Weight of attributes per role (and general spreadsheet geeking)

[XaW]

Just now, BadAss88 said:

That's the problem! I have Thomas Delaney who is perfect for a B2B role, but when I look at the numbers he would be more suited to the DLP-d role, which in my mind isn't correct!

Same with Marco Reus, Julian Brandt, Jadon Sancho and Thorgan Hazard they are all better suited for the W-s role according to the numbers instead of the IF-a role.

How do I interpretate that?

That specialist roles are harder to fill.

If you want a IF-A role, a player might have better attributes for a winger, but that doesn't mean you should play one if you tactic elsewhere is based on IFs.

[OlivierL]

4 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:

That's the problem! I have Thomas Delaney who is perfect for a B2B role, but when I look at the numbers he would be more suited to the DLP-d role, which in my mind isn't correct!

Same with Marco Reus, Julian Brandt, Jadon Sancho and Thorgan Hazard they are all better suited for the W-s role according to the numbers instead of the IF-a role.

How do I interpretate that?

The scores for my libero position are very low. So i pick the best libero with the highest score as a central defender and highest DNA score.. that my best libero.

So i have a DMC and WBR as my first and second libero and they are doing a great/good job (in iceland).

[BadAss88]

Just now, XaW said:

That specialist roles are harder to fill.

If you want a IF-A role, a player might have better attributes for a winger, but that doesn't mean you should play one if you tactic elsewhere is based on IFs.

But I use both roles in my tactic, that's my problem! 

[Braumiller]

Ok, here is my current spreadsheet I am using.

Braumillers Role Ability Analysis v2.xlsm

 

Sheet updated to v2 on 1/8/2020 - fixed;

• Club DNA calculation (division now by 14 and not 12 - thanks @EnigMattic1!)
• Conditional formatting fixed on DR sheet
• Updated PPM sheet to handle full Player Stats list
• Updated calcs on PPM sheet to handle blanks
• Updated calcs on all sheets for player name to handle blanks

 

Sheets rundown....

temp - simply where I copy and paste the data from the web page that FM exports the data to.  I can manipulate the columns a little (I move the positions column out the way - I should just fix my view! lol)
Player Stats - The only place you need to edit anything!  Paste in your player name and attributes.  Then fill in the positions grid, as this feeds every other sheet (except PPM).  The Club DNA column is my first crack at identifying a base set of position agnostic attributes I'd like all players at my club to be good at.
DL thru FC - gives a quasi percentage value for role ability (*) for each eligible player in the position - if you want to see how all players score, change the 0 to a 1 in cell A1 of that sheet
PPMs - This is based on data from 3 or 4 FM versions ago, and I do not recall the thread or blog I used as the basis of this (or I would give credit - if anyone recognises it, please let me know and I will edit in credit here!).

(*) - this is purely stat driven and is meant as a thought provoker for myself, not for making decisions - it ignores personalities, height and a swathe of other in-game factors

The conditional formatting on the positional sheets is driven by the B2 cell in the Player Stats sheet.  That is the ability score that the formatting starts at.

The conditional formatting on the PPM sheet is the grid in the AU & AV columns

Feel free to use and abuse this.  Copy and paste is our best friend  

Hope it helps some 

(if you notice any bugs, let me know!  probably best via PMs to avoid any thread clutter)

Edited January 8, 2020 by Braumiller
punctuation

[Tiger666]

Well that's me doing nothing for the rest of the week at work. Cheers guys.

[Hovis Dexter]

1 minute ago, Braumiller said:

temp - simply where I copy and paste the data from the web page that FM exports the data to.  I can manipulate the columns a little (I move the positions column out the way - I should just fix my view! lol)

A tip - you can save time by using your spreadsheet to open the web page instead of copying and pasting. Separately, looking to forward to playing with this

[EnigMattic1]

It's at time like this I'm glad I don't have a job 

Gives me something to look over as I rip my teams apart. 

Cheers guys! 

[EnigMattic1]

8 hours ago, Braumiller said:

Ok, here is my current spreadsheet I am using.

Braumillers Role Ability Analysis v1.xlsm 576.13 kB · 6 downloads

Sheets rundown....

temp - simply where I copy and paste the data from the web page that FM exports the data to.  I can manipulate the columns a little (I move the positions column out the way - I should just fix my view! lol)
Player Stats - The only place you need to edit anything!  Paste in your player name and attributes.  Then fill in the positions grid, as this feeds every other sheet (except PPM).  The Club DNA column is my first crack at identifying a base set of position agnostic attributes I'd like all players at my club to be good at.
DL thru FC - gives a quasi percentage value for role ability (*) for each eligible player in the position - if you want to see how all players score, change the 0 to a 1 in cell A1 of that sheet
PPMs - This is based on data from 3 or 4 FM versions ago, and I do not recall the thread or blog I used as the basis of this (or I would give credit - if anyone recognises it, please let me know and I will edit in credit here!).

(*) - this is purely stat driven and is meant as a thought provoker for myself, not for making decisions - it ignores personalities, height and a swathe of other in-game factors

The conditional formatting on the positional sheets is driven by the B2 cell in the Player Stats sheet.  That is the ability score that the formatting starts at.

The conditional formatting on the PPM sheet is the grid in the AU & AV columns

Feel free to use and abuse this.  Copy and paste is our best friend  

Hope it helps some 

(if you notice any bugs, let me know!  probably best via PMs to avoid any thread clutter)

This may be a stupid question with an obvious answer (it's 2am, I'm on my second can of Rockstar and elbow deep in spreadsheets) but why do you divide by 12 when you are looking at 14 different attributes?

[Braumiller]

2 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

This may be a stupid question with an obvious answer (it's 2am, I'm on my second can of Rockstar and elbow deep in spreadsheets) but why do you divide by 12 when you are looking at 14 different attributes?

Easy answer would be by mistake   Which position / role?

[Andros]

just as a thought: why not separate key and secondary and then see what that shows you?  This may help your analysis.

 

For example:

 

I have downloaded a tactic for FM19 that explains key and secondary attributes that are suitable for the tactic in the eyes of the tactic's creator.  

 

For Full Back (just a quick selection of players) the scores are as a percentage:

                               Key                  Secondary

Gomez                    74                        66

Fabinho                   73                       70

Alexander-Arnold   68                       68

Robertson                73                       73

Moreno                    72                        66

Henderson               77                        74

 

I am wondering if also separating the key and secondary attributes into technical, mental and physical might offer something too.

 

	FB	Key Total	Tech	Men	Phy	Sec Total	Tech	Men	Phy
Gomez		74	73	73	75	66	70	62	None
Fabinho		73	70	72	75	70	69	71	None
Alexander-Arnold		68	68	70	66	68	70	66	None
Robertson		73	70	74	71	73	70	75	None
Moreno		72	70	68	78	66	68	64	None
Henderson		77	70	81	74	74	73	75	None

This would tell me that Alexander-Arnold needs to bulk up a bit to play the role, Gomez needs to improve his Off the Ball or I need to forget about him in that role unless there is an injury crises, and Moreno may need brain surgery!  I don't know if this too much info as the purpose of this thread might be to reduce the amount of data to look at, but I thought I would put this out there.

I am now also seeing perhaps a reason why the eds mention there are limitations to this.  I mean Henderson is my 2nd best centre back as well as my best full back according to this method!

Edited January 8, 2020 by Andros
Sorry for the large space at the bottom, I can't seem to erase it... must be due to me trying to copy and paste before...

[EnigMattic1]

5 hours ago, Andros said:

just as a thought: why not separate key and secondary and then see what that shows you?  This may help your analysis.

 

For example:

 

I have downloaded a tactic for FM19 that explains key and secondary attributes that are suitable for the tactic in the eyes of the tactic's creator.  

 

For Full Back (just a quick selection of players) the scores are as a percentage:

                               Key                  Secondary

Gomez                    74                        66

Fabinho                   73                       70

Alexander-Arnold   68                       68

Robertson                73                       73

Moreno                    72                        66

Henderson               77                        74

 

I am wondering if also separating the key and secondary attributes into technical, mental and physical might offer something too.

 

	FB	Key Total	Tech	Men	Phy	Sec Total	Tech	Men	Phy
Gomez		74	73	73	75	66	70	62	None
Fabinho		73	70	72	75	70	69	71	None
Alexander-Arnold		68	68	70	66	68	70	66	None
Robertson		73	70	74	71	73	70	75	None
Moreno		72	70	68	78	66	68	64	None
Henderson		77	70	81	74	74	73	75	None

This would tell me that Alexander-Arnold needs to bulk up a bit to play the role, Gomez needs to improve his Off the Ball or I need to forget about him in that role unless there is an injury crises, and Moreno may need brain surgery!  I don't know if this too much info as the purpose of this thread might be to reduce the amount of data to look at, but I thought I would put this out there.

I am now also seeing perhaps a reason why the eds mention there are limitations to this.  I mean Henderson is my 2nd best centre back as well as my best full back according to this method!

It could be done that way I guess, but my skills are minimal so I'm going on the theory of 'all required stats are of equal importance'. 

If I was more clued up in spreadsheets and formula, I may try it but, as it stands, I have stuff on one sheet, @Braumillerhas across two (God, mine looks a mess).

With regards to Henderson being your best full back, at the moment, Firmino is my best 'No Nonsense Centre-Back. Seems strange but it's not like I'm going to play him there anyway. I'm mainly using that area of my sheets for retraining at a younger age anyway. 

[Braumiller]

Updated my spreadsheet to v2 - https://community.sigames.com/topic/510157-weight-of-attributes-per-role-and-general-spreadsheet-geeking/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-12216805

More people downloaded v1 than I anticipated 

Nothing earth-shatteringly different in v2, change list posted in the link above - I just get a little OCD if I notice something wrong / off 

 

[EnigMattic1]

14 minutes ago, Braumiller said:

Updated my spreadsheet to v2 - https://community.sigames.com/topic/510157-weight-of-attributes-per-role-and-general-spreadsheet-geeking/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-12216805

More people downloaded v1 than I anticipated 

Nothing earth-shatteringly different in v2, change list posted in the link above - I just get a little OCD if I notice something wrong / off 

 

I know you said you got it from a different thread/blog, but how does the ppm sheet actually work? 

[Tiger666]

16 minutes ago, Braumiller said:

Updated my spreadsheet to v2 - https://community.sigames.com/topic/510157-weight-of-attributes-per-role-and-general-spreadsheet-geeking/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-12216805

More people downloaded v1 than I anticipated 

Nothing earth-shatteringly different in v2, change list posted in the link above - I just get a little OCD if I notice something wrong / off 

 

Just been playing about with v1. Very nice work, appreciated.

[Braumiller]

49 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

I know you said you got it from a different thread/blog, but how does the ppm sheet actually work? 

Identical to the player roles.

The Player Roles have their relevant attributes identified in game, the PPM relevant attributes were laid out in a blog or thread post by the author, based on their opinions.  I agreed with the majority of their opinions, so used it as the basis for creating the PPM sheet  

It is an even 'grayer' rating than the Player Roles (which are by no means black and white to begin with) and should be used as an idea generator, imo.

[EnigMattic1]

1 hour ago, Braumiller said:

Identical to the player roles.

The Player Roles have their relevant attributes identified in game, the PPM relevant attributes were laid out in a blog or thread post by the author, based on their opinions.  I agreed with the majority of their opinions, so used it as the basis for creating the PPM sheet  

It is an even 'grayer' rating than the Player Roles (which are by no means black and white to begin with) and should be used as an idea generator, imo.

Think I found the article, I will take a look and see what I can come up with. 

This is fun. 

[EnigMattic1]

Well, I've still got to do the formula for another 30 positional average ratings and then it will be on to the ppm's. Probably going to look at training after that. See if I can pull the data from a training calculator spreadsheet I have. 

[Rumple43]

I've just stumbled across this post after it's been dormant for a while, wanted to say thanks for all the chat and great ideas. I've downloaded @Braumiller's excel sheet and set about having a play with it to suit my own needs.

Just wanted to say thanks to all that contributed to the discussion as for me, it was certainly of use!

[BadAss88]

I have found this article https://mikaelinhofm.com/2020/05/20/the-concepts-of-current-and-potential-ability/ very intrestring

especially this table

It could be used for the weight of attributes in the specific roles..

[hoffspur]

Just stumbled across this today, probably going to spend way more time playing around with it and trying to adapt it to FM21 than I should. If I make any breakthroughs, I'll be sure to post them here. 

[samdiatmh]

49 minutes ago, hoffspur said:

Just stumbled across this today, probably going to spend way more time playing around with it and trying to adapt it to FM21 than I should. If I make any breakthroughs, I'll be sure to post them here. 

just open up the editor and it pretty much tells you how the attributes are weighted now - like there's literally no guesswork anymore

all the attributes are listed in one place, with a "weighting" depending on the position, and then how the game will scale it based on the CA that you've listed it as

 

same for staff as well

[hoffspur]

1 hour ago, samdiatmh said:

just open up the editor and it pretty much tells you how the attributes are weighted now - like there's literally no guesswork anymore

all the attributes are listed in one place, with a "weighting" depending on the position, and then how the game will scale it based on the CA that you've listed it as

 

same for staff as well

That's great to know, thanks!