Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

[rdbayly]

9 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Totally agree! A large parentage of goals are scored from wide areas I get that but, the complete lack of central play for 2 years running isn't acceptable from my point of view. 

Yep - and ironically, the term 'fluid counter attack' was introduced in FM19; however, since its introduction as a tactical system, the game hasn't been able to show it to us anywhere near what a fluid counter was capable of in FM17.

In 20 years of playing CM / FM; this goal had it all:

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by rdbayly

[Armistice]

6 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'll just drop this here

*awaits slew of criticism about the build up, etc, etc 

 

Cool, you scored on the counter. You were lucky you didn’t have a fullback in an advanced position or he would have been the target of that final ball xD

Look, I didn’t mean to offend anyone with that post, I think FM20 has potential and we, the players, can help with suggestions of what we think the game needs a bit more work. That’s not a bad idea though, is it? If you’re satisfied with FM, that’s very good.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Armistice

[Dagenham_Dave]

I have a much better example in my Altrincham save, but it won't let me upload it to YouTube, grrr. 

[Armistice]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

I have a much better example in my Altrincham save, but it won't let me upload it to YouTube, grrr. 

Send video over PM and I’ll upload it for you if you want.

[Dagenham_Dave]

 

2 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Send video over PM and I’ll upload it for you if you want.

Na, it's fine, the filesize is too big to add to a post/PM. Never mind. Shame, one of the best team goals has scored this year. 

[rdbayly]

3 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I have a much better example in my Altrincham save, but it won't let me upload it to YouTube, grrr. 

The upload to YouTube feature of the game has been a broken for a few years now. I laughed out loud at this mess:

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by rdbayly

[kandersson]

19 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Seen comments about a lack of individual brilliance, how players never score from 1 on 1s etc.

What happens in my very first game after reading those comments, against this seasons bogey team?

 

The NFL style block on the defender made the goal 

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

Not being funny but he's literally just pegging it into acres of space.

Brilliance for me is playing a deft one touch pass. Or wriggling out of a tight space with tricky footwork while surrounded by defenders. Or a killer first touch. Or a well executed give or go. Or a targetman receiving the ball with his back to goal , then swiveling to shoot in one motion. Small decisive moments that catch the defence unawares. 

The video you posted is the type of goal you see at U'9 youth level when there's a kid faster/stronger than the rest. 

The goal was against me, therefore it was a moment of brilliance my team could do nothing about 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I'll just drop these here. 

 

 

That's why I love this version of FM, by far.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Managed it, I think 

 

 

[rdbayly]

6 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Managed it, I think 

 

 

There is hope David.

[styluz05]

My strikers rarely got to 15+ in FM19. With this ME my striker for Hacken in Sweden now has 16 goals in 15 apps. And scoring all sorts of goals. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

There is hope David.

Feels weird when people call me that. It's not my name.  The username is from a Morrissey song before he became a massive walloper. Actually, maybe it kinda suits me in that respect 

[rdbayly]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

walloper

[ajsr1982]

Can anyone tell me if partnership familiarity - the orange/yellow/green lines between players on the tactics screen - has just been introduced in this patch? 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, styluz05 said:

My strikers rarely got to 15+ in FM19. With this ME my striker for Hacken in Sweden now has 16 goals in 15 apps. And scoring all sorts of goals. 

Yeah, one of the best things compared to last year's game is that strikers know where the net is again. Mine is top scorer in the league. 

Ah now, Hacken, what a fantastic save I had with them in FM16. Is Adam Andersson still there? Legend for me in that game. 

[rdbayly]

I've trawled through all my YouTube uploads now; this is the last one - Another FM17 fluid counter-attack goal that takes a big steaming dump on what we have to argue about on the Internet with strangers now.

The tactic was a flat 4-1-4-1 low block, with loads of attack duties in midfield, a defensive forward on support (watch his movement and hold up play) and a high tempo. If someone would like to show me something that resembles this in FM20, please share with the community:

I worship at the altar of central play, all other deities are wide of the mark. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by rdbayly

[styluz05]

13 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Yeah, one of the best things compared to last year's game is that strikers know where the net is again. Mine is top scorer in the league. 

Ah now, Hacken, what a fantastic save I had with them in FM16. Is Adam Andersson still there? Legend for me in that game. 

I can't find a Anderson must have moved on. I'm enjoying this save. I like managing in "minor" leagues. 

Found and brought this striker for £975k as a 17yr old. Has been a beast this season 

[Feriboy2]

14 minutes ago, ajsr1982 said:

Can anyone tell me if partnership familiarity - the orange/yellow/green lines between players on the tactics screen - has just been introduced in this patch? 

yes, it is working now.

[rdbayly]

14 minutes ago, ajsr1982 said:

Can anyone tell me if partnership familiarity - the orange/yellow/green lines between players on the tactics screen - has just been introduced in this patch? 

[themadsheep2001]

40 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Cool, you scored on the counter. You were lucky you didn’t have a fullback in an advanced position or he would have been the target of that final ball xD

Look, I didn’t mean to offend anyone with that post, I think FM20 has potential and we, the players, can help with suggestions of what we think the game needs a bit more work. That’s not a bad idea though, is it? If you’re satisfied with FM, that’s very good.

But you're not actually helping? You;re not playing FM20 at the minute, which is absolutely fine, but the point of this thread is feedback from the FM20 pre beta, if you're not playing that, makes it hard to leave any useful feedback from it. None of the last page will have been of any use to SI, with the exception of Weller's post ( @Weller1980 please copy and paste that into a new bugs thread)

Secondly SI already know what they are looking for, what they are working on is how to achieve it. If people really are genuinely interested, then really they should be copying @Johnny Ace and @Weller1980 as the more examples with differing playing styles the better, because right now the whole last page feels like point scoring between those who like it and those who don't and videos of FM17 are just not relevant

[ajsr1982]

1 minute ago, Feriboy2 said:

yes, it is working now.

Thanks. By extension, does that mean I started from a zero base when the new patch came in? My season has been completely derailed since the update!

[zachalxnder]

16 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Awesome, was wondering this too - how long did it take for these to develop after the patch?

[zachalxnder]

Also, will there be a list of database base changes come the full release, official or otherwise?

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, zachalxnder said:

Also, will there be a list of database base changes come the full release, official or otherwise?

In terms of attributes and player moves? No, due to the sheer number of them, its not feasible

[zachalxnder]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In terms of attributes and player moves? No, due to the sheer number of them, its not feasible

That’s what I figured. I’m not too concerned, but I am curious to see if Gabriel Martinelli gets any upgrades. In terms of competition rule changes and other related fixes, I assume that’ll be a bit easier to find listed somewhere. 

[rdbayly]

11 minutes ago, zachalxnder said:

Awesome, was wondering this too - how long did it take for these to develop after the patch?

I'd say about 3 weeks 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I've had a few more matches now where I've suffered from the poor conversion of one on ones.

I had two in one match, plus one for the opposition. The opposition scored theirs but mine were real hair tearing misses. Or good saves, whatever.

I should have edited the first one but it's only 17 seconds: So, this is the bad backpass, and my striker gets denied.

 

Later on, we see a great pass down the middle, another denial.

 

I did end up equalising via a penalty, mind you. I could present some more examples if I go trawling through my recent matches, however, I wanted to take the time to highlight this absolutely disgusting pass that I mentioned earlier in this thread;

 

The beauty is, he scores it so... :P

[zachalxnder]

1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

I'd say about 3 weeks 

Nice! Thanks

[rdbayly]

1 minute ago, zachalxnder said:

Nice! Thanks

They appeared out of nowhere and I jumped out of my seat!

It's just a pity that the same doesn't happen as a result of attacking patterns in the ME* 

 

 

 

* Still enjoying it though 

[zachalxnder]

1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

They appeared out of nowhere and I jumped out of my seat!

It's just a pity that the same doesn't happen as a result of attacking patterns in the ME* 

 

 

 

* Still enjoying it though 

It was one of my main concerns. Now that it’s fix, I am really considering keeping my save, barring some massive data changes, come the full release. 

[Armistice]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

But you're not actually helping? You;re not playing FM20 at the minute, which is absolutely fine, but the point of this thread is feedback from the FM20 pre beta, if you're not playing that, makes it hard to leave any useful feedback from it. None of the last page will have been of any use to SI, with the exception of Weller's post ( @Weller1980 please copy and paste that into a new bugs thread)

Secondly SI already know what they are looking for, what they are working on is how to achieve it. If people really are genuinely interested, then really they should be copying @Johnny Ace and @Weller1980 as the more examples with differing playing styles the better, because right now the whole last page feels like point scoring between those who like it and those who don't and videos of FM17 are just not relevant

This might come across as a harsh post (at heart I don’t intend it to be) and you’ll probably delete it and ban me, nevertheless I hope you don’t and this will probably be my last post in this thread if it’s not informative.

Yes I’m not playing FM20, why would I? Last year in FM19 I’ve posted lots of PKMs and analysis of what was wrong with the central play (in my POV) and all I got was SI acknowledging my effort and to keep continuing to aid which I did and then in the next patch I saw the same problems. Then I heard that it’s difficult to balance things in a short span of time which I accepted to an extent and one year later I see the same problems still present.

So am I helping FM20 with anything? Other than pointing out the issues, unfortunately not, because I can’t. But at least I’m trying to bring more awareness upon these issues.

That’s it.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Armistice

[FrazT]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Feels weird when people call me that. It's not my name.  The username is from a Morrissey song before he became a massive walloper. Actually, maybe it kinda suits me in that respect 

You may well think that- the rest of the forum users couldn't possibly comment

[Defensive]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Dagenham_Dave:

Managed it, I think 

 

So there are trough balls ins FM 20.

 

[Purple Bane]

Are the club culture ideologies set by the board just completely random then? Started off with Play attacking football/entertaining football/high tempo football' and 'Develop young players' which seemed to make sense as a combo. Got 'Do not sign anyone over 30' start of next, odd but okay, alongside 'Make the most of set pieces'...after winning the title, scoring 111 goals...weird but alright i'll gnore that. Start of third season, 'Play defensive football' introduced alongside the others.

Feels like they are just adding them on each season with no real sense behind the decisions to remind me the features there.

[Johnny Ace]

I'm sending this in, I don't even have to say where James sent this ball

I do have a gem of a through ball to upload from him for the goal though 

 

[Teep]

I'd holiday it to end of season to see what happens when you fail either attacking or defensive, or if they even add more.

[treble_yell_:-)]

Played a few games  post update, wing play (and attacking play in general) is nice to watch but it doesn't seem kike a lot of tackles are being made (and those that are seem to be disproportionally high % of fouls) 

 

Also echoing a lot of chances going begging because the player coming in from the wing shoots from an impossible angle rather than passing the ball.

[Razor940]

I posted on the bugs forum but no one replied. Is there a way that when I go backwards from a player profile to the roster I can directly go up and down on the selected player with the keyboards with out having to click on someone?

[kroshot]

have the player match ratings been altered my players are hardly getting above a 6.7 are we are doing well

[treble_yell_:-)]

Also Brexit related issue :-

 

Playing in Scotland and the new rules state that upon appeal for a work permit, 3 appeal points will be awarded if the transfer fee is in the top 50% of transfers from the EPL in the last 2 years. Surely that should be the SPL otherwise how is that even fair.

[Johnny Ace]

 

 

[RJCPS]

So i have only played 3 games in the old save after the update without changing any tactis (only players as all of a sudden 5 of my starting 11 got injured) and what i saw was:

•  more long shots than before (still at least 1 of them going in per game, others hiting posts for rebound goals)
• the attacks seem indeed more fluid and varied
• no more tennis passes from sideline to sideline
• seeing a lot of center passing so no issues in that front as some reported
• GK are no longer making saves let alone the amazing looking saves they were making before
• might just be bad luck in these games but bar being hit by the strikers, the GK seemed mostly lost in the box
• free kicks and corners now scare the s*** out of me since GK/defenders seem rather sleepy in the box (to be fair this is probably on me as I have not adjusted anything in this regard in that test save)

Obviously very small sample size but at the least the GK behaviour changes saddened me a lot :/ hopefully just bias from the small sample size. But the aim of my post is to figure this last one out, anyone noticing those great saves as they were before? Or are they really tuned down to nothing after the update?

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

 

Also echoing a lot of chances going begging because the player coming in from the wing shoots from an impossible angle rather than passing the ball.

I used to see this all the time in the original beta, but I've never once seen it since the update. 

[warlock]

1 hour ago, RJCPS said:

anyone noticing those great saves as they were before?

Yes, plenty of top-class saves both by my 'keeper and the AI's.

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I used to see this all the time in the original beta, but I've never once seen it since the update. 

Still seeing it, although nowhere near as often as before. Mostly from WBs; in my most recent game I tried giving them the 'shoot less often' PI but it didn't make a difference. We'll see if it helps in the longer term.

I am seeing a remarkable number of penalties but, at least in part, that may be tactical. Playing as Man Utd with very fast, capable dribblers and with 'run at defence' selected so we're sowing the seeds of panic among defenders in the penalty area.

Overall, I'm still very, very happy with the ME in its current form. I'm seeing a good variety of goals, including central through-balls into the area for an on-rushing striker or wide player.

[steviemay17]

4 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Feels weird when people call me that. It's not my name.  The username is from a Morrissey song before he became a massive walloper. Actually, maybe it kinda suits me in that respect 

Can confirm that Dagenham Dave is a massive walloper IRL 

[Pattric_b]

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I used to see this all the time in the original beta, but I've never once seen it since the update. 

I actually came to the thread to see if anyone else was still seeing this. It's definitely still happening to me and it seems like it's actually happening more than it was. 

 

This is a good example of what happens the winger or fullback will do very well to dribble forward but when his best option is to either stop play or cross he will take the worst shot I've ever seen. The next frames include Hlozek shooting from that angle and basically hitting the "FM" on the ad board. This in isolation isn't really an issue for me but I am definitely seeing things of this nature happening a lot still. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Pattric_b

[Amarante]

I really am laughing my ass off at all those FM17 videos people posting the goals but yet they are ignoring the **** poor defending  that led to those goals. FM17 was unrealstic. I played a tactic that if i tried that now in 19/20 i would be roasted and yes i did try it and found out i was roasted. 17 had good attacking play because the defending was awful.  18 had a good balance between both, in 19 defending became a thing, like real proper defending not stone statues that don't do anything. 

In 20 i believe we're almost their super close to that point where defending is a thing and attacking is working right.

[Ras]

Enjoying the game, bit concerned about my strikers though, have some very good ones but almost always missing 1 on 1 chances.  I think the 1 on 1 issue has been mentioned quite a bit previously from what I've skimmed so if there's an issue there hopefully it's fixed for release, sometimes the attacking passing is also confusing, like you have good players doing very stupid things attacking wise, like not passing to a clear teamate.  I think somebody also mentioned the wing backs being more important/effective than the strikers at times which could be an issue.  Opposition seem to be scoring, whether it be long range or close shots but sometimes feels like I have to get so many more chances to score even though I have very good finishers. 

Another thing on the stats screen after the match that could probably be laid out better, want it to be easy to see tackles made/tackles won, and all the key stats, finding it difficult to find, when I go on defensive it's just showing the passing stats not the tacking stats, maybe that's a bug people are already aware of.

[akkm]

11 minutes ago, Amarante said:

I really am laughing my ass off at all those FM17 videos people posting the goals but yet they are ignoring the **** poor defending  that led to those goals. FM17 was unrealstic. I played a tactic that if i tried that now in 19/20 i would be roasted and yes i did try it and found out i was roasted. 17 had good attacking play because the defending was awful.  18 had a good balance between both, in 19 defending became a thing, like real proper defending not stone statues that don't do anything. 

In 20 i believe we're almost their super close to that point where defending is a thing and attacking is working right.

thats a fundamentally incorrect assumption on fm17...yeah defending was loose then and comparably to last two but what those videos on fm17 show is that that's how weak defending should be exposed and punished with quality movement and pass decision making which is how it should be. Last year this pass decision making was absent in the simulation and this year until me2016 it was also absent. Even in me2016 this year that quality pass decision making is still undersimulated quite a bit actually and too much value is placed on play out wide and passing towards the wings. SI are aware of this and are working to resolve it but people's frustrations are understandable given the level of feedback re this last year and the amount of pkms/threads provided last year. Those FM17 videos have absolute merit in highlighting what was severely absent last year and continues to to absent to a similar level as fm17 simulation wise. There are plenty of opportunities space and formation wise where teams can be opened up in Fm20 but the pass decision making is inadequately simulated to expose it

in fm19 defending became a thing and the attackers became your stone statues instead...so defending was better but the perception of it was it was better than it was because attacking play was severely undersimulated and patterns were very repetitive to create goals and openings. Overall last year attacking movement was poor but the primary driver of poor central play and through balls was then and continues to be inadequate simulation of proper pass decision making. Until this gets bumped those issues will remain. The good thing is we're getting closer but the not so good thing is until we're there we're not there.