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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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3 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

Do you read what you only want to read? ive already stated that those comments where in early NOVEMBER! there was many updates to the match engine since then, but what I know for sure is by late December I was really happy with FM19 and that wasn't  even the final build of the game, same cant be said about FM20!

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

Strong one example mate. Nobody is saying they are never scored. The problem is they're created too often and misses are way, way too abundant relative to goals.

 

Also, defenders are not trailing the ONLY player making a run here? If you were trying to make things look good here, you failed.

Edited by yandex
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vor 1 Minute schrieb iAlwaysWin:

Do you read what you only want to read? ive already stated that those comments where in early NOVEMBER! there was many updates to the match engine since then, but what I know for sure is by late December I was really happy with FM19 and that wasn't  even the final build of the game, same cant be said about FM20!

 

 

 

The FM 20 ME is way better than 19 Version. Never really enjoyed it and uninstalled 2 Weeks after Final Patch . If you're Happy with it, good for you . 

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1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

The current FM20 ME is not better than the final build of the FM19 ME, your in denial mate.

Yes it actually is.
I also thought that it wasn't, and tried to go back to FM19, only to come once again back to FM20 since I couldn't stand FM19 ME anymore. You're in denial mate.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb yandex:

Strong one example mate. Nobody is saying they are never scored. The problem is they're created too often and misses are way, way too abundant relative to goals.

 

Also, defenders are not trailing the ONLY player making a run here? If you were trying to make things look good here, you failed.

It was about the 1v1s . Not the Defenders :onmehead: And again. There are issues with the ME .  I never said there wasnt

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5 minutes ago, Mikke said:

Yes it actually is.
I also thought that it wasn't, and tried to go back to FM19, only to come once again back to FM20 since I couldn't stand FM19 ME anymore. You're in denial mate.

So you thought the FM20 ME sucked went back to a final build of FM19 only to decide naw am going back to FM20 where I originally couldn't stand it that much I went back to a previous FM, once again your the one whos in denial, why would I want to play a previous FM if the match engine was worse lol.

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5 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

So you thought the FM20 ME sucked went back to a final build of FM19 only to decide naw am going back to FM20 where I originally couldn't stand it that much I went back to a previous FM, once again your the one whos in denial, why would I want to play a previous FM if the match engine was worse lol.

It's you're, not your. And yes, I tried FM19 and went back to FM20 since FM19 ME sucked even more. You may like it better, but that's your problem and not mine. "lol"

@HUNT3RIt's feedback on FM20 to say that its match engine is better than the final FM19 ME, is it not? Although I agree that not very detailed feedback, sorry. I'll shut up now.

Edited by Mikke
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8 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

No one is winning any contest - put away the handbags.

All we're interested in, in this thread - is feedback on FM20.

Feedback:

FM is unplayable with the currenct match engine, we need a new update. When is it coming?

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vor 1 Minute schrieb regainer:

Feedback:

FM is unplayable for me with the currenct match engine, I need a new update. When is it coming?

That would be more accurate feedback. There are no news about a ME update at the moment.

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

That would be more accurate feedback. There are no news about a ME update at the moment.

Pretty sure that a lot have complaint about the match engine. Just disappointed, what has happened the last couple of years at SI?

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Gerade eben schrieb regainer:

Pretty sure that a lot have complaint about the match engine. Just disappointed, what has happened the last couple of years at SI?

Yes, like every year. The ME is one of the most complex part of the game and very difficult to adjust. It's not just "fix one on one's" its more about "we change 500 lines of code and we don't know what side effect this will have". So you fix something and something else comes up.

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I feel like maybe the AI is too good at reading and countering your tactics? My tactic works great for a season and then the following season it's nowhere near the previous. I find myself constantly tweaking and tweaking.. it's really frustrating. Maybe this is just me, anyone else experiencing this?  

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2 minutes ago, CharlesJohnsson said:

I feel like maybe the AI is too good at reading and countering your tactics? 

They cannot 'read' or counter a tactic specifically. They adjust based on rep and form.

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30 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

You are cherry picking things to try and prove your argument. He criticised the ME when it was first out in FM19. Now, I don't know him, but as he has gone back to it one can assume that he became happier with it as the build got updated. Let's all hope the same thing happens with FM20.

However, the goals you have highlighted are part of the issue I was talking about. Long balls over the top, defenders not reacting until it is far too late. I never said 1v1's were not scored. They are created, as you have highlighted, by balls over the top far too often. And they are missed far too often. 

I asked Dagenham Dave about a week ago, as he argues strongly for the ME, and I won't criticise him for that - if he is enjoying it and likes it then fair play, for some PKM's of his 1v1's to see what we could learn. Why don't you upload a save to show how you have been playing etc? Perhaps you are on to something that many of us are not?

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1 hour ago, haffaz77 said:

Another Proof that people are just here to bitch about the Game.  I enjoy it very much atm . A lot of things are connected to tactics . People Managing Lower League Teams and downloading Tactics created with a Top League Team . Then they are wondering why its not working lol.  I have to agree with @Neil Brock that it's the "closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation" . Yes ... there are a few issues with it .. But what the Hell ? It's gonna be fixed. Til then ... chill out and play the Game.

 

Funny btw . 

6ccd501eecbd4baf371605c4b1bcd3b8.png

And that's the main issue. There is no competition, therefore there is no rush in repairing what is obvious.

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1 minute ago, davehanson said:

I asked Dagenham Dave about a week ago, as he argues strongly for the ME, and I won't criticise him for that - if he is enjoying it and likes it then fair play, for some PKM's of his 1v1's to see what we could learn. 

You won't learn anything from someone else's save. It'll be a different team, a different league, different players, different circumstances, different opposition, etc etc.

Oh, and I don't 'argue strongly' for the ME. I just give my thoughts on the game. What I will do, however, is question whether something perceived to be bugged is actually a tactical issue. It isn't always of course, but it will be more often than people are willing to admit. 

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1 minute ago, Sharkn20 said:

There is no competition, therefore there is no rush in repairing what is obvious.

Yes, because that would be a real stellar way to run a business. 

Do you think match engine issues can just be fixed by clicking a button? The gaming industry has been plagued with stories of companies 'rushing' software, beginning with ET for the Atari 2600 in the early 80s. It rarely ends well. 

The devs are busy looking at potential issues, and will fix any that need fixed in due course. Rushing it is just likely to make the problems worse. 

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To give some feedback on something that isn't the match engine. I'd like to see a fairly comprehensive update to the press and social centre aspects of the game, I see so many of the same 'tweets' and there's always the same old negative ones even if a player was actually really really good or if I win manager of the month with a 100% record someone will always say something like 'whisper it but I don't think X deserves this'. I also have to go through the same old interviews all the time and being asked about if I agree with the actions taken by a random other manager with regards to some player.

I don't feel like these areas have moved on since last year and I largely skip them as they don't seem to have much variety or be very dynamic, I don't know what anyone else thinks about it?

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11 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

You won't learn anything from someone else's save. It'll be a different team, a different league, different players, different circumstances, different opposition, etc etc.

Oh, and I don't 'argue strongly' for the ME. I just give my thoughts on the game. What I will do, however, is question whether something perceived to be bugged is actually a tactical issue. It isn't always of course, but it will be more often than people are willing to admit. 

Yet you are not seeing the issues that most people in this thread are? Would that be a fair comment? If so it must imply, regardless of leagues/opposition etc that you are doing something fundamentally different to most people. SO your save would be valuable. Just as they are to the developers when people are reporting bugs. But, it is your choice.

And you do argue strongly for the game. They may just be your thoughts, but never the less they are strongly argued for the game. I disagree that the majority of what we are seeing is tactical related, far too many people are reporting the same things for them to be tactical. And, from personal experience, the balls over the top and 1v1's you just can't stop, it really doesn't matter what you do. If you can prove otherwise please feel free to...…………..

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2 hours ago, Diogo28 said:

I haven't finished the entire 2nd half, but this is from the first half alone.

 

Tons of shots, all of which in actually dangerous Position exclusively pressured headers from the set piece (blue dots). Even the Goal was off a re-bound from a set-piece, namely the Penalty. IN parts this was because Porto, being the favorite, barely covered any higher width/Depth than Braga, thus barely risking a Thing, despite being the match favorites. This made it easy for Braga to get a foot into the moves.

Ivq77Ny.png

If the game were to deal in xG, at HT Porto were lucky and massively struggling to break Braga down, and even in the second half, there appear similar Patterns (though some stuff actually created in space and Play). Come on SI, provide some better Feedback already and tighten up the set piece defending. This is painfully busywork. :D 


 

Edited by Svenc
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11 minutes ago, Scott Jackson said:

To give some feedback on something that isn't the match engine. I'd like to see a fairly comprehensive update to the press and social centre aspects of the game, I see so many of the same 'tweets' and there's always the same old negative ones even if a player was actually really really good or if I win manager of the month with a 100% record someone will always say something like 'whisper it but I don't think X deserves this'. I also have to go through the same old interviews all the time and being asked about if I agree with the actions taken by a random other manager with regards to some player.

I don't feel like these areas have moved on since last year and I largely skip them as they don't seem to have much variety or be very dynamic, I don't know what anyone else thinks about it?

I hand over all press conferences and tunnel interviews to my assistant, have done for years. It's the only thing I hand over to my staff, everything else I do myself.

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8 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Yet you are not seeing the issues that most people in this thread are? Would that be a fair comment?

Do I see long balls over the top? Yes. Do I see 1v1s missed? Yes. 

Do I see either of these things with the frequency that others post about? No. 

I've uploaded lots of videos on this thread. But I've stopped doing that now, because (and this also applies to others who have tried to do the same), people will always find something to moan about in them. Look at what happened when Herne uploaded that fantastic run and goal by his AMC. Within minutes, people couldn't help themselves moaning about the defending, etc. 

From now, I'll just play the game, share any thoughts I have, post bug reports (I've done about 10 so far), and argue against any hyperbolic nonsense on here. It's what gets me through the day. (and the odd ban) :lol:

Edited by Dagenham_Dave
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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

I hand over all press conferences and tunnel interviews to my assistant, have done for years. It's the only thing I hand over to my staff, everything else I do myself.

That seems to be what most people I ever speak to about it do, which to me means it must need some work because in real life it's an important part of being a manager but most people skip them because it's always the same!

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1 minute ago, Scott Jackson said:

That seems to be what most people I ever speak to about it do, which to me means it must need some work because in real life it's an important part of being a manager but most people skip them because it's always the same!

I also turn off all the social media stuff.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Dagenham_Dave:

and argue against any hyperbolic nonsense on here. 

No need for that, let us handle it. "Argue against" usually ends up in an argument and that is not the purpose of this feedback thread.

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10 minutes ago, Scott Jackson said:

To give some feedback on something that isn't the match engine. I'd like to see a fairly comprehensive update to the press and social centre aspects of the game, I see so many of the same 'tweets' and there's always the same old negative ones even if a player was actually really really good or if I win manager of the month with a 100% record someone will always say something like 'whisper it but I don't think X deserves this'. I also have to go through the same old interviews all the time and being asked about if I agree with the actions taken by a random other manager with regards to some player.

I don't feel like these areas have moved on since last year and I largely skip them as they don't seem to have much variety or be very dynamic, I don't know what anyone else thinks about it?

Generally agree with this.  Press conferences are one of the most skippable elements of the game.  Tweets I think are just there to give some versimilitude.  They don't much matter and are easily ignorable.  Since scouting, training and development have all gotten overhauled in the last few years, I'd like to hope that the interactive side of FM gets a look sometime in the next few versions.  That might include another pass at some issues with player interactions as well - "I'm not prepared to go over this again" when a guy has averaged a 10.0 training rating for the third week in a row.

 

@davehanson I can't speak for Dave, obviously, but I've put a few PKMs up in the bug forums that include quite a few missed 1v1s.  It's a thing that happens, and hopefully the next patch will make it better.  Generally, I've dealt with it by trying to create goals in other ways in other situations.  The update that decreased the number of penalties hurt my team a lot - I didn't realize how much I was relying on tricky wingers drawing fouls in the box.  It turned into a good little wakeup.  I got some good feedback from Scott about what he does with his AMC that's helped.  In the games I've played since making a role change to that player, I've seen a couple slick passing moves and two very sexy passes slid through defenses on the ground for goals.  I still see a lot of 1v1s, but I get a better variety of chances and more goals playing with a tactic that suits my squad and the ideas I want to implement than picking some hyper-narrow, hyper-attacking downloaded shot-festival.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb steviemay17:

Can you think of any other industry in the world where it's remotely acceptable for the customer base to be told to either accept it or sod off?

You never can't satisfy all customers and that's true for all kind of industries. You need to make strategic decisions and you will lose costumers and find others. Some of the critics talk about the game as it would be getting worse every year, but then last year it was the most successful ever and it seems this years edition could even top it. How many updates where already released and how much feedback turned into new features in the game? How many other companies you know are doing the same for their costumers?

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2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You never can't satisfy all customers and that's true for all kind of industries. You need to make strategic decisions and you will lose costumers and find others. Some of the critics talk about the game as it would be getting worse every year, but then last year it was the most successful ever and it seems this years edition could even top it. How many updates where already released and how much feedback turned into new features in the game? How many other companies you know are doing the same for their costumers?

@KUBI The updates released is needed as the game has been unplayable. In my opinion SI should have kept the match engine from 2019 at least until a new version has been tested internally instead of by their customers. 

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Hello, 

i play the game on my iPad with the touch edition of FM 2020. While I usually enjoy each game I have struggled to get invested In This years due to the live matches constantly freezing & forcing me to close the app & starting again. I would avoid this by simply simming the match but when I do so my assistant manager will never make a sub unless an injury occurs. This means when I try playing with a Lower league team my squads get very tired really quickly as there’s no rotation & my subs sharpness declines very quickly. All in all I like the game but the fact that both options available to me are both glitching & preventing me from get the most out of the game. 

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Jesper9000:

In my opinion SI should have kept the match engine from 2019 at least until a new version has been tested internally instead of by their customers. 

Every ME is tested internally and that is the reason why an ME update takes that long. It needs to be tested a lot before it can be released. 

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7 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Every ME is tested internally and that is the reason why an ME update takes that long. It needs to be tested a lot before it can be released. 

Which begs the question of how updates are released that have such obvious issues such as the current one. I realise a lot of testing is done and comparisons with real life stats are made etc but does anyone actually just sit down and play the thing? Because it only takes a game or two on comprehensive to see there's problems with finishing, long balls, players mis-controlling the ball near the touchline, defenders heading the ball back in to danger etc.

Edited by Tiger666
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vor 1 Minute schrieb Tiger666:

Which begs the question of how updates are released that have such obvious issues such as the current one. I realise a lot of testing is done and comparisons with real life stats etc but does anyone actually just sit down and play the thing? Because it only takes a game or two on comprehensive to see there's problems with finishing, long balls, players mis-controlling the ball near the touchline etc.

To see an error or bug is not the same as to fix it. Some of the errors and bugs  you see might be a side effect of fixing another "everyone can see it" issue.

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

To see an error or bug is not the same as to fix it. Some of the errors and bugs  you see might be a side effect of fixing another "everyone can see it" issue.

Yes I realise that but assuming these games have been played during testing, a lot of these issues must have already been seen by the devs. I can only assume then that these issues were "seen" during testing but the patch was released anyway for us to then submit all the pkms etc.

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14 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Every ME is tested internally and that is the reason why an ME update takes that long. It needs to be tested a lot before it can be released. 

meh that feels like a weak response given that we are not in beta and the game was released almost a month ago. 

Edited by Mantis Toboggan
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Mantis Toboggan:

meh that feels like a weak response given that we are not in beta and the game was released almost a month ago. 

It's not about beta or not beta. The ME is never finished, but you always need to decide with version is balanced enough for a release. They could just release one and state, ok that's it, the ME for FM 2020. But they continue to try to make it better. There is no perfect ME that suits everyone. So you will have always people complaining about a part of it. Some want a ME that is fun to watch, other a ME that is for the tactical finesse and other who wants a perfect ME for their seventh divisions matches.

 

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vor 29 Minuten schrieb fournaan:

Teams aren't nearly compact enough. Centre backs and the opposition's strikers remain on the half way line when the ball is in the final third which is very out of date, particularly for the top teams 

This is good feedback, but they need pkms that showed this during a match. I know people say, we already uploaded tons of them. But sometimes it's the 54 pkm that nails it down what they need to adjust.

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26 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Every ME is tested internally and that is the reason why an ME update takes that long. It needs to be tested a lot before it can be released. 

So, FM20 is going to be skipped for me. Do we have a date release for FM21?

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Cadoni:

So, FM20 is going to be skipped for me. Do we have a date release for FM21?

It's your decision. You know where you will find information about the next release.

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1 hour ago, steviemay17 said:

Reading through this thread is a fairly good example of why there needs to be some kind or competition in the genre. not so much with the actual finished product as only SI will know if they truly put everything into making the game the best it can be each year or just do enough to justify the release and taking the money, but with the way they treat their customers.

It's very important to remember that despite the cult following and the way that the "FM community has been built up", SI are a company who gladly take the money each year and are run for profit, it's not like they are doing this as a favour to everyone so it's nobody's job but their own to find out how to improve their product to meet the needs of their customers.

A lot of the people on here are treated with a mixture of contempt as also as if they are employees - of course it would be helpful if we could all take the time to submit detailed reports on bugs, but I personally don't buy a game to sit and upload examples and jot down the exact minute and incident, so I'm perfectly entitled to say I'm unhappy and the reasons for it, the passive aggressive approach about needing to show why I'm unhappy only helps to fuel dissatisfaction towards the product.

This isn't something that will come home to roost now, there isn't a viable alternative and SI know it. It's staggering to see multiple replies on here saying just take the hit and move on, or if you don't like it don't play it. Can you think of any other industry in the world where it's remotely acceptable for the customer base to be told to either accept it or sod off?

It means that as soon as any viable contender comes along, they have so many PR open goals to build goodwill and get people interested in the product. Let's face it, the ME has some serious flaws this year and has done every year, it's up to you if you can put up with it and accept what's being offered, but it's got to the point where you would imagine a lot of people won't be exclusively loyal to SI when another offering comes along, so a lot of this current approach will build apathy and distrust among the customer base.

It's well worth SI fully considering how they treat their customers and the long term ramifications of their approach, never before have I seen a company that is so resistant and easily offended when it comes to negative feedback, it's time to buck up and take it on board.. 

All we ever ask is that people are going to criticize the game, to do so constructively. We're not offended by negative feedback, but we won't tolerate comments that take direct pops at the development team. This forum was created specifically to allow people to discuss our game in a way that allows for debate and conversation. It's got harder over the years to expect the development team to engage with users on the forums when they were spending an inordinate amount of time defending themselves and the company against criticism when all they were ever trying to do was create the best version of FM possible. 

We put everything we can into making this game the best we can every year. But we are a company and of course we're run for profit. If we spend more money than we earn every year there would be no more Football Manager. So we have to balance the books in terms of development in order to make sure we're sustainable long term. We never ‘take the money and run’ - we communicate directly with the community of this game, be it here or via social media every day of the year. We release numerous updates of the game trying our best to improve it with each one. If someone wants to come out with a football management game better than this good luck to them - we're all still fans of the game so if someone can do better than us, we'll likely all end up playing it! :D 

We get the people just want the game to be the best it can be and we want that too. 

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