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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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4 minutes ago, Martini1991 said:

I'd rather have that game breaking bug than a broken ME, I could have made another save and enjoyed the game.

As an aside, I don't consider Neil's update to be acceptable as a consumer (And nothing that's said in defense of Neil et al will change that, it's my right as a consumer to be unhappy with a product) and if offered a refund I'd take it.

It's no use asking on the forums for a refund from the developers. They didn't sell the game to you.

If you want a refund, go back to where you bought the game from and ask there (though if you've already played a lot of hours, you'll likely be out of luck).

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10 minutes ago, CFuller said:

It's no use asking on the forums for a refund from the developers. They didn't sell the game to you.

If you want a refund, go back to where you bought the game from and ask there (though if you've already played a lot of hours, you'll likely be out of luck).

I won't be able to get a refund from Steam with me just asking, they're not exactly renown for their customer service.

It's a very weak argument to be saying that the developer didn't sell me the game though and all you're doing is helping to enable a mentality that will help to erode customer protections. It's their product, Steam is merely the medium. Valve aren't keeping all the money, it's going to SI. Hell, I'd be willing  to lose Valve's cut in the refund so I'd be getting my money back from SI that I paid to SI through Steam.

Edited by Martini1991
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2 saat önce, KUBI said:

The answer was already posted several times, they will look into and try to fix the issues, but for now for some users a work-around might be interesting.

For example, if they solve ME issues in mid-January or any date before March, will they publish it immediately, or wait for 20.3 database patch in March? I asked this because i know that the first, also single match engine update (I mean the period after Christmas) released with the data update in March in recent years.

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vor 32 Minuten schrieb Martini1991:

Valve aren't keeping all the money, it's going to SI. Hell, I'd be willing  to lose Valve's cut in the refund so I'd be getting my money back from SI that I paid to SI through Steam.

Steam is the retailer, Sega is the publisher, so the money from the retailer (a percentage) goes to Sega and they pay the creators. Most people react very surprised if they know what creators in the end receive. Not only for games, but also for books, songs etc. And this is not a one person creator, this is a company.

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7 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Steam is the retailer, Sega is the publisher, so the money from the retailer (a percentage) goes to Sega and they pay the creators. Most people react very surprised if they know what creators in the end receive. Not only for games, but also for books, songs etc. And this is not a one person creator, this is a company.

I did entirely forget about Sega, my bad, it's Sega whom is getting my money from Valve (Minus Valve's cut). Which changes the dynamic, it's Sega whom IMO have sold me the product, and SI have delivered that product through Sega.

Either way, I'm unable to get a refund through any "conventional channel", I've just got a broken product.

Edited by Martini1991
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1 minute ago, Martini1991 said:

I did entirely forget about Sega, my bad, it's Sega whom is getting my money from Valve (Minus Valve's cut).

Either way, I'm unable to get a refund through any "conventional channel", I've just got a broken product.

Its not broken, you may not like the 'product' or you may think it could be improved or has issues, but its not broken 

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2 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's not about favoring, it's just about how difficult it is to find a balance. There are threads about how good the FM17 ME was or other MEs. Those MEs did favor one style of play and made it fun for some users. The FM19 ME was often described as "dull", maybe because there was a good balance, but not much variety. We all would like to see an ME that incorporates everything, but that might be just a dream and the reality is a step by step work.

There's a strong tendency for subsequent versions to overcorrect for perceived flaws in previous version MEs too. FM16 was all about overlapping fullbacks and crosses; FM17 neutralised that by reducing cross effectiveness and making wide players focus their attention on defending against fullbacks so it was really easy to outnumber the opposition by playing narrow. FM17's play through the middle style favoured short passing and shadow strikers dropping back, FM18 was more direct and favoured multiple strikers. FM19 was much more possession centric and everybody started gegenpressing their opponents and penning them into the final third, FM20 lets the opposition out with laser-guided through balls which murder everyone's defence  and fast strikers move too well rather than not enough.

But some people really liked the quirks of different MEs

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb deaks500:

Its not broken, you may not like the 'product' or you may think it could be improved or has issues, but its not broken 

Yep, and right at the moment 50k playing FM 2020. 

The ME issues are aknowledged and they will try to fix it.

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Enough of the circular bickering. It's taking the thread of topic, especially when SI have already addressed where they are going with this. No one is deflecting anything and we're getting pretty tired of people casting aspersions. We've talked long and hard about this and clearly people are not listening 

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Has anyone else got an issue with final ball decision making, ie; with fulbacks waiting to be closed down before crossing into a defender or cams holding onto the ball when a striker makes the occasional good run. Feels like the only play makers in the game are the defenders from their own half?

 

I'm finding the match engine only allows for success (a high goals to chances rate) if your pumping balls over the top to a tall fast stiker, makes me wonder whats the point of all them tactical options im yet to see a tiki taka tactic breed success.

Edited by jere_d
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4 minutes ago, jere_d said:

Has anyone else got an issue with final ball decision making, ie; with fulbacks waiting to be closed down before crossing into a defender or cams holding onto the ball when a striker makes the occasional good run. Feels like the only play makers in the game are the defenders from their own half?

If you think you have an issue with anything, please create a bugs thread with some PKM examples, even if you're unsure its an issue, they will be able to take a look and determine whether it is or not

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Before I submit another bug report, am I missing something here? There's a 4 on the Transfers icon, I assumed that means there's 4 offers that require my attention but the only offer I have is for Lamela.

Capture.thumb.PNG.c95d8383c67061814a66ad18ad0d59d1.PNG

 

Edited by Tiger666
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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

Before I submit another bug report, am I missing something here? There's a 4 on the Transfers icon, I assumed that means there's 4 deals offers that require my attention but the only offer I have is for Lamela.

Capture.thumb.PNG.c95d8383c67061814a66ad18ad0d59d1.PNG

 

I'm Pretty sure i had it as well. Did you have any player that you accepted bids previously and still is there under transfer bid(loan or Transfer). I found that 3 U 23 players has Loan bid and 1 U 18 player has transfers from aclub totalled into 17. Once they left the club it gone normal.

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16 minutes ago, ferrarinseb said:

I'm Pretty sure i had it as well. Did you have any player that you accepted bids previously and still is there under transfer bid(loan or Transfer). I found that 3 U 23 players has Loan bid and 1 U 18 player has transfers from aclub totalled into 17. Once they left the club it gone normal.

I don't believe so. This is the full status of every player at the club. There's no Bid or Transfer anywhere that I can see. No loans pending either as it's the end of the season.

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.189352617c5f19330992c514c76556a7.jpg

 

Edited by Tiger666
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3 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I don't believe so. This is the full status of every player at the club. There's no Bid or Transfer anywhere that I can see. No loans pending either as it's the end of the season.

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.189352617c5f19330992c514c76556a7.jpg

 

Then Bug report it. I thought i had the same as i explained the situation. It shows up some times even after we deal with the offers when it shouldn't.

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5 hours ago, yandex said:

Yea, that's all well and fine. But it does nothing to stop the AI opponent from missing 5 1v1s per game. If you only care about winning, and not realism, your method works I guess.

True, but I can only monitor my own team up close. As stated, it was an experiment. If I was interested in realism, I would not play FM.

 

4 hours ago, srvngrc said:

Can you please try to decrease vision and passing of defenders via in game editor? Both yours and opponent’s.

I can do that but I'm not planning on playing the game for another week due to holiday travels.

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4 hours ago, deaks500 said:

Its not broken, you may not like the 'product' or you may think it could be improved or has issues, but its not broken 

You may not be experiencing problems but many others are, my experience with this version completely stinks to the extent that i've had about 20 crashes in the last month. completely at random. As it stands every click continue, save point or match im wating on it crashing. 

These problems make it easily the worst version of the game i've had the misfortune of purchasing. 

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb jimbo22:

You may not be experiencing problems but many others are, my experience with this version completely stinks to the extent that i've had about 20 crashes in the last month. completely at random. As it stands every click continue, save point or match im wating on it crashing. 

These problems make it easily the worst version of the game i've had the misfortune of purchasing. 

The problem is the amount of computers, graphic cards and set-ups. They made already a lot of stability fixes (which are usually crashes) but it is very difficult to identify everyone. Crashes are always on top of the list for fixing as this makes a game unplayable for some users. There was no improvement with the latest update for you?

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

The problem is the amount of computers, graphic cards and set-ups. They made already a lot of stability fixes (which are usually crashes) but it is very difficult to identify everyone. Crashes are always on top of the list for fixing as this makes a game unplayable for some users. There was no improvement with the latest update for you?

Nope,

The beta worked fine, didnt crash once. As soon as it went to the full release its been nothing but crashes, sadly. Its the only game in my library that has problems and 2019 never crashed on my system. 

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8 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's not about favoring, it's just about how difficult it is to find a balance. There are threads about how good the FM17 ME was or other MEs. Those MEs did favor one style of play and made it fun for some users. The FM19 ME was often described as "dull", maybe because there was a good balance, but not much variety. We all would like to see an ME that incorporates everything, but that might be just a dream and the reality is a step by step work.

Lol at calling FM19 good balance.

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10 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Lol at calling FM19 good balance.

It likely had ist issues too (Forward movement), OP long shots, however realistically you'll never know the balance until you would play it online. The AI was too negative in terms of match management on this. But then again, online from experience you'd face the vice versa scenario, which is everybody going gung-ho. As usual, with vastly different average scorelines as a consequence. :D 

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A few thoughts after putting in a number of hours.

ME - I wasn't the biggest fan before the patch, but I think the patch may be worse. Main issues before the patch were shots into side netting, and lack of real chance creation. But now it feels like there are far more issues than before, all of which have been touched on in this thread. I think the goal to achieve realistic stats at the end of the season impacts the individual match experience, and generally isn't as enjoyable as it should be. Yes Football Manager is a simulation, but it's also a game, I think that bit needs to be remembered.

Dev Centre is a nice addition, but there are bugs, which I have given a video showing and no reply:

Press conferences seem to be worse than before somehow. Getting asked questions and line-ups and systems when I haven't even picked it yet. Same goes for the social media feed, always saying how it's good or bad etc. Someone made a post a number of pages back about this, but it really takes you out of the experience. Always been an issue area for a number of players, but this year it actually seems worse.

Staff Responsibilities main screen is a huge mess. The individual drop downs are quite nice though, except Staff as it adds columns along the top.

They are my main gripes this season. I'm enjoying my Genk save to a degree, but my saves with Bayern and Arsenal were not enjoyable on either match engine. Taking a break for the Christmas period I think.

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1 час назад, Armistice сказал:

Lol at calling FM19 good balance.

I don't understand about balance too. Since FM18 ME encourages high riskly decisions and looks like it increase every next edition.

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what is with my wide players stopping on the touchline and losing the ball? i see it at least every 3 or so games and it results in either a CCC or a goal. 

 

They'll have a cross field ball pinged to them, then they'll stop (turn I assume, I'm not watching in 3d) and the opposition disposes them and my flank is empty. Next time it happens I am going to watch it in 3d because there is no explanation for this happening other than a buggy match engine

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12 minutes ago, Bluebird123 said:

what is with my wide players stopping on the touchline and losing the ball? i see it at least every 3 or so games and it results in either a CCC or a goal. 

 

They'll have a cross field ball pinged to them, then they'll stop (turn I assume, I'm not watching in 3d) and the opposition disposes them and my flank is empty. Next time it happens I am going to watch it in 3d because there is no explanation for this happening other than a buggy match engine

Like this?

 

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30 minutes ago, lloyd1990 said:

FM21 - Limit the amount of new features so that the match engine is priority

I'd love to see this but I doubt it will ever happen.

I'll explain why. By and large, improvements to the UI and other aspects outside of the ME come with almost guaranteed success. Reading between the lines of the official SI response to the ME criticisms of FM20, it sounds like advancements to the ME can't be guaranteed, further more, there is a risk that attempts to improve it can actually result in it going backwards. Imagine a release of the game with no improvements to gameplay because you diverted all resource to the ME but you didn't actually manage to improve that either. 

I look at FM20 and yes I'm pretty down on the ME but the other enhancements are superb.

Edited by janrzm
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People are playing the game in many different ways. Some watching the full match, others highlights and there are people who prefer a custom skin which calculate the outcome of a match (instant result). 

Of course, the ME is a core of the game, but also AI is a core and for thousends of people there are other cores in the game. 

SI is trying to adjust and fix all this "cores", but some parts need more time and attention than others.

 

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 image.thumb.png.9d3ff74721a3e4c28bcf6af308436e25.png 

 

How can beating Liverpool by 1 goal be a bad thing? 

How can the board tell me that Liverpool are inferior and that the margin of victory was too low?

 

I got a C for the match... beating the 2nd best team in premier league.

Club Vision is a great new idea, but 

 

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On 20/12/2019 at 15:23, Tiger666 said:

Does changing crosses actually do anything? I've tried whipped, low, mixed. Nothing seems to make any difference.

 

It seems like it doesn't I keep having my strikers get bad rating for failing to win headers and that make no sense as we play with low crosses and don't throw balls high in the air and into the box.

 

Now admittedly many things does not behave the way you expect, like AP/DLP having shoot less and getting 20+ goals from long shots and if you make the role one that has neutral shooting and enable shoot more the player never shoots and get no goals.

 

The problem is that it might never be the right decision to low cross (The position of striker and defenders make trying to low cross a stupid decision) or the difference in the role means it just doesn't get stuck in the position where the only/right choice is to shoot from range.

 

I've raised the issue but no one seems to care, that an AMC AP shoot more from range than an AM, even while the AM is clearly the role that should be taking long shots and the AP should be moving the ball to someone else to finish.

 

Inverted Winger/Inside Forward/Advanced Playmaker has the same problem, IF behave as a weird dribbler that can't score and never shoot from range, where IW seems to love getting assist unless it can dribble close to goal and try it self and AP seems to prefair shooting, but it's a bit harder to do from the wings, so depending on the defense the AP is either useless and get bad scores or get tons of goals.

 

Coutinho on load at Bayern is played as a wide Playmaker, but he keep getting tons of goals and not many assists.

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1 hour ago, kingking said:

 image.thumb.png.9d3ff74721a3e4c28bcf6af308436e25.png 

 

How can beating Liverpool by 1 goal be a bad thing? 

How can the board tell me that Liverpool are inferior and that the margin of victory was too low?

 

I got a C for the match... beating the 2nd best team in premier league.

Club Vision is a great new idea, but 

 

It certainly looks like this is not right and this is an area that does need some work- please upload a save in the Bugs forum and it can be looked at.

I have also edited out the unnecessary dig at the developers, so no more please.

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On 19/12/2019 at 16:37, szp said:

These analysis have nothing to do with reality. I gave here an example of my stats which were showing that the number of my converted CCCs was bigger than total goals scored by my team :rolleyes:

This made me look at my goal scored stats.

 

It was 0 CC and -83 CC scored. The only thing that works for most of us is that the continue button doesn't crash to desktop, the rest seems to have more bugs than working features.

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For me there seem to be 3 different issues at play with the ME and people's frustrations with it that are all to some extent inter-connected. 

1 - Most human players like to attempt to play attacking/entertaining football racking up loads of shots and goals. Which logically leads them to include a lot of attacking roles and select an attacking mentality. Even though this isn't necessary with in the ME to play attacking football. 

2 - Linked to this. The in game tactical advice is woeful. It literally encourages the ticking of tens of instructions and leads to overly attacking roles, as its a brave man who ignores a game that weekly screams at you "I see you have attacking mentality selected you should have 6 attacking roles for that", "you need a higher line if you are using an attacking mentality" . "You must have counter pressing" etc... Etc. 

3 - The ME then creates loads of 1 on 1s and misses from strikers due to various mechanics within it that just frustrate and annoy a large chunk of the player base. This seems to be particularly pronounced this year. 

For me personally I can get a decent bit of football going by playing on balanced (possession based tactic) or at most positive mentalities (for a low block counter based tactic) mentalities. But it often leads to pretty dull insipid boring George Grahamesque football that just doesn't excite or interest me. 

I wanna be Kevin Keegan but successful! 

Also although attacking football IRL is often punished far easier than it has been in FM up to now, I think SI need to take into account realism is great until its not fun as this is still a game and if a large enough proportion of the player base dislike the football offered by the ME (even if it may be more realistic) they'll stop playing the game as it stops being fun and becomes an exercise in frustration. 

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Just got time to play fm20 this Friday and i feel the game has improved over 19 apart from match engine

The last patch made that side netting from fullbacks more tolerable and can be ignored to a certain extent as players have a selfish streak when in box 

But what is annoying is the accurate long passes from cbs to striker creating a 1 vs1 that gets missed however deep we set the lines, i don't mind players trying long balls to exploit the high lines but what befuddles me is that every attempt is Pirlo esque and finds their target that creates a 1 vs1  from players who dosent even have a good passing stat this just gets annoying

And regarding 1v1 it has improved a little bit from beta but still missing 6 or7 of them seems unrealistic for a player who has 17 finishing (jovic)

I really hope the ME gets fixed as i really rate the new feature as it adds to the game but ME really gets annoying

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How can 1v1's still be such a big issue, it makes the game not worth playing due to the break in immersion and frustration it provides. Started a new network save with my brother and our only takeaway is "at least when i get a 1v1 i know not to bother getting excited because there's no chance it will go in". When a player is 1v1 in real life and misses it's a big deal. Fan shout and swear, commentators go mental and keep going back to it, post-match analysis will hang on it for half the run time, social media will turn into a bloodbath of memes and hate.....it should be something that gets a reaction because of how much the odds are normally stacked in the forwards favour in these scenarios. In FM20 it's just expected that they won't be scored. 

 

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5 minuti fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

1v1s (also defined as big chances) in real life are missed... a lot (average 19% conversion). The main issue is that a) the game is too liberal with what it calls a big chances and b) they don't happen as often in real life (average 3 times a game)

Strikers score almost the half they do in real life. (About AI). 

So if not in 1v1 there was another issue.

 

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24 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Strikers score almost the half they do in real life. (About AI). 

So if not in 1v1 there was another issue.

 

It's almost definitely more than one thing. It's annoying i don't have my opta login with me till I'm back at work, but what separates the lethal forwards from the rest of the pack isn't really 1v1 conversions, but the ability to convert the tougher chances. Do we have enough variation for that side? I'm not sure, It'd something I'm looking into

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6 minuti fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

It's almost definitely more than one thing. It's annoying i don't have my opta login with me till I'm back at work, but what separates the lethal forwards from the rest of the pack isn't really 1v1 conversions, but the ability to convert the tougher chances. Do we have enough variation for that side? I'm not sure, It'd something I'm looking into

Right, but (at least some) 1vs1 are hard to score (cause gk have to think about only one striker and going front of him, he can cover a bigger portion of the net. 

Decision and Composure are the most important quality and are harder to master than finishing.

So, there should be less 1vs1, yes a bigger conversion but not so big. 

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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1 minute ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Right, but (at least some) 1vs1 are hard to score (cause gk have to think about only one striker and going front of him, he can cover a bigger portion of the net. 

Decision and Composure are the most important quality and are harder to master than finishing.

So, there should be less 1vs1, yes a bigger conversion but not so big

That would be a fair assessment, certainly on the big chance side of things

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10 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Right, but (at least some) 1vs1 are hard to score (cause gk have to think about only one striker and going front of him, he can cover a bigger portion of the net. 

Decision and Composure are the most important quality and are harder to master than finishing.

So, there should be less 1vs1, yes a bigger conversion but not so big. 

 

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That would be a fair assessment, certainly on the big chance side of things

I went back and manually checked every CCC I had for half a season and I was actually scoring them at between 42-46% against top 6 and midtable teams but that dropped to 12% for bottom 6 teams. 

IE teams that parked the bus, which I suspect most people complaining about this are facing every week. 

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4 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

 

I went back and manually checked every CCC I had for half a season and I was actually scoring them at between 42-46% against top 6 and midtable teams but that dropped to 12% for bottom 6 teams. 

IE teams that parked the bus, which I suspect most people complaining about this are facing every week. 

There could a strong connection between that and the lack of those forward passes in the central area just outside the box, (not necessarily through balls, but passes into feet), which I think is linked to not enough recycled movement/forwards dropping deep. Against a deep defence that is the golden zone you want to play passes into and move the defence around

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