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Leicester 4231 Gegenpress lacking goals


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I'm in to my second season with Leicester (finished an expected 9th last season and wanted to really kick on this season). I used a gegenpressing tactic as a base last season, and also had a (4 5 1) counter attack tactic for bigger teams and when winning. I usually switch between a Positive and Cautious mentality, depending on whether home/away.

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The issue is predominantly a lack of goals. Haaland has only scored once this year, and Vardy is yet to score (after 12 games). The whole team has only managed 11 goals. We're relying heavily on Gray, and he wasn't even originally supposed to be in the starting 11. 

Is there something fundamentally flawed with the tactic? Or could the inconsistant results be because of something else (ie. Pereira has low morale because I blocked a move to Tottenham in the summer)?

Any help would be appreciated, and let me know if there is any other info which would be useful.

 

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Well my initial reaction is you have no width on the left so the opposition can defend quite narrow against you with no problems whatsoever. If you had a bit more width then the oppositions right back would be forced to move out and you stretch the defence. Can your players handle the tempo? Positive + Extremely high is very very fast. Coupled with Counter it could see you give the ball away fairly quickly. What's your possession stats like?

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Ok, so I could try making Gray a winger? Possession is fairly mixed (usually higher when home). I've noticed I give the ball away away a lot more than I retrieve it though, from the analysis page. Should I try with a Higher or Slightly higher tempo? 

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This is just my personal preference but I'd just bring it down a notch. As for the width it could be just as simple as swapping Chilwell's role to WB (S) so he runs into the space vacated by Gray as he cuts in. Try it and see what happens.

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The next game started well with a 3-2 win over Tottenham and a Haland hattrick! Unfortunately things haven't been great since then.

We seem to create a lot of chances but our finishing seems so poor. I've also conceded late equalisers in the last three games. Could this be due to to high-intensity setup/players getting tired? 

Beginning to question if gegenpressing is the correct setup for a mid-table team.

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Hello from a Leicester ST holder!

 

TLDR: lower the tempo, less is more, to allow you to get more bodies forward in useful positions. 

I'm going to caveat this advice by saying that I'm terrible at getting goals out of a one striker system. Largely because I like to get my strikers in behind and it doesn't help that 1-v-1 right down the middle is an awful way to score in the current ME. When I play a single striker, I end up with loads of great scoring chances that they just don't put away.

For about the last three iterations, I've been running different versions of 433 based around getting strikers to cross for each other and maximising the output of full backs. Getting the ball to a striker at the back post is one of the most effective ways to score in FM. 

With that in mind, my first two recommendations to you would be to get Chilly and Ricky right as far forward as you can, leave them in the FB strata but I don't see any problem with having them both at WB(A) roles. This works for me on my save. You want as many swinging crosses and cross field passes as they can provide. Give both of them instructions to cross for the far post. 

The key here is to then drop Wilf to an anchor role at DMC to give you some solidity. I wouldn't have him at BWM, chasing the ball around, it's not really how he plays in life either, not unde BR. 

In front of Wilf I have Madders and YT both in the CM strata as MEZ A (Madders) and MEZ S (YT.) Not only do I think this is the best interpretation of how they play in real life (as alternating 8/10s), it's also very effective in FM with them pushing up in to the space left behind the strikers but also pushing wider to make nice triangles with your full backs and wide attackers, also as they do IRL. YT at DLP particularly is a waste, get him forward.

Mez role will still make sure he comes back to defend in position and Wilf will have him covered, I promise. 

All of this requires your centre mids and full backs to be extremely fit as they're bombing forward to support your front line but are expected to return to defend from deeper positions, as Leicester are. 

One key thing I'd stress here is that, whilst I play usually exclusively with the Attacking mentality and I do up my tempo a bit and play in to space, much like you, I don't ever do what you've done and crank it up to ultra high maximum tempo.

That's a bit nuts. You're essentially then kinda getting your players to smash forward SO fast that the midfield are almost irrelevant, which is sad because they're some of your best players. It's probably why Dimi is shining a little for you, because he's too lazy to track back, he's fast and he's always going to be loitering up the pitch when you smash it straight forward. 

Just tone it down a bit to Higher Tempo, a notch up from default, trust me when I say it'll be fast enough.

As for your front line - I want you to do something for me. Go to YouTube and look for highlights of Leicester away at Brighton last week. Look how Vardy creates three chances in a row and where they come from. He's supposedly a single central striker in theory but he operates on the counter by coming wider in to the channels as if an STR. 

He creates three chances in a row (2x Perez, 1x Madders) by getting behind the defence and squaring in to the back post for a tap in. Sadly two are butchered but Perez gets one in. Imagine this to be what you want in FM. 

The best way of setting up I find to utilise this in FM is to ditch the AM strata entirely and play three ST. Maybe a DLF S or CF S with a couple of AF or CF A either side. This would be my interpretation really of how Liverpool's front three play. My problem with AML and AMR is that I can never, ever get them to sit narrow enough to really be wide forwards. I've not liked them in FM for years. Even as inside forwards I find them just bombing up the wing too wide. 

Stick your two forwards at STL and STR and watch the goals flow.

Normally I'd upload a bunch of screenshots and diagrams to illustrate what I'm trying to say but I'm on my phone at work so I apologise if this is an awful post. 

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Ahh thank you so much mate! I really appreciate the detail.

I will give the changes a go, and let you know the results. 

Couple of questions... so you'd recommend having Vardy/Haaland as DLF/CF, with Ikone/Grey as AF/CF either side in a 3 striker system? I do like the idea going forward, but does it leave you vulnerable when transitioning from attack to defence? Do you just leave the 3 strikers to stay up the pitch while defending?

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On 28/11/2019 at 11:34, ibis_rules said:

image.thumb.png.5df5a6fbb20222bb02d5e299fe5ee049.png

 

On 28/11/2019 at 11:34, ibis_rules said:

Is there something fundamentally flawed with the tactic?

I can only give you my honest opinion, which you may agree or disagree with. I think the major cause of your tactical issues is the very gegenpress style you are using. Not many teams can play gegenpress effectively, especially for too long. Leicester is a good team, no doubt about that... but is it good enough for such an aggressive (and at the same time risky) style of football like GP? Even Klopp - a pioneer of gegenpressing football, who btw does have the right players for such a style of play - does not play the all-out gegenpress any longer. It's still an aggressive high-intensity football, but not nearly as much as it was a couple of seasons ago.

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17 hours ago, ibis_rules said:

Ahh thank you so much mate! I really appreciate the detail.

I will give the changes a go, and let you know the results. 

Couple of questions... so you'd recommend having Vardy/Haaland as DLF/CF, with Ikone/Grey as AF/CF either side in a 3 striker system? I do like the idea going forward, but does it leave you vulnerable when transitioning from attack to defence? Do you just leave the 3 strikers to stay up the pitch while defending?

 

I'd have Vardy either left or right, I personally have the central forward dropping back a little to like up the midfield or attack. I'd be looking for someone with a bit more vision and technical ability there. 

 

The STCL and STCR will pick up the majority of goals. 

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Yea I have a few tactics that I use that I made.  The one above that @3runhomer posted.

I also have this one. -> joejccva71s_4-1-4-1_attacking_and_winninga380cabb6488d6a6_136947.fmf

 

And I use this counter attacking one that I made as well when you play tougher teams. -> Joejccva71's 5-3-2 Counter Attack.fmf

 

My username over at FMScout is joejccva71. :)

 

Let me know if any of these tactics work for you.  I can help you make adjustments also.

Edited by extremeskins04
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