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7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

DOFs shouldn't ever be perfect, they should be open to getting it right and wrong, just like real life DOFs

Perfect wasn't the right word. A logical decisionmaking DOF might describe my wish better. But then again, just a wish for future versions of FM.

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1 minute ago, Mensell76 said:

Perfect wasn't the right word. A logical decisionmaking DOF might describe my wish better. But then again, just a wish for future versions of FM.

You can definitely argue for better AI in staff, that's a fair assessment. Will be good to see how they have come along in fm20

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13 minutes ago, Bigpole said:

on benjy livestream I saw ZEBRA TURIN team. Surely name changed due to licence issues like in fifa?

Yup thats Juventus, Konami now own  the worldwide rights to use their real name in games8

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You can definitely argue for better AI in staff, that's a fair assessment. Will be good to see how they have come along in fm20

Yes fingers crossed better DOF ties in nicely with the new club vision. Like I said  SI seems to have put a lot of effort in making clubs more unique and distinctive, one of my main FM wishes of many years. Really looking forward to experiencing the new clubcultures.

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6 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Well in Italy for example the idea of DOF being hired/fired by the manager would be totally crazy. Manager directly making offers for players and negotiating their contracts also quite unrealistic. Managers in Italy are very lucky if DOF buys the type of players that the manager wants, more often than not the DOF just buys players he likes (and likely with the agents he likes), and manager might have never requested them... Of course this would be absolutely frustrating and almost gamebreaking in FM, but if realism is the ultimate goal that's how it works in certain leagues.

Which I would not mind at all if the DOF was implemented well. Distinction between clubs due to club vision and certain responsibilities is an exciting path for SI to introduce. 

Edited by Mensell76
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12 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Well in Italy for example the idea of DOF being hired/fired by the manager would be totally crazy. Manager directly making offers for players and negotiating their contracts also quite unrealistic. Managers in Italy are very lucky if DOF buys the type of players that the manager wants, more often than not the DOF just buys players he likes (and likely with the agents he likes), and manager might have never requested them... Of course this would be absolutely frustrating and almost gamebreaking in FM, but if realism is the ultimate goal that's how it works in certain leagues.

Yeah in Italy DOF's have been known to totally mess teams up as well which is something I actually like to see happen in the game too, case in point Roma

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3 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Which I would not mind at all if the DOF was implemented well. Distinction between clubs due to club vision and certain responsibilities is an exciting path for SI to introduce. 

I agree with you, but the idea of playing FM without transfers and scouting goes against everything I believe :lol:

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5 minutes ago, kandersson said:

I agree with you, but the idea of playing FM without transfers and scouting goes against everything I believe :lol:

Against my believes as well but in a long term save it could be great to "work" for a club that just treats you as first team coach. A balance in which you could still veto a signing could work.

Let's see what fm2020 brings.

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2 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Against my believes as well but in a long term save it could be great to "work" for a club that just treats you as first team coach. A balance in which you could still veto a signing could work.

Let's see what fm2020 brings.

No veto. If you sign for this you get the full Monchi experience at Roma, or Mirabelli at Milan. Take it or leave it :D. But more seriously I could see this being a future optional feature in some leagues.

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8 minutes ago, kandersson said:

No veto. If you sign for this you get the full Monchi experience at Roma, or Mirabelli at Milan. Take it or leave it :D. But more seriously I could see this being a future optional feature in some leagues.

I'll take it :D

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1 hour ago, kandersson said:

Well in Italy for example the idea of DOF being hired/fired by the manager would be totally crazy. Manager directly making offers for players and negotiating their contracts also quite unrealistic. Managers in Italy are very lucky if DOF buys the type of players that the manager wants, more often than not the DOF just buys players he likes (and likely with the agents he likes), and manager might have never requested them... Of course this would be absolutely frustrating and almost gamebreaking in FM, but if realism is the ultimate goal that's how it works in certain leagues.

I agree, there are certainly DOF's buying players that managers wouldn't choose. I'm more concerned about a DOF buying or recommending players that don't meet the criteria set by the board in their club philosophy. I don't think any version of the game would work if these DOF actions/traits are imposed on the gamer. They could be offered as options though, it would be a huge step away from that generic feeling that the DOF role currently has within the game up to FM19.

Edited by janrzm
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7 hours ago, prot651 said:

Compare the grass texture . Don't get how we came to think this is nice . FM20 Vs FM12 ……. 8 years

582804305_Annotation2019-10-23225238.thumb.png.4d34d315b4487506ec83e6f980ca9490.png1101446040_Annotation2019-10-24212653.thumb.png.14adaa05ac6d991fc19124f5e262cf5d.png

Would there be any possible way to make FM20 grass look like FM12?

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20 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I'm more concerned about a DOF buying or recommending players that don't meet the criteria set by the board in their club philosophy.

I'm more concerned that they'd sign 3 left backs when you have zero right backs and no reserve goalkeeper.

Let's not run before we can walk.

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Just now, rdbayly said:

I'm more concerned that they'd sign 3 left backs when you have zero right backs and no reserve goalkeeper.

Let's not run before we can walk.

:lol:

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22 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

And here's a quick game for everyone to play:

Compare the stadium architecture and colour pallet in the image on the right, to that on the left.

Now ask yourself which one is closer to reality, and which one is based on a very bad acid trip.

Finally (and most importantly) ask yourself these questions:

  • Why have these design decisions been taken (are SI's hands tied due to licensing agreements?)
  • Why are the same out of place stadium assets (e.g. over sized giant TVs, giant football props, picnic tables) being reused every single year when they have no business being there?
  • Why are colours still so over-saturated?
  • Why have pitch textures degraded so much compared to a title from 7 (seven) years ago?

I know it's not a major issue for others, but for some reason it bothers me a great deal. 

 

Yes it is a dissapoinment more so because some of them (The Riverside) look ok and others (London Road Peterbrough) look really poor, personally I would rather have less variety and more realism

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23 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

And here's a quick game for everyone to play:

Compare the stadium architecture and colour pallet in the image on the right, to that on the left.

Now ask yourself which one is closer to reality, and which one is based on a very bad acid trip.

Finally (and most importantly) ask yourself these questions:

  • Why have these design decisions been taken (are SI's hands tied due to licensing agreements?)
  • Why are the same out of place stadium assets (e.g. over sized giant TVs, giant football props, picnic tables) being reused every single year when they have no business being there?
  • Why are colours still so over-saturated?
  • Why have pitch textures degraded so much compared to a title from 7 (seven) years ago?

I know it's not a major issue for others, but for some reason it bothers me a great deal. 

 

 

For me, they are all valid points and whilst they may not be "big deals" individually the frustration is multiplied when something appears to go backwards. I do think it's possible (similar in photography) that when you working too intensely on something it can go off on a tangent and you're simply too close to see it. Step back for a while and you regain a bit of clarity.

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13 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

The SI one with Miles & those two lads introducing the game plus a bunch of others out there 

I have just watched the match on the live stream with the bad weather again  and I have watched a few of the others and I have seen no bare earth where the linesman runs and whilst there are slight marks all over the pitch no bare patches in the goal areas. both were present in past versions.

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2 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

I have just watched the match on the live stream with the bad weather again  and I have watched a few of the others and I have seen no bare earth where the linesman runs and whilst there are slight marks all over the pitch no bare patches in the goal areas. both were present in past versions.

From what I gather, these games are all played on freshly laid turf & expect over winter it will churn up & wear, rather than over pre-season 

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21 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

From what I gather, these games are all played on freshly laid turf & expect over winter it will churn up & wear, rather than over pre-season 

Do I want to see that considering how terrible the pitch looks now "freshly laid"? 

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1 minute ago, Double0Seven said:

Do I want to see that considering how terrible the pitch looks now "freshly laid"? 

I heard somewhere, I think it during that stream, that that's was happens when it's first laid then it settles down a bit 

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11 hours ago, Bigpole said:

on benjy livestream I saw ZEBRA TURIN team. Surely name changed due to licence issues like in fifa?

That'll be rectified as soon as the beta drops with the real name fix that gets released by a number of other forums

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12 часов назад, kandersson сказал:

Well in Italy for example the idea of DOF being hired/fired by the manager would be totally crazy. Manager directly making offers for players and negotiating their contracts also quite unrealistic. Managers in Italy are very lucky if DOF buys the type of players that the manager wants, more often than not the DOF just buys players he likes (and likely with the agents he likes), and manager might have never requested them... Of course this would be absolutely frustrating and almost gamebreaking in FM, but if realism is the ultimate goal that's how it works in certain leagues.

please dont confuse realism and weak AI decisions :) About Italy is bit of a stretch.
DoF was insane in FM18, but I can see any logic in his decision in FM19. We need more interaction with him and interaction DoF - Club owner

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On 23/10/2019 at 21:56, Rashidi said:

totally agree, i for one rather have something simpler which i expect will happen, but xGa its a can of worms, plus there is no one methodology. SI would need to construct their own version within the match engine of the game, and thats probably another million calculations under the hood per game.

Shouldn't the ME already calculate a value here they could roughly go by? Else all finishes were the throw of a dice. :D IN the short-term, the least the game would need though are a breakdown of shots that come:

- from open positional Play
- from set pieces
- counter attacks

Similar to how Mainstream sites such as Whoscored.com break down each Matches shot data. That may even make the game's final match Reports a bit more Logical. F'r instance, a side that barely creates any shots from Play and has like 70% of ist shots from set pieces may be one that struggles to break a defense down from actual Play. A side conceding tons of counter attacks may have its back door wide open. 

That's simplistic -- but still more than what is in now. The game's match reports after all still work by the logic that if Team A had tons moaaar shots and didn't win it was "unlucky". That's not how Football works (ask any counter attacking side). It's not how the ME works (ask any rage quitter :D) . It's not even how SI's own AI works who's rightfully only ever cared About one stat the game has on offer, which is the scoreline. :D 

Talking About the AI, given its dynamicism and reaction to scorelines; simple xG wouldn't do. Let's say the AI shuts up shop (as it so frequently likes) and only starts attacking at the 80th minutes mark. Say, because it has just conceded the 0-1 in Minute 79. Then it makes a big switch, and despite having zero shots before, creates good Quality chances, and scores from them. Then you'd actually Need timelines (Maybe Players would then even understand the AI's match Management better). I mean, AI match Management can be a bit extreme. However, changes can significantly influence the course of real Football Matches likewise. I guess such "timelines" could already be done with the data the game currently offers (even the simple shots, as sudden changes or "Spikes" may be indicative of an AI switch).

 

 

Edited by Svenc
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31 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Shouldn't the ME already calculate a value here they could roughly go by? Else all finishes were the throw of a dice. :D IN the short-term, the least the game would need though are a breakdown of shots that come:

- from open positional Play
- from set pieces
- counter attacks

Similar to how Mainstream sites such as Whoscored.com break down each Matches shot data. That may even make the game's final match Reports a bit more Logical. F'r instance, a side that barely creates any shots from Play and has like 70% of ist shots from set pieces may be one that struggles to break a defense down from actual Play. A side conceding tons of counter attacks may have its back door wide open. 

That's simplistic -- but still more than what is in now. The game's match reports after all still work by the logic that if Team A had tons moaaar shots and didn't win it was "unlucky". That's not how Football works (ask any counter attacking side). It's not how the ME works (ask any rage quitter :D) . It's not even how SI's own AI works who's rightfully only ever cared About one stat the game has on offer, which is the scoreline. :D 

Talking About the AI, given its dynamicism and reaction to scorelines; simple xG wouldn't do. Let's say the AI shuts up shop (as it so frequently likes) and only starts attacking at the 80th minutes mark. Say, because it has just conceded the 0-1 in Minute 79. Then it makes a big switch, and despite having zero shots before, creates good Quality chances, and scores from them. Then you'd actually Need timelines (Maybe Players would then even understand the AI's match Management better). I mean, AI match Management can be a bit extreme. However, changes can significantly influence the course of real Football Matches likewise. I guess such "timelines" could already be done with the data the game currently offers.

 

 

It would be ideal to have a better spread of numbers. Personally when i do my analysis i break it down the same way - goals from open play - minus all others. And i typically break them down further if I am so inclined - favoured foot, etc, ruling out headers as well. The timelines is only useful if we can map out specific changes to the formation but therein lies the challenge.

Did they score more goals in the last 10 minutes because they switched roles, duties or mentality? Or was it just because my team did something different? That is the challenge. When it comes to introducing timelines there are variables that can happen and each variable needs to be included for the analysis for it to be useful. That would be a great feature to have, and I will probably suggest something simpler for FM21. For FM20 i am hoping to see my suggestion go through. I made a suggestion to break shots down -  open play, set pieces, inside the box outside the box. And i wanted to see the existing ccc's broken down into chances created by formation and in totality. The latter is not difficult, the former on the other hand needs SI to map each shot down and then draw out those that are relevant. That would be more work and more intensive. I think having a breakdown of the total chances you have created by formation is more likely to happen because that information already exists.

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1 hour ago, pats said:

So inverted wingers are now available for AMR/AML positions which is a great news. What other new player roles or changes to existing roles are there?

Possibly a dumb question but what is the difference between an Inside Forward and Inverted Winger and could someone name a real life example of an Inverted Winger on the AML or AMR slot?

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2 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Possibly a dumb question but what is the difference between an Inside Forward and Inverted Winger and could someone name a real life example of an Inverted Winger on the AML or AMR slot?

I'd say Salah is an Inside Forward, while Robben is an Inside Winger.

Edited by XaW
typo
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Something I saw with Serge Gnabry the other night for Bayern, the goal he scored, he cut in from the right across the edge of the penalty are & fired in a shot , I was thinking if maybe that's what an IW does, look more to cut in-field rather than drive into the area like an IF 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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just a quick question guys and gals

 

am i the only one that has noticed that the shot power is massively overpowered ?

 

shots hitting the net from 30 yards out before the keeper has even moved?

 

just doesn't seem right or realistic ?

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50 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Possibly a dumb question but what is the difference between an Inside Forward and Inverted Winger and could someone name a real life example of an Inverted Winger on the AML or AMR slot?

When the play is in the final third, an inside forward will be looking to get into goal scoring positions off the ball (Salah) whereas an inverted winger will mostly be holding his position by staying wide and cut-in from there. (Sane and Sterling)

Edited by pats
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2 hours ago, pats said:

So inverted wingers are now available for AMR/AML positions which is a great news. What other new player roles or changes to existing roles are there?

Am I being stupid, or are inverted wingers just another name for inside forwards?

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb pats:

When the play is in the final third, an inside forward will be looking to get into goal scoring positions off the ball (Salah) whereas an inverted winger will mostly be holding his position by staying wide and cut-in from there. (Sane and Sterling)

but what is the difference to a normal winger then?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

but what is the difference to a normal winger then?

 

 

That's how I sort've saw it, a winger runs vertically with the ball (down the touchline) an inverted winger runs horizontally on the ball (in-field) not necessarily diagonally into the box

I'll see if I can get a screen grab of the description 

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2 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

but what is the difference to a normal winger then?

 

 

Instead of cutting in, a normal winger mostly looks to dribble out wide looking for a crossing opportunity. That's his primary job. He may still cut-in and play like an inverted winger if his preferred foot is on the opposite side (left footed winger on the right and right footed winger on the left).

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9 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

IW.thumb.png.fd999ca102ed19ccc80a9fda7ef52ae4.png

Thanks. It seems the inverted winger is supposed to operate more in the halfspace, much like the inverted wingbacks, when off the ball, while the Inside Forward positionally starts as a Winger but will cut inside when on the ball.

Very useful when using attacking wingbacks. Much like Bergwijn is playing at PSV in his AML position.

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1 minute ago, Mensell76 said:

Thanks. It seems the inverted winger is supposed to operate more in the halfspace, much like the inverted wingbacks, when off the ball, while the Inside Forward positionally starts as a Winger but will cut inside when on the ball.

Other way around

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4 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Other way around

Yes I think you could be right but what does the description of an IF say?

Perhaps SI could add on and off the ball descriptions to clarify the distinction between IW and IF

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41 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Thanks. It seems the inverted winger is supposed to operate more in the halfspace, much like the inverted wingbacks, when off the ball, while the Inside Forward positionally starts as a Winger but will cut inside when on the ball.

Very useful when using attacking wingbacks. Much like Bergwijn is playing at PSV in his AML position.

To add on to this, the IW is most likely meant to play with options that are different to the winger. While a winger is primarily a flank player, and an IF is more or an attacking goalscorer arriving from wider positions, an IW is more of a creator half space operator that can go wide or stay in the half space but he won't be running down the byeline. Instead he may play a lot more like Leroy Sane as opposed to Mo Salah. Its a role that we have needed, I was using a W(S) playing on the opposite foot with traits in FM19 to achieve this affect, now we probably have a role that doesn't need silly tweaks. I will have an IW guide coming out when the beta launches. It's not a hard role to envisage and my videos now tend to get shorter as I grow older. I think both roles (IF and IW) can start wide and drift inside, one attacks the other creates.

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