances generated from counters be absolutely appalling.

Does Football Manager necessitate reserving energy in the same way that real life does? Have the default tactics of Football Manager (or those being used by the player) reflected the change in how Jurgen Klopp (or similar) teams play the game away from the "Gegenpressing" toward this more reserved style? We can't really be sure here because it's still really early into the season in the screenshot posted in the original post. The accumulative burn out won't have kicked in yet and there will have been a full week between matches on a few occasions allowing for recovery. On occasions where Liverpool have either decided to forego energy conservation (see against Leicester City, I'd suggest likely because they viewed Leicester as potentially being a threat if they didn't go all out) or where there's been heavy rotation (like the match against Everton back in December) they've been able to score those sorts of numbers. None of the results posted - individually - are ones that you wouldn't expect to be entirely possible if Liverpool were going all out in the matches in question.

We also have to factor in that - as can be attested by anyone who's managed to win the Champions League with a team like Celtic - Football Manager *really* overemphasises the impact of form on your performances. If you get a good run of wins going you can become practically unbeatable for a prolonged time. So if you get  a start like the one posted in the OP - with the exception of Tottenham the highest expected finish from any of those is Everton's 9th - you have a platform from which to set up a good long run of wins and dominant performances, which will give you the chance to continue dominating.

Essentially speaking Football Manager seems to be able to identify that Liverpool should be able to beat those teams by sizeable margins without conceding but doesn't seem to be able to put in place the parameters that means that, more often than not, it's not a thing that actually happens.

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We will never know this, but I'd love to see whether Things at LFC would actually be repeatable. Not whether they could challenge for the title, perhaps not even whether they could have a Point gap to the second placed, but whether things are repeatable. I personally think that, above of having a great Performance Season -- they also have a bit of the opposite of what Klopp had in his last rotten season at BVB -- luckily for Liverpool. Stuff like that doesn't happen like like that in such leagues. This is a one-in-a-Lifetime Season,.

One Thing is clear, on FM's Level of simplistic data, if the human Manager was Managing City, and the AI Pool, they'd mass accuse the AI of cheating. :D But that's a bit OT now. 

Edited by Svenc
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Il y a 21 heures, nico_france a dit :

They're out of the Top 6 in my save at mid season (with the new update)

Chelsea is top of the league

So...

Liverpool  finished 6th at the end of the first season, which was a real surprise, City won EPL + UCL

 

Il y a 12 heures, Marko1989 a dit :

This is normal in FM. English teams were always favoured and overpowered. Just take a look at Arsenal an Manchester United in last 10 FM's. They are not even close to best European teams in last 10 years, yet in FM they were always incredible.

It is similar with Liverpool now. ( even atm they are really the best team in the world )

An issue for years unfortunately, so many random players with top tier attributes, remember Leighton Baines completely overpowered for years :lol:

Worth mentionning 90% of English "hot prospect" which are completely broken IG and won't make anything, as susual, in the top flight

Edited by nico_france
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1 hour ago, Svenc said:

We will never know this, but I'd love to see whether Things at LFC would actually be repeatable. Not whether they could challenge for the title, perhaps not even whether they could have a Point gap to the second placed, but whether things are repeatable. I personally think that, above of having a great Performance Season -- they also have a bit of the opposite of what Klopp had in his last rotten season at BVB -- luckily for Liverpool. Stuff like that doesn't happen like like that in such leagues. This is a one-in-a-Lifetime Season,.

One Thing is clear, on FM's Level of simplistic data, if the human Manager was Managing City, and the AI Pool, they'd mass accuse the AI of cheating. :D But that's a bit OT now. 

That was kind of my point earlier on. People keep banging on that it happening in real life. Buts it’s a BERY rare thing to dominate like that in the league. Very rare. 
 

it’s not even about them winning, it’s the manner of how they’re winning which made me think they’re overpowered. Smashing teams, averaging 30+ shots a game and averaging 3 shots against a game is crazy stats. If a human player did that and posted, he’d be questioned for cheating lol. 
 

I only posted this because I’ve been playing FM over a decade now, this has NEVER happened for the AI in first season. And it happened to be my first save after new patch so was making sure this isn’t always repeated across all files.

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3 hours ago, nico_france said:

An issue for years unfortunately, so many random players with top tier attributes, remember Leighton Baines completely overpowered for years :lol:

Worth mentionning 90% of English "hot prospect" which are completely broken IG and won't make anything, as susual, in the top flight

There are so many examples. It is not that only English players are overrated but all players in English clubs.

Look at Juan Mata. That guy had 2 good games in last 8 years, and he had insane attributes just because he is in Man Utd.

In earlier Fm's Arsenal youngsters Chambers, Holding, Wilshere at age of 18-19 they were top class even they are not even close to that in real life.

Luke Shaw. Man, that guy was a combination of Maldini and Ryan Giggs.

Edited by Marko1989
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30 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

There are so many examples. It is not that only English players are overrated but all players in English clubs.

Look at Juan Mata. That guy had 2 good games in last 8 years, and he had insane attributes just because he is in Man Utd.

In earlier Fm's Arsenal youngsters Chambers, Holding, Wilshere at age of 18-19 they were top class even they are not even close to that in real life.

Luke Shaw. Man, that guy was a combination of Maldini and Ryan Giggs.

There seems to be some sort of fundamental lack of consistency between stats from different countries. Consider how many centre backs from Spain have stupidly low balance statistics, while centre backs from Germany tend to have really low aggression. It seems like the attributes - and how they should be evaluated - are understood differently from one nation to another, though I couldn't offer any sort of explanation as to why.

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On 21/02/2020 at 18:41, RDF Tactics said:

i had to edit this because people don’t like to read and think I’m complaining about it. This is NOT an complaint. I just wanted to check if this is happening to most saved games or not. If this was happening every time then I think it would be an issue. No issue here, just amazed 

The title of your thread is probably the main reason people think you’re complaining. Saying Liverpool are ‘certainly’ ‘overpowered’ can only be construed as a complaint. It’s like going up to a chef and saying,

Customer : “Chef? This food seemed over-seasoned the last time I came here. It certainly is now.”

Chef : “It’s seasoned perfectly. I don’t understand the complaint.”

Customer : “Oh, you thought I was complaining? No, no, noooo! Haha. Not at all.”

Chef : “Leave me alone.”

 

Edited by Bry
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5 hours ago, Bry said:

The title of your thread is probably the main reason people think you’re complaining. Saying Liverpool are ‘certainly’ ‘overpowered’ can only be construed as a complaint. It’s like going up to a chef and saying,

Customer : “Chef? This food seemed over-seasoned the last time I came here. It certainly is now.”

Chef : “It’s seasoned perfectly. I don’t understand the complaint.”

Customer : “Oh, you thought I was complaining? No, no, noooo! Haha. Not at all.”

Chef : “Leave me alone.”

 

its not like that...at all. People are talking as if they results are normal and should be the norm lol

maybe the seasoning is too much for the customers taste. maybe not to his preference. doesn't mean his complaining. but IF everyone said it was over-seasoned then surely hes on to something? i never once said it was unacceptable or i wasn't satisfied. 

IMO LFC were overpowered before, and this particular save even more so. considering real life results, no complaints BUT doesn't mean it has to happen all the time because it doesn't happen all the time in football. It would've been a complaint if this was happening to everyone on most saves. But its not, so no complaint. 

so nice try with the joke :applause:

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The update is clearly broken. I understand totally the need to upgrade Liverpool so they win the league most first seasons, totally get that. But they've just gone too far with it. On my first post-update save, they've won 9-0 three times in their first 6 Premier League games and won the others 6-0, 5-0 and 5-1.

It's so broken the AI Klopp is mocking the rest of the league. Liverpool's sole signing, one Aleksandar Kolarov has an average rating of 9.67 and four goals in his three appearances. Jordan Henderson is on two hat tricks and seven goals in his five games. They're on course to finish the season with a positive 266 goal difference.

Utter madness.

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Every save is diffrent its more likely that Liverpool win the League but it is far from Broken and if you unhappy you can still change the CA via Editor.

Whats more "annoying" is that City ends up 2nd with 92 points and semi final of CL and Pep gets still fired

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8 minutes ago, GreatMarinho said:

Every save is diffrent its more likely that Liverpool win the League but it is far from Broken and if you unhappy you can still change the CA via Editor.

Whats more "annoying" is that City ends up 2nd with 92 points and semi final of CL and Pep gets still fired

9-0 in three games in 6 seems a little fanciful?

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On 22/02/2020 at 01:07, RDF Tactics said:

It’s still going on lol P30 W27 D2 L1

They have both Alisson and Adrian top 8 in clean sheet table. Combined they have 21 clean sheets in 30 games.

considering it’s not happening in every file, it’s not a issue then

 

Clearly it's unrealistic - they lost.

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I don't think Liverpool could pull off results like that even if they were playing Championship teams.

I don't understand why y'all are giving OP crap when he clearly has a point.

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