somehow struggling with world class players

[radenje]

hello guys, I am having some kind of identity crisiss with my team. I am managing Barcelona in 2024 year, we are playing like horse ****. Rarely having clear cut chances, 5-15 shots on goal, low possession numbers, despite having world class players and instructions to retain ball possession but with higher mentality etc so we can still create chances. I have very good players in every position like Dani Olmo, De Ligt, 32 year old Neymar, Lautaro Martinez, prime De Jong, Arthur, Kai Havertz 25-27 years old. I have no idea how to set up roles for my players to utilize their strengths and squeeze the most out of them. Don't really know how I want to play, I feel like I make too many changes and can't see how they impact the game. I play every match and try to watch them but it gets boring fairly quickly with my players dribbling like mad mans despite having "dribble less" instruction or playing long balls despite having much shorter passing team instrcutions.

 

Please help, I'm losing my mind

 

My tactic here:

 

[craiigman]

Sums up both of my saves so far, one with Bayern and one with Genk. Your system on paper looks fine. I'm still trying to work out what's going on with this ME.

[Mantis Toboggan]

cut down on the specialist roles in your team

 

You shouldn't have a Trequartista, two playmakers and a mezzala all in the same lineup. At most, I would have two of these roles. The other two should be more conventional/ disciplined roles. 

[crusadertsar]

You have three playmakers

[radenje]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

You have three playmakers

I mean, so does Barcelona irl don't they? With Busquets, Arthur, De Jong and Messi.

My Mezzala almost never acts like playmaker, he just goes forward and sits in half space and is ignored most of the time so how do people here call him a playmaker?

Anyway, I changed the roles a little bit to check if three playmakers are the real problem so Arthur is no longer advanced playmaker despite being Xavi regen irl and now he is box to box midfielder, changed the mentality to standard and added work ball into box. 50% ball possession at Camp Nou against Stade Rennais.

Edited November 28, 2019 by radenje

[Robson 07]

Agree with the others that the roles are a bit samey and must keep repeating the same task of looking to create but not able to find anyone making that killer run.  Although the tactic looks unbalanced I definitely wouldn't start over.  With maybe 2-4 simple changes of role you shouldn't bee far away.

[Angus Osborne]

How about Attacking mentality rather than Positive? I'm no guru, but I'm playing 4-3-3 Attacking and Be More Expressive, with only one specialised role at all and it seems to work well.

                        DLF(A)
W(A)                                       IF(S)
                 CM(S)     CM(A)
                      DM(S/D)
FB(D/S)  CD(D)    BPD(D)   WB(S/A)
                        SK(A)

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, radenje said:

I mean, so does Barcelona irl don't they? With Busquets, Arthur, De Jong and Messi.

My Mezzala almost never acts like playmaker, he just goes forward and sits in half space and is ignored most of the time so how do people here call him a playmaker?

Anyway, I changed the roles a little bit to check if three playmakers are the real problem so Arthur is no longer advanced playmaker despite being Xavi regen irl and now he is box to box midfielder, changed the mentality to standard and added work ball into box. 50% ball possession at Camp Nou against Stade Rennais.

I wasn't counting mezzala. Trequartista is a playmaking role. You are playing with 3 ball magnets. Its like having too many creators. Also why  tell a team like Barcelona to dribble less? You are literally full of worldclass dribblers in attack. Let your attack express themselves a little and run at the opposition.

[Experienced Defender]

8 hours ago, radenje said:

hello guys, I am having some kind of identity crisiss with my team. I am managing Barcelona in 2024 year, we are playing like horse ****. Rarely having clear cut chances, 5-15 shots on goal, low possession numbers, despite having world class players and instructions to retain ball possession but with higher mentality etc so we can still create chances. I have very good players in every position like Dani Olmo, De Ligt, 32 year old Neymar, Lautaro Martinez, prime De Jong, Arthur, Kai Havertz 25-27 years old. I have no idea how to set up roles for my players to utilize their strengths and squeeze the most out of them. Don't really know how I want to play, I feel like I make too many changes and can't see how they impact the game. I play every match and try to watch them but it gets boring fairly quickly with my players dribbling like mad mans despite having "dribble less" instruction or playing long balls despite having much shorter passing team instrcutions.

 

Please help, I'm losing my mind

 

My tactic here:

 

By far the biggest problem of your tactic is the presence of as many as 3 playmakers (plus a couple of quasi-PMs, i.e. roles that nominally are not PMs, but have playmaking tendencies). Too many creators and "roamers", but virtually nobody to take advantage of all that creativity and "nail it down". I would suggest removing the AP in the first place. Arthur has pretty decent attributes to play as a BBM (for example) while still utilizing his great creativity to great effect. 

Lautaro can play almost any striker role, but in this particular system - considering all those around him - I would play him in a role that would allow him to express his great capabilities but without overcomplication, Namely - PF on attack duty. 

While Neymar clearly does have what it takes for a trequartista, it does not mean that you have to play him in that particular role at all costs. Maybe an IW on support, in which case he could form a nice partnership with the left-footed Haverz as a mezzala on attack in MCL.

Which logically implies that an optimal role for Olmo in AMR could be a winger on attack with Arthur as the BBM in MCR to support him (and Lautaro) from behind. 

So this is what a potential setup of the front 5 could look like:

PFat

IWsu                                    Wat

MEZat   BBM

Now that we have sorted the front half of the team out, it is a lot easier to determine the optimal setup for the remaining 5/6 guys.

De Yong should remain a DLP, not only  because there is no other PM role left, but also because he is not defensively reliable enough to play a strictly defensive DM role. And he could be even played as a DLP on support duty in order to be more progressive in terms of passing style. That may require one of the fullbacks to be a bit more conservative, albeit not necessarily.

Btw, ter Stegen's attributes suggest that he can be very nicely utilized as a SK (on support duty), so I would rather play him in that role than an ordinary GK.

So here is how I would set it up:

PFat

IWsu                                         Wat

MEZat    BBM

DLPsu

FBsu    CDde   CD/BPDde    IWBsu

SKsu

8 hours ago, radenje said:

my players dribbling like mad mans despite having "dribble less" instruction

This is caused by both the nature of their roles and their player traits (both of which take precedence over team instructions). But with such technically gifted and creative world-class players, I would never ever use the "Dribble less" TI. Why would you want to deprive yourself of something which your players are so good at? I don't think that you should encourage them to dribble more - they'll do that anyway as they see fit - but there is no reason to prevent them from taking advantage of their dribbling skills either. 

An instruction I would add - especially now that there aren't so many fancy and exotic roles up front anymore - is Be more expressive (to help them break down defensive opposition more effectively). Work ball into box is also an option if you want to encourage them to be a bit more patient in the final third (instead of shooting and/or attempting speculative passes at any given opportunity). 

In transition, I would remove the "Distribute to CBs" TI, because you already have the "Play out of defence" turned on (in addition to much shorter passing). 

Finally, counter-press as well as more urgent pressing could prove too risky, given that you don't have many (enough) "workhorses" in your team (at least among these 11 guys).

Good luck! 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Experienced Defender

[radenje]

I know they all are world class dribblers, but while watching the game I saw that we are losing ball too often because of poor dribble attempts especially by Neymar or De Jong. That's why I wanted them to rather look for the pass option instead of just bombing forward with the ball and losing it.

[rockpie]

28 minutes ago, radenje said:

while watching the game I saw that we are losing ball too often because of poor dribble attempts

OK so analyze the specific situations where this happening.

Are they receiving the ball deeper with a lot of defenders sitting in a low block between them and the goal? If so, the aim is to get them to receive the ball with less defenders to beat when dribbling rather than to stop them dribbling at all. How can we achieve that? How can we draw more defenders out of position?

Or are they receiving the ball in good positions and dribble themselves into trouble because they don't have enough pass options around them? If that's the case, the aim is to get them more support so that they don't have to carry the ball for so long.

Edited November 28, 2019 by rockpie

[radenje]

25 minutes ago, rockpie said:

OK so analyze the specific situations where this happening.

Are they receiving the ball deeper with a lot of defenders sitting in a low block between them and the goal? If so, the aim is to get them to receive the ball with less defenders to beat when dribbling rather than to stop them dribbling at all. How can we achieve that? How can we draw more defenders out of position?

Or are they receiving the ball is good positions and dribble themselves into trouble because they don't have enough pass options around them? If that's the case, the aim is to get them more support so that they don't have to carry the ball for so long.

typical build-up situation looks like this: Ter Stegen passes the ball to one of the CDs, they pass the ball to De Jong and he bombs forward with the ball because of PPM (he also did this in real life so no big deal) and then he either passes the ball to Neymar on left wing (pass to foot) and Neymar bombs forward alone and loses the ball/gets tackled OR De Jong makes pass into space on right side for Dani Olmo but he hardly ever is fast enough to receive the ball (most of the times the ball gets out of the pitch and opponents have throw in. So instead of patient build up made of many passes betwen defenders and midfielders I have De Jong who bombs forward as soon as he gets the ball and 1. passes to Neymar who bombs forward as soon as he gets the ball or 2. fails pass into space to Dani Olmo and opponents have throw in.

I probably should have picked lower tempo or much lower tempo team instruction, but I don't want my players to pass the ball slowly, keep the ball and slowly make decision like turtles. I would like them to build up the action SLOWLY but with FAST, SHORT passes ONE-TWOS, and that never happens.

edit. When Neymar bombs forward he ends up without support, there is only Lautaro Martinez higher up the pitch.

edit2. While I'm still winning against weaker opponents or Real Madrid in league because well, I have Neymar, Martinez etc so they make goals out of nowhere like Messi and Suarez irl. I can't dominate possession, we hardly ever get 60%+ and we still don't perform very well in tough games like 1/4 or semi finals in CL

Edited November 28, 2019 by radenje