Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Mr Tonio]

15 minutes ago, Federico said:

Just one thing for those from PB: once you're in private beta you decided to help spotting issues. You accepted to get involved in the process uploading pkm if necessary, savegames or screenshots. Nobody forced you, it was your choice and only yours.

So now that you wanted to attend the ballet, you're expected to dance 

Second: if you suspect there's an issue or a bug, whatever it belongs to, report it. Don't waste time asking if you should. Do it. It won't hurt anyone.

Not quite, some people just downloaded the beta engine out of pure exasperation in the hope of getting a less messy ME and a more enjoyable playing experience. That ought to be expected.

[themadsheep2001]

25 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

There is probably a reason for that, and that reasons are stated here, raised at the public beta subforum (lack of goals, lack of central play, too effective defending and bus parking, tripping over the ball, high number of tackles, card problems, repetitive ME, unbalance of attributes), and most people that took their time to actually post feedback stopped playing fm because of these things, including me. So instead of playing the game, i've collected real world data about who and against who is scoring how much, highlighted the problem in the public beta and compared it to fm stats, and i wasn't the only one to do that, so it's not a singular problem. It shouldn't take a lot to sim one season, see the scorers and acknowledge the problem, see that these things are systematic problems and that are connected with teams sitting deep effective regardless of quality. I can't do much other than that, nor do i have the resources, and there isn't even a mark on that thread that it is under review, or that it needs more info. Blaming the customers for obvious things that have been reported not only on fm20 beta, not only on fm20, and that don't have the resources and are volunteering, doing SI job that should have been done in november is not a good move. If SI need any info, they can also ask for data, make their own threads, asking people to submit their data, but no, that isn't happening.

No one is blaming anyone for anything. People wanted a public beta, here it is. But it can't be much of a public beta if people don't get involved. People don't have to get involved, but they can't complain much if the public beta doesn't appear next FM because no one got involved. Lots of people have been clamouring for more engagement with and from SI. This is your chance for those who asked. I'm just saying we should all be making the most of it. 

[mp_87]

1 hour ago, Icy said:

What was this? imho very wrong decission by my trequartista, that should either run and try to drible or try to play one on twos with any of the two forwards or to hold the ball waiting for the team mates.

Worth uploading pkm?

 

I've seen strikers do that from the penalty spot!

But let me guess, next "pass" was then a pinpoint Crossfield ball with the weaker foot to the opposite wide man?

[Federico]

51 minuti fa, Mr Tonio ha scritto:

Not quite, some people just downloaded the beta engine out of pure exasperation in the hope of getting a less messy ME and a more enjoyable playing experience. That ought to be expected.

Then some people have misunderstood the whole thing I'm afraid.

[eye-switcher]

@themadsheep2001 So what you are saying is that they release a public beta and the people that opts in to it is to lazy to even report their findings?

Thats bloody great, then we will have the same ********* again after the next patch is release, people are coming here complaining this and that aint fixed, menawhile there is some lousy 130 threads in bug/feedback forum. Splendid then we know not to expect to much from this update either

[Tiger666]

4 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

@themadsheep2001 So what you are saying is that they release a public beta and the people that opts in to it is to lazy to even report their findings?

Thats bloody great, then we will have the same ********* again after the next patch is release, people are coming here complaining this and that aint fixed, menawhile there is some lousy 130 threads in bug/feedback forum. Splendid then we know not to expect to much from this update either

All the things people are complaining about in here already have threads in the normal bug forum. We can't be expected to start more threads in the beta bug forum about the exact same issues. Plenty of threads in the normal bug forum have been bumped to say the issues are still there in the beta.

 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Icy said:

What was this? imho very wrong decission by my trequartista, that should either run and try to drible or try to play one on twos with any of the two forwards or to hold the ball waiting for the team mates.

Worth uploading pkm?

 

100%. I'd argue one of those strikers should be making a run (what roles do they have?) but he's got to go forwards, he's already entered the most dangerous zone on the pitch. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

All the things people are complaining about in here already have threads in the normal bug forum. We can't be expected to start more threads in the beta bug forum about the exact same issues. Plenty of threads in the normal bug forum have been bumped to say the issues are still there in the beta.

 

We're on different version with various changes to the match engine between them, hence why its good to get updates and reports from the latest version. And the more the better 👍

[He can't believe he's missed it]

I think the two sides are expecting different things here.

SI seem to want another beta process of wading through errors and bugs, reporting it and coming up with various examples to report your findings.

Customers were more expecting fixes to the ME rather than spending time trying to help fix a game months after release - 

[themadsheep2001]

Also @Icy I'd probably report the retreating opposition midfield too. You're outnumbered. One should step in on the ball carrier before he gets that far. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

I think the two sides are expecting different things here.

SI seem to want another beta process of wading through errors and bugs, reporting it and coming up with various examples to report your findings.

Customers were more expecting fixes to the ME rather than spending time trying to help fix a game months after release - 

They're not different things they're part of the same process

[Tiger666]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

We're on different version with various changes to the match engine between them, hence why its good to get updates and reports from the latest version. And the more the better 👍

I don't understand what you're saying. If I submitted a bug report in December for the normal version of the game, I'm now expected to make another thread about it in the beta forum? I've submitted about 30 threads of bugs, none of them have been fixed. I'm not making yet another 30 threads in the beta forum on the same subjects. SI should be well aware of the bugs I've submitted and should know full well they haven't fixed them, I see no benefit in reporting them again.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Tiger666

[He can't believe he's missed it]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They're not different things they're part of the same process

same process but radically different stages.

As a paying customer months after release I was hoping for some glaring issues to be fixed, not to spend time trying to report back on things that may or may not be looked at, and may or may not be fixed in this release

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Tiger666 said:

I don't understand what you're saying. If I submitted a bug report in December for the normal version of the game, I'm now expected to make another thread about it in the beta forum? I've submitted about 30 threads of bugs, none of them have been fixed. I'm not making yet another 30 threads in the beta forum on the same subjects.

It's not specifically aimed at you, you know that right? It's a general point. 

[themadsheep2001]

19 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

same process but radically different stages.

As a paying customer months after release I was hoping for some glaring issues to be fixed, not to spend time trying to report back on things that may or may not be looked at, and may or may not be fixed in this release

This beta process is part of the upcoming series of fixes. Some of the errors have been dealt with. Some aren't and still require work. Some of the issues will be affected indirectly by some of the changes and that's what makes getting user reports from the beta useful. 

[Tiger666]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not specifically aimed at you, you know that right?

I'm well aware of that and you can drop the condescending comment as well thanks. We'll leave it there.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

I'm well aware of that and you can drop the condescending comment as well thanks. We'll leave it there.

Nothing condescending at all. You seemed to be taking the point rather personally

[Rien102]

Feedback, yeah!  Finally was able to complete my third season this week-end (I have life, family, kids, work) and I think I played enough to make a proper post.

First and foremost, I won’t talk about the graphics… or the ME because most of the “ME problems” that have been put forward by players, well; I don’t see or have them.  Balls over the top? Nope! but I’m not the kind to play full-on gegenpress with the highest possible D-line while only having BPDs either… (but even if it was the case, after 3 games, I would have seen the AI is telling me I’d get punished so, I would have stopped… just saying,...).  The only thing, for me, about the ME is the habit of all the strikers (whatever the role and mentality) to just stop running when a winger/fullback make a run with the ball.  Instead of the strikers running as fast as possible to go into the box, they all crawl to a stop to make sure the cross will land in a box occupied only by the opponent’s CDs…

The game itself?  I love it.  I like the management aspect and the possibility to go for a short term view of things (i.e. 1 season with a specific team) or a very long view.  This flexibility is something I like a lot!  The sheer number of leagues available is also mind boggling to me!  The introduction of the club vision is making me hope for better things to come in club building (on the AI side of things) and the new “player playing time” flexibility when negotiating contracts is something I like... a lot!

My main feedback is about the UI and, particularly, UX (i.e. experience with the UI).  Since FM18, there were major changes in the UI that, in my view, degraded the experience.  The main lens I use is the infamous “it’s only two clicks!” fallacy.  Now, a ton of things (not only in FM btw), is put under that “it’s only two clicks!” rug and it is seriously starting to infuriate me because it is a lie.  It is not “only two clicks!” because A) most of the time, there is a mouse movement between the clicks and B) if it is an operation that one player do an average of 100 times in a play session, it is 200 clicks and accompanied with the 100 mouse movements!  So, no, it is not “only two clicks!”

Today, it’s 2020 and yet… we still cannot make our own keyboard shortcuts to where we want to go by ourselves!  We can “add” shortcuts only on those SI already have done and only if they are not in conflict with the pre-set ones!  So, no, it is not like we can make our own shortcuts…  or our own side tabs… without forcing a player to do something, maybe, he doesn’t want to do.  Example?  U21/U18/B teams where you can have them on the side tab only if you take charge of the personal training of those teams!  Bringing up a contextual menu with mouse movements is not a short-cut…  I’m not even talking about the “it’s only two clicks!” fallacy here!  Accessing U21 team from the screen is: a click on sidebar icon + a mouse movement across 35% of the screen + a drop down menu (that include mouse movement inside the menu)!  If you use the contextual menu, it still is: mouse movement to the sidebar item +right click + mouse movement to the team + 1 second waiting period for menu of the team appear + mouse movement to the item you want from the chosen team + a click!  I’m sorry, we are far from the “it’s only two clicks!”

Speaking of 2020…   I cannot believe I cannot make templates in places where I would really really want to.  For example, in the scouting center.  I want to assign scouts to go after young players but the SI definition of a “young player” is not my definition: 23 yeard old is not a young player in my book.  The only way to send a scout looking for young players according to my definition, is to set the whole thing up, each and every time, from scratch.  If I want to send 10 scouts ?  I have to do it 10 times!  In the same realm, why can’t we create contracts templates?  Nope, everything must be done, by hand, each and every time.  I know this is something talked about for years now and yet…  I’m sorry to say: it’s not like templates are impossible to make because we can make some for players in the scouting center...

Speaking of the scouting center, I love the way it is done now: very visual, possibility to make a lot inside the mailbox directly… this is awesome!  One thing I would like though (and that I think a lot of players would like too), is the ability to set viewing preferences for scout meetings.  In those, the only thing you could set, to thin out the number of reports, is the % of the scout recommendation.  At the same time, the recommendations that comes in contain way more information than that and we should be able to tell our scouts to thin the amount of scouting reports based on specific pros or cons a player have/don’t have.  Here’s a little example.  I always weed out the players with the “dread big matches” tag, without exceptions.  Why can’t it be possible to put somewhere that “If X tag is present, don’t show the report to me”.  How many clicks would I save if that would be possible?  You don’t like slow players of any kind?  You can just select the “slow player” tag in the “don’t show me the report” pile.  You only want to see those who are “good in the air”?  You select that tag and Bam!, only the reports having that tag are shown!  Only a few clicks (a few intelligent clicks I might had because it creates selections based on my preferences) and suddenly, I will never see anybody except those with/without a specific tag!  How many hundreds, thousands, of scout reports have you dismissed because you, as a player, have an aversion/preference for tag #3 or tag #129!

Sorry for the wall of text… and I didn’t even mentioned stuff like the new “Staff responsibilities” page that irks me so much!  Why two pages? Three pages?  Jump here, jump there, mouse scroll up down mouse movement for drop menu + click for menu + mouse movement to the item + click again… that you have to repeat all over again for the U18 team…  I’m not even talking about the fact is written so small to be able to fit the maximum of them on the screen… and in colors…  and for your information, your choice of colors is bad beyond measure for my type of colorblindness by the way…  which I cannot change without making my own skin… because of course…

TLDR: I honestly love the game but the UI/UX is slowly, and surely, killing my fun…

Edited January 21, 2020 by Rien102

[rp1966]

36 minutes ago, Rien102 said:

 

TLDR: I honestly love the game but the UI/UX is slowly, and surely, killing my fun…

UX/UI design has been going backwards pretty much everywhere since the smartphone generation started coding. Anything that is WIMP has been made worse to use by people whose default thought process is touchscreens.

No real surprise that FM isn't exempt.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by rp1966

[kingzero47]

The amount of 1 on ones missed, last 4 penalties I have had I've missed, wingers taking their time then from a promising position, hitting a crap cross against a defender and causing me to be countered 

 

I feel like I am doing things right but the game is broken 

 

This is with the beta patch too

[Toonrock]

1 hour ago, Tiger666 said:

SI should be well aware of the bugs I've submitted and should know full well they haven't fixed them, I see no benefit in reporting them again.

Looking forward to Winter Update March 2020 - And one year from then - When I´ll be buying FM21 on 1st of March 2021 (And not one minute earlier! - And at a probably favorable price by then ).

We´re now well over 70 days in since I bought the pre-release (am playing Touch) - And haven´t actually been able to play it since then due to the ME. I am yet to start my first career game 

Have to say; It´s stunningly slow proces... Will never ever again buy the game before March (Unless SI do something radically in their thinking).

Edited January 21, 2020 by Toonrock

[RandomGuy.]

I'm Man U.

Who needs possession?

[lzab]

I am getting really frustrated with the new public beta...crossing is just awful, attacking header are awful...and it's end of January....SI should partially refund who bought FM as the ME is still not at an acceptable level.

[Double0Seven]

39 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

UX/UI design has been going backwards pretty much everywhere since the smartphone generation started coding. Anything that is WIMP has been made worse to use by people whose default thought process is touchscreens.

No real surprise that FM isn't exempt.

 

 

Not sure if this is serious. Do you seriously think UI is worse than decades ago and thats because of "the smartphone generation" or "wimps". 

And do you also think this relates to FM and the UI back in the day was better than now? Also implying FM has "wimps" and "smartphone generation" people behind their UI design? Instead of people who have serious degrees? Also not sure what the touchscreen comment is supposed to be. That would only improve usability if thats the thought process (not like it is and definitely not relevant to FM). Small phones have a lot less screen estate and it needs to be used efficiently. 

[KlaaZ]

41 minutes ago, kingzero47 said:

The amount of 1 on ones missed, last 4 penalties I have had I've missed, wingers taking their time then from a promising position, hitting a crap cross against a defender and causing me to be countered 

 

I feel like I am doing things right but the game is broken 

 

This is with the beta patch too

AI and you have exactly the same resources, so no. The game doesn't cheat you, nor is it broken. 

[bleventozturk]

This is just my opinion based on my limited observation and experience with bug reporting: I find the whole bug reporting process not rewarding, mainly because reporting a bug and providing pkm's takes time and effort, but once you do it, it feels like throwing a rock into a lake. After the first ripple effect (initial reaction from SI saying 'received, under review', or worse 'provide save game, more pkm's etc') the rock goes to the bottom of the lake and joins the other thousands of rocks, and you have no idea what happens to it. Is it being worked on? Has it been made a priority? More importantly, any progress update? No. It is really a one way street, a black hole. 

Instead, what I like is when sometimes SI actually takes initiative and asks for examples of a specific situation, because at that point you know that they made it a top priority, and there is a higher chance that the time you spent on that may actually help improve the game. SI likes creating those posts at the top of each section in the forum, so how about they create another one where they show a list of items that they are currently tackling? Otherwise it is really a huge waste of time, at no cost to SI.

[janrzm]

3 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

This is just my opinion based on my limited observation and experience with bug reporting: I find the whole bug reporting process not rewarding, mainly because reporting a bug and providing pkm's takes time and effort, but once you do it, it feels like throwing a rock into a lake. After the first ripple effect (initial reaction from SI saying 'received, under review', or worse 'provide save game, more pkm's etc') the rock goes to the bottom of the lake and joins the other thousands of rocks, and you have no idea what happens to it. Is it being worked on? Has it been made a priority? More importantly, any progress update? No. It is really a one way street, a black hole. 

Instead, what I like is when sometimes SI actually takes initiative and asks for examples of a specific situation, because at that point you know that they made it a top priority, and there is a higher chance that the time you spent on that may actually help improve the game. SI likes creating those posts at the top of each section in the forum, so how about they create another one where they show a list of items that they are currently tackling? Otherwise it is really a huge waste of time, at no cost to SI.

100% this and I think this years release has kind of exasperated the situation.

Make it quicker to report a bug, ideally from within the game.

Be more proactive once a bug is acknowledged.

Feedback and update us on major bug resolution.

I'm sure SI would say they'd rather just concentrate their time and effort on resolving bugs behind the scenes and I get that. However, some of the bigger issues in this game remain unresolved and we're in the dark about where progress has been made on them if at all. It's painful when a patch comes out and something remains unresolved and unspoken....

 

[themadsheep2001]

11 minutes ago, janrzm said:

100% this and I think this years release has kind of exasperated the situation.

Make it quicker to report a bug, ideally from within the game.

Be more proactive once a bug is acknowledged.

Feedback and update us on major bug resolution.

I'm sure SI would say they'd rather just concentrate their time and effort on resolving bugs behind the scenes and I get that. However, some of the bigger issues in this game remain unresolved and we're in the dark about where progress has been made on them if at all. It's painful when a patch comes out and something remains unresolved and unspoken....

 

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

[eye-switcher]

2 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

All the things people are complaining about in here already have threads in the normal bug forum. We can't be expected to start more threads in the beta bug forum about the exact same issues. Plenty of threads in the normal bug forum have been bumped to say the issues are still there in the beta.

 

What i see from just skimming this thread now and then are issues not previously presented. Alot of free kick goals, alot of goals from long range, i would hope that thoose issues also are in reported the Beta bug forum, here they probably have a tendency to get lost until after the release when enough people complain about them

[Tiger666]

8 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

What i see from just skimming this thread now and then are issues not previously presented. Alot of free kick goals, alot of goals from long range, i would hope that thoose issues also are in reported the Beta bug forum, here they probably have a tendency to get lost until after the release when enough people complain about them

There are threads about both issues in the beta forum.

[Bardzie]

if a player is likely to run down his contract (as imformed by ass. man), won't even negotiate a new one and I transfer list him, if he kicks up a fuss one of the interaction options should definitely mention him running down his contract. Pretty standard surely

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Bardzie

[vukigepard]

18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

All i can see is zero reception by any si staff to any info i provided on beta match engine thread about lack of goals, and i've spent quite a lot of my time today to find information. I don't even know the direction in which should i go to prove it, or are they even looking at it. From that personal perspective, i can understand why people don't want to do it and are getting frustrated

[baris28]

It is obvious SI games not very progressive about what they are making. Probably match engine guys are not convinced also. Maybe they are tied up current contracts. But seriously even the oldest wargaming hobby companies do innovate games it is so sad for FM people.

[FrazT]

8 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

All i can see is zero reception by any si staff to any info i provided on beta match engine thread about lack of goals, and i've spent quite a lot of my time today to find information. I don't even know the direction in which should i go to prove it, or are they even looking at it. From that personal perspective, i can understand why people don't want to do it and are getting frustrated

Just to clarify this point- you first posted on this issue on Monday and this is Tuesday- your input and posts are appreciated, but this is hardly a time frame for you to be complaining about receiving zero reception.

[vukigepard]

5 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Just to clarify this point- you first posted on this issue on Monday and this is Tuesday- your input and posts are appreciated, but this is hardly a time frame for you to be complaining about receiving zero reception.

To add to this, there were posts made much later than that one and had si response, and i feel like it has been ignored for i don't even know what reasons,  just like those threads in official bug forum that had been standing unanswered in months and that have been burried.

[mott303]

Have been a massive fan of FM since the start and have truly lost a pretty large chunk of my life to it haha. Most years i have read people slating it but for the most part have had no problem with it at all but this year as much as i am really loving the stuff done off the pitch i find the match engine to be a disgrace. I'm generally not someone who leaves comments but the match engine this year has wound me up that much that i had to create an account on here just to vent. I get in beta things can be a bit buggy but it's January know and i still find myself screaming at the game on a daily basis as players act in a way that no ordinary human being with even the slightest grasp on how football is played would act. For the very first time since i purchased the game back in the old Championship Manager days i'm wondering whether to bother next season (of course i'll probably still end up getting the beta as always though haha)

[Rien102]

To expand on the UX post I made earlier, I have some concrete examples to show.  First, let's take the Opposition Instructions.   Let's say you decide you'll make them for positions.  You go in the TC, go to the tab and just select them (pic 01).

You then wait for the Tactical Breefing to make them automatic like seen in pic 02...

... but the problem is, when in you enter in the match and go check, you see that the starting XI is selected to be "as instructed by your Oppoisition Instructions".  The thing is, the subs that will come in will not be "targeted" by the instructions! In the other versions, they would be but not in this one.  I tried, many many times.  The only way to have the subs "targeted" as well, basically, you have to re-enter the instructions again in the TC of the match (pic 03) by selecting all the players (XI + subs).  Annoying...

Example #2, also in match.  You go in the TC during the match and you see this (PIC 04).

You need to change something in th In Possession window so, you click on it but why do you make the "Confirm Changes" (in the bottom right) button vanish??????? [and it is like that with default skin as well].

So, to go back to the game, you are forced to close the damn and to bring the mouse completely accross the screen and make another click!  Why????  Why add clicks like that???

For me, those are things like those useless extra clicks, useless mouse movements or the perpetually colomns width you have to reset every single time you go to a window that makes me be affirmative and talk about a poor UX... 

"One more for the road" in the annoying little things category...  You have a player on loan, you want to check his game form.  You go into the window and which form does the UI present you right at start?  The form in the U21 squad of course! (PIC 06).

So, what do you have to do?  You have to go get that drop down menu to select the team the player is loaned to... every single time! (pic07).  Way can't we set a default?  At least, put the "All team" on top! sigh...

[Bigpapa42]

21 hours ago, FrazT said:

That's a fair point about widely differing offers.  I do wonder, however if this is not preferable to 3 clubs bidding for your player on the same day, all bidding the same price with the same add-ons, which happened in previous versions?

It doesn't feel buggy in the same way that some other transfer dynamics do, which is why I haven't reported it. I bet it just comes down to the individual clubs situation and how they value the player. The Russian club offering nothing has nothing to offer and just see a young player with a smidgen of potential that might be available. The 2nd division club can't afford to offer a lot more. The bigger club can afford to pay more and this specific club - Chivas - have a Mexican-player-only rule that makes them more desperate for young Mexican players. 

Its happened repeatedly with offers varying to similar levels for players in this save, but I feel its goofy rather than a problem, if that makes sense? 

[FrazT]

3 minutes ago, Bigpapa42 said:

It doesn't feel buggy in the same way that some other transfer dynamics do, which is why I haven't reported it. I bet it just comes down to the individual clubs situation and how they value the player. The Russian club offering nothing has nothing to offer and just see a young player with a smidgen of potential that might be available. The 2nd division club can't afford to offer a lot more. The bigger club can afford to pay more and this specific club - Chivas - have a Mexican-player-only rule that makes them more desperate for young Mexican players. 

Its happened repeatedly with offers varying to similar levels for players in this save, but I feel its goofy rather than a problem, if that makes sense? 

Interestingly I have just had a similar situation in my own save-  A 28 year-old Swedish international early in his contract, established first team regular and happy- valued at 14M and just received a bid of 6.5M for him- what??  Immediately after I received a bid for a 21 year old, just prompted from the reserves with a big potential but no first team experience- valued at 750K and the bid was for 18M??  I nearly fell of my chair.!  The low bid was from an Eastern European club and the high bid form the EPL.

[Pasonen]

Just a comment after reading some 1on1 bug tread. We can want all kind of things to the game but the fact is user observations and bug reports are just one of thousands dimensions in a bigger fm world picture especially concerning ME. But to the point.. I'm going work so in a hurry. 1on1 and finishing player traits should be let loose. Meaning technical strikers should round and lob keeper more. If good first touch try more onetouch shots. If good str shoot with power. flair more overheads.. now we dont see these "at all". Free them from their cages!!

Edited January 22, 2020 by Pasonen

[kiwityke1983]

I'm not using the public beta and am in fact staying offline so the game can't update as I was scared the ME would in fact get even worse than it was (I actually don't mind V2026). 

Am I right to avoid the public beta? Is it in fact worse than V2026? 

 

[kiwityke1983]

On 20/01/2020 at 22:22, bleventozturk said:

This is just based on my observation from watching youtube videos using the new beta ME since the beta wasn't released for FM Touch, but it seems like there is actually plenty of central play and goals produced from open play, when you play with more attacking mentality. So, maybe the ME is perfectly capable of producing more realistic play and scorelines, but the AI in general is too conservative? Hypothetically, if you take Barcelona for example, and if you can have Messi scoring 30+ goals, to me that would mean that maybe it is the AI's mentality levels that need to be tweaked, and not the ME itself? Just a thought. 

The match starts around 12:40 in the video below. This guys has his team producing lots of chances and his strikers scoring a lot, using an attacking mentality. 

 

I've been saying for months that the biggest issue with the ME is in fact the AI and the fact it is perfectly happy to lose 1-0 rather than even attempt to win a game of football. 

It means you end up with games where you end up with 30+ shots and maybe 1 goal as the shots are all fairly low quality due to the AI just defending with 11 men refusing to leave their own 6 yard box. 

[duesouth]

12 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

I don't understand what you're saying. If I submitted a bug report in December for the normal version of the game, I'm now expected to make another thread about it in the beta forum? I've submitted about 30 threads of bugs, none of them have been fixed. I'm not making yet another 30 threads in the beta forum on the same subjects. SI should be well aware of the bugs I've submitted and should know full well they haven't fixed them, I see no benefit in reporting them again.

I have to admit, I haven't done pkm's for this beta.  I would say my feelings with the ME are frustration and disillusionment - and that has me pretty far from being engaged.  I do also think that the pre-release beta was a different beast - given the short life cycle of FM20, this should be a mature product.  The ME is clearly not.

I did raise pkm's for the first beta, release ME and the December update - and 2 points:

1) I got zero response from those bugs/issues I raised (see @bleventozturk's well made post);

2) a lot of the common issues are still a problem - some went away, but seem to have come back - as you said, Tiger666, do we really have to raise them again?

For me that lack of engagement when I did take the time to take notes during a game of incident times - and then upload pkm's - plus the same problems still being there, really made me not bother this time.  I don't have that much time to play the game - so doing this really eats into it.

I did leave feedback here though.

However, overall, I fear that many customers have just stopped playing.  I mean last week, I got home from work and spent 4.5 hours staring at my home monitor, after staring at my work monitor all day.  The reason?  I was in the off-season and putting my team together, getting scouting reports, having players on trial, getting team reports - that was great - I loved it!  The next evening, the season started and I have to admit I was gutted.  The games are a drag.  I played a couple of games and did something else.  Now, I'm still pushing through as I'm doing the San Marino Challenge and it's a long one - I really want to give it a go this year.  If I wasn't so determined to give this challenge a real go, I wouldn't be playing.  Heck, I played a Serie C playoff quarter-final the other day on commentary only!!

So, I think SI have some bridges to build - and a public beta, which for me isn't great (I've opted out already), of what should be a mature product isn't going to cut it for many.  The first step is for someone at the top to say sorry and to then go about getting this sorted.  Own the problem and then resolve it.

FM19 was my first FM - and I pre-ordered FM20 in what wasn't a tough decision despite money being a little tight.  Zero chance I pre-order/buy FM21 on release.

[fidelitywars]

24 minutes ago, duesouth said:

I was in the off-season and putting my team together, getting scouting reports, having players on trial, getting team reports - that was great - I loved it!  The next evening, the season started and I have to admit I was gutted.  The games are a drag.  I played a couple of games and did something else.

One thousand times this. Everything outside of the ME, especially the database, is great but watching the same tedious, repetitive, soporific game time after time is just agony and completely ruins the game.

[KingCanary]

So FM20 is the first new version of the game I've bought since 17- not through choice, I just didn't have a powerful enough computer to make it work. This season I bought myself a new laptop with the express plan of having some significant FM time. Unfortunately life somewhat got in the way and now I'm just getting into the game and I've got to say I'm pretty...meh.

There are some nice changes, graphically the game looks better, I like the dynamics and hierarchy elements and the tactics creator is a nice touch.

However...

- The dev center- it took me ages to find my u23's and u18's as a fairly important part of the game is hidden under one menu at the bottom of the sidebar. Not a fan.

- Scouting- previously when I asked my scouts to look at certain players I got a message saying it had started and updates each time the player was watched/when the assignment was finished. I don't get these now, instead they are burried in the 'scouting meetings' which is mainly me dismissing irrelevant players I've got minimal interest in.  I quite like the way these are grouped but if I've specifically asked my scouts to look at a certain player then I want updates to my inbox, not those just being tucked away with everyone else.

- The match engine- it isn't a good sign that I'm barely out of preseason and I'm already concerned at how repetitive the match engine is. Every game I give up 2 or 3 chances where a long punt plays a striker in with acres of space. Player decision making, particularity on the wings is infuriating. Some of the set ups for defending set pieces are baffling. 

So I'm a bit underwhelmed right now.

[Novem9]

What if change mentality for tactical styles? I know there is no time to test and integrate in 20.3 but for next editions - FM21 and later. I asked about mentality changes as some members too but this is concrete idea. Every mentality has specific rules and behavior, template for every line/position. But mentality based on risks and we already discussed about dual meaning of every mentality based on risks. 

Every tactical style has specific description and basis, so its no chance for dual meaning and any type of confusing.

We have the list of styles since FM19 and every AI manager has his favourite style in profile too, so its already linked. 

 

upd - And I really dislike current AI tactical decisions during match.
For example I play vs team which manager plays direct counter style. His mentality cautious. But if I win 1-0 in last minutes AI change his mentality for positive/attacking or even very attacking. I see a certain contradiction in this. AI's mentality switch killed his link for tactical style imo

Edited January 22, 2020 by Novem9

[esca]

Will there be an update for this public beta ME so that we can test  whether all the bugs that been reported have been fixed?

[bcereus]

2 hours ago, fidelitywars said:

One thousand times this. Everything outside of the ME, especially the database, is great but watching the same tedious, repetitive, soporific game time after time is just agony and completely ruins the game.

The reason for this is because it is repetitive and the patterns of play are similar across all teams. The variety has been killed. I don't know what happened from FM 19 onwards but I would bet significant change has been made to the ME post FM 18 (which isn't that great itself either). It's become rigid and it feels like you are fighting the ME  to do what you want most of the time in these iterations.

[SebastianRO]

6 minutes ago, bcereus said:

The reason for this is because it is repetitive and the patterns of play are similar across all teams. The variety has been killed. I don't know what happened from FM 19 onwards but I would bet significant change has been made to the ME post FM 18 (which isn't that great itself either). It's become rigid and it feels like you are fighting the ME  to do what you want most of the time in these iterations.

That being said, compared to FM19's and FM20's ME .... FM18 is cotton candy, ice-cream and caramel

Edited January 22, 2020 by SebastianRO

[Luizinho]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

upd - And I really dislike current AI tactical decisions during match.
For example I play vs team which manager plays direct counter style. His mentality cautious. But if I win 1-0 in last minutes AI change his mentality for positive/attacking or even very attacking. I see a certain contradiction in this. AI's mentality switch killed his link for tactical style imo

This is completely natural. A team that is losing with 10 mins to go, will always look to push forward and play more attacking to try get a result. The only circumstance where a team would continue to play cautious would be over two legs.