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It seems like a few of the things really tie together.

And the new staff seem to complement the new modules too.

The thing that worries me is the Playing time mechanics, it looks like it has the potential to get really quite confusing and messy, and if every player is going to want customised plans every time they get a new contract that has the potential to become tedious too.

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39 minuti fa, gunner86 ha scritto:

The thing that worries me is the Playing time mechanics, it looks like it has the potential to get really quite confusing and messy, and if every player is going to want customised plans every time they get a new contract that has the potential to become tedious too.

I think this was mainly done to battle two things:

1- to avoid confusion around player discontent - now you will know exactly how much you need to play the player in order to keep him content (and for years in advance).

2 - hopefully, to make better squad management on the AI part as AI will, hopefully, be more informed on what is the playing time structure within the squad. hopefully-

 

the downside, as you say,might be tedious, but I am sure you will be able to negotiate main contract parts while leaving the rest to your staff (if you dare :D )

 

Edited by MBarbaric
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1 minute ago, MBarbaric said:

2 - hopefully, to make better squad management on the AI part as AI will, hopefully, be more informed on what is the playing time structure within the squad. hopefully-

Hadn't thought of that, but fingers crossed it helps

2 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

the downside, as you say,might be tedious, but I am sure you will be able to negotiate main contract parts while leaving the rest to your staff (if you dare :D )

If anything, that scares me more haha :D

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2 минуты назад, Double0Seven сказал:

Changes look great and positive.

More in depth managing and better graphics for those that care. What more do you want? Perhaps this is the year the forums wont be filled with complaints.

Nah, don't think so. People have been asking to do something with stale press conferences and flawed interaction for a long time. Since this is not the year (though more news might be on the way), this topics will keep on comoing.

Oh and don't forget "ME is flawed, cause I can't score at all"

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For a change, I'm quite happy with what I've seen so far! :eek:

 

1. Club vision has the potential to finally solve the managerial merry-go-round (for AI ones) and the general staleness of the P1 experience. So far, unless you really really really suck, you can stay at the same club forever as long as you meet the minimum goals for competitions (which isn't that hard after a couple of seasons). Hopefully more criteria and different long-term plans may also mean even the most successful run will eventually come to an end due to the club wanting something different. Or, at some top clubs, if the board or the fans aren't happy with the playing style regardless of its success.

2. Development Centre is also a step in the right direction. Gone is the anticipated and dreaded Intake Day you can reload time and again til you get something decent. Being able to track, and hopefully INFLUENCE, the Youth Candidates is surely an interesting change of scenario. So far, the only screenshot doesn't exactly scream "you're in control", so I'm afraid it'll still be down to the HoYD's preferences and good old RNG, but still better than the current one-day lottery.
Hopefully there's more to come and the players' development/progress will feel more organic and less robotic

3. Playing Time Pathway is another very promising improvement. Clearer plans for every player will hopefully stop the current bouts of random unhappiness due to "lack of playing time" and will also help establish internal hierarchies. It'd benefit AI with more balanced signings and better strategic choices in terms of contract offers/renewals etc.

4. Backroom staff looks a bit meh at the moment. The only interesting part is the "click on the square" info, but I'm afraid in the big picture it won't solve much unless the I/O between TC and ME won't get a dramatic overhaul. Sadly the awful Green Circles are still there :(

5. Graphics. Nothing to write home about here... The player's model looks better and so does the grass texture. Fingers crossed for the newgens' faces...

So far, so good... it's been quite an interesting and promising first batch of new features. I may even think about pre-ordering...

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I think for me none of these improvements are major? That's not me complaining (I'm not one of them) but I don't see anything major here that really stands out. I did feel after last year where in fairness we got plenty of big improvements, that we'd get not too much this year and I've been proven right really. I'll still buy it and get endless fun and enjoyment out of the game, but its a meh for me. But in fairness until we actually play the game you can't really write it off

Edited by Chris21
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Quote

This is why SI are in a no-win situation with some FMers.

If Miles announces, "This year, we've focussed on making thousands of tweaks to the match engine to make it run better than ever", a lot of people will complain about the lack of new features and say, "It's basically FM18.5."

If Miles doesn't announce that, and instead unveils a raft of shiny new features, a lot of people will complain that the match engine was untouched and say, "It's basically FM18.5."

I posted that in another thread a year ago, but it still holds true today. I'd be very interested to know what exactly those people complaining about a 'lack of new features' were expecting, or at least hoping for.

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On 18/09/2019 at 17:57, Novem9 said:

Well check colours of kit in wallpaper of FM20 ;) Already then it was clear.
Also Miles said in last year before SI chooce purple colour it was professional research of designers or something like this. In this way no reason to change colour every year :)  

Btw personally I enjoy purple skin, first official skin where I stopped to download other from workshop/fmscout. Really like this :thup:

I'd love to know what professional designers they consulted with, the purple is god awful and is not associated with football in any way. Makes it look like an album cover from the early 90s.

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12 minutes ago, The 92nd Fish said:

I'd love to know what professional designers they consulted with, the purple is god awful and is not associated with football in any way. Makes it look like an album cover from the early 90s.

I'm a fan of the purple. It's kind on the eyes. I hate bright skins. This is a game you can literally spend hours at a time playing. 

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38 minuti fa, The 92nd Fish ha scritto:

is not associated with football in any way

Fiorentina and Anderlecht say hi (also, Valladolid, Toulouse, Austria Vienna, Ujpest, Maribor and many smaller ones I guess)

It has also been used on away/third kits for: Real Madrid, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City.
Not to mention it's also a good pick for GK kits as well...

BTW

Real-winners1.jpg

The most successful club in football won the most prestigious competition wearing a purple kit :D

And anyway, there will be plenty of different skins around in no time, if not already the default light/dark ones available in the game.

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1 ora fa, QWERTYOP ha scritto:

These are the "headline features"? Really?! Lol. "Just give them FM 19.5, lads. People will buy it no matter what".

I'd rather have sensible, functional (and not-bugged) adjustments and improvements to the existing features than new "headline features" that will add little to the game while creating even more potential conflicts and expoits.

So if FM20 ends up being 19.5 with a few much needed tidbits AND the annoying quirks ironed out, I'll be more than happy to buy it.
Much better than it being 20.0.0.1beta with, I dunno, 3D Training Drills, 15 new fancy roles and more awkward and half-baked players interaction

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I just read the bunch of new features announced today. While most of them are nice improvements still FM20 lacks that "something" that would really push me to buy as soon as it comes out.

I know the old rhyme "if it's not broken don't fix it" while I guess that making huge changes is expensive and risky.

Still the game looks a bit stagnating,

I will for sure buy it, but probably not soon and maybe I will wait for after Xmas bargains and if I will grow tired of the current career on FM19.

I know my rant sounds a bit "generic" so I list some of the huge changes that IMHO are really needed for the game to improve and that I would have really liked  to find in any new late version of this game:

1) get rid of CA/PA system and find a more random and fluid system for ability to develop. It's unrealistic, no matter what people say. The proof is that lot of young players need to be have their PA changed at every DB release, despite FM researchers are often very good and sometimes even better than professionals. because the consensus about young players potential changes over time and playing experience.

2) the tactic section is still pretty "raw". Man marking is a joke despite being a very used tactical device in modern football (i.e. Gasperini's Atalanta in serie A). There's also nothing that let us create some defensive and attacking movements. Some are there in the ME but are hidden behind roles, team and player instructions and pure randomness that don't make the game simpler for the newcomer while making a hell for the wannabe tacticians that avidly read blogs and watch youtube videos to get some grips of how things works.

Probably attacking and defensive movements are hard-coded into the ME to make things look realistic and of course they need to be hidden beside a layer of instructions to not being overpowered and to help AI while making it impossibile for the player to develops new ones.

3) set pieces. If the tactic system is raw, set pieces are even worse. I don't think I need to detail things here, they are so much hard-coded that you see sometimes the ME override the few instructions we are able to set.

I don't ask for FIFA graphics or thousands of animations. Sure graphic is nice but I understand the copyright problems to have too much graphic detail while animations are expensive to create.

 

But please please please make Football Manager for managers. Actually it's a lot more Football Director of Football.

Edited by ale1969
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1 hour ago, RBKalle said:

I'd rather have sensible, functional (and not-bugged) adjustments and improvements to the existing features than new "headline features" that will add little to the game while creating even more potential conflicts and expoits.

So if FM20 ends up being 19.5 with a few much needed tidbits AND the annoying quirks ironed out, I'll be more than happy to buy it.
Much better than it being 20.0.0.1beta with, I dunno, 3D Training Drills, 15 new fancy roles and more awkward and half-baked players interaction

Some of it does feel like a 'next stage' in some modules.

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Player development centre is a perfect addition

One of the reasons i love FM is watching my players develop

Having a system where it's easier to watch and manage there development is amazing

Development%20Centre%20-%20Overview_0.jp

Thank you S.I

Edited by kingking
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I've nothing against then new features and if implemented properly they will be a great addition to the game. However, I see no mention of player/team/media interaction improvement. Would that be due to the fact that it's not a new feature therefore it will be improved upon. Furthermore, player ratings; they just don't make sense! A player is having a great game (no assist or goal though) misses a penalty, rating - 5.9! What? It contributes to player development and value regarding reputation. There are many more but I don't have all night.

 

Regarding the Match Engine, despite it being decent in FM 19 there were some glaringly obvious flaws. Again, I know it's not a new feature but it must have been improved upon. Some of the defensive headers I saw were under-9 level! Far too frequently, in fact! Add to that the ridiculous throw-in's, unbearable at times. Again, a decent ME it was, but it can't have stagnated. 

 

I feel these to be improved upon are far more important than new features, amongst other flaws in the game. If all have been implemented, happy days!

Edited by dolph11
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CM4 was THE most rushed, incomplete, bug-ridden, sorry mess of a game in the franchise's 27-year history. I loved that game as a teenager, but when I replayed it in 2013, I saw it for what it was.

That's my opinion, and you are entitled to yours about FM19. I'm sure, though, that many will strongly disagree with your claim that it still needs patching now. Every ME has its quirks, but just because YOU don't like this ME's quirks doesn't mean they need to be 'fixed' before FM20 comes out.

And by the way - that latest patch had nothing to do with the game itself. It simply updated advertising hoardings (presumably in anticipation of FM20) and fixed a rare bug that caused crashes for some users.

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4 hours ago, CFuller said:

I'd be very interested to know what exactly those people complaining about a 'lack of new features' were expecting, or at least hoping for.

I repeat... if you think FM20 'lacks new features' or the franchise is stagnating, please tell us exactly what you were expecting or hoping for.

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3 minuti fa, CFuller ha scritto:

Every ME has its quirks, but just because YOU don't like this ME's quirks doesn't mean they need to be 'fixed' before FM20 comes out.

No no no no and no... :(

We're not talking about "quirks" here, but about a long-lasting trend that hasn't been fixed yet or even mitigated.

Every. Single. Year. we've been having one or two insta-win formations that worked too well almost regardless of the quality of the players and at times in spite of questionable roles/duties/instructions. in FM19 it's plain old flat 4-4-2, in FM18 it was the 4-3-3 "Fishermen", in 17 it was 4-3-2-1 Wide, in 16 it was the strikerless one, before that it was Pep's 4-2-3-1 (both wide and narrow) and 4-4-2 Diamond narrow.
As @coolestrock said, all you need is to find out which "plug and play" tactics works fine, let your team get familiar with it and you're set. It may be by accident (it happens to be your favourite formation, or the one best suited for your players) or it may be a conscious decision because you don't feel like tinkering for weeks with an apparently "straightforward" tactics that, unfortunately, isn't gonna get any better because it doesn't "gel" with the current ME build.
So you either wait and hope for the next patch, or you give up and go for the path of least resistence.

So no, it's not "a few quirks"...

The quirks we may or may not like are players having inconsistent reactions to conversations and problems. Or journalist asking delightfully inconsequent questions.

The execution of the TC/ME interaction being a crapshoot more often than not is a huge flaw and not some minor negligible problem.

We can get excited about all the new features, but it'll be all for nothing if in 6 months we'll be talking about 3-4-3 being the go-to tactic to win easy while others will be banging their head against the wall trying to get a basic 4-4-2 working because, say, wingers just don't stay wide and/or the two strikers are always in eachother's way...

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Just now, coolestrock said:

A new match Engine 

It's funny how anybody who demands a new Match Engine never explains their reasoning with anything more than, "Well... the current ME's just broken, isn't it?"

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8 minuti fa, CFuller ha scritto:

There is NO SUCH THING as an insta-win formation. There never has been.

Oh for Pete's sake!

"Insta-win" is a quick way to say "formation that somehow seems to work much better than others in the current ME build due to specific sets of instructions that compliment whichever aspect of the ME".

Is it a coincidence EVERY FM in recent memory had a go-to tactic most people ended up picking (as default one or as a quick-fix emergency call when they needed/wanted a win)???

Can you really deny this year 4-4-2 was all the rage? And are all the old ones I listed stuff I made up?! Come on... We've all been around enough to remember at least ONE "killer formation" and one specific "ME trend of the year".

What's the point in pretending a 3-5-2 in FM18 was as effective as the infamous 3-strikers formation...

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I mean, insta-win isn't the same thing as saying formation that works better.

But there's never been an actual insta-win formation as such. Because even in such a formation garbage in = garbage out, even with the strikerless back in FM17 (not 16 or 18 as has been suggested)

If you're still needing to get the right combinations of roles and duties in said formation, its not an insta-win, or formation working much better by any means :brock:

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There is no insta-win tactic, that is a fact. Because out of a save,maybe you lose like,2-5 games in total. I already did the test, just grabbing the best squad my team had and using one broken or op tactic and the results were flying. Having a team that could relegate win 3-0 against psg in the first season, in their house with their full team in the field is kinda worry. Deny that this tactics exist is simply put your hands in front of your eyes and pretend you don't see a problem. Obviously, the ME is not perfect, but every single year having a clear better combination of formation and instructions, that works way better than most of the usual tactics, well,that is a problem.

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1 minute ago, coolestrock said:

if you test the tactics as much as people do then you will find a formation that takes advantage of the AI , strikerless was well known , and yes you might have to play around with roles but that was because some of the roles worked better than others , one year every successful tactic tested had inverted wing backs,

there are people who make Tactic testing websites and list the successful ones , one glance and you see that the top ones are the same formation , FM 2019 has two , download one of these and your team can go from a relegation battle at Xmas to being close to a European finish , i know because ive tested tactics for hours as i find it interesting , so to deny any knowledge of power formations is one of the reasons there are powered formations in the game , developers cant keep sticking their fingers in their ears hoping they dont hear these things.

If you're having to find the right roles and duties, then its not an insta win formation. Accuracy in language is pretty key here.

Equally every ME will be flawed, as its impossible to recreate real life. and there will always be people who try to find the meta, because that's how some people want to play. But equally you can't always spend time chasing that. You deal with improving the ME has a whole for both player and AI. I don't care if there is a meta in FM20. I do care if say, wide players are not standing defenders up enough as as opposed to crossing the ball, or if forward players are not recycling enough. Not whether John Smith has got a mad 3-1-2-4 formation that no one would ever use that works. Focus on getting the balance right as a whole

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22 minuti fa, CFuller ha scritto:

It's funny how anybody who demands a new Match Engine never explains their reasoning with anything more than, "Well... the current ME's just broken, isn't it?"

Because, as I said in my comment above, it's just too much hardcoded. You cannot setup defensive and attacking movements, just play with instructions hoping that they'll work the way you think they should.

 

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5 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Diablo. End of conversation.

Jesus, that's a blast from the past. TBF that was CM03/04, and you had to give them the Farrow all the way to the top or it didnt work, But that's as close as you got, and I'm not sure we could compare match engines between the two in anyway

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But when you got the tactic right, the players became irrelevant, the ME couldn't handle the formation. It wasn't just close, the AI got beat every time.

 

And, no by and large I was being stupid but he did say 'There is NO SUCH THING as an insta-win formation. There never has been.'

Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember the days when there were instant win formations.

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5 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

More details in international management because it hasn't changed since 2007. In fact, we've lost more features in International management if anything. Why training doesn't exist in international management I'll never know. Players don't stop training when they go on international duty. I had a World Cup save, but I couldn't reach past the Quarter finals because all my players fitness were between 50-70% as I was unable to train them or rest them, but  the players from other nations were all at 99-100% because AI managers were able to train them I assume, or after a match they automatically went to full fitness. Just ruins the game for me when something like that is easily fixable.

This is one of the few areas in FM where I've been disappointed in recent years. I wouldn't even say it hasn't changed since 2007; I would say it's regressed since 2013.

In FM13, you could speak to your international players at any time to praise/criticise their form, warn them about dropping them if they don't play for their club, etc. Those on-demand chat options aren't available on FM19 or even FM17 - the last version where I could really be bothered with international management.

6 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

Why do my back up players keep demanding game time? The player signed a contract as a back up player. So why is he demanding I play him? I'll play him when I want. If anything, back up players should be requesting loan moves to get game time, why sign a back up contract if they're going to demand game time every 2 months.

A backup player is not someone who only comes onto the pitch in emergencies. He still expects to play at least 25% of the time (that's a very conservative estimate, though, and I'm sure someone will provide more accurate figures).

This misunderstanding of what a backup player expects in terms of gametime is why I welcome these changes to squad statuses - if they are even called squad statuses anymore.

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The most important I can see in these features - SI dont scare and dont lazy to improve old mechanics.

19.5? Really? :lol: 

I never will play in previous FMs because even only these new features it's a new page in management. Like after FM18 hierarchy it was boring to play in FM17 for me, and after new trainings/mentoring of FM19 it started to boring play FM18.

But I'm back for old mechanics. SI change cases which worked stable by years. All for deep management and better environment. Very optimistic about FM20 and next games in this way :thup: stagnation? Compare mechanics for last 3 years with 5 years before. FM is developing and changes step by step

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@Stewart1111 almost all issues you wrote WIP. Did you share your pkms for SI? Did you write your wishes in wishlist?

I did. Almost all my issues were fixed/improved in FM19 already or focused for FM20.

I shared stupid AI decisions in management and SI investigate them. I shared ME issues and SI fix them or wrote to list.

Some users do the same. And I don't see their critics there ;)

I wrote about club vision for example. I don't know SI thought to create this thing before, but now its in game already. I wrote about some other things and SI gave me feedback.

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Cmon, these are some features. Lets give Miles benefit of the doubt and see what are incoming from those forum wishlist features. Those might be some small but very good imporvments. And I like that he will spread them out some in days, this will give time discuss and see progressivly these. ( Already can see that probably the newgen news will be coming in today, so big hopes for it.)

Also this purpel color. I think this is chosen also as it is more neutral to the eye for most people. But it is easily changable in menus and skins so pointless to bi*** on this.

Edited by saihtam
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Will International team management be better replicated with realistic appointments, immigration rules applying to staff and yourself? How about anthems when they line up. Salaried contracts for managers, training for squads, preparation tasks for long haul away matches, results impacting on the whole nations morale, proper rivalries

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8 ore fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

I mean, insta-win isn't the same thing as saying formation that works better.

Knap's formations work much better than others...

And looking at what people post on FB groups, there are at least a couple of borderline game-breaking tactics around. They may be the result of weeks/months of exploit-hunting (especially if they include infamously broken set-pieces routines) and not be just stuff random players stumbled across (like last year's 3 Strikers), but they DO exist.

8 ore fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

But there's never been an actual insta-win formation as such. Because even in such a formation garbage in = garbage out, even with the strikerless back in FM17 (not 16 or 18 as has been suggested)

Others have already brought the infamous Diablo one from CM03-04... Ages ago, yes, but nonetheless...

8 ore fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

If you're still needing to get the right combinations of roles and duties in said formation, its not an insta-win, or formation working much better by any means :brock:

Again, the ME simply doesn't handle some positions/roles as well as others.

So it's much easier to get the right (or a decent enough) combination of roles for a flat 4-4-2 than for a 3-4-3 due to 3-man defending being implemented rather poorly..

And BTW I'm not even talking about "I want this formation to win me games 4-0 week in and week out"! I'm simply stating that depending on which kind of football we're trying to create, it can become a long, frustrating and unrewarding experience because the ME simply works better with some formations and styles. And good luck if you decide to give a go to one of the "sorry, can't do it" styles...

P.S. I'm not saying it's impossible (actually on the Tactics forum I've seen a decent variety of formations and styles), but that it takes way too long to get something "unfavoured" by the ME to work, while other ideas require so much less effort.
So yes, everything can work in the end, especially if you spice it up with a bit of "cheating". However, a basic degree of tactical reliability shouldn't require hours of painstaking fine-tuning to get a straightforward hoofball to work.

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The best way to play the game is don’t go online looking for information!

If you want it to be a challenge discover your own tactics. There will always be people that find a tactic/formation that is OP for the ME AI. It’s practically impossible i’d wager for there not to be an ‘exploit’.

The only way to combat it is DO NOT GO LOOKING FOR IT.

I stopped looking at wonderkid lists last year, as with tactics, and it makes playing the game so much more rewarding.

There will always be tactics that work better than others (as in reality) 442 this year is very strong in fm19. Fm20 will have another formation that is very strong. As long as you discover it for yourself and don’t just download a P&P tactic I don’t see the problem.

Edited by sidslayer
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9 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

The best way to play the game is don’t go online looking for information!

If you want it to be a challenge discover your own tactics. There will always be people that find a tactic/formation that is OP for the ME AI. It’s practically impossible i’d wager for there not to be an ‘exploit’.

The only way to combat it is DO NOT GO LOOKING FOR IT.

I stopped looking at wonderkid lists last year, as with tactics, and it makes playing the game so much more rewarding.

There will always be tactics that work better than others (as in reality) 442 this year is very strong in fm19. Fm20 will have another formation that is very strong. As long as you discover it for yourself and don’t just download a P&P tactic I don’t see the problem.

To be honest, put more simply, the best way to enjoy the game is probably just to never visit any sort of site like this.  Ever.

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1 час назад, forameuss сказал:

To be honest, put more simply, the best way to enjoy the game is probably just to never visit any sort of site like this.  Ever.

Eh, I got tons of useful tactical advice when I couldn't even build my team right. Reading complints for the sake of complaining is another thing tho

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