Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[MatthewS17]

The PL today was a perfect example of the idea that 1v1s are flawed in this game. Liverpool had two that were basically 1v1s and scored both. Think Maddison scored one as well. 

On the other hand, Wolves had several and didn't  to score any. My point that you cannot have a one size fits all approach as each player is fundamentally different. That's what separates the very good to the world class, in many respects. 

[Alekos]

14 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

The PL today was a perfect example of the idea that 1v1s are flawed in this game. Liverpool had two that were basically 1v1s and scored both. Think Maddison scored one as well. 

On the other hand, Wolves had several and didn't  to score any. My point that you cannot have a one size fits all approach as each player is fundamentally different. That's what separates the very good to the world class, in many respects. 

Mane just missed one...

[herne79]

49 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

West Ham obviously haven't clocked on?

Seems realistic to me .

[andu1]

17 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

The PL today was a perfect example of the idea that 1v1s are flawed in this game. Liverpool had two that were basically 1v1s and scored both. Think Maddison scored one as well. 

On the other hand, Wolves had several and didn't  to score any. My point that you cannot have a one size fits all approach as each player is fundamentally different. That's what separates the very good to the world class, in many respects. 

Mane and Kean must be running on Me 2026 to miss those 1v1 chances. 😏

[JordanMilly]

18 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Mane just missed one...

Too many over the top direct passes leading to goals too 

[MatthewS17]

23 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Mane and Kean must be running on Me 2026 to miss those 1v1 chances. 😏

Yeah, in my defence, those occurred after I typed that. However my case can be made with Origi. 

[Tiger666]

I'm finding it almost impossible to stop long balls over the top. On Balanced mentality, lower defensive line and still too much space behind my defence.

[WilltheWolf92]

Pretty nice to see that the UEFA Europa Conference League is included

[ajw10]

I'm sorry, but SI have somehow managed to make this game worse, and I barely played it at all due to how bad it was.

It's hard to hold onto possession because players just hoof it, defenders cannot defend the high ball but it's fine as strikers cannot score 1v1s anyway.

What I am seeing does not resemble football at all. 

Aubameyang has had 21 shots over the last 4 games. I reckon at least 12 have been 1v1s. No goals scored.

Edited December 4, 2019 by ajw10

[robinthebest]

ok I think I am finally giving up on this game, after playing around 25 to 30 games after the update, the ME still looks so bad, long ball over the top back at it again.

buying the game since FM 08, last year is bad, fullback always crossing into opponent's leg, hoping for an update this year, there are none in the ME, in the beta it's long ball over the top, in the release its side netting, 20.2 is back to long ball over the top again, is SI think their customers are dumb?

[Rakosi]

36 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I'm finding it almost impossible to stop long balls over the top. On Balanced mentality, lower defensive line and still too much space behind my defence.

You can't stop them really because they are bugged, regardless of what some in here keep saying or inferring.  The only way to effectively stop them is to stop playing any kind of fun or attacking football, and sit back as much as possible.  Defenders act as if they have no mentals and dribbling is still overpowered because when defenders do close down they just run towards and through the attacker, missing them entirely while the commentary says that "Attacker shows Defender and clean set of heels..." or something along those lines.  i often get a center back running towards a player to close them down before the long ball reaches them only for their press to miss the player entirely place my defender several yards on the wrong side of the attacker.  The runs are generally unstoppable because defence cannot track balls or players as well as attackers can, and this is true also for balls over the top.  The defenders don't react to the ball at all.  They try follow the player which they can't because strikers can latch onto those over-the-top long balls at full sprint as the ball comes over their shoulder time after time.  I played about 30 games against the same Bournemouth side yesterday to test different systems and the only tactic they were playing was "hoof it through over the defence for Callum Wilson to run onto".  You have similar problems with other teams that play with any kind of high-pace striker; their reading of the game or the vision of the passer is way, way too overtuned in comparison of the ability of defenders to do anything about it.  Like you, I tried all different levels of defensive line, closing down, marking.  Some methods reduced the frequency but they still happened at least 3-4 times on a good game (10+ CCC's on the worst games), and it relegates you to only playing one type of football to try shut it down, which is boring.

[Iwabik]

I really had high hopes for this patch, especially because according to patch notes, it addressed the most reported issues. But I have to say, I'm really disappointed.

 

First of all, the long balls over the top. They were an issue before but now it's just insane. All I see are one on ones after hoofing the ball. At this point the game feels like "hoof it simulator". Defenders don't seem to react to the ball until it hits the ground. Instead of anticipating the trajectory of the ball they just run towards the attacker or completely ignore everything that's going on. Oh, I'm not angry because it happens to me but... despite playing with high line and high pressing intensity it's much worse for AI and my strikers/wingers get many chances due to long balls over the top every game.

 

But the scores are all right because nobody can score those chances. I was hoping that this update will make my striker useful in any way but that's not the case. What's the point of having a top quality striker if he can't score any good chance? Honestly, I feel like I could play my keeper at the top and it wouldn't make any difference. I feel more scares when opposition have ball in crossing position then when someone is running free on goal for the third time in a game.

 

One thing this update has fixed, at least for me, is the side net shooting. It seems to be gone. 

 

I'm not sure what I should do next, go back to 19 or any previous versions because I love this game so much or just stop playing at all hoping that the game will be fixed any time soon. What I am sure is that I'm not going to preorder any more FMs.

[avocadoavocado]

Played a few games with the new patch. Huuuuuge improvement. Wide play problems resolved, as far as I can see. Nor (so far at least) does the AI, when put under pressure, just resort to kicking my players until they have 2 or 3 (or, on one occasion, 4) players sent off.

True that there are a lot more long balls over the top, even from players who 'Play short simple passes,' etc. Not a problem for me as I've been playing a direct tactic anyway and previously the problem was with not getting bogged down in midfield congestion. Will try dialing directness settings back a bit and see if it becomes a bit more balanced.

[Tiger666]

Yeah this is awful SI. Balanced mentality, much lower defensive line. It's against Brighton, do I really have to go defensive mentality against teams like Brighton just to prevent long balls over my defence?

 

These are world class defenders that just don't seem to react.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Tiger666

[TheInvisibleMan]

Just now, Tiger666 said:

Yeah this is awful SI. Balanced mentality, much lower defensive line. It's against Brighton, do I really have to go defensive mentality against teams like Brighton just to prevent long balls over my defence?

 

These are world class defenders that just don't seem to react.

 

At least they finished the 1v1s! 

[extremeskins04]

Have the shots into the sidenetting been fixed?

[Glen_Runciter]

12 hours ago, ChrisCo said:

Christ they just released a patch yesterday, what other games developer would release a patch as quickly? 

No pleasing some people.

Yes, it's completely unreasonable to expect they release a version with good AI.

What other game developer does that?

Some people... :/

[GunmaN1905]

89th minute, 0-0:

But yeah, finishing is improved and accurate.

Because this player would really bottle a chance like that.
Easy lay off to the right.
And why would the player to the left even run so close to him and be in offside?

The guy who didn't pass, for reference.

And because a guy will 10 finishing and 12 technique, long shots will obviously perfectly place it in the corner from the edge of the box in 92nd minute for 0-1.

I feel like an utter moron for playing this game at this hour.

Edited December 5, 2019 by GunmaN1905

[SeaCarrot]

I was very critical of this match engine on release, but it is much much better now. Not perfect, but I do consider it more than playable finally. 

 

Sidenetting shots massively reduced, better 1 on 1s. Only remaining big thing is the through balls over the top, fell a bit helpless in stopping them tactically. Hopefully this is being looked at.

[GOODNAME]

I think this  is the best ME so far in fm20

I hope in the next  patch  in March they will fix  the long balls over the top 

But I can  finally play and enjoy  the ME

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

The PL today was a perfect example of the idea that 1v1s are flawed in this game. Liverpool had two that were basically 1v1s and scored both. Think Maddison scored one as well. 

On the other hand, Wolves had several and didn't  to score any. My point that you cannot have a one size fits all approach as each player is fundamentally different. That's what separates the very good to the world class, in many respects. 

That said, one game including a few 1vs1 wouldn't be a sample size. That'd be a dice roll. Which would apply to FM as well. Seen guys a few times raging already that supposedly lesser Forwards had converted it all against them in a specific match.

What you argue about player is still true, but the difference on a Level of Play isn't as big as oft perceived. Finishing a Chance is a skill. However, if you compete at a Level with Liverpool, your forwards must be pretty good at what they are doing already. Usually they still belong to the best athlethes of their Country / generation. And this applied to Heskey as well, whilst we're at it.

You can apply this to the static 1vs1, the Penalty, which sees a conversion of roughly 76%ish. Over dozens, truly Long term, Top takers get that up to ~85%ish (CR7 in over 100 83%, Messi 78%). So a 1 in 4 Chance or 1 in 3 wouldn't suddenly become a significantly better Chance just because of the Player who has it.  However, and this is were the PPMs such as "rounds keeper" may be undercooked, there may be "specialists" as to certain type of chances.  Origi's great touch in the 5th Minute put it past the keeper already, which also a saw a huge bump in the Rating of a typically one on one. No langer was it in the typically 0.25-0.5 (avg: 0.3 xG range, but with the Goal for once being open, "better than a Penalty" range. It may or may not be somewhat relevant here as to FM that the pass that allowed him such was played from out wide, at an angle into his running path, rather than from a centralish through ball over the top though a la much of FM20. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Svenc

[Glen_Runciter]

11 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

 

I hope in the next  patch  in March they will fix  the long balls over the top

How is this normal for us now? Being resigned that every year we can hope that the final update, months later, won't have a glaring issue with some major aspect of gameplay?

[SeaCarrot]

Did you guys do something to the framerate? I now sit at 10fps in the general home/inbox wherever screens. Which makes my Gsync monitor flicker like mad. Didn't do this prepatch. :/ Had this issue last year too.

 

Its like its power saving, as my FPS goes back up to like 150 when i hit continue, then drops to 10 again when static. Its screwing my display. Annoying. Can I make it run 100% all the time?

Edited December 5, 2019 by SeaCarrot

[GunmaN1905]

20 minutes ago, robinthebest said:

What other game developers will release a good version that fixed the issues that had been found since beta? Who fix that ?

The thing is that this isn't a brand new game and that people are frustrated at recurring issues.

1v1 situations have been terrible for years. Final thrid situations should be the top priority because that's what football is all about.

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

Liverpool had two that were basically 1v1s and scored both.

You practice selective viewing I see, Mane had 2 more 1v1s he missed. 

[Svenc]

Not sure those were one on ones, @Rashidi. Which naturally Highlights another issue: the subjectivity. It's clear that some chances see the forward actually clearly engaged in a duel with the keeper, some significantly less so. For what's its worth, Mane's chances seem rated About  ~0.5 xG (80th Minute), ~0.10 xG and ~0.05xG for instance respectively. What he scored was the "1 in 10" one, the one from the Edge of the box.

1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

 

And why would the player to the left even run so close to him and be in offside?

 

In Terms of positioning I'm even more concerned that there's pockets full of space behind the entire Team, and generally all Players seem to rush headfirst towards the Opposition box, leaving poodles of space behind the rest of the Team and the CBs, whilst killing all central Depth. Unless this was an FM ME triggered counter attack, Maybe. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Svenc

[Rashidi]

4 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Not sure those were one on ones, @Rashidi. Which naturally Highlights another issue: the subjectivity. It's clear that some chances see the forward actually clearly engaged in a duel with the keeper, some significantly less so. For what's its worth, Mane's chances seem rated About  ~0.5 xG (80th Minute), ~0.10 xG and ~0.05xG for instance respectively. What he scored was the "1 in 10" one, the one from the Edge of the box.

In Terms of positioning I'm even more concerned that there's pockets full of space behind the entire Team, and generally all Players seem to rush headfirst towards the Opposition box, leaving poodles of space behind the rest of the Team and the CBs, whilst killing all central Depth. Unless this was an FM ME triggered counter attack, Maybe. 

Thats definitely a counter. It could also be a high line.  Just look at the backline one can't tell which team is defending. If the defensive line and LOE were set up right, at least one defender would have been facing forward

[Etebaer]

My Manager Picture suddenly went dark, a Member of the Blue Man Group was at Trial at my Club, braindead Defenders meet impotent Strikers who go on fruitless 1 on 1 Situation with erratic Keepers and Long Balls are not King, are not Kaiser, they are God!

The Gameplay went from somtimes upsetting mixed with beautyfull happenings to simply ordinary boredom and Long Balls are King, Kaiser and God at once!

I still win my games bcs i have multitude times the chances my opponents have and sometimes i lose one bcs the impotence of my Strikers decides it so...

 

And VFB Stuttgart this Weekend scored 3 Goals that would not count?

I can do better!

 

PS: Still not the Socks that belong to the Kit...

[SeaCarrot]

If you have the in game editor Etebaer you can fix the socks.

[Etebaer]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SeaCarrot:

If you have the in game editor Etebaer you can fix the socks.

It will not apply them...and for my serious Season i have it disabled anyway...but thx for the hint

[Etebaer]

Regarding 3d match Long Balls - it seems the game mostly sees them as "Through Balls" which is now the totally superior overwhelmingly way to create chances...

[Razor940]

12 ccc in a game, only 1 was scored, and it was not one of mines. Are mods saying that it's normal to fail 6 completely isolated cccs and only score with a screamer? This is borderline frustrating.

Cardiff - West Brom.pkm

[Saperlipopette]

Ok, I think I'm done with Football Manager 2020. Definitly. Unplayable, unenjoyable, unrealistic, unfair.

 

You can't win the league, because your opponents can't loose a game, and score plenty of goals, while you're struggling to make on of your 29 1v1, despite having a 19 rated finishing striker. Defenders are useless, higher or lower on the pitch. The best way to defend this season is... not to defend, honestly. Put your defensives line the highest as possible, and let the opponents miss the 19 1v1 they're botta get.

There is just one only single way to play this year : direct football, and crosses. Allardyce would be the GOAT in Football Manager 2020. You can't play short passes, because... it simply doesn't work, players are dumb, and unable to make right passes. There is not reason, it just doesn't work.

Also, it's the must UNFAIR FM I've ever played. Dominating is useless, creating chances is useless, it depends on luck. You can only score on : 

- goalkeepers/defenders mistakes

- random crosses

 

You can't ask your midfielders to hold the ball, because they will lose it.
You can't ask your wing-backs to play high, because they will run forward, then shoot for no reason.
You can't ask your wingers anything, because they will also run forward and shoot from impossible angles.
You can't play with BPD, because they consistantly lose the ball.
You can't play low tempo and short passes, because you don't create any chance, since only kick'n rush works this year.

Please do something, this is the worst FM ever. You can't release unfinished game every year, this is so disrespectful for the community.

[Svenc]

Aside of checking for "realistic" Long-term conversion ratios of all chances, I think it's About time to put the CCCs to rest. Let it die already. And then it replace it with something  more nuanced. A CCC could be anything from a tap-in into an open net to a 1 in 5 to 1 in 6 Chance average, after all. Then again, every time there were a couple genuine chances in there that wouldn't be scored (and vice versa), it must be a bug. There's not a single Team Sports in the world as crazy as Football, which is bad for a Manager (go ask them), but is the reason why the world's actually watching even the biggest mismatches. Over individual Matches, literally anything goes, and as a reliable contest of which is definitely the better Team of the two, Football Matches are the least reliable. This goes for FM as well as Football, any Kind of data would be more telling in the longer term.

In soccer, the rate at which shots are scored is massively variable. A club might win 1-0 on a perfect long-distance strike one week and then lose 2-1 the next while firing a dozen shots from good positions right into the keeper's chest. One of the counterintuitive lessons of statistical analysis in soccer is that the latter team, the one that lost 2-1, generally has better odds to win future matches.

 https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/name/67/post/2271195/headline

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Svenc

[jc577]

8 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Fingers crossed for that outcome tonight! 

Wasn’t far off 😂

[Sanel]

3 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

Yeah this is awful SI. Balanced mentality, much lower defensive line. It's against Brighton, do I really have to go defensive mentality against teams like Brighton just to prevent long balls over my defence?

 

These are world class defenders that just don't seem to react.

 

 
Yeah really awful SI. Go watch both clips again and notice how wide your defensive line is. 

[kiwityke1983]

14 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Actually the patch was meant to increase 1vs1 scoring, so yeah, get the FIFA, this game just isn't for you.

My experience is completely different to yours.

How about no, I've played every single version of this game since its release in1992. 

The patch was meant to increase 1 on 1 finishing in my experience it's massively increased the frequency of them occurring and totally nerfed the finishing. 

This is a feedback thread I'm giving my feedback. 

This ME is worse than the prior one which was quite enjoyable. 

And anyone saying you need to watch AI matches to see 1 on 1s can do one too, I want to see strikers in games I manage score them. Bớth for and against me. Its absolutely annoying as hell to see strikers miss 5 or 6, 1 on 1s per game with 10-12 half chances being fluffed too. 

 

[Sanel]

Second clip that he posted is just a joke, this not even bug related just clearly tactics related. There is something wrong with either centre back or defensive midfielder instructions. Easy fix would be playing more compact and using offside-trap. 

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Saperlipopette said:

The best way to defend this season is... not to defend, honestly. Put your defensives line the highest as possible, and let the opponents miss the 19 1v1 they're botta get

Nope you can do it on standard defensive line and even with a low line of engagement

 

1 hour ago, Saperlipopette said:

You can't play short passes, because... it simply doesn't work, players are dumb, and unable to make right passes. There is not reason, it just doesn't work.

Erm, you can even play short passing on very attacking mentality and still pass your way to goal. It does work, maybe you are doing something wrong.

I will just link a short video which is like 40 secs long that shows me playing 90 minutes on very attacking mentality, with a standard defensive line and my players are obeying my instructions.

 

[pats]

Regarding balls over the top- may be now you need to pay more attention to opposition strikers trying to run in behind?

- Try playing at least one of your DCs on cover duty if you are getting torn apart with balls in behind?

- Try putting more pressure on the ball carriers? Specially midfielders. Don't give them too much time on the ball.

- Don't go gung-ho attacking if you are getting torn apart at the back repeatedly.

- Try slightly deeper defensive line. This shouldn't hurt your ego. Even the top teams in real life have to do this from time to time.

- Try deeper LOE.

- Try man marking the players making the runs in behind.

- Drop the mentality one level. You can still go ultra attacking, don't worry.

- Try some defensive and tactical team training for few weeks.

All of the above is based on what works for me and logic. It may or may not work for you since there are several factors that affect a team's performance on football pitch in real life as well as in the game. Of course this issue could be linked to buggy defender reaction time. Only the developers will know but in the meantime I'm just trying to help make the game accessible to those who are not enjoying it at the moment.

Edited December 5, 2019 by pats

[srvngrc]

I think the main problem of ME is that there is not enough difference between good and decent players in some conditions. Long balls, 1v1s and 2v1s are the biggest examples for that.

In my opinion in ME we should see a clear difference in 1v1s between Harry Kane and other striker with 12 finishing 10 composure and 10 technique. Of course there is but not like real life. 

As i said before even decent or bad players send perfect long balls to 50-60m away.

I like the ME but it can be way too good.

[upthetoon]

1 minute ago, srvngrc said:

I think the main problem of ME is that there is not enough difference between good and decent players in some conditions. Long balls, 1v1s and 2v1s are the biggest examples for that.

In my opinion in ME we should see a clear difference in 1v1s between Harry Kane and other striker with 12 finishing 10 composure and 10 technique. Of course there is but not like real life. 

As i said before even decent or bad players send perfect long balls to 50-60m away.

I like the ME but it can be way too good.

I totally agree and this has been the case for a very long time. 

Its a great ME, but I don't see any difference between LLM play and high level elite play. If you have players in your team with much better stats than the opponent you have higher chances to win. 

But I just don't see any impact of having low stats on the pitch. They all seem to be doing the same thing. 

Players in LLM also ping balls across the pitch like Modric. Everything just plays out the same on the pitch. 

I don't see what actually player stats does in on the pitch anymore in this ME, aside from higher win probability. 

[Etebaer]

I really dont know how one can defend anything ME this patch.

The amount of stopping loose balls for making opostion Players gaining Possession totally uneccessary is completely over the top - not a single ME Version was ever that bad regarding that.

[dannyfc]

55 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Nope you can do it on standard defensive line and even with a low line of engagement

 

Erm, you can even play short passing on very attacking mentality and still pass your way to goal. It does work, maybe you are doing something wrong.

I will just link a short video which is like 40 secs long that shows me playing 90 minutes on very attacking mentality, with a standard defensive line and my players are obeying my instructions.

 

But if you have semi pro CBs that can ping perfect 50 yard defence splitting passes, why bother playing short? I have a chap with 7 for the passing and vision racking 3 or 4 key passes every game. 

Too many posters hear misinterpret complaints of the ME as a cry for tactical help. I'm winning games, my team are doing well, it just feels cheap and exploitive. 

[pats]

14 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

I really dont know how one can defend anything ME this patch.

The amount of stopping loose balls for making opostion Players gaining Possession totally uneccessary is completely over the top - not a single ME Version was ever that bad regarding that.

ME has problems no doubt but turning possession over is not one of them. It's your tactics and players. This part of ME is actually more realistic than previous versions. 

[FrazT]

Just finished my first session on the new update and after 5 games have logged 8 clear 1-1 chances for my team.  Scored 5, inlcuding 3 in the one game, so make what you can of that with all the comments earlier in the thread.

[craiigman]

1 hour ago, Etebaer said:

I really dont know how one can defend anything ME this patch.

The amount of stopping loose balls for making opostion Players gaining Possession totally uneccessary is completely over the top - not a single ME Version was ever that bad regarding that.

Do you mean players standing still when the ball is in play? Like no one is going for it? I noticed that in all the games I’ve played so far, it’s a bit like when playing Fifa and your player doesn’t lock onto the ball.

[Svenc]

48 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Just finished my first session on the new update and after 5 games have logged 8 clear 1-1 chances for my team.  Scored 5, inlcuding 3 in the one game, so make what you can of that with all the comments earlier in the thread.

Lucky dice. Sample size. 

 

Oh, and as of Harry Kane, he's clearly an above average finisher. Likewise, he didn't bang them in on like every other match because he put them all away. But because during his best he had 5 scoring attempts per match (the average EPL Forward 2). This season his number has regressed from ~5 attempts per match average to  2.6, which is barely half of that, and so he couldn't possibly score as much as during his best Seasons. As argued, finishing it all off itself is a skill, but if you're competing with Kane, you may be Pretty good at what you are doing even if you're playing for Villa. And the lower leagues you go, the worse Opposition to beat would become also (including defenders).

Massively SPoiler: Buying better Forwards with higher finishing stats as to FM likewise has never been a fix for consistently finishing issues. It's About the type of chances and increasing their numbers.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Svenc

[FrazT]

Maybe- only 1 scored out of the next 5 chances, so that is 6 out of 11 on the new ME- I am not drawing any conclusions at all based on 8 or 9 games but it does go against some of the comments earlier about a total inability to score on 1-1

[pats]

Watched first half of Liverpool vs Everton yesterday and it was like watching FM20's current ME. 

Liverpool's whole tactics was based around long balls over to top to the players running in behind, long accurate diagonals, in addition to their usual flooding the box via counter attacking with pace. I saw top defenders unable to deal with the long balls, static at times, making costly mistakes etc..

As for Tottenham vs Man United match, the difference in tactical cohesion was also clear to see. United were obviously motivated to prove Mourinho wrong and played well. Their passes were finding each other, They had defensive organisation and in short looked like they knew what they were doing. But they were also helped by Tottenham players' lack of understanding of each others' movement on the pitch defensively as well as in attack as per new tactics. It was very clear to see. I'm glad FM represents this well. i.e. If you change your tactics dramatically, your world beating team can also struggle sometimes.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by pats
grammar