Tactical Suggestions

[TacticNewb]

Playing ok with this current tactic and was just curious if anyone would do anything different to either the roles or instructions.

                                Sk d

Fb s             Cd d           Cd d            Wb a

W a             b2b             dlp d            Iw a

                                Am a

                                 Cf s 

Im playing a Balanced mentality with the following instructions

Pass into space, play out of defense, be more expressive

Roll it out, distribute quickly, counter, counter-press

Higher def line, more urgent, stay on feet, tighter marking, use offside trap

DLP has close down less to keep some shape in the middle

 

I get better results against bigger teams and struggle to open up and break down smaller teams who sit back, what changes would you make to either draw out the opposition or camp in their half and probe for openings

 

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

Sk d

Fb s             Cd d           Cd d            Wb a

W a             b2b             dlp d            Iw a

                                Am a

                                 Cf s 

Im playing a Balanced mentality with the following instructions

Pass into space, play out of defense, be more expressive

Roll it out, distribute quickly, counter, counter-press

Higher def line, more urgent, stay on feet, tighter marking, use offside trap

DLP has close down less to keep some shape in the middle

 

5 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

was just curious if anyone would do anything different to either the roles or instructions

Here is the list of what I personally would change in your tactic:

- WB on attack would become WB on support (because a DLP on defend can hardly be enough to defensively protect the entire left flank on his own in a system without a DM such as 4411, 442 etc.)

- would use Pass into space occasionally (situationally), not as a part of a starting tactic

- would avoid more urgent pressing (because I don't want to needlessly compromise my defensive shape)

- would be wary of counter-press (unless I am 100% confident that my players have what it takes to successfully execute the instruction)

- would be very careful with tight marking as a team instruction when playing on a higher D-line (because in order for this to work, you need players - not only defenders - who are both defensively capable and fast enough)

- actually, rather than telling the whole team to mark tighter, I would use PIs to ask the 4 midfielders to mark tighter

Other instructions - play out of defence and be more expressive - are neither right or wrong in and of themselves. It depends on how you want to play and whether your players are good enough to play in that way. So without knowledge of your team (players), I cannot tell you if I would use or remove these instructions (or maybe add some more).

[TacticNewb]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Here is the list of what I personally would change in your tactic:

- WB on attack would become WB on support (because a DLP on defend can hardly be enough to defensively protect the entire left flank on his own in a system without a DM such as 4411, 442 etc.)

- would use Pass into space occasionally (situationally), not as a part of a starting tactic

- would avoid more urgent pressing (because I don't want to needlessly compromise my defensive shape)

- would be wary of counter-press (unless I am 100% confident that my players have what it takes to successfully execute the instruction)

- would be very careful with tight marking as a team instruction when playing on a higher D-line (because in order for this to work, you need players - not only defenders - who are both defensively capable and fast enough)

- actually, rather than telling the whole team to mark tighter, I would use PIs to ask the 4 midfielders to mark tighter

Other instructions - play out of defence and be more expressive - are neither right or wrong in and of themselves. It depends on how you want to play and whether your players are good enough to play in that way. So without knowledge of your team (players), I cannot tell you if I would use or remove these instructions (or maybe add some more).

Forgot to mention at the start that I was Ac milan.

I did think the pressing and counter pressing would leave me open but I thought taking them off would make me less proactive and standoffish.

I'm not 100% sure how I want to play, I like the idea of winning the ball quickly and using quick short passes to overwhelm the opposition. My thoughts on using the DLP were to move the ball from defence to midfield better and maybe ping a long pass when the striker or winger are bombing forward.

Be more expressive was added because I seem to struggle to break teams down and with having players like Paqueta, Bonaventura, Pavon, Castillejo and Çalhanoglu maybe they would give me that little extra.

If my current tactic with your adjustments was used as my balanced starter tactic what role and instruction changes would you do to make a tactic to use against weaker teams who just camp in their own box.

I have also bought Cristian Pavon (Boca), Lucas Silva (Real Madrid) and Johannes Geis (Ex Schalke). Sold Biglia and Suso. Incase that helps with anything

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

I'm not 100% sure how I want to play, I like the idea of winning the ball quickly and using quick short passes to overwhelm the opposition

When you say "winning the ball quickly", I guess you mean winning the ball/intercepting opposition attacks higher up the pitch and then look to quickly create chances by a swift exchange of passes between your attacking players. Am I right or you meant something different? 

 

14 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

Be more expressive was added because I seem to struggle to break teams down and with having players like Paqueta, Bonaventura, Pavon, Castillejo and Çalhanoglu maybe they would give me that little extra

Given that you are Milan, I guess the BME is not a bad idea. I would probably use it as well  

 

15 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

If my current tactic with your adjustments was used as my balanced starter tactic what role and instruction changes would you do to make a tactic to use against weaker teams who just camp in their own box

I would first reconsider the formation. Not sure if 4411/442 is the right system for what you want to achieve. Maybe 4141dm wide(i.e. 4123) or even 4231 (depending on the type and quality of your players). 

[TacticNewb]

That is exactly what I mean, (mines wasn't as poetic as yours 😂). I think I have the players capable of trapping and passing the ball in a quick fashion whilst keeping that high intensity and also to be able to win the ball well.

 

I'm aiming to have 3 or 4 players in advanced positions who you would class as ' total footballers ' so I want them to be able to use their magic if and when they choose.

 

If using either the 4123 or 4231 what roles and instructions would you choose to use whilst trying to keep to my general idea of how I want to play?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, TacticNewb said:

That is exactly what I mean, (mines wasn't as poetic as yours 😂). I think I have the players capable of trapping and passing the ball in a quick fashion whilst keeping that high intensity and also to be able to win the ball well.

 

I'm aiming to have 3 or 4 players in advanced positions who you would class as ' total footballers ' so I want them to be able to use their magic if and when they choose.

 

If using either the 4123 or 4231 what roles and instructions would you choose to use whilst trying to keep to my general idea of how I want to play?

I haven't had enough time to analyze your team, but assuming that you have a lot of quality players at Milan, here is one possible example of a good 4231 setup that should allow you to achieve your desired style of play:

PO/PFat

IFsu                         TQ                        Wat

CMde      BBM/MEZsu

 

Fbat       CDde    CD(or BPD)de    IWBde/su

SKsu/de

And make sure that both CMs are defensively reliable players, because it's vital for a 4231.

Mentality - Positive (in tougher games you may consider switching to Balanced)

- play out of defence, shorter passing, higher tempo, be more expressive (optional instruction - work ball into box)

- counter (optional instruction, but not against strong opposition - counter-press)

- higher DL, higher LOE, use offside trap (and then use either Prevent short GKD or split block)

And here is a possible 4123 setup with the same instructions:

DLFat

IFsu                                                Wat

MEZat    DLPsu

HB

FBsu       CDde    CD/BPDde     WBsu

SKsu/de

But given that I don't know (all) your players, take both these setups with a pinch of salt. When time allows me, I'll analyze your team and see if I would modify something or not 

P.S; in the 4123 (4141dm wide) version, you can even go with much higher LOE.

 

[TacticNewb]

The information you have given me on tactics, roles and instructions are more than enough so I wouldn't worry about further analysing my team. From other comments and posts you provide on the forum I've got no issues with taking your word on it. Both tactics you have provided give me canvas I can work on for what players I need for positions and roles.

On the 4123 tactic is the FB to be behind the IF and WB behind the W or was that to be swapped around?

Thanks for taking time out to answer my (probably obvious) questions and issues.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

On the 4123 tactic is the FB to be behind the IF and WB behind the W or was that to be swapped around?

Exactly as in my post - FB support on the left behind the IF and attacking mezzala, and WB support on the right. Another option is this:

DLFat

IFsu                                              Wat

DLPsu     MEZsu

HB

FBat      CDde   CD/BPDde     IWBde/su

SKde/su

[TacticNewb]

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Exactly as in my post - FB support on the left behind the IF and attacking mezzala, and WB support on the right. Another option is this:

DLFat

IFsu                                              Wat

DLPsu     MEZsu

HB

FBat      CDde   CD/BPDde     IWBde/su

SKde/su

I wasn't sure because we're usually told that a WB behind a W isn't suitable and should be put behind a role that cuts inside to let overlaps happen and usually a FB is partened with a W... or so we are told. If using a HB would you tell the CBs to stay wider or does that naturally happen in-game? I will have a look later when I'm on but was just curious for your take on it

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, TacticNewb said:

I wasn't sure because we're usually told that a WB behind a W isn't suitable and should be put behind a role that cuts inside to let overlaps happen and usually a FB is partened with a W... or so we are told

Various combinations are possible and can work, depending on the context (which also includes other roles and duties within the system, not just the two on a flank). And besides roles, you have to pay attention to duties as well. 

 

1 hour ago, TacticNewb said:

If using a HB would you tell the CBs to stay wider or does that naturally happen in-game?

I would tell the left CB to stay wider (PI), regardless of the HB. In order to sort of cover for the attacking fullback (but that PI is rather optional and is not necessary).

[TacticNewb]

I was looking through this thread last night and noticed you mentioned a split block, how would I translate that into the game? Would it be through using tighter marking on certain positions and potentially using opposition instructions?

[lferreira]

You basically have two lines of press. You can achieve that by leaving your pressing on default and telling specific players (your most advanced ones, normally) to close down more. 

On your formation you can probably tell your two most advanced players and two wingers to close down more. If they are overlapping I'd use opposite instructions instead so you don't have both your fullbacks and wingers closing down the same player only for the other wide player to make a run behind you. 

Ideally you want some players to press more and others maintaining the defensive shape - the back four and your defensive midfielder.

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, TacticNewb said:

I was looking through this thread last night and noticed you mentioned a split block, how would I translate that into the game? Would it be through using tighter marking on certain positions and potentially using opposition instructions?

Simply put, the split block/press is when you leave team pressing on default and then use PIs to ask your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more (max pressing). It works best with top-heavy formations (like 4231 or 424) and can work decently with a medium-heavy system (like your 4123) because there are enough players in a good position to apply early pressing on the opposition. Speaking specifically of your formation, I personally would not have more than 4 players - and these would logically be the striker, both wide forwards and the more attack-minded of the 2 CMs - told to press more urgently.

In short, rather than telling the whole team to press with more urgency - and thus risk disrupting your defensive shape - it's only your most advanced players who are asked to press more. 

[TacticNewb]

Thanks for your views and ideas towards what I'm trying to do. I'll implement these into my save, see how I get on with it all and I'll report back at the end of the season if all goes well