Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Tiger666]

33 minutes ago, witchplease said:

Is any bug post made about bad finishing / OP set-pieces on bug forums ?

I don't know. I've pretty much given up making bug reports. Nothing I've reported on so far has been fixed apart from balls over the top. Can't really be bothered with it any more.

[ajt]

51 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

It's weird that the game conditioned me to fear long shots more than 1v1 chances. That shouldn't be the case.

Same here. Any time I get a highlight where there is space for the player to shoot from outside the box (especially if it's coming from a 'cleared' corner) I can feel the anxiety.

[Neil Brock]

9 hours ago, ferrarinseb said:

A Locked thread with list of Things are under consideration and list of things which devs feel are fixed might help the Fan base to give an idea of what is happening. 

Similarly to what I posted yesterday, this is largely down to resources but I do think more transparency would be helpful, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword. The more information we give the more expectation there will be and eventually we'll have to be in a position where we say x issue can't be fixed for a version. Or where we think an issue is fixed and has been worked on by a developer but for whatever reason there's still a problem, both of which opens us up to potential criticism.  

Reality of FM is that eventually our development team will have to stop working on FM20 and move onto the next version else new improvements and major overhauls simply can't happen. We'll only do so at a stage where we feel any 'major' issue is fixed, but everyone has different opinions of what they think is 'major'. An issue you may consider imperative 99% of other users haven't even noticed. That's both the beauty and frustration of FM, everyone plays it slight different! 

We're pretty active within our community - on the bugs forum if an issue is logged and under review in most areas you'll be informed of this. The Match Engine is a bit of an exception to the rule given nothing can be truly 'fixed' as there's endless possibilities of what can happen on a football pitch, including mistakes which to some people can look like bugs. It's about making it represent the most realistic version of football possible, which we're always striving towards using real life data and examples. 

But yes, TLDR; we try and be active with our community and are looking at ways to do this even better than we do now.  

[SebastianRO]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Similarly to what I posted yesterday, this is largely down to resources but I do think more transparency would be helpful, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword. The more information we give the more expectation there will be and eventually we'll have to be in a position where we say x issue can't be fixed for a version. Or where we think an issue is fixed and has been worked on by a developer but for whatever reason there's still a problem, both of which opens us up to potential criticism.  

Reality of FM is that eventually our development team will have to stop working on FM20 and move onto the next version else new improvements and major overhauls simply can't happen. We'll only do so at a stage where we feel any 'major' issue is fixed, but everyone has different opinions of what they think is 'major'. An issue you may consider imperative 99% of other users haven't even noticed. That's both the beauty and frustration of FM, everyone plays it slight different! 

We're pretty active within our community - on the bugs forum if an issue is logged and under review in most areas you'll be informed of this. The Match Engine is a bit of an exception to the rule given nothing can be truly 'fixed' as there's endless possibilities of what can happen on a football pitch, including mistakes which to some people can look like bugs. It's about making it represent the most realistic version of football possible, which we're always striving towards using real life data and examples. 

But yes, TLDR; we try and be active with our community and are looking at ways to do this even better than we do now.  

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Everything you said is common sense and "politically correct" from a company employee's perspective, so no hard feelings.

Last year, with FM19 I have gone through a similar experience, almost identical. The lack of central play and a ME which was only chasing real life satistics, but with 0 consideration about how it should get to those "statistics" and in the end someone (might have been you, but I am not sure) came and said the exact same thing: " Reality of FM is that eventually our development team will have to stop working on FM20 and move onto the next version else new improvements and major overhauls simply can't happen. " And you are right, at some point, resources need to be moved on to the next project. And this is why I pre-ordered FM20 with actual confidence. I was thinking " they can't get it wrong for a 2nd year in a row" or " no way will FM20 keep having no central play", stuff like this. To my shock ... here we are. I am not going to complain about money because it is not an enormous sum and I still have a blast with FM17 and FM18, but I will not be pre-ordering any product from SI from now on, simply on principle. Pre-order should be a reward from the customers for a company that listens and acts. SI did just this for so many years, that is untiil last year. I personally ended up with 2 editions, FM19 and FM20 that I can't bring myself to play for even 5 minutes, given how their respective MEs are.

Good luck to developers with FM21.  I play this franchise for so long, it's actually easy to spot bad trends / habbits and I could read right through FM19, even though the majority of the people only started complaining in FM20.

TLDR: That's my opinion: the root of all this s**t lies in FM19, it hasn't started in FM20, just became more obvious. Just my 2 cents.

[bleventozturk]

49 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

The Match Engine is a bit of an exception to the rule given nothing can be truly 'fixed' as there's endless possibilities of what can happen on a football pitch, including mistakes which to some people can look like bugs. It's about making it represent the most realistic version of football possible, which we're always striving towards using real life data and examples. 

This is the problem though. Yes, anything can happen, but what people are pointing out as 'bugs' here sometimes are actually 'trends' in the ME, not exceptions/mistakes, such as apparently the biggest issue right now which is 'finishing from set pieces or long shots being more powerful than finishing from open play'. That is something that can/should be truly fixed, the trend. Not the exceptions, or even how frequently exceptions happen. 

[bleventozturk]

I'm still watching youtube videos of this guy, which is my only source for reviewing the public beta ME. There is some central play, definitely a big step up from FM 19 imo, which is great and encouraging. Check out the highlights from his matches, the improvement from FM 19 is obvious. The remaining problem is apparently the finishing accuracy from those 1on1's still, vs. long shots and finishing from set pieces. Get that right and it will be a decent ME.

 

 

[IrrelevantLion]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Reality of FM is that eventually our development team will have to stop working on FM20 and move onto the next version else new improvements and major overhauls simply can't happen. We'll only do so at a stage where we feel any 'major' issue is fixed, but everyone has different opinions of what they think is 'major'. 

So it took until January to hot fix the ME, two months after release, and now it seems that there is even a potential for the major ME issues to never be fixed, as major issues seem to have been presented as down to interptetation for SI.

You speak in non absolutes, so I could, non absolutely say, that you don't consider the match engine issues to be major, and they won't get fixed as you have moved on to 21. 

We don't get guarantees after we have paid for the product. I think a lot of us will be holding off on the next installment of the series for this reason. 

[saiyaman]

I can't help but feel that the belief I've put in SI by paying them the maximum money I can by pre-ordering is starting to wane.

I know the cycle is typically go till .3 and then move on to the next version but I'm at this point where I love a lot of FM 20 features out of the ME that I cannot seem to go back to previous FMs. At the moment I'm waiting every day to see if they've decided on a date and the ambiguity surrounding this is.....umm I dunno. There have been earlier versions where the same thing has pushed a lot of important fixes to .2 or .3.

It's come to a point where I'm considering getting FM only on sale if it's going to take more than a few months to get a patch/update released.

No offense at all to any developers this is just the view of a frustrated player who loves the stuff outside the ME.

[mp_87]

Too many people saying SI need to "fix" the stats and make them more like real life. So that e.g. "top" strikers score 35 a season rather than 25, well that should be about bottom of the list of priorities.

Less wide play and run and cross spam, less every-second-pass-going-to-the-wideman, less direct play, less long balls, less set piece goals, less long shot goals, more variety in finishing and sorting of 1v1's, some actual central play in the final third, proactive rather than reactive defending, the small bugs such as controlling the ball and leaving it behind, etc. That has to be the aim and attention rather than obsessing over calibrating stats to exactly match real life.

Edited January 23, 2020 by mp_87

[Novem9]

1 час назад, IrrelevantLion сказал:

So it took until January to hot fix the ME, two months after release, and now it seems that there is even a potential for the major ME issues to never be fixed, as major issues seem to have been presented as down to interptetation for SI.

You speak in non absolutes, so I could, non absolutely say, that you don't consider the match engine issues to be major, and they won't get fixed as you have moved on to 21. 

We don't get guarantees after we have paid for the product. I think a lot of us will be holding off on the next installment of the series for this reason. 

Very untimely comment made. We asked for better feedback from SI and when Niel did you just started the same song which don't give any new or additional information. This message ruin any dialogue imo.
Diplomacy is not only respect and courtesy, it is also patience for the greater benefit  (if you are not even interested in the first two)

Edited January 23, 2020 by Novem9

[anagain]

Today I learned that the start screen has my player's names on their cubicles in the dressing room.

Why have I not seen that before in the 281 hours I have spent on FM20?

It's great!

[themadsheep2001]

25 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Very untimely comment made. We asked for better feedback from SI and when Niel did you just started the same song which don't give any new or additional information. This message ruin any dialogue imo.
Diplomacy is not only respect and courtesy, it is also patience for the greater benefit  (if you are not even interested in the first two)

Exactly, this was exactly the point I was making a couple of days ago. If no one is really interested in the reply they might as well just carry on what they are doing and not get bogged down in the forum

[anagain]

23 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Very untimely comment made. We asked for better feedback from SI and when Niel did you just started the same song which don't give any new or additional information. This message ruin any dialogue imo.
Diplomacy is not only respect and courtesy, it is also patience for the greater benefit  (if you are not even interested in the first two)

Good post!

Yep, when people make comments such as have been made in response to Neil's very open reply to the community, you can understand why SI refrain from making bold statements. I don't understand the scorn of this community. The fact that the disrespectiful reply to which @Novem9replied has 11 up arrows is crazy. That means there are another 11 people in this community that think treating the openness of SI with such rudeness is acceptable. 

I love the match engine in the beta patch. I've been having so much fun with this edition of FM. I've had an on/off love affair with FM for the past 4 or 5 years. I think I just got a little exhausted of it from too much play. With FM20, however, I have not been so absorbed in the game since 2014.

I've said this elsewhere as well, but I was watching Loki Doki on YouTubs the other day and he did a video on the 5 things he loves about FM. The number one was simply gratitude that this amazing game exists. Is it perfect? No. Are there things that each and every one of us would change? Of course? But it does exist and we play it in our droves each and every year. For what else do you get 281 hours of enjoyment for £35?

I hope SI carry on making FM well in to this century. I want to be playing it when I'm eating my mushed peas in my nursing home.

Keep up the damn good work, because some of us know you all try bloody hard over at SI Towers.

[Keyzer Soze]

It seems that every year the same usually happens:

The large majoraty of users always think that the last version of ME from FM"X" is good, or at least playable, and the first version version of ME from FM "X+1" is always a step back.

I play FM since....CM times, and it's always been like this.

So, why dont SI start releasing FM with two versions of the ME? One version would be the last version from previous FM, and the other version would be the current ME version that they've been working?

When users would start a save game, they would been given the choice to choose between the ME version they would want to play.

[Double0Seven]

13 minutes ago, anagain said:

The fact that the disrespectiful reply to which @Novem9replied has 11 up arrows is crazy. That means there are another 11 people in this community that think treating the openness of SI with such rudeness is acceptable. 

I upvoted both because I agreed with the sentiment of both.

You can understand people not being happy paying for a full price game yet developement post release is abandoned that quickly (<1 year compared to other big games) despite (acknowledged) issues being present in the game. Thats not normal for most games and although it happens more in the game industry, its not something to be happy with.

I also realise SI have no magic stick to just magically fix the issues. 

I also agree with @SebastianRO as it does sound a bit deja vu. We all know SI cant put all year effort in FM 2020 after its released, but thats something we already know dont we?

13 minutes ago, anagain said:

Keep up the damn good work, because some of us know you all try bloody hard over at SI Towers.

And honestly I think they do, but they would do even better work with a proper competitor. There are just some things that have been way to stale in the game for way to long. I dont think that needs to be said again. 

 

13 minutes ago, anagain said:

For what else do you get 281 hours of enjoyment for £35?

The most played games in the world are free ones with a huge replayability factor, so although I agree FM is excellent value, your argument doesnt really hold up with current popular games on PC (Lol, dota, csgo, fortnite, just some examples). 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Double0Seven

[FMLegend1983]

I respect Neil coming on here but honestly if the team move onto FM21 whilst leaving the game in the state that it is there is no way I will buy FM21 even if it is on sale.

This is more than just a few random opinions, worst FM ever released and at £39.99 daylight robbery.

[MatthewS17]

4 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Similarly to what I posted yesterday, this is largely down to resources but I do think more transparency would be helpful, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword. The more information we give the more expectation there will be and eventually we'll have to be in a position where we say x issue can't be fixed for a version. Or where we think an issue is fixed and has been worked on by a developer but for whatever reason there's still a problem, both of which opens us up to potential criticism.  

Reality of FM is that eventually our development team will have to stop working on FM20 and move onto the next version else new improvements and major overhauls simply can't happen. We'll only do so at a stage where we feel any 'major' issue is fixed, but everyone has different opinions of what they think is 'major'. An issue you may consider imperative 99% of other users haven't even noticed. That's both the beauty and frustration of FM, everyone plays it slight different! 

We're pretty active within our community - on the bugs forum if an issue is logged and under review in most areas you'll be informed of this. The Match Engine is a bit of an exception to the rule given nothing can be truly 'fixed' as there's endless possibilities of what can happen on a football pitch, including mistakes which to some people can look like bugs. It's about making it represent the most realistic version of football possible, which we're always striving towards using real life data and examples. 

But yes, TLDR; we try and be active with our community and are looking at ways to do this even better than we do now.  

This seems to paint the picture that expectations are a bad thing? 

You're a gaming company. Expectations will always be there. 

You also talk about beginning work on the next edition(which will probably continue with the same issues), and the fact is that you had months and months plus the Beta tests to find out that 1v1s were an issue. And it's not like it's subtle. It's literally an in your face, there's a problem here issue. It was reported in the Beta. It's now the end of January. 

Nobody is asking for a fix but actual signs of improvement will be nice. SI can't even provide that. Since FM18, it seems like delay tactics. 

Tbh, you can keep your game. I'm done with the franchise. 

[IrrelevantLion]

21 minutes ago, anagain said:

Good post!

Yep, when people make comments such as have been made in response to Neil's very open reply to the community, you can understand why SI refrain from making bold statements. I don't understand the scorn of this community. The fact that the disrespectiful reply to which @Novem9replied has 11 up arrows is crazy. That means there are another 11 people in this community that think treating the openness of SI with such rudeness is acceptable. 

I love the match engine in the beta patch. I've been having so much fun with this edition of FM. I've had an on/off love affair with FM for the past 4 or 5 years. I think I just got a little exhausted of it from too much play. With FM20, however, I have not been so absorbed in the game since 2014.

I've said this elsewhere as well, but I was watching Loki Doki on YouTubs the other day and he did a video on the 5 things he loves about FM. The number one was simply gratitude that this amazing game exists. Is it perfect? No. Are there things that each and every one of us would change? Of course? But it does exist and we play it in our droves each and every year. For what else do you get 281 hours of enjoyment for £35?

I hope SI carry on making FM well in to this century. I want to be playing it when I'm eating my mushed peas in my nursing home.

Keep up the damn good work, because some of us know you all try bloody hard over at SI Towers.

It wasn't disrespectful. It is not unreasonable for your customers to speculate on the state of the match engine if an absolute answer cannot be given. If we are given open ended answers you can expect open ended questions 

 

[LucasBR]

A dumb question but why every single version we have to have a new ME? It's not possible to "use" the ME from previous versions?

[Keyzer Soze]

2 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

A dumb question but why every single version we have to have a new ME? It's not possible to "use" the ME from previous versions?

If you think that ME is a representation of real life football, or at least this is the expectation of SI, then it's normal that they are always trying to make that representation as close to real life as possible.

The problem is, sometimes they'll get closer.... other times... not.

[anagain]

7 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

It wasn't disrespectful. It is not unreasonable for your customers to speculate on the state of the match engine if an absolute answer cannot be given. If we are given open ended answers you can expect open ended questions 

 

To suggest that they don't care?

2 hours ago, IrrelevantLion said:

You speak in non absolutes, so I could, non absolutely say, that you don't consider the match engine issues to be major, and they won't get fixed as you have moved on to 21. 

If they didn't care they wouldn't bother to post. I was looking at the bug reports forum earlier. They care. The QI team are replying to posts all day.

Neil has already said that match engine issues are hard to fix. I've been here long enough to have seen a lot of chatter on the match engine. The game gets bigger each and every year. Fixing something isn't always making things better. Every little twiddle can have a number of consequences.

It's all well and good for people to grumble about the game, but it would be nice if they understood the ups and downs with making a game as complex as FM. I don't believe they do.

Edited January 23, 2020 by anagain

[IrrelevantLion]

Just now, anagain said:

To suggest that they don't care?

If they didn't care they wouldn't bother to post. I was looking at the bug reports forum earlier. They care. The QI team are replying to posts all day.

Neil has already said that match engine issues are hard to fix. I've been here long enough to have seen a lot of chatter on the match engine. The game gets bigger each and every year. Fixing something isn't always making this better.

It's all well and good for people to grumble about the game, but it would be nice if they understood the ups and downs with making a game as complex as FM. I don't believe they do.

I didn't say they don't care. I said their considerations of major issues may be different to the customers. And as such they may prioritise a new release over what they consider to be low priority issues 

[anagain]

1 minute ago, IrrelevantLion said:

I didn't say they don't care. I said their considerations of major issues may be different to the customers. And as such they may prioritise a new release over what they consider to be low priority issues 

I believe you need to make yourself clearer then.

 

[IrrelevantLion]

4 minutes ago, anagain said:

I believe you need to make yourself clearer then.

 

I just wish SI were more specific with their intentions. I wish we knew what SI consider to be major issues and at what point they dedicate more development time to a new installment instead of a previous one

[LucasBR]

16 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

If you think that ME is a representation of real life football, or at least this is the expectation of SI, then it's normal that they are always trying to make that representation as close to real life as possible.

The problem is, sometimes they'll get closer.... other times... not.

I know, I agree but it'd be much easier to use a good ME and just try to make it even better.

[Keyzer Soze]

1 minute ago, LucasBR said:

I know, I agree but it'd be much easier to use a good ME and just try to make it even better.

That's why i suggest, just a couple posts above, that SI would start releasing FM with two ME versions: one new and other would be the last version from previous FM.

That way users could choose between a new, and less polish ME, and a older one but with less bugs.

[anagain]

39 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

The most played games in the world are free ones with a huge replayability factor, so although I agree FM is excellent value, your argument doesnt really hold up with current popular games on PC (Lol, dota, csgo, fortnite, just some examples). 

Because they're free. However, they make a huge amount of money from skins and consumables, from advertising revenue, from ESports and from merchandise. Most of those developers also have other games they make a huge amount of money from. SI have FM. They have to release yearly to make ends meet. They also then have to have a strict time limit on when they need to start working on the next installment.

39 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

And honestly I think they do, but they would do even better work with a proper competitor. There are just some things that have been way to stale in the game for way to long. I dont think that needs to be said again. 

They had a competitor, and they have competitors. When SI split from Eidos, Eidos carried on and made Championship Manager. It didn't do well.

You could also say FIFA is a competitor. The likes of FIFA and PES are why the management sim is more niche. And FM is niche despite it being so loved by its loyal fans.

39 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

You can understand people not being happy paying for a full price game yet developement post release is abandoned that quickly (<1 year compared to other big games) despite (acknowledged) issues being present in the game. Thats not normal for most games and although it happens more in the game industry, its not something to be happy with.

I also realise SI have no magic stick to just magically fix the issues.

It's not a full price game. You can get FM for £35 on release. I did.

As I said above, SI release yearly for financial reasons. If they didn't you wouldn't get the same game. They have to leave enough time to work on the next version.

Trust me when I say the grumblers are the minority. There are many, amny people out there playing this game at home and they never once shout at the forums and complain that SI don't do enough, that the game's not fullfilling its cost. The make the most of each version because they know SI do their best, or they simply don't make the effort to concentrate so hard on every little aspect of the game.

You mentioned a number of other games. Do you think Riot, Epic, Blizzard or Valve never get shouted at about their games? Ever go on reddit? All four of those developers have huge teams and a hell of a lot more money than SI.

Accept SI work hard, play the game and enjoy it for what it gives you each and every year. There are ways to adapt to every minor (and they are minor, because they never physically stop anyone from playing the game - this game is never completely broken for the majority) problem that comes up. 

The more people concentrate on their perceived issues the more they will notice them.

Edited January 23, 2020 by anagain

[anagain]

17 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

I just wish SI were more specific with their intentions. I wish we knew what SI consider to be major issues and at what point they dedicate more development time to a new installment instead of a previous one

Then you clearly didn't read Neil's response well enough. He gave an answer to that.

[Double0Seven]

12 minutes ago, anagain said:

SI have FM. They have to release yearly to make ends meet.

I would be honestly surprised if SI really have it that bad like you make it sound. This is a game that is released yearly and regularly reaches steam numbers that triple AAA games dont reach. It also releases on Nintendo Switch and mobiles where it is a top selling game despite being one of the most expensive games out there on phone. There is no proper competition as well. Not on PC and not on mobiles. 

I would be surprised if SI struggle to make ends. 

My argument was also focused on just the hours argument. 

12 minutes ago, anagain said:

You could also say FIFA is a competitor.

 

Oh come on. 

12 minutes ago, anagain said:

It's not a full price game. You can get FM for £35 on release. I did.

 

I dont know where you see this, but on steam its full price as on many other sites right now (if theres no special deal going on). https://isthereanydeal.com/game/footballmanagerii0ii0/info/

12 minutes ago, anagain said:

You mentioned a number of other games. Do you think Riot, Epic, Blizzard of Valve never get shouted at about their games? Ever go on reddit? All four of those developers have huge teams and a hell of a lot more money than SI.

I agree, but I didnt say anything about this. I just meant it as someone said "which game other than FM has this much value" so I pointed out some other games have value too.

12 minutes ago, anagain said:

There are many, amny people out there playing this game at home

And many dont play it as hardcore or as serious and wouldnt care much more. Thats also a thing.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Double0Seven

[anagain]

8 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

And many dont play it as hardcore or as serious and wouldnt care much more. Thats also a thing.

And that gives people a right to be rude, does it? It's a single player game. You play against the engine. There's no hardcore other than how many hours you put in. 

I've played a lot of games over a lot of years. Compared to some games FM is always in a fantastic state. It works on release. 

The individual game designers, the coders, the artists. They pour everything in to these games. I just think people need to respect that effort.

Anyway, this is a feedback forum. I've said all I'll say.

Edited January 23, 2020 by anagain

[FlorianAlbert9]

I made some premise:

After the last official patch, i was unable to get any results. I staying for one years before get sacked. I think i coach 10 teams in 13 years. 

(Ok, maybe boards have too Little patience, cause there are very few teams that have had same manager for more than 2 years and in it Is a Little bit irrealistic... The last one i were sacked 'cause at december i was in relegation zone, 18 position', with a weak team predicted 19....)

I never been so in difficulty like in this edition.

Every new job i buoght young players top develop but i never get the chance to make that. 

I don't like this ME. But there was potential (like ever). 

 

Said that. 

We want too much from a game that is a game with a normal price. What we want often cannot be delivered at that price. 

We want a professional software at a game price. 

That's impossible.

[Contexx]

After playing a few games with this patch, I'm noticing a few things which are really nice. The dribbling and skirmishes for the ball in certain spots look more realistic.  The whole long ball counterattack thing seems to be finally fixed, which makes for far more pleasant gameplay and tactical planning.  I like the variety of goals being scored, as well as a few other things that have been mentioned here.

One troubling thing I find is the positioning of my players seems to have morphed and gone a bit weird. This is particularly the case with fullbacks.  I play a 4312 formation, using the fullbacks in the wingback role, and since the patch came out it seems they always either tuck in right next to the CB's, or just wander around. Out of possession they seem as likely to make a clearance in our own six yard box as my centerbacks, while when in possession, even if I instruct them to stay wider, they  seem to just roam around when the ball is not on their "side" of the pitch.  At times, the central midfielders also seem a bit "unhinged" in their positioning, but it's especially troubling when it's the fullbacks, since they're so vital to the overall "shape" of my team.

[witchplease]

2 hours ago, anagain said:

Accept SI work hard, play the game and enjoy it for what it gives you each and every year. There are ways to adapt to every minor (and they are minor, because they never physically stop anyone from playing the game - this game is never completely broken for the majority) problem that comes up. 

There's respecting their hard work and then there's this. Yeah they work pretty hard like most passionate developers no doubt but why shouldnt fans keep pushing them to create better match engine ? Just because you respect them doesnt mean you dont criticize and point out the problems no matter how little or big. You dont just bend over and accept whatever they release unless its completely and literally unplayable. Thats not a good way to progress, not just in fm but in any field. Look at iphone, it's invention was so important for technology, it was revolutionary but once their fanbase became "gonna buy every model on first day" kind of people how much innovation has iphone done since then ? They sell tv stands for thousand of dollars because they know it will sell and they will come up with something more ridiculous next time until their customer start pushing them to actually make progress.

 

I understand you are trying to respect the devs but saying fans should accept the game and adapt to problems is nothing but bending over and a very good way to halt game's progress over time.

 

Also saying they are minor problems because they dont make game unplayable is highly subjective, if there's a bug in game where my striker would just never score a goal then thats not unplayable but it would still be a major ****ing problem for me.

Edited January 23, 2020 by witchplease

[KUBI]

@ProfessionalTD

You can set users on ignore in the settings or by hovering on their avatar and chose ignore user.

That's better than to use the term "Fanboy" which is against the forum rules and therefore hidden. 

[ProfessionalTD]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Settings > Ignored Users

Many thanks. 

[Novem9]

3 часа назад, anagain сказал:

Today I learned that the start screen has my player's names on their cubicles in the dressing room.

Why have I not seen that before

Because you managed clubs which have no money even for cubicles?  

[Petros7]

I'm very frustrated with FM20, much more than any of their previous iterations (including CM4).

I have played this game for more than 1100 hours already and my average for each year runs to more than double that.

I've had success, but mostly failed in most of my objectives in every save I started - and I still carry on playing.

Maybe the next (last?) patch will make me happy again and maybe it won't - if it doesn't then I'll cross it off as a failed attempt by SI for this year.

Still, when I calm down and think about it overall, I really don't care if SI fail every now and then, because of what they've given me in the past and hopefully in the future too.

I'll keep on supporting their independence as much as I can because I trust them - you know, they're much like "family" now... and if I don't support family then who would I support? [EA? ]

That's just how I feel and I think SI should hear from everyone, not just the moaners.

[anagain]

38 minutes ago, witchplease said:

There's respecting their hard work and then there's this. Yeah they work pretty hard like most passionate developers no doubt but why shouldnt fans keep pushing them to create better match engine ? Just because you respect them doesnt mean you dont criticize and point out the problems no matter how little or big. You dont just bend over and accept whatever they release unless its completely and literally unplayable. Thats not a good way to progress, not just in fm but in any field. Look at iphone, it's invention was so important for technology, it was revolutionary but once their fanbase became "gonna buy every model on first day" kind of people how much innovation has iphone done since then ? They sell tv stands for thousand of dollars because they know it will sell and they will come up with something more ridiculous next time until their customer start pushing them to actually make progress.

 

I understand you are trying to respect the devs but saying fans should accept the game and adapt to problems is nothing but bending over and a very good way to halt game's progress over time.

 

Also saying they are minor problems because they dont make game unplayable is highly subjective, if there's a bug in game where my striker would just never score a goal then thats not unplayable but it would still be a major ****ing problem for me.

I've never said don't criticise. Constructive Criticism can be key to a good product and any developer will value it. Judging the intentions of the developer to put out a good product, or make it the best it can be, is not constructive criticism though. It's rude, because of course they want their product to be as good as it can be.

And, are you really comparing FM to IPhone? Do SI sell TV stands now? First it's cars all the time...now it's IPhones.

But, is there a bug in game that means your striker will never score? I don't believe so. There were problems with long balls and one on ones, but the beta patch has pretty much eliminated all that. I've seen and mentioned possible problems with headers, and I believe SI have looked at that one. I also see a great deal of players skinning my full backs like they are not there. I've been watching the issue and debating mentioning it, but I also wonder if it's my players just not being good enough. At least suggest a bug that is actually present, because this is half the problem with all the grumbling. People overreact and exaggerate.

But. Please criticise. Just be constructive.

Edited January 23, 2020 by anagain

[anagain]

23 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Because you managed clubs which have no money even for cubicles?  

We change in a portable toilet some times...

The boss promised a portacabin...

Edited January 23, 2020 by anagain

[witchplease]

39 minutes ago, anagain said:

I've never said don't criticise. Constructive Criticism can be key to a good product and any developer will value it. Judging the intentions of the developer to put out a good product, or make it the best it can be, is not constructive criticism though. It's rude, because of course they want their product to be as good as it can be.

And, are you really comparing FM to IPhone? Do SI sell TV stands now? First it's cars all the time...now it's IPhones.

But, is there a bug in game that means your striker will never score? I don't believe so. There were problems with long balls and one on ones, but the beta patch has pretty much eliminated all that. At least suggest a bug that is actually present, because this is half the problem with all the grumbling. People overreact and exaggerate.

Mate you literally said to accept the game as they give you each and every year, and adapt to "minor" problems... that was such a ridiculous and patronizing statement towards SI devs that i had to say something in this discussion, other than that i have no horse in this race, cant care less about a discussion of assumptions about devs' intentions and such.

My point about iphone example was that if consumer base dont push for progress than over time the developers or creators whoever will start taking liberties with their work.

I have talked about bugs that are still in beta patch, i have logged a few myself. Yeah the example was exaggerated since it was just an example but right now there are quite few bugs like really bad finishing from open play, many goals from set pieces, lack of central play in final third, wingers taking forever to cross resulting into blocked crosses, headers going over post, fullbacks left completly unmarked during attack etc... All these bugs make this patch frustrating and a major problem atleast to me, if this patch was to be released in its current state without any way of reverting ME back i'd most definitely move on from the game right now. But As i said, only reason i dropped a comment was because how ridiculous your statement that i quoted earlier sounded, i am not debating if devs intentions are good or how much they make.

Edited January 23, 2020 by witchplease

[anagain]

20 minutes ago, witchplease said:

Mate you literally said to accept the game as they give you each and every year, and adapt to "minor" problems... that was such a ridiculous and patronizing statement towards SI devs that i had to say something in this discussion, other than that i have no horse in this race, cant care less about a discussion of assumptions about devs' intentions and such.

Yeah, I agree it says that. I should have expanded, because I'm not denying people the right to bug problems. But all this shouted abuse suggesting things like SI are happy with an unfinished product isn't right. People act like errors with the match engine are thje end of the world and make the game unplaybale. That is not true. The game is still playable, and there are ways to minimise the effects of match engine errors.

[Weller1980]

14 minutes ago, anagain said:

Yeah, I agree it says that. I should have expanded, because I'm not denying people the right to bug problems. But all this shouted abuse suggesting things like SI are happy with an unfinished product isn't right. People act like errors with the match engine are thje end of the world and make the game unplaybale. That is not true. The game is still playable, and there are ways to minimise the effects of match engine errors.

The game is technically playable, your right but, its not enjoyable far from it.

People act like errors are the end of the world because of their passion for FM and because people are fed up with the same ME problems such as the lack on central play which is a whole element of football completely missing from the ME since FM18. As much as I love FM its not good enough in my books!

I was convinced SI would of sorted out the lack of central play for FM20 especially when they were talking about improved striker movement prior to release but here we are.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Weller1980

[KUBI]

Just a reminder: This thread is not for people who are trying to convince other people and it is also not for lengthy discussions.  

If you like or dislike the current ME, it just needs one statement and no repeating posts. Thank you.

 

[anagain]

1 minute ago, Weller1980 said:

The game is technically playable, your right but, its not enjoyable far from it.

People act like errors are the end of the world because of their passion for FM and because people are fed up with the same ME problems such as the lack on central play which is a whole element of football completely missing from the ME since FM18. As much as I love FM its not good enough in my books!

Well I see they're looking at this and have marked it as a known issue. People have provided constructive feedback in the form of bug reports and SI are attempting to improve it. And that's the point. Provide feedback, but be constructive not rude. It gets better results.

Then people just need to be patient and accept that it's not an easy task to make the engine perfect.

[Weller1980]

23 minutes ago, anagain said:

Well I see they're looking at this and have marked it as a known issue. People have provided constructive feedback in the form of bug reports and SI are attempting to improve it. And that's the point. Provide feedback, but be constructive not rude. It gets better results.

Then people just need to be patient and accept that it's not an easy task to make the engine perfect.

Your right we all need to work together, and with a few big ME adjustments we will have a really good game.

I really hope SI consider the lack of central play a major issue and try to fix it before they move onto developing the ME for FM21. I'm not expecting the ME to be perfect but, we really need central play, currently its a wing play crossing simulator. Take a look at FM17 such great variety in build up play and goals scored we need some of that back for FM20.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Weller1980

[Welshace]

34 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Just a reminder: This thread is not for people who are trying to convince other people and it is also not for lengthy discussions.  

If you like or dislike the current ME, it just needs one statement and no repeating posts. Thank you.

 

Out of interest.. is there anywhere on the forum or in the general discussion forum where members can discuss generally about the current status of the game? possibly at length?

[Toonrock]

On 23/01/2020 at 18:30, anagain said:

As I said above, SI release yearly for financial reasons. If they didn't you wouldn't get the same game. They have to leave enough time to work on the next version.

Trust me when I say the grumblers are the minority. There are many, amny people out there playing this game at home and they never once shout at the forums and complain that SI don't do enough, that the game's not fullfilling its cost. The make the most of each version because they know SI do their best, or they simply don't make the effort to concentrate so hard on every little aspect of the game.

You mentioned a number of other games. Do you think Riot, Epic, Blizzard or Valve never get shouted at about their games? Ever go on reddit? All four of those developers have huge teams and a hell of a lot more money than SI.

Accept SI work hard, play the game and enjoy it for what it gives you each and every year.

SI could easily have their game released every 2 years - with a DB-update in between - ...and still make the exact same amount of money as previously.

This would bye them the time to go in-depth with the work on each new version. - And I would bet that every single person out there would buy a Database Update every 2 years.

From the sampling of 36 people, 30% would like a new FM every year - while 70% would prefer a game every 2 or 3 years... So yes; The ´grumblers´ are the majority (sadly) 

We all just want the best possible solution for a good, playable FM in the future.

The truth is; SI have an undeniably (and well-deserved) 100% monopoly on this quite narrow selection of football management simulations on the market.

- Once you´re in, you´re in! (as a FM-player), because nobody has the capacity or years and years of experience of developing this kind of unique Player Database and ME-coding.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Toonrock

[thomas_e]

Players keep changing instructions on defensive set pieces. My left winger goes from having an instruction to mark tall player and then when the game starts the role has been changed to stay up top with my striker... how is this a thing? 

[CaptainPlanet]

The magic of the FA Cup is alive!

[MorrisseyMuse]

On 21/01/2020 at 10:47, Toshef said:

I am working man I wan to play for few hours and enjoy my time. I cant spent 1 hour to prepare for each FM game like a real life football manager. I know some of the users are a bit on the younger side and are still not working so maybe they can spent hours tweaking tactics for each opponent so they can get someting out of the ME but I cant do that its not fun

This has been the underlying fact of FM for me since arguably its inception, but certainly from FM2008 onwards.  The more modern FM's are almost too realistic and in depth and that turns the simplistic joy of rattling through a season in a day or two, into a slow chore of 4-5 matches every day.  I feel like I've gained some love for the series back this year, but I can't deny I still see the series as pre and post FM 2008.