Please help with striker issue

[LDP]

I love a 4-1-2-3 DM wide formation (just like Klopps Liverpool) and I mimic the way Liverpool play the best I can.

I use my lone striker as a F9 however have always always struggled to use a Pressing Forward attack in this position. With an F9 I'm happy for Bobby to bag 15 goals a season across all comps however when I play Timo Werner as Pressing Forward I expect a higher return but it just doesn't work for some reason.

I play an attacking mentality with extremely higher tempo, slightly more direct passing and as you probably guessed, with counter press and counter on. I also play the highest possible lines of engagement with standard attacking width. 

Line up

SK sup

Lb: WB att

LCB: BPD

RCB: BPD

RB: WB sup

CDM: DLP def

LCM: BBM

RCM: Mezz att

LW: IW sup

ST: PF att

RW: IF att

Is it because there is no AM? 

Any suggestions to get my PF firing would help, thank you

 

[Experienced Defender]

Okay, let's first present your setup in a more convenient way:

PFat

IWsu                                  IFat

BBM    MEZat

DLPde

WBat    BPD?   BPD?   WBsu

SKsu

Before I move to your mentality and instructions, I want to tell you what IMO is problematic in your setup of roles and duties (besides the fact that this is definitely not how Liverpool play). 

- defensively very unsound (the quality of Liverpool players might offset this to some degree, but still...)

- too many players attacking same areas of space in the final third

- 2 BPDs is also something I don't like, especially when there is a PM in front of them, but okay

To cut a long story short, this is how I would tweak your setup to make it more sensible, both in attack and defense (retaining the PF on attack):

PFat

IWsu                                   IFsu

CAR/BWMsu  MEZat

DLPde

WBat   CDde  BPDde    (I)WBsu

SKsu

Now, let's see the instructions:

mentality - attacking

in possession - extreme tempo, slightly more direct pass

- counter, counter-press

- much higher LOE and much higher defensive line

Here we have an even bigger problem than with your (initial) setup of roles and duties. Again, apart from the fact that this is also a completely wrong interpretation of how LFC play in real life (except for the counter and counter-press, which are okay).

First, mind the effect that the mentality has on everything else. When you play on the attacking mentality, you basically don't need even "just" higher tempo, let alone much higher. The same goes for passing. Especially when you play with a higher or much higher LOE (because you are further reducing the space that your defensive opposition is already looking to deny you).

If you want to sort of "emulate" LFC under Klopp using the Attacking mentality, go with the default tempo and slightly shorter passing. Although Liverpool also tend to play out of defence. 

When it comes to out-of-possession TIs, I would drop the DL to higher (instead of much higher) - again taking the (attacking) mentality factor into account.

The LOE would be standard (to create more space for potential counter-attacks) with a split block added.

So, to summarize - this would be the team instructions I would opt for in a primary (starting) tactic:

Attacking mentality

- slightly shorter passing and play out of defence (potential tweaks: be more expressive and/or work ball into box)

- counter and counter-press

- higher DL, standard LOE and offside trap

Player instructions - split block with 4 or 5 players

Any questions?

[Perb]

Sorry to capture this thread, but hopefully I'm not the only one wondering.

42 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Player instructions - split block with 4 or 5 players

 

Can you elaborate on split block.
I'm not sure how it works and how you instruct players.
What is the dynamic behind it - How does it influence the players?

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, Perb said:

Can you elaborate on split block.
I'm not sure how it works and how you instruct players

Split block is very simple. Rather than increasing the pressing urgency for the whole team (and thus risk compromising your defensive shape), you tell your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more in their player instructions. So your defenders and more defensive midfielders are keeping their shape while more attack-minded players are putting pressure on the opposition. Which means you are defensively solid, but still not too passive when defending. 

There is a softer version of split block, in which only 2 players are told to close down more (the striker and the most advanced central or attacking midfielder). 

Now, the split block alone is not going to make you defensively solid if the rest of your tactic is unsound. You primarily need to pay attention to your vertical compactness and the balance of roles and duties. Even in-possession instructions can (indirectly) cause defensive issues if your players lose the ball in a dangerous area and/or at an inopportune point during the attacking phase (which usually happens if you ask more of them than they are capable of). 

Hope this helps.

[Sousa20]

23 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Split block is very simple. Rather than increasing the pressing urgency for the whole team (and thus risk compromising your defensive shape), you tell your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more in their player instructions. So your defenders and more defensive midfielders are keeping their shape while more attack-minded players are putting pressure on the opposition. Which means you are defensively solid, but still not too passive when defending. 

There is a softer version of split block, in which only 2 players are told to close down more (the striker and the most advanced central or attacking midfielder). 

Now, the split block alone is not going to make you defensively solid if the rest of your tactic is unsound. You primarily need to pay attention to your vertical compactness and the balance of roles and duties. Even in-possession instructions can (indirectly) cause defensive issues if your players lose the ball in a dangerous area and/or at an inopportune point during the attacking phase (which usually happens if you ask more of them than they are capable of). 

Hope this helps.

"you tell your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more in their player instructions. So your defenders and more defensive midfielders are keeping their shape while more attack-minded players are putting pressure on the opposition. Which means you are defensively solid, but still not too passive when defending."

 

How do I do that ?

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, Sousa20 said:

How do I do that ?

How do you do what? Telling specific players to close down more in their player instructions or something else?

[Sousa20]

19 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

How do you do what? Telling specific players to close down more in their player instructions or something else?

Telling specific players to close down more in their player instructions

[Experienced Defender]

4 minutes ago, Sousa20 said:

Telling specific players to close down more in their player instructions

When you go into the tactic section and click on a player within your formation, there will appear the "Edit instructions" button. Click that button and it will open a screen in which all player instructions can be set.

[Sousa20]

8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

When you go into the tactic section and click on a player within your formation, there will appear the "Edit instructions" button. Click that button and it will open a screen in which all player instructions can be set.

But that's with the ball that they come down more ...
I thought you talked when you didn't have a ball

Edited January 30, 2020 by Experienced Defender
oversized letters

[Experienced Defender]

7 minutes ago, Sousa20 said:

But that's with the ball that they come down more ...
I thought you talked when you didn't have a ball

Close down instruction is when you don't have the ball. You are obviously confusing it with some other instruction.

[Sousa20]

8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Close down instruction is when you don't have the ball. You are obviously confusing it with some other instruction.

What ? 😂😂