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18 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

I’m finding peoples inability to be anything other than binary on issues to be really frustrating lately.

Its possible to think loads of deaths are terrible and that them coming down quickly is great news at the same time.

Its possible to think it’s disgraceful that the NHS has been underfunded and think it’s tremendous what Captain Tom did and want to celebrate it

its possible to not like the government and think it’s a good idea for them to encourage people to celebrate somebody that has given people so much hope

 

Too many people nowadays stick to one side of a story and steadfastly refuse to look the other side of it. And too many people see somebody make a single comment and then assume they disagree with the other side as a result.

The world is a place full of nuance yet for some reason the internet seems to think everything is black and white with no middle ground.

Everybody seems to want to pick a side and have that side define them.

 

PS - I’m referring to Twitter - hadn’t read the posts above this when I originally posted it 

So spot on. :thup:

The "If Trump cured cancer you'd still hate him for it" against the "If Trump murdered babies you'd still love him for it". Some have their opinions on a piece even before it's happened if you add in the catch-labels (Left/Right. Tory/Labour etc etc). 

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1 minute ago, Big Geordie said:

@Mr Adam- as I said above, what Sir Captain Tom did was terrific, but make no mistake - tonight's clap was nothing more than an attempt by Johnson, to garner some positive spin and deflect from over 100k deaths , as well as an under-funded and over-stretched NHS. There is no rock this lot will leave un-turned into trying to misdirect Joe Public. What next - a national bank holiday to honour his passing?

How many more people have to die for the majority of voters to wake up and realize that they are being played for suckers?

But, God forbid the Prime Minister wants to encourage some positivity and optimism rather than wallow and dismay at his mistakes?!?

Celebrating a death of a public figure is only described as spin by people doing their own spinning. It’s universally accepted as something people do.

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1 minute ago, Mr Adam said:

But, God forbid the Prime Minister wants to encourage some positivity and optimism rather than wallow and dismay at his mistakes?!?

Celebrating a death of a public figure is only described as spin by people doing their own spinning. It’s universally accepted as something people do.

Why is Captain Tom's passing more important than the other 100000+ people that have died?  I read somewhere earlier that if we held a moment's silence for each one of that figure, it would take 75 days. It's one thing trying to encourage positivity, but it's also something else to misdirect the public whilst purposely under-funding the service that this man raised money for.

I'm sure the government will continue to hold on to Sir Captain Tom's coat-tails for some time yet.

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4 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

Why is Captain Tom's passing more important than the other 100000+ people that have died?  I read somewhere earlier that if we held a moment's silence for each one of that figure, it would take 75 days. It's one thing trying to encourage positivity, but it's also something else to misdirect the public whilst purposely under-funding the service that this man raised money for.

I'm sure the government will continue to hold on to Sir Captain Tom's coat-tails for some time yet.

I’m guessing you were non-plussed when Sir Bobby Robson died as well right? Loads of old people die.

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Fwiw my wife was in a flood of tears at the news of his passing. She’s a lifelong labour supporter and was the first one out at 6 clapping.

If people are unable to see why his passing has meant a lot to some people then they’re not paying attention to anything other than their own argument.

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1 minute ago, Mr Adam said:

Fwiw my wife was in a flood of tears at the news of his passing. She’s a lifelong labour supporter and was the first one out at 6 clapping.

If people are unable to see why his passing has meant a lot to some people then they’re not paying attention to anything other than their own argument.

Mate I will be honest, I think its bonkers that its even an argument. 

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This guy gave hope to millions of people at a time everyone was down. 

He showed people that ANYBODY can be active - even a 99 year old - at a time when people could easily have hunkered down on the sofa.

He raised 10s of millions of pounds for a struggling service to help others.

But let’s not celebrate any of that because Boris Johnson suggested it first. He’s no more important than anyone else.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

I’m guessing you were non-plussed when Sir Bobby Robson died as well right? Loads of old people die.

Sir Bobby's passing wasn't used as a PR tool by the government at the time, to deflect from a public health *****-show.

Come on, @Mr Adam- you can do better than that! Did you go out to clap, as instructed by Johnson? Did anyone else on here?

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1 minute ago, Big Geordie said:

Sir Bobby's passing wasn't used as a PR tool by the government at the time, to deflect from a public health *****-show.

Come on, @Mr Adam- you can do better than that! Did you go out to clap, as instructed by Johnson? Did anyone else on here?

Yes. I really enjoyed it. Thought it was a great idea. I still think the NHS is massively underfunded and that Boris is a grade A twit 

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I couldnt as im at work, would i have? Probably not, only because im lazy not because of anything political.

Dont see any issue with it though, we all show our support in some way. Mine is working in unsafe environments every night during the whole pandemic... to prop up the government with my taxes :mad:

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Just now, Mr Adam said:

Yes. I really enjoyed it. Thought it was a great idea. I still think the NHS is massively underfunded and that Boris is a grade A twit 

And that's why nothing will change with this lot in charge - as long as the majority of the public are happy with empty gestures. Meanwhile, we roll on towards 110000 deaths.

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Just now, Big Geordie said:

And that's why nothing will change with this lot in charge - as long as the majority of the public are happy with empty gestures. Meanwhile, we roll on towards 110000 deaths.

I don’t think me going out and clapping is going to make me or any of my neighbours any more likely to vote for him next time.

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Imagine if Starmer hadn't - the red tops would have been all over him!

Should be not have a bank holiday to mark Sir Captain Tom's passing? How about a statue somewhere? How about we make him a saint?

Oh look - 150000 deaths now and half of the nurse workforce are off with burnout or mental health issues.  Forget about that - remember Captain Sir Tom!

Edited by Big Geordie
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11 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

Sir Bobby's passing wasn't used as a PR tool by the government at the time, to deflect from a public health *****-show.

Come on, @Mr Adam- you can do better than that! Did you go out to clap, as instructed by Johnson? Did anyone else on here?

No I didn't clap. He's dead and can't hear it...

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5 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

Look everyone here is Sir Keir Starmer with an empty gesture in support of the government 

 

Must be a secret Tory. The evil empire gets everywhere it seems.

Edited by Garrlor
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1 minute ago, Gricehead said:

I was out for a run. Thought it was really nice of everyone to applaud my first appearance back from injury. 

I used to time my runs during the first lockdown for this exact reason. :D 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

Look everyone here is Sir Keir Starmer with an empty gesture in support of the government 

 

Starmer also lied in Parliament today, but i haven't seen BG calling that out. 

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Just now, Gricehead said:

Starmer also lied in Parliament today, but i haven't seen BG calling that out. 

I'm no fan of Starmer, Grice. But if you are keeping count, Johnson is way out in front on this score.

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2 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

I'm no fan of Starmer, Grice. But if you are keeping count, Johnson is way out in front on this score.

and Williamson and Patel and...

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Just now, JJ72 said:

and Williamson and Patel and...

Oh I'm no Tory. I prefer to call out **** on both sides. Its not black and white like @Mr Adamsaid. 

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11 minutes ago, Gricehead said:

Oh I'm no Tory. I prefer to call out **** on both sides. Its not black and white like @Mr Adamsaid. 

Difference is Starmer admitted his 'mistake'. Tories appear to get away with blatantly ignoring their lies.

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15 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

More good news 

 

There never was an earlier study that suggested that the first dose wouldn't provide enough immunity was there?

There just wasn't really any evidence because they didn't trial it with anything longer than a 3 week gap.

I thought the main question was over how much immunity might drop between 3 and 12 weeks, although again I don't think they're expecting an issue here they just don't have any evidence yet.

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I must be missing something - that Guardian article, and the paper it reports on, doesn't give any evidence for extending the second Pfizer dose from 21 days to 12 weeks. It just refutes the claim from the original dataset that the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine is only 51% effective (that headline from a week or so ago). It only looks at efficacy up to 24 days. Doesn't go beyond that.

It even has this paragraph in the paper:

There are a number of weaknesses in the analyses undertaken by the authors of the Chodick et al paper that need to be addressed. Firstly, the reported effectiveness included data from days (13 to 17) when it was apparent that the vaccine was not yet providing much protection and therefore their analyses could not provide any real estimate of the overall effectiveness of a single dose when the second dose was delayed for up to 12 weeks. By analysing effectiveness for each day, the analysis approach presented here overcomes this weakness.

Edited by Astafjevs
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5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

I must be missing something - that Guardian article, and the paper it reports on, doesn't give any evidence for extending the second Pfizer dose from 21 days to 12 weeks. It just refutes the claim from the original dataset that the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine is only 51% effective (that headline from a week or so ago). It only looks at efficacy up to 24 days. Doesn't go beyond that.

It even has this paragraph in the paper:

There are a number of weaknesses in the analyses undertaken by the authors of the Chodick et al paper that need to be addressed. Firstly, the reported effectiveness included data from days (13 to 17) when it was apparent that the vaccine was not yet providing much protection and therefore their analyses could not provide any real estimate of the overall effectiveness of a single dose when the second dose was delayed for up to 12 weeks. By analysing effectiveness for each day, the analysis approach presented here overcomes this weakness.

Yeh I’m not saying otherwise. It’s just good news that after 21 days the efficacy is hopefully much higher than Pfizer thought it was.

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15 hours ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

No we won't, it's flat out crass, that's just a fact.

You just said it was "really good news":

No offence, but I'm blocking you for a while, better for all concerned.

It is good news, because its good in the relative context of what we expected the numbers to be and what they have been historically. Only the sith deal in absolutes

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53 minutes ago, Ackter said:

Am finally back to normal after the vaccine. I imagine most people don't get as ****ed as this from it.

More after the 2nd one it seems. :( Not to worry you or anything. You might have it opposite way around. 

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1 hour ago, Ackter said:

Am finally back to normal after the vaccine. I imagine most people don't get as ****ed as this from it.

Purely anecdotally but it does seem to give quite a lot of people a bit of a kick for a day or two. No idea what the statistics will be on it mind you. 

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1 hour ago, Confused Clarity said:

 

When you put it into this context, it definitely feels positive. Just need this pace to keep up.

Not in Germany. The vaccine campaign has been a complete disaster here. But it was all self-inflicted by an incacapable government, sleeping through the last summer and doing nothing. And when they woke up they were all surprised they were left behind in the vaccine race...

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Not much of a surprise, unless you're the head of test and trace. 

Obviously most mutations will be very very minor but definitely need to keep track of as many as possible to alleviate risk of vaccines not working against them. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Jibby123 said:

More after the 2nd one it seems. :( Not to worry you or anything. You might have it opposite way around. 

Yay.

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14 hours ago, Mr Adam said:

I used to time my runs during the first lockdown for this exact reason. :D 

I remember one bike ride I went on during first lockdown, where coming back we knew we were going to be slightly late by 10 minutes, so it meant we would have to bike through a village during the clap time. Was hoping it would be a village that didn't give a crap, but about 80% of the houses were outside clapping ffs :D Felt proper awkward biking through. Got some dirty looks too :D 

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15 hours ago, Mr Adam said:

But, God forbid the Prime Minister wants to encourage some positivity and optimism rather than wallow and dismay at his mistakes?!?

Celebrating a death of a public figure is only described as spin by people doing their own spinning. It’s universally accepted as something people do.

I would agree that is why the PM is doing it, to encourage some positivity and optimism rather than wallow and dismay at his mistakes. I'd also say that describes a political manoeuvre that lacks any sincerity, and is therefore spin, no?

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Just now, Rafalution said:

I would agree that is why the PM is doing it, to encourage some positivity and optimism rather than wallow and dismay at his mistakes. I'd also say that describes a political manoeuvre that lacks any sincerity, and is therefore spin, no?

Absolutely. But spin doesn't have to be cynical and negative. Leaders spin all the time. 

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15 hours ago, Big Geordie said:

Why is Captain Tom's passing more important than the other 100000+ people that have died?  I read somewhere earlier that if we held a moment's silence for each one of that figure, it would take 75 days. It's one thing trying to encourage positivity, but it's also something else to misdirect the public whilst purposely under-funding the service that this man raised money for.

I'm sure the government will continue to hold on to Sir Captain Tom's coat-tails for some time yet.

Its not more important, but he was a public figure during the early part of the pandemic, and raised a hell of alot of cash for the NHS. We can argue that he shouldnt have to, Government underfunded the NHS etc but he has and got national ( and international) attention for it. 

If you want to clap then clap, if you dont then dont. 

Edited by Paul Bacon
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Right, but you said 

Quote

Celebrating a death of a public figure is only described as spin by people doing their own spinning. It’s universally accepted as something people do.

But this is spin, because Boris doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself. It's not spin to call it spin. (the spin being directed at creating an attitude of isn't it great how we're all in this together and how someone was able to raise so much for our precious NHS, god rest his soul!)

To be clear, the people going out clapping to show their feelings to Cap'n Tom are being genuine, I agree, but the gov/boris is not. 

 

Edited by Rafalution
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The hotel quarantine plan is a ridiculous idea.  

Should just be scrapped and not let anyone in apart from returning UK citizens (who should then self isolate).

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Just now, Rafalution said:

Right, but you said 

But this is spin, because Boris doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself. It's not spin to call it spin.

It was definitely spin to say it was done purely to get people to ignore the fact he's underfunded the NHS. That's cynical spinning in the extreme.

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1 minute ago, Crispypaul said:

The hotel quarantine plan is a ridiculous idea.  

Should just be scrapped and not let anyone in apart from returning UK citizens (who should then self isolate).

Tory businessmen and donors won't have that.

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