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New Haircut in FM2020


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Will there be a new haircut in 3D match engine of FM2020 beside bald, short, medium, and long?

I want afro haircut (for example Axel Witsel, Leroy Sane, and Fellaini), curly (for example: Mo Salah), dreadlock, Wavy hair, Ibrahimovic style, and Van dijk style.

Edited by baskor
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  • SI Staff

Technically afros are in the FM20 ME, but only for newgens. 

For 'real' players it's always randomised (licensing reasons). You may remember when FM2018 was first released that some players had mohawks or afros at random (which was promptly changed to randomise between 'generic' hairstyles).

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On 26/08/2019 at 17:28, HUNT3R said:

There's a feature request section.  :thup:

Yep, have requested it there.

 

 

On 27/08/2019 at 16:07, Jack Joyce said:

For 'real' players it's always randomised (licensing reasons).

For licensing reasons? Please tell me this is a joke. So a player with short blonde hair can have short blonde hair in the 3D engine, but a player with an afro isn't able to have an afro, for licensing reasons? Soon you just won't be able to have players running around that look too much like, you know, players, for licensing issues.

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3 hours ago, WojciechZed said:

Yep, have requested it there.

 

 

For licensing reasons? Please tell me this is a joke. So a player with short blonde hair can have short blonde hair in the 3D engine, but a player with an afro isn't able to have an afro, for licensing reasons? Soon you just won't be able to have players running around that look too much like, you know, players, for licensing issues.

You have an explanation from SI of the reasons for this- unless you have an in-depth knowledge of how licensing issues pertaining to players image rights works, you may have to just accept this

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Given how often players chop and change hairstyles and age of course it would become a near impossible activity to keep on top of anyway and bang for buck I expect most would prefer assistant researcher effort is given to player and club attributes

 

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22 hours ago, FrazT said:

You have an explanation from SI of the reasons for this- unless you have an in-depth knowledge of how licensing issues pertaining to players image rights works, you may have to just accept this

Why should I 'just accept' something that makes no logical sense? I'm not necessarily blaming SI. I mean if it isn't SI but some idiotic licensing laws covering the type of haircut out can put on certain players, then that is, absurd. If I was however part of the SI team, I would want to discuss this issue with whoever has this 'license' as it simply isn't fair to do that. I mean, how can you copyright an afro for crying out loud? Lots of people have afros.

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It is not a licensing issue on any specific hairstyle.  The license in granted to players over their image and they have rights to that image. That is why the image is randomised as was said above.

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What does 'image is randomised' mean by the way?

Edit
To FrazT. Not cool to shut down my other thread. It was a legitimate topic on licensing issues, and I have not had it explained to me 'at length' as you said in your reason for closing it. The SI staff member has so far replied with one sentence on it in this thread, hardly at length, is it? I still have questions on this topic because it hasn't been explained at length.

This is just an example of you abusing your power.

My question on long hair was legitimate too. Long hair doesn't isn't in the FM game for any player whatsoever, even if they are hardly known and very unlikely to have a licensing copyright on their image.

Edited by WojciechZed
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@WojciechZed  There is no abuse of power going on and that kind of phrase is not appreciated.  It has been explained to you by SI (in this thread) that hair styles for real players are randomised due to licensing issues.

If that's explained to you and you then go create a new topic asking the exact same question, expect that thread to be closed and explained why it was closed (which it was).

With regards your other questions:

11 hours ago, WojciechZed said:

I mean, how can you copyright an afro for crying out loud? Lots of people have afros.

The afro (or any other style) is not copyrighted.  But player image rights are licensed and if a player happens to have an afro (or whatever style) that cannot be shown in game because of those image rights (or unless SI are willing to shell out a ludicrous sum of money).

That really is all there is to it and SI are unable to discuss legally binding licensing issues in any great depth or detail.  It's not because they don't want to, it's because they can't.

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Well I don't think SI answered the question at length, and that's what I was told in the explanation for closing the thread. That's why I asked the question in another thread, where I hoped they would answer this in more detail. Now if they are not able to answer the question, or not allowed to, that's a different story.

I still don't think that the image rights explains why no real life player featuring in FM has an afro or long hair. I mean surely there are plenty of real life players who do not have licensing image rights, that could have an afro or long hair in FM, as they do IRL.

Also, my question on what 'randomised image' means wasn't answered? Does it literally mean it's a completely random image given to a player, or are there some boundaries, such as, the skin colour has to be a certain colour etc?

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51 minutes ago, WojciechZed said:

Also, my question on what 'randomised image' means wasn't answered? Does it literally mean it's a completely random image given to a player, or are there some boundaries, such as, the skin colour has to be a certain colour etc?

If you see a real player with the wrong skin tone in a match, raise it as a bug report.

I know this all seems crazy to you - it does to me as well tbh - but nobody here is an expert in the field of player image rights and the licensing thereof.  So if we're told there are licensing issues around this (lets face it, it's about money and SI not letting themselves get fleeced by paying stupid amounts for the rights) then I'm afraid we just have to accept it (as noted above).  The only way that's going to change is if either a) SI decide to throw all that money at people for the rights; or b) the law changes.

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Okay, but I am assuming licensing relating to some players (probably the more famous ones) and no FM players having long hair and different issues. I assume that SI could include long hair in future FMs, for those real life players who do not have licensing laws in place around their image.

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Il 27/8/2019 in 17:07 , Jack Joyce ha scritto:

You may remember when FM2018 was first released that some players had mohawks or afros at random (which was promptly changed to randomise between 'generic' hairstyles).

And unfortunately that randomization included referees too.

Having on the pitch 7-8 player on mohawk style, officials included, were a bit out of lines an, according to my tastes, really really terrible to watch.

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This is what confuses me. Why do some players get completely randomised haircuts? Why can't somebody with an afro haircut, get an afro haircut? There are different types of afros in real life, but somebody like say, Willian, could be given a generic afro to at least look somewhat similar to real life. If giving him a generic afro isn't acceptable, then perhaps giving him black skin is also unacceptable, because he is black so it is too similar to him? 

Anyway, I know we won't get anywhere with this, but I still continue to find the licensing rules utterly absurd. It's like when some people want to copyright a word or something.

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On 27/08/2019 at 22:07, Jack Joyce said:

Technically afros are in the FM20 ME, but only for newgens. 

For 'real' players it's always randomised (licensing reasons). You may remember when FM2018 was first released that some players had mohawks or afros at random (which was promptly changed to randomise between 'generic' hairstyles).

Will afro haircut and other haircut can be edited by data editor and ingame editor?

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The Assistant researchers can adjust skin tones so if you see issues raise it directly with the assistant researcher. Each club at the start of each FM revision has a thread where these sort of things can be raised and so updated

Haircuts are randomised for the reasons stated. There is no option to set these via editors that I am aware of.

I can see why people may want a greater reality in this respect but licencing laws are fact. As I mentioned before if you have a budget on where to spend money would you want this focused on hair do's even if this was possible or would you want it focused on what the game is about, Football Management. In terms of immersion myself personally I would rather see focus elsewhere and we have a requested features thread to raise our own opinions and ideas. Maybe a hair do editor could be a suggestion

There is no reason why this subject shouldn't be discussed but the reasons why not have clearly been detailed.

As an assistant researcher myself I might cry if I had to set hair do's but their might be fun giving someone a Bobby Charlton :D

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Yep that's very strange. You can use the real name of a player and put their real photo in FM, but making that player look anything like his real life self in the 3D match engine, is a big no no.

I like the suggestion of allowing us to edit certain things about a player's looks, such as hair, in some type of editor, or even in game, like you can alter your own look (as manager) whenever you feel like, changing clothes, hairstyle, facial hair etc.

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Well... if I have to be honest... I understand the licensing and all... but not being allowed to reproduce a correct haircut.. I can't understand that. How an haircut is licensed is beyond my understanding. And why this doesn't apply to the skin color in example? Or a player's height and weight? I can understand the image, a good representation of his face in example... but an haircut? I don't think they are copywrited, are they?

I don't know... in fact I know nothing and if they say there's a licensing issue, then there surely is.

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Perhaps (and pure speculation) there is also a question of practicality.

So perhaps it's more practical - from the 3D engine perspective - to treat all players the same by simply randomising haircuts from a select few, rather than the alternative of having to keep thousands of haircuts up to date and then programming the 3D engine to be able to reproduce them all.  Combine that with flagging whose image is licensed and whose isn't and I imagine it quickly becomes a nightmare to program the 3D engine to keep track of it all.  Therefore simply keep the appropriate skin tone and randomise the rest.

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4 hours ago, herne79 said:

Perhaps (and pure speculation) there is also a question of practicality.

So perhaps it's more practical - from the 3D engine perspective - to treat all players the same by simply randomising haircuts from a select few, rather than the alternative of having to keep thousands of haircuts up to date and then programming the 3D engine to be able to reproduce them all.  Combine that with flagging whose image is licensed and whose isn't and I imagine it quickly becomes a nightmare to program the 3D engine to keep track of it all.  Therefore simply keep the appropriate skin tone and randomise the rest.

But that's just it, they don't completely randomise the rest, do they? They distinguish bold players from those with hair, so I don't understand why they can't distinguish players with long hair from those with short hair. I'm not saying the 3D engine has to have players with thousands of different haircuts, as I am sure many different types of haircuts exist and it would be a lot of trouble to go into that type of detail, but a few more than two would be nice. For now we pretty much have short and bald. How about short, long, afro and bald? That's only 4 to distinguish, and would already make it look a great deal better in 3D.

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On 30/08/2019 at 20:21, MrPompey said:

The Assistant researchers can adjust skin tones so if you see issues raise it directly with the assistant researcher. Each club at the start of each FM revision has a thread where these sort of things can be raised and so updated

Can researchers adjust hair colour too? I have seen quite a few players who are blonde in real life, but for some reason have got dark hair in FM. A couple of examples. Abate, who I just signed, seems to have dark brown hair, when his actual colour is blonde or very light brown at best. Also Frenkie de Jong seems to have got brown hair in FM too, when again, in real life, he is blonde.

As for skin tone. I am currently managing Dortmund and both and Akanji and Diallo appear to have very light brown skin and also have 'white people' hair (couldn't think of a better way to say it). To me they look like tanned white guys basically.

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For FM19 yes for hair colour there are some options and skin tone can be adjusted. With hair players may have a natural colour but at some point dye it. It may be difficult to keep up with players who constantly change their hair colour.

When FM20 is released for open beta check the players you mention and if you can support your claim then raise the problem in the relevant data issues thread that will eventually be created for specific leagues / nations and it will get reviewed

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Hair - light brown, dark brown, red, grey, black, blond are what you will see players as currently.  You can always raise a request as potential future enhancements whether you buy FM20 or not though it doesnt necessarily mean it will get adopted but it will get read.

As always with any request its good to say whats wrong but better to detail also what you would like to see instead.

Even with this limited choice I have seen posts where people are in disagreement on which hair colour is right :) I guess as a player if you are exposed to the elements on most days then this may have an effect in itself in addition to fashion which more and more players seem to follow

 

 

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