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COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic


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You all know I have concerns about these vaccines.  I don't get why you ask why I'd try to find out information on it from key figures in the discussion.

Also, even a racist can tell the truth.  That's a very shallow approach to take to life in general.  

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1 hour ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Pert go into a city wide lockdown after one, yes ONE confirmed Covid case. 

A bit much, probably, but **** me they're going to be back to normal a lot quicker by doing this. 

 

<Snip>

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55877150

 

 

Not if they keep doing it forever. 'normal' will become an endless cycle of mini lockdowns

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16 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Not if they keep doing it forever. 'normal' will become an endless cycle of mini lockdowns

I'm sure you they don't mind going into a Lockdown every 10 months or so it saves a few lives every now and again. 

 

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Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Captain Tom has Covid.

Just thinking, I presume that he would have had his first dose at least of a vaccine?

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1 minute ago, Gizmo7 said:

Just thinking, I presume that he would have had his first dose at least of a vaccine?

The press release says he's had pneumonia for several weeks so not necessarily. Also I can't find any public statement about him being vaccinated which is a bit odd, you'd think it would have been announced if he had.

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Captain Sir Tom Moore, the Second World War veteran who was knighted after raising millions of pounds for the NHS during the UK's first lockdown, has been admitted to hospital with coronavirus.

In a tweet from his official account, his daughter said he tested positive last week and was taken to hospital today for help with his breathing.

 

He is not in intensive care.

She said in a statement that he had been receiving treatment for pneumonia over the last few weeks before his positive COVID test result.

"He was at home with us until today, when he needed additional help with breathing," she said.

 

 

 

looks to me like he’s had COVID for a while - potentially before his vaccination 

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I’d say it’s unlikely Captain Tom has been vaccinated as the vaccine centre for Central Beds, which would cover his village’s surgery, only opened 10 days ago.

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1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Wasn't he in Barbados for some of December as well? 

Over Christmas if I remember correctly.

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563 English hospital deaths reported on Sunday 31st January (compared with 623 last Sunday). 501 within the five days 26th to 30th January. 52 aged 6 to 28 days. 10 aged >28 days (2 in January, 8 in December).

Seven day rolling average at 25th January is currently 757.4 (Last 5 7dra 795, 800.9, 784.6, 772.6, 757.4).

The Highest 7dra of the 2nd wave is currently 800.9 on 22nd January (exceeding that of the first wave - 784.7); the highest single day being 19th January (841)

Regionally, 7dra for 25th January (comparison with 24th January): Mids 151.6 (+0.9), London 147.9 (-7.7), SE 124.4 (-5.2), East 114.9 (+1), NW 89 (-1.1), NE&Y 76.3 (-0.3), SW 52.4 (+2.1). Midlands goes above London

Spoiler

 

16th January was the first day to see >800 deaths. All three of 16th, 18th and 19th January are now over 800 deaths. there were only two days over 800 deaths in the first wave.

Consecutive days above a number of deaths:
200: 93 (29/Oct to 29/Jan) - first wave 47
300: 44 (17/Dec to 29/Jan) - first wave 37
400: 35 (25/Dec to 28/Jan) - first wave 27
500: 25 (4/Jan to 28/Jan) - first wave 21
600: 22 (6/Jan to 27/Jan) - first wave 17
700: 12 (11/Jan to 22/Jan) - first wave 10


Daily peaks in the second wave:

  • NE&Yorks 100 (19/Jan)
  • Mids 160 (24/Jan) +1
  • NW 104 (22/Jan) +1
  • SE 165 (12/Jan)
  • London 179 (19/Jan) 
  • SW 58 (24/Jan) +1
  • East 139 (20/Jan) +2

Top of the list for deaths in the last five days are (limit changed to >=40)

  • Mid and South Essex (62/1975 +45)
  • Frimley (59/1031 +14)
  • Birmingham (58/2151 +11)
  • Nottingham (55/897 +8)
  • East Suffolk and North Essex (51/984 +22)
  • UH Dorset (41/352 +)

Four trusts between 35 and 39 deaths
Five trusts between 30 and 34 deaths
Fourteen trusts between 25 and 29 deaths
Fifteen trusts between 20 and 24 deaths
Sixteen trusts between 15 and 19 deaths
Twenty-seven trusts between 10 and 14 deaths
Twenty-eight trusts between 5 and 9 deaths

146 (-1) of 226 trusts have had deaths in the last five days

 


 

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46 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Mainstream scientific opinion has been warning for years and years that the way we treat this planet and the animals that live on increases the chances of pandemics happening, of new novel viruses jumping across species to infect us. Maybe you find it more comforting to think that it was cooked by up some evil Chinese scientists in a lab but in the nicest possible way, you are wrong, these people you are linking to are wrong and at best deluded, at worst deliberately planting false information in your head. "Great Reset" is a conspiracy theory that was started by the far right and is being spread by far right figures, and again I have to be blunt here, you are wrong to think there is any substance to it. This is nothing to do with liking or not liking opinions, it's about calling out people who are just making stuff up.

IMO, there are some compelling reasons to doubt the origins of this catastrophe. I mean, from the start i saw similarities to Chernobyl's disaster. Government, Chinese in this case, denying everything, silencing everyone until genie was well out of bottle and everything went to ****.

I'm not saying this conspiracy theory is true. I'm saying we don't know 100%. That's why WHO team is in Wuhan right now, inspecting things. I'm almost certain they'll find jackshit, too much time has passed, more than enough for overlord Xi to cover it up. I'm a cynic. Having seen all crap my own government got away with, i'm doubting everything without irrefutable evidence.

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1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Mainstream scientific opinion has been warning for years and years that the way we treat this planet and the animals that live on increases the chances of pandemics happening, of new novel viruses jumping across species to infect us. Maybe you find it more comforting to think that it was cooked by up some evil Chinese scientists in a lab but in the nicest possible way, you are wrong, these people you are linking to are wrong and at best deluded, at worst deliberately planting false information in your head. "Great Reset" is a conspiracy theory that was started by the far right and is being spread by far right figures, and again I have to be blunt here, you are wrong to think there is any substance to it. This is nothing to do with liking or not liking opinions, it's about calling out people who are just making stuff up.

I feel like I read in high school about the chances of a pandemic happening at some point being extremely high and effectively being an inevitability. That's why the whole "who could have known this would happen" stuff annoys me, 'cause yeah sure, nobody knew specifically when it was going to happen and it was always going to be very difficult to handle, but to act like a virus occurring and infecting a load of people was something nobody could have predicted is nonsense. I mean, ffs there's the film Contagion from back in 2011 about a pandemic and it might as well be a 2020 documentary. This was not some wild, crazy idea, it's been a genuine threat for years (possibly decades?)

So yeah, why people think it had to have been made in a lab or any other ******** conspiracy I've no idea. This is just nature and pandemics have occurred regularly enough throughout the whole of human history that any individual one really doesn't need some nonsense theory. Not like they only happen in humans either ffs. 

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8 minutes ago, Constantine said:

IMO, there are some compelling reasons to doubt the origins of this catastrophe. I mean, from the start i saw similarities to Chernobyl's disaster. Government, Chinese in this case, denying everything, silencing everyone until genie was well out of bottle and everything went to ****.

I'm not saying this conspiracy theory is true. I'm saying we don't know 100%. That's why WHO team is in Wuhan right now, inspecting things. I'm almost certain they'll find jackshit, too much time has passed, more than enough for overlord Xi to cover it up. I'm a cynic. Having seen all crap my own government got away with, i'm doubting everything without irrefutable evidence.

What "irrefutable evidence" would you accept, out of interest? 

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Isnt this the 3rd pandemic since 2000? They arent rare, we just got 'lucky' the other times that it killed people quickly before they had chance to spread it

Edited by Paul Bacon
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21 minutes ago, Pukey said:

What "irrefutable evidence" would you accept, out of interest? 

Statement supported by evidence, made by community trusted, independent scientists.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not some conspiracy nutjob. It just that, with my background, watching leading people in my own government getting away with some really shady **** mixed up with my knowledge of CCP methods (most of them similar)... It just irk me the wrong way. Should they say that the sky is blue, i'd have to get out and check.

Had this happened in, let's say France or England, i'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Edit:

To make things clear, i'm not questioning whether or not virus is created in a lab. This was disproved by many people, including one of my good friends, who work in some German lab and wrote detailed articles about COVID.

 

Edited by Constantine
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On 30/01/2021 at 14:31, Rob1981 said:

Stuff down your throat is horrendous.  I had the camera down to look at my stomach a couple of years back, literally had to have two nurses holding me down from each side and felt like I was choking to death.

Rough, isn't it? I was able to cope, but if it had have gone on any longer I would have panicked. I've had it up both ends, and down the throat is 100 times worse.

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4 minutes ago, decapitated said:

 

Does that take into account that going on early studies, even if you get covid after vaccination its often mild and doesnt require hospitalisation? Doesn't mention it in the article

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1 minute ago, Paul Bacon said:

Does that take into account that going on early studies, even if you get covid after vaccination its often mild and doesnt require hospitalisation? Doesn't mention it in the article

4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Have to say, once we're all vaccinated I would be very reluctant to continue putting up with many restrictions.

The telegraph has more details

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/30/exclusive-social-distancing-may-have-remain-place-year/

Quote

The number of people who remain vulnerable to disease will also remain high for much longer than might be immediately obvious, said Dr Moore. The efficiency of the vaccines in preventing severe disease, the time between doses and overall vaccine uptake all add up.

"The vaccines are not going be 100 per cent effective at stopping serious disease. So if you manage to get, say, 85 per cent of people to take it and it turns out to be 90 per cent effective, that's still 25 per cent of people who could die from it, which is a lot of people," he said.

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It depends what bits of social distancing they keep in place, pretty sure things will be relaxed a lot this year but it's possible some rules will stay in place like wearing masks.

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Quote

. So if you manage to get, say, 85 per cent of people to take it and it turns out to be 90 per cent effective, that's still 25 per cent of people who could die from it

That seems a very simplistic take on it. Those 25% (shouldnt it be 15%) will still have some immunity, and probably wont have a severe case of it compared to not being vaccinated

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Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Have to say I don't find that modelling plausible.

Its contradicted by the article I quoted earlier from the Times, so there's no scientific consensus it seems. 

1 minute ago, Paul Bacon said:

That seems a very simplicit take on it. Those 25% (shouldnt it be 15%) will still have some immunity, and probably wont have a severe case of it compared to not being vaccinated

It's not 85% who are vaccinated, but 90% of the 85% who were vaccinated. He does say that that, that 90% success rate is about avoiding serious cases (hospitalisation/ICU stays) rather than death.

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2 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Have to say I don't find that modelling plausible.

I'm willing to bet the modelling holds up but lots of important assumptions about the data are in the actual text of the publication. 

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2 minutes ago, decapitated said:

Its contradicted by the article I quoted earlier from the Times, so there's no scientific consensus it seems. 

It's not 85% who are vaccinated, but 90% of the 85% who were vaccinated. He does say that that, that 90% success rate is about avoiding serious cases (hospitalisation/ICU stays) rather than death.

Ah misread it. I think Boris will have a hard time getting people to follow restrictions after the vast majority have had the vaccine. Will be pressure from all sides to open up ( there is already)

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2 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

Ah misread it. I think Boris will have a hard time getting people to follow restrictions after the vast majority have had the vaccine. Will be pressure from all sides to open up ( there is already)

I think you are right. People will wonder what the point is if everyone is vaccinated and the restrictions are still in place. I imagine a complete opening wouldn't happen until the summer at the earliest when the younger cohort are vaccinated.

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32 minutes ago, johnhughthom said:

I've had it up both ends, and down the throat is 100 times worse.

If Michael Scott was on OTF he’d be having a field day right now.

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20 minutes ago, johnhughthom said:

Knew somebody would grab the low hanging fruit. :D

Well that is one way to encourage a quick retraction from the throat I guess ;) 

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1 minute ago, Cobbler said:

Hi Scientists.

No we won't be 'social distancing until 2022'. no matter how many fancy graphs you draw.

Kind Regards,

Humans.

I hope we don't either, but I can see a scenario where if we get to 1500-2000k deaths a day after opening up post-vaccine, people are more accepting of that. I'm not convinced things will be that bad though, but then again I've been wrong many times during the pandemic era.

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2 hours ago, Bliss Seeker said:

I'm sure you they don't mind going into a Lockdown every 10 months or so it saves a few lives every now and again. 

 

If you never want the economy to recover it's a great idea

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2 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Mainstream scientific opinion has been warning for years and years that the way we treat this planet and the animals that live on increases the chances of pandemics happening, of new novel viruses jumping across species to infect us. Maybe you find it more comforting to think that it was cooked by up some evil Chinese scientists in a lab but in the nicest possible way, you are wrong, these people you are linking to are wrong and at best deluded, at worst deliberately planting false information in your head. "Great Reset" is a conspiracy theory that was started by the far right and is being spread by far right figures, and again I have to be blunt here, you are wrong to think there is any substance to it. This is nothing to do with liking or not liking opinions, it's about calling out people who are just making stuff up.

You guys really are very shallow and assuming when it comes to reading my posts.  I don't mean that as an insult.  I like you CJ, and don't have anything against you at all.  It's just very frustrating.

Just because I post the Maher discussion, does NOT mean that I believe it is a Chinese hoax.  Can you get that through your heads?  Can you?  It's literally the news.  What is "news"?  It's literally what is happening in the world.  Can you get that?   Can you?  If I post a news article about a bank robbery, am I a bank robber?  Do I condone robbery then?  If I am scared or against robbery, should I not let my neighbors know that one happened down the street?  Does that help them out?

You can write this stuff off, but that's a mistake.  People wrote off Trump in 2016, then he became President.  They continued to write him off because he spouts nonsense on a daily basis, and guess what, somebody at the capitol lost their life due to being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher, inspired by the same guy who got written off and heads turned away from.  If people had taken things more seriously, this might have been avoided.

The term "Great Reset" came specifically from the WEF meeting in 2020.  It wasn't simply "started by the far right".  I don't know where you are getting that from.  It's also been all over the news recently.

The Great Reset is the name of the June 2020 50th annual meeting of the World Economic Forum (WEF) bringing together high profile business and political leaders convened by the Prince of Wales and the WEF[1] with the theme of rebuilding society and the economy in a more sustainable way following the COVID-19 pandemic.[2] In her keynote speech opening the dialogues, International Monetary Fund director Kristalina Georgieva, listed three key aspects of the sustainable response—green growth, smarter growth, and fairer growth.[3][2][1]

A speech by Prince Charles at the launch event for The Great Reset, listed key areas for action—similar to those listed in his Sustainable Markets Initiative, introduced in January 2020. These included the re-invigoration of science, technology and innovation, a move towards net zero transitions globally, the introduction of carbon pricing, re-inventing longstanding incentive structures, rebalancing investments to include more green investments, and encouraging green public infrastructure projects.[2]

In June 2020 the theme of the January 2021 51st World Economic Forum Annual Meeting was announced as "The Great Reset", connecting both in person and online global leaders in Davos with a multi-stakeholder network in 400 cities around the world.[4]

According to the New York Times the BBC, The Guardian, Le Devoir, and Radio Canada, "baseless" conspiracy theories spread by American far-right groups, resurged at the onset of the Great Reset forum and increased in fervor as leaders such as the newly-elected President of the United States, Joe Biden and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau[5] incorporated ideas based on a "reset" in their speeches.[1][6]

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6 minutes ago, Analog said:

You can write this stuff off, but that's a mistake.  People wrote off Trump in 2016, then he became President.  They continued to write him off because he spouts nonsense on a daily basis, and guess what, somebody at the capitol lost their life due to being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher, inspired by the same guy who got written off and heads turned away from.  If people had taken things more seriously, this might have been avoided.

Someone lost their life due to being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher because a bunch of people believed the exact same kind of crap you are sharing.

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13 minutes ago, decapitated said:

I hope we don't either, but I can see a scenario where if we get to 1500-2000k deaths a day after opening up post-vaccine, people are more accepting of that. I'm not convinced things will be that bad though, but then again I've been wrong many times during the pandemic era.

This is why the 2nd dose is so important, it gives that longterm immunity and increases the effectiveness by all accounts.

Going on what we have seen in Israel and other early studies, providing we get that 2nd dose done and dusted then even the ones that do still catch covid will only have a mild case of it.

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The issue isn't even whether it's a hoax.  That's why I like what Brand had to say about it because he points this out.  The issue is that we live in a world where people worship money to the degree that when there is a global crisis, and wherever there is tragedy, they put profit, gain, and exploitation above our humanity.  It is undeniable that this situation has been exploited by corporate interests.  That's not because of a conspiracy.  It's just an extension of everything you see on a daily basis, in each and every society around the planet.  Whether it's WAP being the #1 song with the exact same themes, or players having zero loyalty over money, the top teams trying to assume control of the league, Pfizer knowingly getting people hooked on OxyContin, Bannon stealing from the wall fund, Trump's grifting, the recent events in the stock market, on and on.  

And how do you honestly expect to see better from the world when the people at the top act this way, and then the people at the bottom say, "If it were me, I'd do it too."  This is what drives me mad about being alive on this planet.

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5 minutes ago, Analog said:

Just because I post the Maher discussion, does NOT mean that I believe it is a Chinese hoax.  Can you get that through your heads?  Can you?  It's literally the news.  What is "news"?  It's literally what is happening in the world.  Can you get that?   Can you?  If I post a news article about a bank robbery, am I a bank robber?  Do I condone robbery then?  If I am scared or against robbery, should I not let my neighbors know that one happened down the street?  Does that help them out?

 

It doesn't but sharing it legitimises it in the eyes of some people. Even if it's roundly ridiculed in it's discussion. 

The Trump pantomime was a great example, Farage another hasbeen always has been a good example of this too.  They air their views and people believe them because they are not being rebutted (and also because the opposing side has some inherent credibility issues themselves).

It's literally what's happening in the world, but people's attention spans are short, and not always open to critical thinking when it comes to headlines. 

When you share something happening like an article about a "Chinese hoax", that's markedly different to an article about a bank robbery. 

People come predispositioned with morals, thoughts and their ideas, and are much more open to manipulation to what is happening vs an obvious event that is immoral. 

Some people don't look at a bank robbery story and decide to become bank robbers, but they might look at a story about a conspiracy theory or hoax and mistake this for truth.

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1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Have to say I don't find that modelling plausible.

I'm struggling to work out why cases would go up over the summer in the scenario where they are stating social distancing rules (such as rule of 6) are in place. We literally just had a summer where we saw that cases can be kept down by those very measures.

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2 minutes ago, Cobbler said:

Someone lost their life due to being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher because a bunch of people believed the exact same kind of crap you are sharing.

And if other people had taken THAT seriously, it might have been avoided.  Again, I don't get this reaction.  

If my neighbors are forming a militia below me, then I want to know about it, whether they are delusional or not, and I'd want other people to know about it as well.  What are you supposed to do?  Be silent in case one of them joins the militia?  What kind of logic is that?

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