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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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The devs are not working at the weekends I assume otherwise an update on this matter would have been very much welcome.

Its been 3 weeks now since the last update from Neil, please just so we can stop speculating on this.

But I guess it can also be so easy as they havent got anything to report.

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58 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

SI's last statement says that it is unsure that a patch will be released before march.

That is incorrect - the whole "March" suggestion was pure speculation from users who don't work for SI, and if people could stop posting misinformation like that as if it was fact, that'd be great.

As per Neil's last post:

They didn't believe they would get a patch out before New Years, which was correct, due to the holiday period. SI have never said anything about potentially not having a further patch out until March.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb JordanMillward_1:

That is incorrect - the whole "March" suggestion was pure speculation from users who don't work for SI, and if people could stop posting misinformation like that as if it was fact, that'd be great.

As per Neil's last post:

They didn't believe they would get a patch out before New Years, which was correct, due to the holiday period. SI have never said anything about potentially not having a further patch out until March.

What i said is correct. A member of SI wrote last week in the bug section that a release before march is unsecure and that's a fact.

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8 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

What i said is correct. A member of SI wrote last week in the bug section that a release before march is unsecure and that's a fact.

Cut the speculation and word twisting please. There is no date yet for an update and suggestions otherwise is pure speculation.

We don't make announcements when they will be due to the nature of software development. It'll be ready and out when it's ready, and only then will there for sure be an announcement.

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Can this particular media question be improved on for FM21? Every time I get a player in on trial - or most, at least - I get asked this question. I reply the same way because that honestly is why I get players in on trial. Then my inbox always comes back to me telling me I'm cagey with the media.

I'm not cagey, they're just idiots.

I see the benefit of the question, but some variation would be nice.

idioticmediaFM.thumb.png.31dbcfd4bd12512944d44a5ff8b5483b.png

Edited by anagain
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1 hour ago, Lucas said:

Cut the speculation and word twisting please. There is no date yet for an update and suggestions otherwise is pure speculation.

We don't make announcements when they will be due to the nature of software development. It'll be ready and out when it's ready, and only then will there for sure be an announcement.

The only thing I don't understand with this, and I don't understand software development so excuse my ignorance, is that 

Quote

It gives us great pleasure to reveal that Football Manager 2020 will launch both digitally and physically for PC and Mac on November 19th

That was announced on 14th October 2019. A month before the game is released you know it will be ready? Yet you have no idea when a patch to make the game playable will be ready? 

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11 minutes ago, davehanson said:

The only thing I don't understand with this, and I don't understand software development so excuse my ignorance, is that 

That was announced on 14th October 2019. A month before the game is released you know it will be ready? Yet you have no idea when a patch to make the game playable will be ready? 

Because they have agreements/obligations to other parties to release the game. Patches are more of an optional thing for them.  They will continue supporting - to make more customers happy, and also any improvement in patches is also an improvement/investment for future versions of the game, but they are not obligated, and for sure they don't want to corner themselves by committing to a date. That's understandable imo, but like many have said before, we are being left in the dark a bit too much. Would be nice to see a weekly progress list, WHILE they are working on a patch. 2-3 months is a long time to wait with no news.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Lucas:

Cut the speculation and word twisting please. There is no date yet for an update and suggestions otherwise is pure speculation.

We don't make announcements when they will be due to the nature of software development. It'll be ready and out when it's ready, and only then will there for sure be an announcement.

I find it disrespectful that you imply me twisting words.

I didn't twist words. 

A User asked if the fix will be released before the traditional march Patch and it was answered by a SI member:"we're unsure at the moment but we will anounce it when we know"

And that's a fact.

So if u have a communication problem in your  enterprise solve it there and don't imply me that i would twist words.

Edited by Sisamom
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My overall feedback for what it is worth... best and only real option on the market for football management sims. The hours, days, weeks, months etc. of dedicated work that go into building something like this shouldn't be underestimated. The player research year on year plus league and team research... then the player roles and tactics, making sure the latest developments in real life can be portrayed in a video game... It takes dedication I am sure. 

Having said all that, I feel the last couple of years, there seems to have been so many bugs, especially with the match engine. I sometimes feel looking in from the outside that the real work is put into the database rather than the match engine. I am not saying there isn't any development, of course not (always more player simulations/actions), but my concern would be FM have concentrated on the interaction side of the game (the glossy part, albeit, trying to continuously make the game as realistic as possible) resulting in the ball being dropped slightly on the ME. The ME, for me, is the most fundamental part... If you set-up a team and spends hours scouting and buying players, for it to come undone by some of the bugs in the ME, what is the point? 

I may of course be completely wrong, not many people on here are privy to what goes on behind the scenes, but the amount of match changing/defining bugs in this years release have made it unplayable for me. There are always going to be issues, some of which do not rear their heads until 1000's of hours have been spent playing it. Disappointingly though, we are never sure on when they will be fixed/an update will be available. 

For now, I go back to FM19... but I am looking forward to playing FM20 again when some fixes have been released as I liked the changes that had been made and as always, it is the best management game around... others have come and gone and got nowhere near this. 

Edited by LCFCEaves31
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6 dakika önce, Sisamom said:

I find it disrespectful that you imply me twisting words.

I didn't twist words. 

A User asked if the fix will be released before the traditional march Patch and it was answered by a SI member:"we're unsure at the moment but we will anounce it when we know"

And that's a fact.

So if u have a communication problem in your  enterprise solve it there and don't imply me that i would twist words.

You're right. It was me and here it is

 

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I've paused my save now at the end of the season whilst I await the new patch. Hopefully it's patched sooner rather than later to a level that allows the ME to be enjoyable and fun to interact with, if not, FM20 will 100% go down as my least favourite iteration so far, despite the fact outside of the ME, it's brilliant. Here's waiting.

Keep up the good work.

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2 minutes ago, stevemc said:

I've paused my save now at the end of the season whilst I await the new patch. Hopefully it's patched sooner rather than later to a level that allows the ME to be enjoyable and fun to interact with, if not, FM20 will 100% go down as my least favourite iteration so far, despite the fact outside of the ME, it's brilliant. Here's waiting.

Keep up the good work.

I am at the same place right now. Finally finished my first season where I vastly overachieved and won the Turkish first division (one below premier), but I can't find the will to go back and continue at the moment, with all the known issues really limiting my approach to the ME, and also because I vastly overachieved with a well balanced, normal tactic that shouldn't be exploiting anything, yet with a roster that was expected to fight against relegation I won the league :rolleyes: 

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56 minutes ago, davehanson said:

The only thing I don't understand with this, and I don't understand software development so excuse my ignorance, is that 

That was announced on 14th October 2019. A month before the game is released you know it will be ready? Yet you have no idea when a patch to make the game playable will be ready? 

Because the release date is a completely different situation to a patch. The release date has a great deal of input from the publisher. Patches, and changes to the game after release, are entirely down to the development team.

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1 minute ago, Os said:

Can we have a post downvote made available please.

 

Why, so that anyone who wants to rant and rave can downvote any post they don't agree with?

The worst thing about reddit is the downvote, but it's more necessary there because the number of users makes moderation harder. The downvote is not needed here because moderators will take care of posts that add nothing.

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12 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I am at the same place right now. Finally finished my first season where I vastly overachieved and won the Turkish first division (one below premier), but I can't find the will to go back and continue at the moment, with all the known issues really limiting my approach to the ME, and also because I vastly overachieved with a well balanced, normal tactic that shouldn't be exploiting anything, yet with a roster that was expected to fight against relegation I won the league :rolleyes: 

Ha somebody's mood has changed? :D

I agree there's nothing worse than huge overachiement, but how do you know your tactics was balanaced and normal?

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13 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Ha somebody's mood has changed? :D

I agree there's nothing worse than huge overachiement, but how do you know your tactics was balanaced and normal?

Haha yes, it did :) 

I was able to ignore the issues since they were not happening a lot in my setup, but vastly overachieving killed my motivation. I am not a tactical expert of the ME by any means, and I did what I always do with every new FM and setup a quick and dirty, reasonably balanced 4-3-3. If I finished somewhere in mid table with this team, it would still be big overachievement, but I won the league mate, and it wasn't satisfying. In my last few matches I was almost hoping for some losses or draws, but I kept winning 1-0 or 2-1 and clinched the title. I was going through some of my opponents' players in those matches, and most teams had far superior players, so why can't they beat me when I am not doing anything special :(

I never had any of those 30+ shots games. In fact, I don't think I ever had more than 20 tbh. My stats were always close to real life. My tactic wasn't creating those long balls over the defence, and I did not allow the other team to do it either. I just had this crazy high CCC conversion rate (finished the year around 70-75%), and I don't know why.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I was going through some of my opponents' players in those matches, and most teams had far superior players, so why can't they beat me when I am not doing anything special

Yeah I find playing against better teams really easy in last few FMs, I've seen many people complain about it. But one thing I know AI and TC need change and improvment.   

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38 minutes ago, anagain said:

Because the release date is a completely different situation to a patch. The release date has a great deal of input from the publisher. Patches, and changes to the game after release, are entirely down to the development team.

Thanks, would like someone from SI to answer though.

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10 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Haha yes, it did :) 

I was able to ignore the issues since they were not happening a lot in my setup, but vastly overachieving killed my motivation. I am not a tactical expert of the ME by any means, and I did what I always do with every new FM and setup a quick and dirty, reasonably balanced 4-3-3. If I finished somewhere in mid table with this team, it would still be big overachievement, but I won the league mate, and it wasn't satisfying. In my last few matches I was almost hoping for some losses or draws, but I kept winning 1-0 or 2-1 and clinched the title. I was going through some of my opponents' players in those matches, and most teams had far superior players, so why can't they beat me when I am not doing anything special :(

 

 

You had the overall best balance with your system, with the right players.
Doesn't matter how good the players are when they're faced with a superior system.
Often it is keeping it simple, logical and balanced that is the key. You don't have to have world beaters to beat the world. You don't have to do anything special all the time to acheive something special.

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6 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Thanks, would like someone from SI to answer though.

Why? Because you don't want to accept that the answer is as is it is? I've followed gaming a long time and that is how it works. Publishers will have a big say in the release date of a game, even so far as to say it will release on a certain date. That release date can be given many weeks in advance. 

Game development is not an exact science. Coding of the FM match engine is not a situation that can be given an exact date.

Edited by anagain
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1 minute ago, roykela said:

Often it is keeping it simple, logical and balanced that is the key. You don't have to have world beaters to beat the world. You don't have to do anything special all the time to acheive something special.

What's the point then?What's the point of all those instructions? I keep hearing this also from mods, looks like AI complicates things too much? Or is it something else? 

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3 minutes ago, roykela said:

You had the overall best balance with your system, with the right players.
Doesn't matter how good the players are when they're faced with a superior system.
Often it is keeping it simple, logical and balanced that is the key. You don't have to have world beaters to beat the world. You don't have to do anything special all the time to acheive something special.

I hear what you are saying, and I agree that it was the system that overachieved, and it was the system that created the 75% conversion ratio on CCC. But should it be that effective? I don't think so. It is like winning the premier league with Norwich City in first season. Where do you go from there? 

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1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

I hear what you are saying, and I agree that it was the system that overachieved, and it was the system that created the 75% conversion ratio on CCC. But should it be that effective? I don't think so. It is like winning the premier league with Norwich City in first season. Where do you go from there? 

Maybe it was game's reward for playing normal tactics and not exploiting ME?

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21 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Haha yes, it did :) 

I was able to ignore the issues since they were not happening a lot in my setup, but vastly overachieving killed my motivation. I am not a tactical expert of the ME by any means, and I did what I always do with every new FM and setup a quick and dirty, reasonably balanced 4-3-3. If I finished somewhere in mid table with this team, it would still be big overachievement, but I won the league mate, and it wasn't satisfying. In my last few matches I was almost hoping for some losses or draws, but I kept winning 1-0 or 2-1 and clinched the title. I was going through some of my opponents' players in those matches, and most teams had far superior players, so why can't they beat me when I am not doing anything special :(

I never had any of those 30+ shots games. In fact, I don't think I ever had more than 20 tbh. My stats were always close to real life. My tactic wasn't creating those long balls over the defence, and I did not allow the other team to do it either. I just had this crazy high CCC conversion rate (finished the year around 70-75%), and I don't know why.

 

 

Thats very well played with a 4-3-3. Did you have 3 strikers? Because i think 4-3-3 with 3 strikers is one of the worst formations atm.

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5 minutes ago, anagain said:

Why? Because you don't want to accept that the answer is as is it is? I've followed gaming a long time and that is how it works. Publishers will have a big say in the release date of a game, even so far as to say it will release on a certain date. That release date can be given many weeks in advance. 

Game development is not an exact science. Coding of the FM match engine is not a situation that can be given an exact date.

Because if what you are saying is true and the publishers effectively set the release date then what you are saying is that SI will release on that date no matter the state of the game. As long as it actually loads up then it is going to get released. 

And that is exactly what seems has happened this year, but thanks for clarifying it...........

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1 minute ago, Pasonen said:

Thats very well played with a 4-3-3. Did you have 3 strikers? Because i think 4-3-3 with 3 strikers is one of the worst formations atm.

He said he played normal tactics.

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1 minute ago, Pasonen said:

Thats very well played with a 4-3-3. Did you have 3 strikers? Because i think 4-3-3 with 3 strikers is one of the worst formations atm.

No, 1 DLF(S), 1 winger(A), 1 inverted winger(A), with small tweaks here and there. 2 center mids, 1 defensive mid. 

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Just now, davehanson said:

Because if what you are saying is true and the publishers effectively set the release date then what you are saying is that SI will release on that date no matter the state of the game. As long as it actually loads up then it is going to get released. 

And that is exactly what seems has happened this year, but thanks for clarifying it...........

We are not living in Alice in wonderlan :D

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1 minute ago, Mitja said:

What's the point then?What's the point of all those instructions? I keep hearing this also from mods, looks like AI complicates things too much? Or is it something else? 

Don't know about the AI, so i can't comment on that.
The point of all those instructions is to use them when you need to emphasize certain instructions.

Let's say i set up a team and i want them to do some high, intense pressing.
There's a lot to consider here but i'll keep it simple just for this example.
I set up everything i need to and start playing the matches. I notice that everything works out fine apart from a couple of things.
My players start engaging pressing a bit too late and not as quickly as i had imagined.
I'll then give the instructions to engage higher up together with more urgency.

Now i'm happy with with the pressing but i realise my instructions encourages my players to really dive into tackles.
I give them another instruction to stay on their feet.

And so on.
In theory you can have the team play exactly the way you want them to by not giving your team any instructions, if the players within your tactics are already performing the way you want to.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb akinozcan:

You're right. It was me and here it is

 

Thanks, i looked for it but couldn't find it again. That just proves what other Users wrote before - SI has a communication problem but not only with users also within the enterprise.

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1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

No, 1 DLF(S), 1 winger(A), 1 inverted winger(A), with small tweaks here and there. 2 center mids, 1 defensive mid. 

Ok. If you got promoted and want challenge I suggest you try 10 first games in next division. If your teams reputation and finances are not very high it will be tough. :)

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9 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I hear what you are saying, and I agree that it was the system that overachieved, and it was the system that created the 75% conversion ratio on CCC. But should it be that effective? I don't think so. It is like winning the premier league with Norwich City in first season. Where do you go from there? 

You can try to improve your team for the long term.
If you have overacheived it should be harder getting your team to perform the same way next season.

It's pretty much what i did with my real life team when i was a coach.
They were far away from being the best players. I kept it simple. Had them play a system that suited the players. They won the league, a cup and got a 2nd place in the regional finals.
On paper they had no business having that kind of success. But they did.

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3 minutes ago, roykela said:

You can try to improve your team for the long term.
If you have overacheived it should be harder getting your team to perform the same way next season.

It's pretty much what i did with my real life team when i was a coach.
They were far away from being the best players. I kept it simple. Had them play a system that suited the players. They won the league, a cup and got a 2nd place in the regional finals.
On paper they had no business having that kind of success. But they did.

Congrats, but that was your opinion of your players' talent level, and maybe you were wrong and underestimated them, whereas in FM it is based on math/numbers. 

Fwiw, I have never overachieved in FM like this before, and I am not trying anything new in this version. I really suspect there is something wrong here.

Edited by bleventozturk
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5 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

Ok. If you got promoted and want challenge I suggest you try 10 first games in next division. If your teams reputation and finances are not very high it will be tough. :)

I'm sure that line of thinking was the reason why he chose current team.

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8 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

Ok. If you got promoted and want challenge I suggest you try 10 first games in next division. If your teams reputation and finances are not very high it will be tough. :)

But it was already a huge challenge, and that's why I picked that team to manage to begin with. There is no transfer budget, reputation is already low for the division that I was in. It was one of the weakest teams (and poorest club) in that division.

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9 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Because if what you are saying is true and the publishers effectively set the release date then what you are saying is that SI will release on that date no matter the state of the game. As long as it actually loads up then it is going to get released. 

And that is exactly what seems has happened this year, but thanks for clarifying it...........

Well SI will work with the publisher to agree somewhat on a release date, and there will be some understanding of whether the game will be ready. Saying that, publishers will want a specific release date in advance. It's a much discussed area within gaming, with some publishers being judged harsher than others. I'm sure there is a good working relationship between Sega and SI, but as the game has released early November for many years then there will likely be an ssumption and agreement with Sega that that date will be targeted.

I believe you are trying to make it look like SI are intentionally releasing a defective product on to the market, but I believe that couldn't be further from the truth. As I said games development will never be perfect, and bugs will appear in a release version that have been hard to spot in development or even beta. This particular issue seemed to pop up after the start of beta. SI will have the exact timeline, but all this pallaver on the forums was not around at the start of beta.

You have to understand how coding of the match engine in this game works. Announcing a date for a patch and annoucing the release date of a game are two very different prospects. Fixing the match engine is not just a case of pushing a few buttons or tweaking a slider. The fact that this issue has even popped up after the start of beta is testament to that. 

Stop trying to be a wise guy and understand how the development process and the fixing of bugs actually works before you dig for reasons to implicate SI in some sort of treasonous release of the game.

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the whole long ball over the top thing is so tiring and repetitve

 

3/4 chances per games are just punts up the pitch. Doesn't matter where I put the defensive line. Doesn't matter if I tell my team to play extremly short passes. Been playing CM/FM for a long long time and this feels like one of the worst match engines imo

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Condition attribute of twenty for six users, who posted together more than 1000 time in this thread. 

Please leave some space for other users. :)

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17 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Congrats, but that was your opinion of your players' talent level, and maybe you were wrong and underestimated them, whereas in FM it is based on math/numbers. 

Fwiw, I have never overachieved in FM like this before, and I am not trying anything new in this version. I really suspect there is something wrong here.

After watching them for a few years before i took charge.
They were known for losing 8-0, 10-0 etc.
They were on the rise when i took over (which came out of the blue), managing a couple of wins.
When i took over we managed a mid-table position in my first year. That was already overacheiving.
Season after we pummelled almost every team, bar one, with 8-0 results and all that jazz.

All i did was telling them how to play in order to acheive what they wanted. They followed my ideas and instructions and the rest is history.

If you had seen the players you would've instantly known what i was talking about.
A goalie who was afraid of the ball. A defender that needed the entire defensive half to turn with the ball when running (not very agile one, to put it that way) and so on.
There were 2, maybe 3 players i mainly had to rely on. They were 2, fairly talented, midfielders.

But the entire point was. Even the worst team can perform miracles if you find the balance that makes everything click.
Sometimes by thorough planning. Other times by accident, or a combination.
Keeping it simple is underrated and overlooked too often.

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2 hours ago, roykela said:

You had the overall best balance with your system, with the right players.
Doesn't matter how good the players are when they're faced with a superior system.
Often it is keeping it simple, logical and balanced that is the key. You don't have to have world beaters to beat the world. You don't have to do anything special all the time to acheive something special.

what do you mean when you say about the quality of the players not mattering when playing a superior system cos in the real world it's the quality of the players that matters most basically

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1 minute ago, akkm said:

what do you mean when you say about the quality of the players not mattering when playing a superior system cos in the real world it's the quality of the players that matters most basically

It can make a difference in individual performance, of course.
But overall even the best players can be rendered next to useless in a system that can't utilize them correctly.
If you then have an opposition that manage to take advantage of it the player is next to useless.

Not the best example but imagine Özil at Arsenal in real life.
I'm not his biggest fan but i can't deny that he possesses some amazing qualities.
Emery didn't know how to utilize it, Wenger "forgot" to use him properly. Özil was affected by that and became very lazy.
With Özil on the pitch it was like playing with 10 men.
Another factor is the opposition. They make sure he's isolated and taken care of. All of a sudden you have a player who is pretty much useless.
Even though he's playing mostly against players that are inferior.

When Arteta came in he re-vitalized Özil. Partly because of his man management, partly because of the system he's being used in.
Özil appears like a completely different player in a system that utilizes his strengths more and better.

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