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Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread


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7 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

Yep - I'm seeing a lot of that as well. It has been reported in the bugs forum, so hopefully it'll be sorted for release.

Have to say, this is just one of a quite a few issues I've noticed on the pitch. Initially I was impressed, however, after half a season of watching extended highlights, the following traits are very common.

  • Forwards hardly score in 1 v 1 situation
  • Amount of offside goals
  • Long ball over the top too effective - regardless of whether your defensive line is higher or lower
  • players randomly kicking the ball out
  • Players won't try a though ball. Sometimes they'll just stop and play it backwards or yer another long sideways pass.
  • Loads of penalty misses

I'm also finding regardless of how I set my team up to play, they'll continue to pump it long -giving me the feeling that I'm not really in control.

I'm think the ME is in pretty good shape this year, but there does seem to be something in the decision making that is causing it to choose the long option far too often, even with shorter passing selected. I suspect it's related to how it judges a player is under pressure from the opposition and not available for a pass. It's looking at your choice of 'short passing'; deciding no-one in range is able to receive the ball and so looks for an out ball.

Offsides continue to be a problem. Not sure why that might be.

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Something i would love implemented is some sort of indication in transfer bids for what kind of players the team i'm appraoching could think of trading. I've never really found any form of use of player swapping, but i would love it to be more fluent as a tool.

Maybe my player develops into a really good CM, whilst my intention was always to play him as a DM. Rather than have to sell him and see how much money i can scrape by for a trade, which might be too late by that point and so i end up with money and no player... 

Just some form of hint what kind of players the team would be interested in swapping would be amazing.

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25 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

 

  • players randomly kicking the ball out

I noticed this too, however 1 time was due to an injury, not sure if that was in 19 I never noticed if it was, but certainly a nice touch however as I say I've seen the ball be hoofed out for no reason

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16 minutes ago, Rehnzz said:

Something i would love implemented is some sort of indication in transfer bids for what kind of players the team i'm appraoching could think of trading. I've never really found any form of use of player swapping, but i would love it to be more fluent as a tool.

Maybe my player develops into a really good CM, whilst my intention was always to play him as a DM. Rather than have to sell him and see how much money i can scrape by for a trade, which might be too late by that point and so i end up with money and no player... 

Just some form of hint what kind of players the team would be interested in swapping would be amazing.

This would be good in the MLS, as there's a lot of trades go on in that league. But in general there's not many player for player transfers that happen

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1 minute ago, bigmattb28 said:

This would be good in the MLS, as there's a lot of trades go on in that league. But in general there's not many player for player transfers that happen

That's true, i know it's a fairly uncommon thing. But the option to contact another manager and ask if there's anyone on your team he's interested in swapping for exists in real life, up to the manager ( which is me ) wether i want to make player for player transfers to happen

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1 minute ago, Bradley21 said:

 

- Players dwell on the ball so goddamn long

 

 

 

And then they stumble over the ball and lose it to someone who makes a 5 second run towards them to press lmao

Edited by Rehnzz
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No matter what role you or tactics you choose for your defenders, they always seem to head the ball to the opponent palyers when they have the option to head it to ta team mate, let it go and leave it to the keeper or head it out for a throw, Anyone else experienced this? It feels like it happens in almost every game.

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4 minutes ago, Tryllefot said:

No matter what role you or tactics you choose for your defenders, they always seem to head the ball to the opponent palyers when they have the option to head it to ta team mate, let it go and leave it to the keeper or head it out for a throw, Anyone else experienced this? It feels like it happens in almost every game.

I think it was worse in FM19, so i think they've tried to fix it. It does still happen, but i think it's been improved since last year from what i've played thus far. To me, i think an issue is that players will be more inclined to head it under no pressure, rather than use their chest or take a step back to control it properly.

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5 minutes ago, Tryllefot said:

No matter what role you or tactics you choose for your defenders, they always seem to head the ball to the opponent palyers when they have the option to head it to ta team mate, let it go and leave it to the keeper or head it out for a throw, Anyone else experienced this? It feels like it happens in almost every game.

This is in FM19 too. Very annoying.

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Indeed cross-field balls are too frequent and too good. It's just unrealistic how easily my team can switch the flanks. It's something that rarely happens in real football, and when done is a great move. Teams like Bayern can do this frequently due to their insane passing qualities, but many others struggle. Also as other noted the game is very long shot-centered and most of what happens is to move the ball from the flank to the center. What is still not present and makes the qualitiy of the matches suffer in terms of attractiveness is combination play in the center and before or in the box. Aside from counter attacks, posession build up and long shots (thats something, of course), it very much feels like watching 2nd or 3rd league matches all the time, and sadly in the department where it is the most fun and fascinating to watch high quality plays.

 

ME is still of course unrivaled, but i'm really desiring to be able to play some beautiful combination-centered football again, and it seems that in the last few years, nothing really beats much more pragmatic football.

What i really enjoy though is the much greater shift in posession numbers. Quality on the ball is much more important now, and numbers like 65% posession even without playing pepball, are now, just as is the case in reality, much more frequent. Difference in technical and tactical skills are now much more tangible and i enjoy that a lot.

 

edit: oh, and also i appreciate the higher quality in headers. Again it favours a playstyle with two strikers, which seems for years now to be the easiest path to get wins, but nonetheless its a tangible increase in realism

Edited by Nikopol
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32 minutes ago, Bradley21 said:

- Ping pong cross-field balls are absurd

- Players refuse to cross

- 1v1's are pointless

- Long shots are taken too often and from stupid locations, as well as from absurd techniques like on the turn first time, weak foot first time....etc.

- Most goals are long shots

- The main way to score a 1v1 is to hit it long straight down the middle as the centerbacks always push up a few steps higher than the fullbacks, playing the striker onside. Even then, the striker routinely chooses to not advance into the box, and shoots from the edge or outside of the box. 

- Passing is very one-dimensional with it always going out to the winger who doesn't cross, and instead plays it to the edge of the area, it's then passed further along the edge and back and forward until a long shot is taken

- Players dwell on the ball so goddamn long

- Through balls into the box are under-tuned

- Fullbacks punt the ball up-field no matter what your passing style and tempo are

Sadly I agree with these points above. I have also posted about most of them in the ME forum along with examples & PKMs. I am really hoping & expecting to see it addressed by SI.

The only thing I would add to the pointers above is that players are not dribbling enough or taking other players on, especially those with the right attributes, traits & instructions to do so. I see hardly any players actually going on a run, they always elect to pass the ball. It's not that this is completely non-existent in the game, I have actually seen my LB (who has good dribbling and tries tricks) do a few cool take-ons, but the wingers and other players need to attempt it a lot more. 

I can imagine that it is very hard to get a match engine that accurately reflects the world of football, with probably a million calculations going on in the back-ground for each 90 min game being played out. But at the end of the day, this is the MOST important part of the game as well. 

The good news is that absolutely everything else about FM20 is super, and particularly loving the additions of Club Vision, Development Centre and Player Pathways etc. So really hoping that the ME is improved in time for the full release so that we can all enjoy dedicating a part of our lives over the next one year to this game :D

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1 hour ago, Bradley21 said:

Passing is very one-dimensional with it always going out to the winger who doesn't cross, and instead plays it to the edge of the area, it's then passed further along the edge and back and forward until a long shot is taken

I have seen this a lot! Thought it could be my tactics, and maybe still is... but nice to know I’m not the only one experiencing this. 

Playing a 343 and my most common end to a move is: WB + IW circulate the ball between them —> WB feeds the IW who has moved inside, who then plays the ball to the edge of the box for the ball-side CM to have a pop at goal. 

I do appreciate SI have tried to reduce the number of block crosses which were a pain last year, but I think the balance is slightly off. 

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1 minute ago, jc577 said:

I have seen this a lot! Thought it could be my tactics, and maybe still is... but nice to know I’m not the only one experiencing this. 

Playing a 343 and my most common end to a move is: WB + IW circulate the ball between them —> WB feeds the IW who has moved inside, who then plays the ball to the edge of the box for the ball-side CM to have a pop at goal. 

I do appreciate SI have tried to reduce the number of block crosses which were a pain last year, but I think the balance is slightly off. 

I've tried to play in opposite ways to see if it makes a difference, and it doesn't really, at least not to the degree that it should. I've played short and slow, short and fast, long and fast, on the counter, tiki-taka, gegenpress, 3/4/5 at the back formations, 1/2/3 strikers, lots of dribbling, no dribbling, passing into space.....the same pattern shows up time and time again. 

 

I don't think this is an issue of tactics. Yes tactics can make it happen more of less frequently, but the way the ME is designed forced this kind of play because play will inevitably get backed up on the wings when the wingers/fullbacks refuse to cross the ball, and end up cutting it back. Byt his point the defense are already back in position, so there's not a lot of options for much else. 

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I'm really not seeing a lack of crosses from WB's, I'd much rather take their behavior in this version that FM19 for sure, I like they play passes in field now rather then try & cross into a defender  

I'm half hour into a game here & both have crossed for assists 

Untitled.thumb.png.2875ab4b21c6ebeb299b44bcf1251b98.png

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16 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Would this be the same reason all the touchlines/boxes/centre circles turned blue for me in December/January before going back to white. 

Nothing else changed.

This will be because there was predicted snow in the weather forecast. This happens in real life too:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/blue-lines-emirates-stadium-pitch-12111204

We are making tweaks to how often it happens though

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4 hours ago, prot651 said:

You are not taking into consideration the Percentages of the goal keeper saving penalty kicks . Im sure there are good goalkeepers who have a good percentage of saves that would also have to be calculated in . 

Yeah, just talking longer term, which means things would even out. Evenso, the keeper too, may make a difference, but only by this much. Both keepers as well as takers on Ronaldo's Level typically belong to the top. If you're going to Play against Ronaldo, it means you are already very good at what you are doing. (Even though punditry and fans would constantly argue how Player x was rubbish, whilst y must be invincible). That's also why some speculated that if Cavani could score 35 Goals for PSG, then Neymar must destroy the league. :D But then Cavani apparently is also a Forward who "can'T finish" according to fans/pundits, which is quite odd given his records. :D 

Edited by Svenc
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Bradley21:

I'm really beginning to get tired of this ME now. There's just too many issues to make it anything other than frustrating, pretty appalling that they managed to put it out in this state two weeks from launch. The flaws are just so obvious, and so large. 

Especially when fm19 had related me issues 

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- Players refuse to cross

- 1v1's are pointless

These 2 for me are the two most annoying things.

 

I honestly don't think I have scored from a one on one chance so far, I am in January of the first season. I know as soon as my player gets 1v1 he is going to miss. It isn't just me however, I don't remember the AI scoring a 1v1 either. And bloody crosses, players just will not cross, they make some absurd decision to ping the ball back to a player that is near the half way line rather than cross.

 

Hopefully these two things do get fixed.

 

I asked before but didn't get a response, does anyone know where you can see where your goals are scored from? You used to be able to see this but I can't find it now.

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i get very annoyed by the fact that my center back always seems to head a long ball into a opposition players feet, in stead of controlling the ball or heading it to the GK / another player.

even when there is no pressing from the opposite side,

 

i dont need my centerback to launch the oppositions counter-attack because he heads it in the the strikers feet at the center-spot.

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Apart from what I consider to be some glaring issues with the ME which have already been well documented, I find myself again perplexed as to why the vast majority of midfielders have their ideal role as a playmaker of some  sort. This isn't the case in real life at all. There's a massive scarcity of simple 'central midfielders' or ball winning types in FM. This was also the case last year, and it sort of forces you to play 2 playmakers at times. Take my favourite team Arsenal - Torreira and Willock are both considered to have their ideal role as playmakers. This simply isn't true. Willock is a box to box midfielder in real life and Torreira is more of a ball winning midfielder or anchor man. I feel the scarcity of other roles makes formation choices very limited.

 

I also feel Mason Greenwood is severely overrated as compared to the more impressive (this year) Gabriel Martinelli, among many other data issues.

Edited by hazzabish
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35 minutes ago, sureup said:

When can we expect the next hotfix? I'm eagerly awaiting the fix for a game breaking rule bug for the norwegian league. I've had tons of fun and can't wait to play more! :)

I think something like that would be in the fixes for general release

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After starting a few games, I settled for trying my hand in the Swiss 2nd Division. Bringing Grashoppers back up to European Football, which makes for a pretty easy first season and since they have a pretty nice youth setup I can make use of the new Development screen. So far the Match Engine seems to be heading in the right direction. Gegenpress doesn't rule supreme over every other tactic anymore. Wing-Play, especially with overlapping wing backs seems to work much better (not necessarily scoring way more goals from these situation, but the players behave way more in accordance with the instructions and make sensible decisions over when to cross and when to wait for an overlapping full back) But I definitely have noticed some oddities.

I have scored 43 goals in 14 domestic games so far (yay) in Grashoppers save. That is a lot, but the squad is too good for the divison so it's not totally unexpected and I have not noticed a particularly high amount of goals in my other saves, but as many others have already stated. A lot of my goals have been scored by my two centre mids (8 and 3 respectively). And most of those goals have bee screamers from 20 yards or more. I have scored 14 goals from outside the box in 14 games. My two centre mids Randy Schneider and Oliver Buff both have a long shot attribute of 12 and no complimenting trait. I don't have any other particularly good long shot guy in the squad. In contrast, scoring headers from inside box seems to be insanely hard for Erik Botheim a Norwegian Tank I signed on loan. He has 13 finishing, 13 Heading, 14 Strength and 13 Jumping reach which is very good for the 2nd tier in Switzerland, our team is always dominating, he is getting chances and he is heading them everywhere, except inside the goal. Finishing on through balls seems to be very hard (again), especially when a team is through with more than one player the strikers stubbornly resist to pass to a way better positioned team-mate and try to finish from outrageous angles. This even happens with "Take Less Shots" activated and "Looking to Pass instead of Scoring" as a player trait.

https://imgur.com/a/vPts6Dx

This is pretty unrealistic and I think it's the biggest weakspot in terms of realism right now.

https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2013/11/13/5098186/shot-matrix-i-shot-location-and-expected-goals

Some other random notes:

- Games uses very much processing power and saving is taking longer than in fm19. Could do with some optimizing.

- Youth Development Center is very nice.

- I wish the whole Squad Dynamic thing had more of an impact and wasn't just a hurdle in the first few months and then something I never have to think about. Contrasting personalities and nationalities seem don't really seem to be a problem. Then again the "social" aspect of the game is kinda wonky to begin with and it would require players to act a bit more rationally.

- Training performances are more realistic than in fm19 where every team just performed wonderfully every week.

- The New Prefrences Menu seems like a downgrade unfortunately.

- Partnerships don't seem to form anymore (? maybe they just take waaaaaaaaay longer than in FM 19)

Edited by Robsontist
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12 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

I think something like that would be in the fixes for general release

Hope not. The fix is hopefully simple and the consequences of the bug are game-breaking. (15-16 yr olds can't play more than 3 matches in the Norwegian league)

I pray to the SI gods that the fix will be delivered swiftly :)

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5 minutes ago, sureup said:

Hope not. The fix is hopefully simple and the consequences of the bug are game-breaking. (15-16 yr olds can't play more than 3 matches in the Norwegian league)

I pray to the SI gods that the fix will be delivered swiftly :)

Hope I am wrong, but in my mind a league rule would probably be seen as something needed for the general release, not fixed in the beta. As I say, hope I'm wrong as I do like to have Norway loaded on my journeyman saves

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4 hours ago, Bradley21 said:

I, and many others, have already done this in this thread, in other threads, via PKM's, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Reddit....bloody everywhere because the issues are so blatant. 

 

- Ping pong cross-field balls are absurd

- Players refuse to cross

- 1v1's are pointless

- Long shots are taken too often and from stupid locations, as well as from absurd techniques like on the turn first time, weak foot first time....etc.

- Most goals are long shots

- The main way to score a 1v1 is to hit it long straight down the middle as the centerbacks always push up a few steps higher than the fullbacks, playing the striker onside. Even then, the striker routinely chooses to not advance into the box, and shoots from the edge or outside of the box. 

- Passing is very one-dimensional with it always going out to the winger who doesn't cross, and instead plays it to the edge of the area, it's then passed further along the edge and back and forward until a long shot is taken

- Players dwell on the ball so goddamn long

- Through balls into the box are under-tuned

- Fullbacks punt the ball up-field no matter what your passing style and tempo are

 

This had the potential to be a great ME if these issues are worked out, but i have no faith judging by how the demo has such awful flaws that are painfully obvious to see for anybody who has functioning eyes. To release it in this state so close to release is not a good sign that this will be fixed, at least not before the new year. It is a pathetic state, and SI should be embarrassed. It really is a shame because there's a lot of clear improvements from last year, but the things i listed above ruin all that in its current state. 

 

I doubt many here will remember, but when FML was a thing there was a period where long shots were as OP as they are in FM20 (probably more so in FML actually) and people played 460 and just smashed long shots in constantly. That's what this feels like, only we don't have the benefit of more regular updates like FML did, so the game may be stuck like this for some time. 

Gosh. You mean these issues are still in FM20??? Geez. I reckon the GKs still cannot save rebounded balls, or second shots and there are no one on ones?

That's it. I be giving this a miss. 

To me, the match engine is one of the most important aspects of the game, perhaps the most.

Sad, as I am looking forward to hearing good reviews. 

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15 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

Gosh. You mean these issues are still in FM20??? Geez. I reckon the GKs still cannot save rebounded balls, or second shots and there are no one on ones?

That's it. I be giving this a miss. 

To me, the match engine is one of the most important aspects of the game, perhaps the most.

Sad, as I am looking forward to hearing good reviews. 

It is really sad that the ME is so bad, especially considering this is easily the best FM yet in every other aspect. 

There are some issues with transfer values, board expectations or a little bit of a performance inconsistency. But by in large, this is a brilliant installment (ME aside) and once the small bugs in the general game are ironed out everything will be amazing. 

Hopefully the ME catches up. Would be a shame if not.

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15 minutes ago, kertiek said:

after brexit every player in my squad has the homegrown status, is this intended? .. i think it shouldnt

Depends if they are from the UK, or depending on what type of Brexit you got.

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6 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

Depends if they are from the UK, or depending on what type of Brexit you got.

am managing arsenal, for example ozil and leno got the homegrown status, every player did minus tierney, dont know why he didnt.

here are the rules:

image.thumb.png.b5ef60542630af1f64efd94746438290.png

Edited by kertiek
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8 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

The 2019 Beta ME vs the full release ME were night and day last year.

I suspect they are already working on a version of the Match Engine several iterations ahead of this one.

I think the 'BETA' element refers more to general playability and bug spotting in the game OUTSIDE of the Match Engine.

The idea that something as complex as the Match Engine can be rebuilt based on 2 weeks worth of feedback from users in a non-controlled environment is a fallacy.

I'm sure the Match Engine on full release will be much better balanced. 

 

Just worrying that the ME is in this state even after 11 months of development. I believe the full game will be different, but the question is why its so as it is now. 

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2 minutes ago, kertiek said:

am managing arsenal, for example ozil and leno got the homegrown status, every player did minus tierney, dont know why he didnt.

here are the rules:

image.thumb.png.b5ef60542630af1f64efd94746438290.png

So Ozil got home grown status? Definitely a bug, get that reported mate.

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49 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

That's it. I be giving this a miss.

Play the demo (when released) and then decide rather than basing a decision off comments concerning a Beta version?

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2 hours ago, hazzabish said:

Apart from what I consider to be some glaring issues with the ME which have already been well documented, I find myself again perplexed as to why the vast majority of midfielders have their ideal trole as a playmaker of some  sort. this isn't the case in real life at all. There's a massive scarcity of simple 'central midfielders' or ball winning types. This was also the case last year, and it sort of forces you to play 2 playmakers at at times. Take my favourite team Arsenal - Torreira and Willock are both considered to have their ideal role as playmakers. This simply isn't true. Willock is a box to box midfielder in real life and Torreira is more of a ball winning midfielder or anchor man. I feel the scarcity of other roles makes formation choices very limited.

This is simply an indication of which role their attributes are most suited for, you are free to play the player's how you wish. In fact, a balanced tactic is more likely to yield positive results than simply playing everyone in their "best" role.

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2 horas atrás, sureup disse:

Hope not. The fix is hopefully simple and the consequences of the bug are game-breaking. (15-16 yr olds can't play more than 3 matches in the Norwegian league)

I pray to the SI gods that the fix will be delivered swiftly :)

I'm also hoping for a fix with FC Porto in Portugal (main squad called up to play in u19 youth league) in Beta, but I do know it's more likely to be corrected only with the full release.

Maybe we get extra lucky hehe.

Edited by 99
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6 hours ago, Bradley21 said:

I, and many others, have already done this in this thread, in other threads, via PKM's, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Reddit....bloody everywhere because the issues are so blatant. 

 

- Ping pong cross-field balls are absurd

- Players refuse to cross

- 1v1's are pointless

- Long shots are taken too often and from stupid locations, as well as from absurd techniques like on the turn first time, weak foot first time....etc.

- Most goals are long shots

- The main way to score a 1v1 is to hit it long straight down the middle as the centerbacks always push up a few steps higher than the fullbacks, playing the striker onside. Even then, the striker routinely chooses to not advance into the box, and shoots from the edge or outside of the box. 

- Passing is very one-dimensional with it always going out to the winger who doesn't cross, and instead plays it to the edge of the area, it's then passed further along the edge and back and forward until a long shot is taken

- Players dwell on the ball so goddamn long

- Through balls into the box are under-tuned

- Fullbacks punt the ball up-field no matter what your passing style and tempo are

 

This had the potential to be a great ME if these issues are worked out, but i have no faith judging by how the demo has such awful flaws that are painfully obvious to see for anybody who has functioning eyes. To release it in this state so close to release is not a good sign that this will be fixed, at least not before the new year. It is a pathetic state, and SI should be embarrassed. It really is a shame because there's a lot of clear improvements from last year, but the things i listed above ruin all that in its current state. 

 

I doubt many here will remember, but when FML was a thing there was a period where long shots were as OP as they are in FM20 (probably more so in FML actually) and people played 460 and just smashed long shots in constantly. That's what this feels like, only we don't have the benefit of more regular updates like FML did, so the game may be stuck like this for some time. 

This!

I really  dont know  what they worked on .. the ME moved 5 times  backwards 

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