Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

[Svenc]

As of the high amount of penalties, my inner Sherlock is getting increasingly triggered.

- It seems clear that this doesn't happen to everyone. 
- Even for those for which it happens, it doesn't appear to happen every match (or does it)
- Tactical combinations can naturally influence in those Matches (Player AND AI)
- However, the penalties are eventually awarded by someone, and that is a CALL to make
- Ref Research has been reportedly Ultra low priority for quite some time
- Despite their Attributes on Prior releasese scaling unrealistically with their Attributes before (a ref up until at least FM16/17 would either AVERAGE 5-7 bookings per match, or AVERAGE barely 1, all depending on a single number edited into their profile, which was the "discipline" Attribute)
- Which SI apparently weren't Aware of going by the reporting, but then see "Ultra low priority"

Has anybody taken a look at the corresponding ref's Attributes to check whether there is  a common Ground? Hopefully their attributes won't be all Set to "0" -- which means they are randomized at the start of the save --and loads of them often are ("Ultra low priority" indeed).

Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Svenc said:

As of the high amount of penalties, my inner Sherlock is getting increasingly triggered.

- It seems clear that this doesn't happen to everyone. 
- Even for those for which it happens, it doesn't appear to happen every match (or does it)
- Tactical combinations can naturally influence in those Matches (Player AND AI)
- However, the penalties are eventually awarded by someone, and that is a CALL to make
- Ref Research has been reportedly Ultra low priority for quite some time
- Despite their Attributes on Prior releasese scaling unrealistically with their Attributes before (a ref up until at least FM16/17 would either AVERAGE 5-7 bookings per match, or AVERAGE barely 1, all depending on a single number edited into their profile, which was the "discipline" Attribute)
- Which SI apparently weren't Aware of going by the reporting, but then see "Ultra low priority"

Has anybody taken a look at the corresponding ref's Attributes to check whether there is  a common Ground? Hopefully their attributes won't be all Set to "0" -- which means they are randomized at the start of the save --and loads of them often are ("Ultra low priority" indeed).

I get it in Scottish football, 4 in my last 3 games. 3 different refs.

[pats]

Is there something I can do in editor to influence penalty awarded decisions? (Of course I don't want to influence any other ref decisions. Just the unrealistically high amount of penalties.)

[Svenc]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I get it in Scottish football, 4 in my last 3 games. 3 different refs.

Well, I had a save in Austrial FM15/16ish, barely any bookings, different refs (all of which with low discipline Ratings except for one or two ). (yes, the RNG or Research had me awarded those). I think even my Ultimate Dream Team back from FM2012 wouldn't have to worry on that one.
 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc

[themadsheep2001]

36 minutes ago, s1111 said:

After nearly a full season on comprehensive highlights I can say that this latest version is a vastly better ME than FM19. It fixes 3 of the biggest issues from FM19;

• Realistic number of crosses per game (down from around 100 in FM19)
• AI on defensive mentalities can't just keep possession forever anymore
• The best teams are actually dominant and present a real challenge (Man City and Liverpool are both heading for over 95 points)

The biggest gripes for me are the number of offsides and penalties and wingers shooting in the side netting or post from the byline. But these are minor things that can be fixed, the core of the game is much improved.

Playing on comprehensive, and there’s so many lovely little touches. AI is far more variable, and that along with the way the opposition scouting reports have been done makes the games, especially the tougher ones, much more interesting. I’d be relatively impressed if this was 20.3, so for this to be beta/release is impressive. And if can build on it in the next updates then the standards have been set for future iterations at this point. Offsides are a symptom seemingly of not enough player movement recycling, so definitely an area for improvement that would come with multiple benefits if they can nail it. 

[91836]

Played quite a few matches in the beta now and watched a lot more AI ones. Not sure I can remember a single goal where the build up didn't happen out wide that wasn't a set piece or a long shot

Edited November 17, 2019 by 91836

[craigcwwe]

50 minutes ago, pats said:

Is there something I can do in editor to influence penalty awarded decisions? (Of course I don't want to influence any other ref decisions. Just the unrealistically high amount of penalties.)

Editor isn't out til full release.

[bigmattb28]

52 minutes ago, pats said:

Is there something I can do in editor to influence penalty awarded decisions? (Of course I don't want to influence any other ref decisions. Just the unrealistically high amount of penalties.)

Like what exactly? Edit every single ref in the game to be trigger happy with giving penalties away?

[divij13]

Have just started on FM20, the game does feel laggy on my early 2015 Macbook Pro, hope there is some optimization done for release.

Enjoying what I'm seeing so far with the latest ME but have only played about 5 games or so. Things do look very promising though, really liking the little interplay b/w players on the ball now. 

Been reading about no through balls and 1v1s on this forum. Admittedly I haven't played much but this was nice

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by divij13

[Johnny Ace]

I'm not getting these crazy amounts of penalties in my save, looking through the results I might see 2 given over an 8 game fixture list 

Are these from new saves or particular leagues?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

I'm not getting these crazy amounts of penalties in my save,

Me neither. I've also yet to see someone post a screenshot of their league's penalty stats. It could be tactical, it could be league based, it could be team based, it could bebugged. 

[Defensive]

vor einer Stunde schrieb 91836:

Played quite a few matches in the beta now and watched a lot more AI ones. Not sure I can remember a single goal where the build up didn't happen out wide that wasn't a set piece or a long shot

In this thread alone there are endless videos and screenshots from other goal types.

[TWG85]

Can't say I've had any issues with penalties/red cards, myself. Definitely think some of the issues are tactics related.

For instance, I expect a lot of the people (including myself) having issues with one-on-ones are playing with a lone, advanced forward.

No issues with through balls, either, with playing with a lower tempo &/or asking my centre midfielders to play more direct passes.

[rain94]

No crazy amounts of penalties in my save either. Three total (including AI's) in the last 6 games. I had issues with numerous yellow cards and red cards but that was with Getting Stuck in instruction for 90 minutes. I have since reduce it to stay on feet or neutral and my yellow cards (and for some reason the AI's) have been cut in half to an amount that seems more realistic. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by rain94

[TheVerySpecialOne]

Not sure why my board is so disappointed why my transfers. I spent my transfer budget, 1,5 M, on three young players which should become a vital part of my team in the future and eventually too good for my team and bring in money. Should I just blame it on board not valuing these players correctly since they are young and won't have such an impact right even but I spent my money on them without improving the first team so to say. Fans are on the other hand satisfied

[styluz05]

Anyone else getting a high amount of injuries? Currently have 6 out injured and when one comes back I get another one injured.

[hazzabish]

1 hour ago, Defensive said:

In this thread alone there are endless videos and screenshots from other goal types.

Nobody says they don't happen, but they don't happen enough.

[KUBI]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb styluz05:

Anyone else getting a high amount of injuries? Currently have 6 out injured and when one comes back I get another one injured.

Bad luck, there are more complains about not enough injuries in the game.

[styluz05]

Just now, KUBI said:

Bad luck, there are more complains about not enough injuries in the game.

Yeah its first time Ive had it 4th season in team just been decimated so I presumed as not experienced it before was just bad luck

[rain94]

18 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

Anyone else getting a high amount of injuries? Currently have 6 out injured and when one comes back I get another one injured.

Getting quite a number of 2-4 day injuries. Loving it!

[rain94]

Can anyone from SI answer if there are any negatives to having only 1 Data Analyst and 0 Chief Data Analyst? What does the CDA add? Any benefits to having more than 1 Data Analyst? And lastly, the Presenting Data attribute for staff, what does that affect? Thanks

[Release Day Blues]

Hello I have many greek players on Loan to UK for full season and when the brexit happens they all lost WP with no way to renew it, and I didn't even do cancellable loans?

Any ideas?

[Release Day Blues]

Every single press conference - He's like an army knife!

[martplfc1]

I had a ridiculous amount of pens preseason, nothing to do with tactics ffs  (or if it is it needs fixing) most of them looked like decent tackles on the match engine.

My first league game a number of similar tackles occurred with no pen being given. Obviously need a bigger sample size but it seems it could be something to do with the standard of refereeing.

[roykela]

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Me neither. I've also yet to see someone post a screenshot of their league's penalty stats. It could be tactical, it could be league based, it could be team based, it could bebugged. 

I posted some figures earlier. Not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but an indication.
In my own league everything seems spot on.
The rest, according to SvenC,  the amount of penalties are way too low. They are, however, not on full detail, apart from the Champions League latter stages.

 

[hazzabish]

I've had a lot of pens too, 6 in 10 games, 5 of which have been saved.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'm not getting these crazy amounts of penalties in my save, looking through the results I might see 2 given over an 8 game fixture list 

Are these from new saves or particular leagues?

 

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Me neither. I've also yet to see someone post a screenshot of their league's penalty stats. It could be tactical, it could be league based, it could be team based, it could bebugged. 

I'll post mines later. I can't remember how many games I've played in the league, think its 6, but I'm sure 5 sides were sitting at 3 penalties awarded.

Scottish league seems really and for it as theres a lot of people mentioning it.

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

I'll post mines later. I can't remember how many games I've played in the league, think its 6, but I'm sure 5 sides were sitting at 3 penalties awarded.

Scottish league seems really and for it as theres a lot of people mentioning it.

Yeah, it's deffo a thing I'm just wondering how, I'm still on my day one save so it might be new saves as I think Dave's on his first save too 

I'm seeing loads of fouls & cards, but in my afternoon playing stint yesterday it seemed to have calmed down

[roykela]

Had a look at my youngsters in my latest youth intake, with the Determination issue in mind.
Of 16 players there were 6 that had Determination below 10.
The other 10 had a Determination attribute from 10 to 18.
So this issue with youngsters having very low determination is an issue i don't see in my game.

My HOYD has a determination of 14 with Light-Hearted personality.
Youth Facilities: Adequate
Junior Coaching: Adequate
Youth Recruitment: Exceptional

Back to the penalties; i'm not seeing the issue with penalites at all.
In the Irish league i'm at they seem to be spot on. 44 penalties in 33 rounds. That's all teams counted.
In competitions that are not on full detail they seem to be extremely low.

During games i see a variety of plays that result in goals. Through-balls, 1v1 (converted and not), crosses, long shots, free-kicks, corner-kicks, tap-ins etc.

I have not started a new game after the latest update. Still on my first save.

Edited November 17, 2019 by roykela

[fm2020.smith]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Playing on comprehensive, and there’s so many lovely little touches. AI is far more variable, and that along with the way the opposition scouting reports have been done makes the games, especially the tougher ones, much more interesting. I’d be relatively impressed if this was 20.3, so for this to be beta/release is impressive. And if can build on it in the next updates then the standards have been set for future iterations at this point. Offsides are a symptom seemingly of not enough player movement recycling, so definitely an area for improvement that would come with multiple benefits if they can nail it. 

not sure i agree with you there. and this is only my opinion im not saying yours is wrong.

inside forwards do not work they miss all the time.

forwards hardly get a sniff in the game due to hardly any creative passing.

pressing is really bad. 1stly the pack hunting mentality is back. 2nd they hunt adn then do nothing they stand off and let players just go past resulting in shots. 

no skill or flair at all. get rid of the flair attribute as it does nothing there is no one beating 2 or 3 players and providing a crazy bit of skill

tring to get  a team to cross from deep is nearly impossible they all want to get to the byline and then shoot when they are actualy on the line ?? 

its a half decent base to build on at the moment, but for release it definatley needs to fix some of these flaws. 

this isnt about winning every game or scoring every chance. its just about seeing a more realistic game of football 

[Dagenham_Dave]

14 minutes ago, roykela said:

Had a look at my youngsters in my latest youth intake, with the Determination issue in mind.
Of 16 players there were 6 that had Determination below 10.
The other 10 had a Determination attribute from 10 to 18.
So this issue with youngsters having very low determination is an issue i don't see in my game.

 

It looks like it's only the base 'newgens' at the start of the game that are affected. Any new ones coming through after that should be fine. 

[roykela]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

It looks like it's only the base 'newgens' at the start of the game that are affected. Any new ones coming through after that should be fine. 

I see.
Not something i will have to worry about myself then.

[treble_yell_:-)]

I've played 7 games since the update. Playing in Scotland with Rangers and I have had 9 penalties in 7 games, scored 8. No penalties awarded against me.

 

Edit : Looking at the other games in the league since the update it appears penalties are fine, maybe even a little low averaging less than 1 per round of fixtures.

Edited November 17, 2019 by treble_yell_:-)

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, fm2020.smith said:

forwards hardly get a sniff in the game due to hardly any creative passing.

 

My forward has 27 goals in 40 games in the season I'm in. Many of which have came via through balls. I play with two wingers (who I sometimes change to IWs or IFs depending on the opposition), so the majority of assists being from crosses is something I would expect. 

 

[Sunstrikuuu]

3 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Me neither. I've also yet to see someone post a screenshot of their league's penalty stats. It could be tactical, it could be league based, it could be team based, it could bebugged. 

So far in the EPL, referees have awarded 50 penalties in 139 games.  That doesn't seem outrageous, I suppose.  Personally, though, I've been awarded penalties in six games in a row in all competitions, and multiple penalties in one or two of those games.  I'm playing 4-2-3-1 gegenpress with no deviations from the default except changing between inside forward and inverted winger roles depending on available personnel.  I wonder if I'm just getting more penalties because I have the ball around the opposition area so often. 

Other than the penalties and the continued shooting from tight angles, I'm very impressed with this version of the ME (though maybe it's a touch easy?).  I've been one of the more negative posters on the forum about previous versions going back to FM2014, so I don't impress easily. 

[hazzabish]

3 minutes ago, fm2020.smith said:

 

inside forwards do not work they miss all the time.

forwards hardly get a sniff in the game due to hardly any creative passing.

pressing is really bad. 1stly the pack hunting mentality is back. 2nd they hunt adn then do nothing they stand off and let players just go past resulting in shots. 

no skill or flair at all. get rid of the flair attribute as it does nothing there is no one beating 2 or 3 players and providing a crazy bit of skill

tring to get  a team to cross from deep is nearly impossible they all want to get to the byline and then shoot when they are actualy on the line ??

I agree with you about inside forwards/inside wingers. I can't get them to play above a 7 in a team (Arsenal) which has won 12 of 15.

I have had loads of bits of flair but they're invariably followed by a horrible miss. The amount of times I see 'that would have been a great goal' or something similar is doing my head in.

Agree too many braindead players who shoot from stupid angles when there's an easy cut-back.

[axehan1]

4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

My forward has 27 goals in 40 games in the season I'm in. Many of which have came via through balls. I play with two wingers (who I sometimes change to IWs or IFs depending on the opposition), so the majority of assists being from crosses is something I would expect. 

 

You have wingers that crossimpressive, so in your save they don't run to the byline and then stop dead and invariably either cut the ball back or(if they don't get robbed of the ball while standing still)play a square ball into the box.Let's have a few examples of your winger crossing the ball into the box.

Like I've said earlier absolutely immersed in this years game but work is most definitely needed on wing play.

[fm2020.smith]

i think it might be different for lower league players. i played a friendly during int break and played my kids and they actualy did as asked and crossed from deep and early kinda.  but get the first team out next game and back to same old rubbish 

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, axehan1 said:

so in your save they don't run to the byline and then stop dead and invariably either cut the ball back or(if they don't get robbed of the ball while standing still)play a square ball into the box.

Yes that happens sometimes, but I would expect that to happen on occasion, they aren't robots. I've seen that countless times in real life. 

Here's my last minute winner at home to league leaders York. Not going to lie, I went absolutely tonto when this went in 

 

 

[Release Day Blues]

I keep being told that "Club X Reserves" have made a bid for my players, for Britains clubs who don't have B teams.

Wrong.

[fm2020.smith]

re the bit about player creating chances. in 5 games the 3 midfielders who are all world class only contributed 5 key passes, these are the central mids and attack mids not wide players.

in the youth in 3 games 1 key pass 

under 23 in 5 games 3 key passes. 

i sit and watch as the players are in space and a creative player with vision of 17 plus and passing 17 plus can see the pass like ever. the striker may as well just have a seat during games as hes passed to so little.

[treble_yell_:-)]

Wing play is weird, I have Ryan Kent and Ojo at Rangers so bags of pace, the amount of times I have seen them get the ball on the edge of their own box, blitz the length of the pitch beating everyone and then shoot from the by-line rather than take advantage of the 3 on 1 advantage we have. 

I can't get central striker involved at all, looking at the heat maps for the last 7 games and the opposition box is colour free. Attacks inevitably result in the central pairing throwing it wide, and my winger (who seems to want to sit in the half space by default) will run into the box and either stop and play a pass out the box or shoot from a really acute angle. There is no square balls or crosses being put into the space between the D line and the goal. 

 

[RobertPage]

Two Liverpool players subbed on and subbed off a minute later

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 minutes ago, RobertPage said:

Two Liverpool players subbed on and subbed off a minute later

Post it in the bugs forum then. 

[RandomGuy.]

4 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Me neither. I've also yet to see someone post a screenshot of their league's penalty stats. It could be tactical, it could be league based, it could be team based, it could bebugged. 

 

20 penalties after 5 game weeks. Seems a spread across all referees too.

Edited November 17, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, hazzabish said:

- as ever, the ai team seem to need half or less good chances to score, no matter who they are. Player attributes seem irrelevant sometimes.

They may not be irrelevant, however the Chance/space matters more than the Player who has it. Plus, this isn't even true. Just Looking around there are already plenty Players who consistently outperform the AI in that regard, by a landslide. 

You see, the reason why the AI is the only Entity (in particular Long-term) ever scoring Goals from few/er attempts is because:

- The AI doesn't give a damn About any stat other than the Goals.
- The AI oft Plays defensive Football, which means conceding the "shot/Chance battle" by choice
- The AI manages Matches dynamically, rather than going "this is my super tacticz for this save", so may only start attacking late on, when it gauges it still has a Chance to salvage something. It may even make wholesale changes at HT when the result isn't going to plan etc. In other words, whilst it can't read a match a better Player is able to, it's still given simple means of "logically "reacting to the run of play

What Players of this have been doing is the following, usually. Off-topic, so big fat spoiler inside.

 

They think they're like the Pep Guardiola of this game due to their General success (which typically, they are not, as they don't even understand their opposition). So typically, also because of the AI, they face few shots all over the Season. As the AI is sometimes far too defensively, those shots oft only ever come About by flukes, set pieces, Errors. The AI in particular on older Releases just would not push up enough numbers to work decent moves (likely reworked some for FM 20). 

In other words, they concede shots over the Season. Just as Guardiola. However few he does (5-6 average, typically.). Now he goes exclusively through all the Matches in which he conceded / dropped the Points. What is he gonna find, Sherlock? Honestly, go to Whoscored, and try it for all the recent three Seasons. For as Long as you don't concede shots over the Season, you will concede a Goal here or there. If you're one of the better Players, less so, if one of the average to worse, more so. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc

[Dagenham_Dave]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

20 penalties after 5 game weeks. Seems a spread across all referees too.

Referees not giving penalties against the Old Firm. And Willie Collum being his usual dickish self.  Loving the realism of FM this year.  

I have no idea whether 20 penalties in five game weeks is excessive or not (4 a week across 6 fixtures), but it's not the '10 penalties in one game' line others are using, that's for sure. 

[martplfc1]

Apparently 103 pens in the EPL last season.

If my maths is correct, that works out as 1 every 7.38 games. 81.55% conversion rate.

Edited November 17, 2019 by martplfc1

[Release Day Blues]

54 minutes ago, Release Day Blues said:

I keep being told that "Club X Reserves" have made a bid for my players, for Britains clubs who don't have B teams.

Wrong.

Snowy pitch is so terrible - looks like its cloudy sky. 

[pats]

12 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Referees not giving penalties against the Old Firm. And Willie Collum being his usual dickish self.  Loving the realism of FM this year.  

I have no idea whether 20 penalties in five game weeks is excessive or not (4 a week across 6 fixtures), but it's not the '10 penalties in one game' line others are using, that's for sure. 

There may not be 10 penalties in a game but there have been 6-8 penalties in a game. Multiple PKMs are attached in the bug forum proving this.