Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

[upthetoon]

4 hours ago, rain94 said:

Perhaps players who are asked to press hard and play at a faster attacking tempo are not fatiguing enough? I could see FM players using Gegenpress a little more judiciously and with prudence if there was a larger drawback on stamina during the matches and after when it comes to recovery. At the moment, I agree with several posts above. It's just set it and forget it. I would personally love to see the effects of fatigue cranked up a notch.

you are absolutely right. currrently you can just create a gengenpress tactic with any team and be hugely successful. its too overpowered and there's very little recursion for playing gegenpress with teams who simply don't have the players required for this. if you play gegenpress with a very low tier club, there should be alot of mistakes by players. because that gegenpress tactics works with only very few teams in the world and even Klopp has a different kind of pressing strategy depending on his players available and opponent. 

i dont think the ME in it's current state can replicate all the drawbacks of extremely high pressing for unsuited team, but as you said, it should start atleast with huge penalty in fatigue for a start.

[Rehnzz]

4 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

you are absolutely right. currrently you can just create a gengenpress tactic with any team and be hugely successful. its too overpowered and there's very little recursion for playing gegenpress with teams who simply don't have the players required for this. if you play gegenpress with a very low tier club, there should be alot of mistakes by players. because that gegenpress tactics works with only very few teams in the world and even Klopp has a different kind of pressing strategy depending on his players available and opponent. 

i dont think the ME in it's current state can replicate all the drawbacks of extremely high pressing for unsuited team, but as you said, it should start atleast with huge penalty in fatigue for a start.

Fully agree. Should also result in more cards and errors by the offensive-minded players who don't have the stats for ball contention.

90 % of my cards are on my defensive players, even though they should technically be more clinical.

( Even though every player on the pitch presses equally hard to regain the ball )

Edited November 6, 2019 by Rehnzz

[jckl]

another thing, i have already one and half season behind me in fm 20 and havent received or seen red card.

 

[XaW]

20 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've noticed when strikers have an angle they score more than they miss. When it's straight down the middle it's more often than not saved. 

Could be, my tactic mostly sets the striker up in the channels, so I rarely get 1on1s straight through. I'll try to remember to look for it going forward.

However, this is simply an explanation to all those who don't see the need to upload pkms or report issues the way SI want. If I were to approve/disapprove based on my playing so far, I'd say excellent ME. Simply because the way I set up might mask issues others will notice. The only thing I think is slightly off is crosses from fullback to fullback, but I didn't really think over it before I saw it mentioned here. 

I'm actually seeing a lot of variation in goals, both scoring and conceding. Through balls, crosses, set pieces, square balls, you name it. I'm also seeing mostly sensible actions from the players, not that they don't make mistakes, they certainly do, but not to a point where I think it would be impossible or improbably to happen in real life. I mean, I often tear my hair out when looking at football in the Premier League and seeing some choices made there.

Though, don't get me wrong, I think there are tweaks and some animation issues and other small things that should be sorted out before the actual release, but for a beta version, this is pretty good.

And that was just ME. I really love almost every change in the game elsewhere. The contract screen is a bit off for me, but it could be something I just need to be more accustomed to.

[Rehnzz]

Just now, jckl said:

another thing, i have already one and half season behind me in fm 20 and havent received or seen red card.

 

Me neither, apart from that one game where i got 6 red cards. Proper Ajax game that was

[herne79]

29 minutes ago, DiStru_ said:

And yet year after year the most powerful tactics seem to use the most illogical and unrealistic combinations of instructions and roles, without any punishment.

Just watched an FM 20 streamer the other day. Napoli, 4-1-2-2-1 (4-1-4-1 DM), Attacking mentality, CF, 2x RMD, MEZ, 2x attacking WB. Including More Urgent Pressing and Counter-Press, of course. If you posted that tactic on here, you'd get told it's not defensively-sound enough, yet he finished 2nd in his first Serie A season (despite most goals scored and least conceded) and won it in the second. Because of how effective and easy to make work the high pressing is, he simply doesn't have to worry about the defence. 

Of course, Napoli is a good side as it is, so that doesn't prove much, but I really don't see how anyone can argue that pressing isn't too effective in FM. Fair enough, they added new defensive instructions last year, so some unbalance was to be expected, but I expected them to tweak it this year. I can't handle another year where Counter-Press, More Urgent Pressing and a High Defensive Line seem like a cheat.

That wasn't your point I responded to.  You said the AI isn't smart enough to counteract a heavy press, I then wondered how people get "FM'd" by the AI when using a heavy press.

I agree a heavy press can be powerful when implemented correctly but to say the AI can't do anything about it isn't completely accurate.

[duesouth]

46 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

Yes, I've had Danny Ings, Shane Long and Michael Obefami all convert 1v1's in the beta.

Has Obafemi's hamstring gone yet?!

[kiwityke1983]

9 minutes ago, XaW said:

Could be, my tactic mostly sets the striker up in the channels, so I rarely get 1on1s straight through. I'll try to remember to look for it going forward.

However, this is simply an explanation to all those who don't see the need to upload pkms or report issues the way SI want. If I were to approve/disapprove based on my playing so far, I'd say excellent ME. Simply because the way I set up might mask issues others will notice. The only thing I think is slightly off is crosses from fullback to fullback, but I didn't really think over it before I saw it mentioned here. 

I'm actually seeing a lot of variation in goals, both scoring and conceding. Through balls, crosses, set pieces, square balls, you name it. I'm also seeing mostly sensible actions from the players, not that they don't make mistakes, they certainly do, but not to a point where I think it would be impossible or improbably to happen in real life. I mean, I often tear my hair out when looking at football in the Premier League and seeing some choices made there.

Though, don't get me wrong, I think there are tweaks and some animation issues and other small things that should be sorted out before the actual release, but for a beta version, this is pretty good.

And that was just ME. I really love almost every change in the game elsewhere. The contract screen is a bit off for me, but it could be something I just need to be more accustomed to.

I'm actually seeing a large range of goals too. I also really enjoy the passing and movement/recycling of play in and around the box. And the way players lose the ball is in general far more realistic than last year. 

But I have seen loads of one on one's missed for both me and the AI. Last season Oli Watkins for Brentford missed 5 and Cauley Woodrow missed 3 in one game which I won 1-0 from a long range effort! 

The ME certainly hasn't had me pulling my hair out in  frustration as some past MEs have with just utter stupidity like players standing there and waiting to be tackled. At least now they are put under pressure via a bad but at least realistic pass. 

So far I'm loving the club vision. It's going to absolutely revolutionise long term saves for me. 

Being an FM Mourinho the development centre hasn't had as much effect on me, but I think in my first full save I'll be actually using it to develop my own players. 

[kiwityke1983]

26 minutes ago, Rehnzz said:

Me neither, apart from that one game where i got 6 red cards. Proper Ajax game that was

I've seen 4 or 5 reds in a season and a half. Mainly straight reds for horror tackles. I predominantly play possession football and I think some teams get a bit frustrated IE use get stuck in to try and get the ball. 

[Novem9]

One of case which need improves for a long time

[DiStru_]

40 minutes ago, herne79 said:

You said the AI isn't smart enough to counteract a heavy press, I then wondered how people get "FM'd" by the AI when using a heavy press.

People get "FM'd" all the time for various reasons, doesn't change the fact that a Counter-Press tactic will dramatically overperform regularly over the course of the whole season. AI isn't smart enough in general, at least not to the point where it could read your tactic or understand what's happening on the pitch and counteract that logically. The most it will do is change its approach based on the pre-match odds and the result it finds itself with, but it definitely doesn't know how to answer a high-press in the same manner a human would.

The thing is though that even minor tweaks to how regular high intensity play affects players' stamina and injuries could improve the current situation, I understand they can't dramatically improve the AI over night (although it would be nice to see more focus on that front and see FM heading in the direction of becoming a proper tactical simulator).

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, duesouth said:

Has Obafemi's hamstring gone yet?!

Haha, no but I'm only 4 games into the league season.  He's scored 3 goals though, so he's been pretty good.

But then, Shane Long also scored a hattrick in a 6-1 demolition of West Ham, so I'm not sure I'm buying the realism this time around! lol

[Adzke]

Is the option to decide whether to click or to hover over the player player profile preview disappeared? I can't find it anywhere, and it bothers me to no end.

[Bakiano]

Not beta related, but is it better to skip the briefings or just handle it to your AM?

[Sunstrikuuu]

5 hours ago, glosoli said:

I'm using two Mezzela and one DLP (D) in the middle of them. AMC feeds the wing backs and false 9 very well. Instructions: Tackle harder, mark tighter, shorter passing, shoot less often, move into channels, roam from position. Team: overlap both wings, work ball into box, focus play through the middle, fairly narrow attacking width, much higher defensive line, use offside trap, narrow defensive width.

Interesting, thank you.  I was using a diamond with a DLPd at the base, and two of BBM, M(s) or C(s) depending on which players were available.  I felt like the ball went from the DLPd out to the wings and mostly just bypassed the AMC.

[Sunstrikuuu]

6 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Ive used the same formation/tactic and almost the same side and I'm in February and the only relationships i have are the trio of Lacazette, Aubameyang and Ozil who were there from the start.

You should also have a relationship between Xhaka and Torreira.

 

5 hours ago, bobbyb12345 said:

Questions:

- Has the bug where 2 or 3 players end up within a few yards of each other while pressing been fixed? I'm surprised more wasn't made of this in 19, but pressing was very unrealistic, haven't heard anything about it in 20?

- Do defenders still stupidly head a ball straight towards an opposition player when not heading it would be a far better option?

No and yes, and I believe both have been reported in the bugs forum.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Sunstrikuuu

[duesouth]

26 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

Not beta related, but is it better to skip the briefings or just handle it to your AM?

I didn't enjoy them, so I delegated - if you enjoy them, keep going.  Not sure how much impact it has on the game, so I could be missing a trick!

[VP.]

14 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

You should also have a relationship between Xhaka and Torreira.

Xhaka doesn't play 

[craigcwwe]

30 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

Not beta related, but is it better to skip the briefings or just handle it to your AM?

I delegate them. 

[Bakiano]

10 minutes ago, duesouth said:

I didn't enjoy them, so I delegated - if you enjoy them, keep going.  Not sure how much impact it has on the game, so I could be missing a trick!

In fm19 I was always taking the briefing but later I just send the AM. Now in beta, I just skipp them.

 

8 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

I delegate them. 

And what do you usually choose to tell the players?

[Sunstrikuuu]

6 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Xhaka doesn't play 

He's a lot better in FM than in RL!

6 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Are they relationships that developed or were already hardcoded?

I had one relationship that never changed on my save that was hardcoded and zero that have developed with in the save. 

I opened a thread rẻ this in the bugs forum, it got no replies or anything. 

@Rashidi

The partnership between Baselli/Rincon/Meite exists on day 1 of a fresh save, so it's not one that developed over time.  Presumably it can fade away if that side of things is working properly, which it doesn't appear to be.

[Dovydas]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

Quite a lot of my goals are. Example:

 

Interesting. I get lots of chances like this (from the angle) and I honestly cannot remember scoring a goal, every single time goalkeeper make a save.

[Bakiano]

This match gave me nearly a heart attack. Ronaldo had 3 chances 1 on 1 with the GK and he didn't score. 

Then Lucas Leiva with a screamer in 90+4min for 1-1!! Luckily, one minute later penalty for me and I scored. 

[TioPatinhax]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me what is the prize money in the Europa Conference League?

[TioPatinhax]

7 minutos atrás, Dovydas disse:

Interesting. I get lots of chances like this (from the angle) and I honestly cannot remember scoring a goal, every single time goalkeeper make a save.

Are all the stadiums still the same as in FM19?

[Neil Brock]

We've just pushed a stability based update out for the Pre-Release Beta. More details including a changelist can be found here - https://community.sigames.com/topic/499265-football-manager-2020-pre-release-beta-hotfix-2003-out-now/

Thanks. 

[zachalxnder]

3 minutes ago, TioPatinhax said:

Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me what is the prize money in the Europa Conference League?

A goat and a cow

[XaW]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've noticed when strikers have an angle they score more than they miss. When it's straight down the middle it's more often than not saved. 

10 minutes ago, Dovydas said:

Interesting. I get lots of chances like this (from the angle) and I honestly cannot remember scoring a goal, every single time goalkeeper make a save.

Here is one straight down the middle.

 

[kiwityke1983]

Just now, XaW said:

Here is one straight down the middle.

 

I didn't say they don't happen. Just they seem to get missed more often than not down the middle. 

It seems to be very random. You can get some games where at least 8 one on one's are missed. Then another where all of them get taken. 

[craigcwwe]

Whilst there are no match engine changes at this stage, we hope to make improvements (including amongst other things, regarding one-on-ones) in time for the full release of the game. 

[seagull84]

has the pathing changed on Macs?

I was playing 20 minutes ago perfectly with all custom graphics etc... after new update my game can't find my save games and all graphics are gone.

The game won't recognise anything in my Mac downloads file (which is where I have always pointed FM to)

[MrPompey]

22 minutes ago, XaW said:

Here is one straight down the middle.

 

I note the linesman doesnt keep up with play

 

[theballstopshere]

3 hours ago, XaW said:

Quite a lot of my goals are. Example:

 

there were four defenders on one forward. in a proper game, the other centre defender would have popped over to provide cover for his defender, thus being able to block the shot or put a sliding tackle in. he was just running straight back towards his own goal, without a forward with him. This is not right. 

in fact, the more i look at it the more i see 'un-lifelike' things happening. first, the defender who was marking the forward was unrealistically slow to react to the high ball, and second, he did not even put a tackle in or at least try to hustle with the forward. 

would like to see if the same happens in the top tier leagues. 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by theballstopshere

[Sunstrikuuu]

5 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

there were four defenders on one forward. in a proper game, the other centre defender would have popped over to provide cover for his defender, thus being able to block the shot or put a sliding tackle in. he was just running straight back towards his own goal, without a forward with him. This is not right. 

would like to see if the same happens in the top tier leagues. 

i will give the beta a try. 

Looks pretty similar to what happens in my EPL and Europa League games.

[thejay]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb craigcwwe:

Whilst there are no match engine changes at this stage, we hope to make improvements (including amongst other things, regarding one-on-ones) in time for the full release of the game. 

this does not inspire confidence.

 

This means the beta match engine is the most current match engine and not like some users suggested an older version of the match engine.

 

Having so many blatant issues so close to release  in the most current version does not sound good at all

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, thejay said:

this does not inspire confidence.

 

This means the beta match engine is the most current match engine and not like some users suggested an older version of the match engine.

 

Having so many blatant issues so close to release  in the most current version does not sound good at all

There's just under 2 weeks to go for full release, I'm sure loads will get sorted before then  

[kertiek]

i didnt see this problem in a while

 

 

liverpool is a champion league semi final match, the others two for the premiers... such a nice schedule, totally fair playing 4 games in 8 days.

 

and even better, liverpool dosnt have that problem .. they dont have 3 games in the same week

Edited November 6, 2019 by kertiek

[theballstopshere]

1 minute ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Looks pretty similar to what happens in my EPL and Europa League games.

Gosh, even in EPL and Europa???

This is no good. In fact, the more I look at it, the more I see unreal stuff. First, the defender who was marking the forward was unrealistically slow to react to the high ball. Second, he did not even put a tackle in or hustle and push the forward to force him out wide. I am no professional player but I would have done that for sure. lol

I personally cannot play the game with such obvious flaws in the ME and players' AI. 

Hopefully things change much better real soon. 

[Carmi88]

I just want my players to score more than 1 in 50 of their chances when running through on goal

[herne79]

7 minutes ago, thejay said:

This means the beta match engine is the most current match engine

No, it doesn't .

[Novem9]

5 минут назад, thejay сказал:

this does not inspire confidence.

 

This means the beta match engine is the most current match engine and not like some users suggested an older version of the match engine.

 

Having so many blatant issues so close to release  in the most current version does not sound good at all

Because all aspects of ME closely related to each other even one little update could change everything in a field

[thejay]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb herne79:

No, it doesn't .

but the phrasing makes it seem like it is 

 

Zitat

we hope to make improvements (including amongst other things, regarding one-on-ones) in time for the full release of the game. 

 

Implies no improvements yet but hopefully in the future

[srvngrc]

Board cancel some transfers due to high fee. But that’s not working properly. I agreed € 5,1m (1,5m+3x1,2m yearly) for a player and board has been cancelled the transfer. The reason is the transfer can be done with about € 4,85m. 5,1m is actually about 4,85m

[Seb Wassell]

20 minutes ago, thejay said:

this does not inspire confidence.

This means the beta match engine is the most current match engine and not like some users suggested an older version of the match engine.

Having so many blatant issues so close to release  in the most current version does not sound good at all

It does not mean this.

It means that no match engine changes have been released in this hotfix.

[kandersson]

Where's the screenshots folder? Can't find it in Documents or anywhere else. Do I need to create that?

[VP.]

1 minute ago, kandersson said:

Where's the screenshots folder? Can't find it in Documents or anywhere else. Do I need to create that?

Take a screenshot 'Alt+S' in FM20 and it'll appear.

[TheGrahamF]

24 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

It does not mean this.

It means that no match engine changes have been released in this hotfix.

By any chance has the issue with lag an stuttering in the 3D view been addressed?Its been mentioned a few times in posts and comments.

Thanks.

[kosecki99]

hace 30 minutos, Seb Wassell dijo:

It does not mean this.

It means that no match engine changes have been released in this hotfix.

Well, I think you could take advantage of updating the ME with this hotfix, and have the latest version of the ME, because it needs some important tweaks.

[kandersson]

23 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Take a screenshot 'Alt+S' in FM20 and it'll appear.

Used to do Alt+F9? Thanks anyway.

[steviemay17]

You've got to laugh a little bit at some reactions here, I must admit I think the ME is poor to the point where it takes the enjoyment out of the game but we do need to give them some kind of chance to fix it for full release.

If they didn't mention it in those hot fix notes then everybody would be piping up that it's a disgrace and they aren't even looking at it.

now they do acknowledge it, it's now the case this is as good as it's going to get and people kicking off.

Let's see what it's like on full release...