Instant results

[kevhamster]

22 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

We can not be friends anymore

What's wrong with Def Leppard??  Bit of fun-time rock 'n' roll.  And who can fail to love a one-armed drummer??!

[XaW]

1 minute ago, kevhamster said:

What's wrong with Def Leppard??  Bit of fun-time rock 'n' roll.  And who can fail to love a one-armed drummer??!

I think he has a case of "hysteria"... 

[metallimuse]

5 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

What's wrong with Def Leppard??  Bit of fun-time rock 'n' roll.  And who can fail to love a one-armed drummer??!

 

[kevhamster]

5 minutes ago, XaW said:

I think he has a case of "hysteria"... 

And I approve! 

[bigmattb28]

5 hours ago, afizzyuk said:

i'm sorry @Neil Brock but i do find your reasons ridiculous and believe its lazy.

In real life, REAL MANAGERS DO have the option for their staff to take control over a match. so in fact, having such feature would make the game more realistic. you include this option for friendlies so why not for competitive matches?

some users, like me, love watching full games. but cup competitions, specially the smaller cups, i like to instant result as its time consuming and boring to watch your kids playing against teams 4 leagues below me. and like i said, REAL MANAGERS DO have the option for their staff to take control over matches. 

by your logic for not adding "instant result" then why are things like press conference easy for you to skip. skipping them or letting my assistant manager, by your logic, isn't being like a "real manager"

Gotta over rule you on this one. Let's take the Premier League in this argument. When, and I mean since it's inception in 1992 have you ever seen a first team manager, in fact lets use Sir Alex, when has he ever asked his assistant to take control of a match? When? Never that's when. Unless a manager has been banned from the touchline, ill or like Koeman at Southampton a few years ago was injured and physically couldn't get there, a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game, I fancy a day off! Don't include friendlies in your reply either, as it's often a first team manager will have assistants taking friendlies, not league or cup games.

Back on topic, the instant result thing falls into the each to their own column, there's skins out there that have it included and if you use it, great, if not so what? Play the game how you want to. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by bigmattb28

[metallimuse]

1 minute ago, bigmattb28 said:

Gotta over rule you on this one. Let's take the Premier League in this argument. When, and I mean since it's inception in 1992 have you ever seen a first team manager, in fact lets use Sir Alex, when has he ever asked his assistant to take control of a match? When, never that's when. Unless a manager has been banned from the touchline, ill or like Koeman at Southampton a few years ago was injured and physically couldn't get there, a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game, I fancy a day off! Don;t include friendlies in your reply either, as it's often a first team manager will have assistants taking friendlies, not league games.

Back on topic, the instant result thing falls into the each to their own column, there's skins out there that have it included and if you use it, great, if not so what? Play the game how you want to. 

Actually in Scottish football when Walter Smith was in his second stint he did let Ally McCoist pick the team, tactics and manage the game on the side for the League Cup, maybe Scottish Cup as well can't quite remember that detail.

 

But still, 'just say no' to instant results button.

[bigmattb28]

1 minute ago, metallimuse said:

Actually in Scottish football when Walter Smith was in his second stint he did let Ally McCoist pick the team, tactics and manage the game on the side for the League Cup, maybe Scottish Cup as well can't quite remember that detail.

 

But still, 'just say no' to instant results button.

Cup games, but I bet Walter Smith was still sat in the dug out or in the stand.

 

[forameuss]

2 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Actually in Scottish football when Walter Smith was in his second stint he did let Ally McCoist pick the team, tactics and manage the game on the side for the League Cup, maybe Scottish Cup as well can't quite remember that detail.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

In those cases though, wasn't he sitting upstairs, looming over things like a big, angry cloud in case anything went horribly wrong?  Not like he was off down the pub, even if he'd delegated some responsibility.  I'd say it's a step beyond letting your assistant pick the team in FM, but not as far as effectively not being present.

Edited November 5, 2019 by forameuss

[metallimuse]

Hey I'm not for an instant results but you said "a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game," and I feel like Walter did do that. 

Just playing devils advocate here.

[bigmattb28]

Just now, metallimuse said:

Hey I'm not for an instant results but you said "a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game," and I feel like Walter did do that. 

Just playing devils advocate here.

Okay, but instant result will literally give complete control over won't it, I'm sure Walter Smith was sat in the stands or dug out, he won't have handed absolute control to McCoist.

 

[metallimuse]

1 minute ago, bigmattb28 said:

Okay, but instant result will literally give complete control over won't it, I'm sure Walter Smith was sat in the stands or dug out, he won't have handed absolute control to McCoist.

 

I mean, we're splitting hairs here.

Walter was in attendance in the stands but it is widely known that Ally was left to control the team for the cup games. You can interpret that how you will. For me, I see that as Walter giving control to Ally as he was grooming him to be his successor and he did not manage the team for those games.

[Footix]

Money talks. If the feature is that important, simply don't buy the game. If sales go drastically down, SI will look into how they can increase sales.. maybe by adding a few highly requested features.

... or play FMT. "Arcadey", yeah right. Not in my book!

[kevhamster]

14 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Hey I'm not for an instant results but you said "a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game," and I feel like Walter did do that. 

Just playing devils advocate here.

And you can simulate that very scenario by holidaying the day of the game. 

[bassistuk]

Why would you play FM and not want to have the FULL experience? it's like buying a full drum kit and only playing on the snare. :s

[kevhamster]

2 minutes ago, bassistuk said:

Why would you play FM and not want to have the FULL experience? it's like buying a full drum kit and only playing on the snare. :s

But the Snare is the best of all the drums.

Toms suck!

Jokes of course.

[metallimuse]

3 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

And you can simulate that very scenario by holidaying the day of the game. 

I know I'm not for instant result I'm just pointing out what happened.

[Neil Brock]

2 hours ago, kevhamster said:

And you can simulate that very scenario by holidaying the day of the game. 

I'd keep that logic to yourself unless you want a reason for Miles to take the option out of the game to make it more of a simulation!  

[Guest]

Instant of "instant result" button, a way more welcome "button" will be to skip the days between matches. This will decrease some time into the game, since a player already lost a good time (play time) when the game stops just to receive an email from news or a journalist asks in November if X player will renew his contract. Yeah, I know, send assistant manager in press confe is an option.

[Lucas]

4 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

Instant of "instant result" button, a way more welcome "button" will be to skip the days between matches. This will decrease some time into the game, since a player already lost a good time (play time) when the game stops just to receive an email from news or a journalist asks in November if X player will renew his contract. Yeah, I know, send assistant manager in press confe is an option.

I usually use continue timeout for things like this. 

But unfortunately with the way FM currently works, having such a button would mean missing out on critical events such as an unhappiness, transfer bid or other. 

Don't think it is feasible currently but your point of view is understandable  

[gavinski33]

Be the same folk moaning about the match graphics not being Fifa-esque. Funny old game

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

I usually use continue timeout for things like this. 

But unfortunately with the way FM currently works, having such a button would mean missing out on critical events such as an unhappiness, transfer bid or other. 

Don't think it is feasible currently but your point of view is understandable  

Agree about transfer bid, but don't know if such a button will be helpful. The micro-managing things into the game (micro-managing spending time vs managing matches) has been increased drastically. I feel like spending more time to waiting next match (simulate days) rather than spending time to playing matches (which is the #1 reason for me buying the game); but you get my POV.

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

Agree about transfer bid, but don't know if such a button will be helpful. The micro-managing things into the game (micro-managing spending time vs managing matches) has been increased drastically. I feel like spending more time to waiting next match (simulate days) rather than spending time to playing matches (which is the #1 reason for me buying the game); but you get my POV.

Tbf, this is one of the reasons for FM Touch. Maybe you could try that and see if it's more to your liking.

[noikeee]

I'm gonna have to agree with the people that want the instant result button on the game.

I'm kinda weird as I've done everything from watching quite a few matches on "full match" (mostly to fine-tune tactics), done full careers on comprehensive highlights, skimmed through seasons and seasons of matches on key higlights, and did a few seasons on instant result too! I've even briefly converted to FMT last year, but don't think I'll stay there.

In my opinion there's a few use cases in which instant result is really useful:

1 - when you are dominant. In my MTK career (FM18 I think) I started dominating the Hungarian football league as soon as season 2, and from then onwards it became all about developing the team on the transfer market, on the training pitch, and on the youth side, skimming through the league matches and only proper playing the real competition - the European matches. You can't imagine how boring it becomes to play 30 Hungarian league matches per season when you're guaranteed to win 95% of them.

2 - when there's nothing else to play for anymore. Those boring seasons in which you're no longer in contention neither for promotion or relegation and things fizzle out, or the trophy has already been won, or there's already such a huge gap between 3rd and 4th, and 4th and 5th, that you're guaranteed to finish 4th already, etc.

3 - when you're doing a youth challenge. I'm not sure SI actually wants us to do this since it's so unrealistic (and it seems to be getting tighter/harder to do with club vision restrictions), but this is a very popular way of playing the game - a career where you don't hire 1 single player and rely on your youth setup exclusively, often with lower league clubs. This is an extremely long term project to aim for, often taking decades and several generations of players, so it makes more sense to skim through matches and focus on speeding up the game, so you get a better feel for how players are developing over the years.

4 - when you're doing a DoF roleplay career. I've never done this and it's a bit of a niche way of playing the game, but some people are not interested in the actual managing on the pitch, and more on the transfer market and squad management. This is essentially the exact opposite of a youth challenge, yet the button would be a essential tool for both ways of playing the game anyway.

5 - when you're not doing anything too niche in terms of gameplay, but are focusing on long term career building. Almost the same as #4 but not quite, this is something I identify a lot more with, I'm not huge into micromanagement and the thing I enjoy more about instead is the feeling of building a long career. Across various countries, leagues and many years, building a large trophy cabinet or trying to achieve lots of different achievements (not necessarily Steam achievements, more like the achievement of building up several clubs). This way of playing you're not exactly uninterested on what happens on the pitch and don't consider yourself a DoF, but with life getting in the way and limited time to play the game, this would be impossible without shortcuts like the IR button unless a day had 40 hours instead of 24.

Now, there's two arguments that people give as alternatives for those who want a IR button:

a) to holiday instead
b) to play FMT instead

But neither are satisfactory answers, neither are quite the same.

Holidaying, you're relinquishing a lot more control than IR'ing. You are not inputting your squad selection and are at the mercy of your assistant manager's starting 11 choices. You cannot tell him to go start that youth player that needs playing time; or rotate the entire 11 to rest for the midweek Champions League match that you want to take control of later. There's also a huge risk that through the holiday your assistant manager will respond to a key news article in a wrong way, or damage your squad in some other way. It also takes way more clicks to set up than just clicking "instant result", making it a chore.

FMT, I was briefly a convert of it last year, did a career, almost jumped 2 feet into it, but I think I'm going back to full fat FM this year. Several things are missing from full fat FM to feel satisfactory, since it's meant to process faster and SI had to cut corners to make it so (plus, that's kinda the whole point of FMT). It's nice not to have press conferences and team talks and the absurdly detailed training and all that ultra-micromanagement crap, but then you miss stuff like: full blown youth intakes; dynamic league reputation; extensive player stats (you can't even tell how many goals a player scored, that were from penalty kicks). Key features being locked out behind achievements - can't manage a national side until you win an achievement, really? That feels so cheap. It's just not the same. I think I prefer playing the full game, delegating all the micromanagement things to my staff, and having all the nice detail simmed when I want it. And if I had the option to delegate a competitive match to my staff whenever I want it, all the better.

Edited November 5, 2019 by noikeee

[Lucas]

10 minutes ago, noikeee said:

full blown youth intakes; dynamic league reputation; extensive player stats (you can't even tell how many goals a player scored, that were from penalty kicks).

Just want to clarify some of your points

• The "full blown youth intakes" generally speaking in full FM pads out the intake with many more lesser quality players. Think of it in FM Touch as only getting the best of the intake, instead. I think the argument is more that people want even more intake for FMT, so that's something for the feature requests. 
• Dynamic League Rep is very much in FM Touch. If you followed my Iceland save last year, I won the CL with KR.
• Extensive player stats should be available through custom views. It might not from memory as some of these were streamlined again for a few reasons.
• Can't manage a national side until you win an achievement, really? That feels so cheap - FMT coming from "classic" versions of the franchise, this was the norm at one point (CM2, admittedly). Still, its an easy achievement you can get within 30 minutes of gameplay.

[noikeee]

4 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Just want to clarify some of your points

• The "full blown youth intakes" generally speaking in full FM pads out the intake with many more lesser quality players. Think of it in FM Touch as only getting the best of the intake, instead. I think the argument is more that people want even more intake for FMT, so that's something for the feature requests. 
• Dynamic League Rep is very much in FM Touch. If you followed my Iceland save last year, I won the CL with KR.
• Extensive player stats should be available through custom views. It might not from memory as some of these were streamlined again for a few reasons.
• Can't manage a national side until you win an achievement, really? That feels so cheap - FMT coming from "classic" versions of the franchise, this was the norm at one point (CM2, admittedly). Still, its an easy achievement you can get within 30 minutes of gameplay.

Ok, thanks for the clarifications. I did know about the youth intakes but I think most people do want all those rubbish players.  The dynamic league rep I didn't know about, I couldn't find it in any screens, it's being calculated only under the hood, perhaps?

[Deisler26]

40 minutes ago, dREIS said:

The problem there old son is that in my 20+ years of playing MMO's, PC games and such. Those communities seem to have a group of "fans" trapped in a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality. Who all seem to be independent game designers with degrees in how they could do it better than the Dev team of that particular game. 

You’ve been on Reddit as well, eh?

[Lucas]

35 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Ok, thanks for the clarifications. I did know about the youth intakes but I think most people do want all those rubbish players.  The dynamic league rep I didn't know about, I couldn't find it in any screens, it's being calculated only under the hood, perhaps?

Its still very much part of FMT, it's more a case of certain UI screens have been removed in places. 

[RDF Tactics]

12 hours ago, bassistuk said:

Why would you play FM and not want to have the FULL experience? it's like buying a full drum kit and only playing on the snare. :s

As a musician, that’s a very poor comparison 

[RDF Tactics]

15 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Gotta over rule you on this one. Let's take the Premier League in this argument. When, and I mean since it's inception in 1992 have you ever seen a first team manager, in fact lets use Sir Alex, when has he ever asked his assistant to take control of a match? When? Never that's when. Unless a manager has been banned from the touchline, ill or like Koeman at Southampton a few years ago was injured and physically couldn't get there, a manager never has the option of saying to his assistant here pal you take today's game, I fancy a day off! Don't include friendlies in your reply either, as it's often a first team manager will have assistants taking friendlies, not league or cup games.

Back on topic, the instant result thing falls into the each to their own column, there's skins out there that have it included and if you use it, great, if not so what? Play the game how you want to. 

It does and has happened in football. Football is much bigger than the premier league. All over the world, I’m sure it does happen and like I said it’s happened before 

neither did I once say it happens regularly, I said it’s an option they have. Most managers choose take control over every match, but it’s an option they have. 
 

like I said I’m not demanding it. It’s a useful tools for many of their customers. It’s an option in real life (to let someone else take over the match). It’s a simulation that’s supposed to simulate real life.

They have so many other options in the game that most managers in real life do not use but it’s still an option in game because it’s an option in real life

 

i don’t feel that strongly about not having it, the reasons given are poor. Fact is, it’s an option available for “real managers” so it could be useful option in the game...people complaining, but what harm does it do to you If it’s added in the game. You don’t have to use it, doesn’t make the game any worse

[RDF Tactics]

I mean, you have the option to use fake names....that’s pretty realistic and “real managers” use that option don’t they? Lol

[jcp1417]

You want to know the real reason? MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!! They want you to play FMT which is freaking loaded with micro transactions. I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second that they have this golden principal of what it means to be a "football manager" in a video game. It's because they want to sell you micro transactions in FMT. There's nothing wrong with using the instant result button. 

[VP.]

43 minutes ago, jcp1417 said:

You want to know the real reason? MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!! They want you to play FMT which is freaking loaded with micro transactions. I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second that they have this golden principal of what it means to be a "football manager" in a video game. It's because they want to sell you micro transactions in FMT. There's nothing wrong with using the instant result button. 

I've often played fmt and never once even considered purchasing anything on there. It's hardly forced on the player to do so and you can certainly play without the need to spend any money so I genuinely fail to see any validity in your post?

Reading it again it's actually one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen on here!

Edited November 6, 2019 by SortitoutsiVP
Added final comment.

[jcp1417]

2 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

I've often played fmt and never once even considered purchasing anything on there. It's hardly forced on the player to do so and you can certainly play without the need to spend any money so I genuinely fail to see any validity in your post?

Reading it again it's actually one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen on here!

good for you 

[sporadicsmiles]

The skin I used last year had an instant result button in it. I had a fun Newcastle save at the end of FM19 where I just used this button and focused on rushing through seasons to see what happened. I encountered now problems doing this. So why does everyone get worked up. Use this skin with full fat FM. 

Otherwise I agree that SI do not need to introduce one themselves into the full game. 

[andyt365]

19 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We've chosen a creative direction that we want the game to move in, a decision from the very top and there are no plans to change this currently. The option is there for users that want to play that way in Football Manager Touch.

For those that use 'custom' skins there is the potential that using this option unofficially can cause problems with competitions within the game. 

From our perspective to be a 'football manager' you need to manage the team during matches, making the subs, potentially changing tactics and making the team talks too. 

Not everyone wants to play every match of every year. Its tedious. I like to see the club grow which takes years. I dont have time to play every game.

[FrazT]

59 minutes ago, andyt365 said:

Not everyone wants to play every match of every year. Its tedious. I like to see the club grow which takes years. I dont have time to play every game.

That is fine and I am sure that you know the alternatives that are available.

[dolph11]

33 minutes ago, FrazT said:

That is fine and I am sure that you know the alternatives that are available.

I'm sure he knows the alternatives but people are simply asking to be able to play the 'full-fat' version with the 'instant result' button. It's a reasonable request. By going to FMT they may lose some of the other things they enjoy about the game. As someone who becomes dominant in saves I like the 'instant result' button as watching league games can become monotonous. In addition, as someone who starts at the bottom and like to watch the club grow it takes time, this is where the button comes in handy. It's well and good saying to download a skin but I have done that for FM19 and found it interfered with my saves, not hugely but I would have preferred to have had the original skin. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by dolph11

[FrazT]

Of course it is a reasonable request, but SI have taken the time to respond to that request and give their reasons for its non inclusion in the game,  Their stance has to be respected and accepted, despite what some users may think.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

I'm sure he knows the alternatives but people are simply asking to be able to play the 'full-fat' version with the 'instant reply' button. It's a reasonable request. By going to FMT they may lose some of the other things they enjoy about the game. As someone who becomes dominant in saves I like the 'instant reply' button as watching league games can become monotonous. In addition, as someone who starts at the bottom and like to watch the club grow it takes time, this is where the button comes in handy. It's well and good saying to download a skin but I have done that for FM19 and found it interfered with my saves, not hugely but I would have preferred to have had the original skin. 

You can also go on holiday for the match you want to skip, as has been said.

[Icy]

Do we know what is the potential bad effect of using the skin?

[FrazT]

Using any third party skin means that there will be some risk- the fact that there are so many different skins available would suggest that the risk factor is very low, but of courses SI cannot provide support if these are installed.

[forameuss]

4 hours ago, Icy said:

Do we know what is the potential bad effect of using the skin?

No, and that's likely most of the problem. 

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Options are always good. An option to use the instant result button would be good.

I find it contradictory that there is no button in because you are the manager and it would be unrealistic, yet you can manage any club in the World.

Narrowing the game options leads to less people playing the game.

[Crispypaul]

5 hours ago, FrazT said:

Using any third party skin means that there will be some risk- the fact that there are so many different skins available would suggest that the risk factor is very low, but of courses SI cannot provide support if these are installed.

Risk to the stability of FM?  It's not really clear what this is supposed to be.

[Neil Brock]

36 minutes ago, Stephanie McMahon\'s Secre said:

Options are always good. An option to use the instant result button would be good.

I find it contradictory that there is no button in because you are the manager and it would be unrealistic, yet you can manage any club in the World.

Narrowing the game options leads to less people playing the game.

We haven't narrowed the options as it's never been an option for full FM. If anything we expanded the options for FMT to encourage more people who want to play like that to have the option. 

[RDF Tactics]

i just don't understand who it hurts by adding it into the game. you don't lose anything. its just an easy access button before you start a match. people keep saying "you can go on holiday", solution, why not make an easy accessible 'go on holiday' button/option, similar to instant result, before the match. you can have a feature where whilst you're on holiday, you can set out tactical orders for your staff to follow whilst your away ...

it's an option a high percentage of FM players use, it'll make a lot of players happy/satisfied. those who do not use won't moan or complain, simply because its not something they need to use.

[FrazT]

5 hours ago, Crispypaul said:

Risk to the stability of FM?  It's not really clear what this is supposed to be.

The risk is that the stability of the game when a skin is used that has not been tested with the game is unknown.  As I said above, though, skinning is regular so the risks involved would be very minimal.

[jcp1417]

mone

12 hours ago, afizzyuk said:

i just don't understand who it hurts by adding it into the game. you don't lose anything. its just an easy access button before you start a match. people keep saying "you can go on holiday", solution, why not make an easy accessible 'go on holiday' button/option, similar to instant result, before the match. you can have a feature where whilst you're on holiday, you can set out tactical orders for your staff to follow whilst your away ...

it's an option a high percentage of FM players use, it'll make a lot of players happy/satisfied. those who do not use won't moan or complain, simply because its not something they need to use.

they want that FMT money.

[RDF Tactics]

3 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

mone

they want that FMT money.

and that explanation is far more acceptable and understandable than the ones given so far. if thats the case, then why lie?! lool and if its money you want, then make it sellable. those who want to use must pay. its far more simple than they are making it

[Lenzar]

I use the Instant button sometimes. Either to replay a match after a crash, or near the end of the season for boring dead rubbers.

I don't feel this isn't me being a manager. It's a game, after all. We should be allowed to play it as we like.