Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[Double0Seven]

11 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Dig deeper. You can find what you're looking for. Fm19 has huge ME and AI tactics issues, everyone knows that. Even mods say that and it doesn't happen too often. 

Everyone knows that? Why do you talk like you represent everyone? If the issues were that huge FM19 wouldnt have that much players playing concurrently. We would have complaints everywhere, from steam, reddit, this forum, youtube to reviewers. 

As always, complainers are a vocal minority. Those that are positive arent on these forums to complain, they actually play the game. If the game was so broken and has 'huge' issues, nobody would be playing it. 

Once again, as always these threads and some bug reports are never detailed enough and you cant draw conclusions from a few outliers. I dont say its perfect, I just say people dont back up their arguments enough. 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Double0Seven

[CFuller]

@Double0Seven makes some very good points. SI appreciate any constructive feedback, but many of the negative comments in this thread have been more destructive than anything.

Personally, I am sick to the back teeth of certain self-centred, self-entitled users crying that the game is "broken" or "unplayable" and not backing them up. Whenever anybody challenges them for proof, they get defensive and just say, "I don't need to give proof. Look in the bugs forums, there's your proof."

There have been a couple of times during FM19's life cycle when I have stuck up for SI and pointed out that a "broken" game mechanic might not be "broken", and I have been called a "fanboy" in response. A few days ago, in a similar incident to Mitja calling D0S a "secret agent", I posted in the bugs forum to say that regularly being 'FMed' might be a tactical issue rather than a game bug - and I was asked if I worked for SI.

This assumption by some users that the game is "broken", and that anyone who defends it is a "fanboy" or a SI lapdog needs to STOP. We are just pointing out why something might not be "broken", and we get abused for it.

There've been several instances in this thread where mods have stepped in when arguments have got out of hand, and - in extreme cases - taken disciplinary action. That still hasn't worked with certain users. I honestly think this thread should just be closed (and a new one started up), and that mods should take stricter action against disruptive repeat offenders.

I have been a member of the SI community since 2008 (and a regular poster since 2013), and I am ashamed at what it has become. Unless things take a dramatic turn for the better, this will - in all likelihood - be my final post. (And should this post be deleted, then you can pretty much guarantee that I will never return.)

Good day.

Edited May 1, 2019 by CFuller

[herne79]

23 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Dig deeper. You can find what you're looking for. Fm19 has huge ME and AI tactics issues, everyone knows that. Even mods say that and it doesn't happen too often. 

Pretty interested in you providing a link to a post from a Mod which states the ME and AI tactics have "huge" issues.  There are plenty of cases of Mods saying things can be improved but "huge" issues?  Good luck with that.

Anyway, as I and others have said before in this thread, this thread is supposed to be about constructive feedback.  Rhetoric and hyperbole ("even Mods say that" ) is, as @CFuller rightly points out, destructive.

If you can't have a civilised conversation with someone who happens to share a different opinion, then don't bother.  I'm sick and tired of it too.  Enough warnings have been left, it's probably about time we followed up on them.

[russell9]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

this will - in all likelihood - be my final post.

Walk the talk. Fingers crossed...

[herne79]

14 minutes ago, russell9 said:

Walk the talk. Fingers crossed...

 

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

Enough warnings have been left, it's probably about time we followed up on them.

You know those "destructive posts" and all those warnings mentioned above...?  Have some time off.

[BigV]

I think people are just trying to use others as examples, I myself have done it and im sure it's "easier" to do so. An example would be the issue of long shots when it first arose, they posted quite a lot in the bug forums and on here and I thought that was enough to get the SI to see things "our" way. But the SI still insisted on sending the pkm's which I eventually did but I can see why people wouldn't when there's enough evidence to suggest their was. Personally It took me around 20 minutes for each PKM to be sent through, no idea why but i still did it after learning they wanted more. I don't know how the SI work or how they use the coding to sort bugs out but as players we want it to be solved asap and I got the gauge that people were disappointing (forums- benefit of the doubt as it's usually negative/constructive than positive as bugs are the main points). I think the Christmas update helped but people found newer problems- set pieces where people were unhappy or that's the feeling I got when I was active during that time on these forums. 

Although the abuse and stuff is unacceptable and should be banned/warned no excuse for that, those that don't but point out flaws and exaggerate slightly on the bugs still seem to be told off but rightly so because the thread is specific. 

(this is going to sound bad and maybe over the line) Personally at the start of 19.1 I was disappointing, the very feel of FM i got wasn't the same as old but a part of me knew it was going to be different (exclude the new features because they're brilliant imo) but at the same time I was thinking "Can't the SI see it's different and riddled with unplayable bugs" and through the months I questioned their abilities but never actually said it on the forums as it would be rude to especially since they work hard and probably are trying to change it in the background. And that's where I think the problem lies, the feedback we get from the SI are minimal and not specific enough to help us understand how it'll be fixed or any updates of trying to. I feel the public beta forum was a massive plus to that because the SI were great on there and not many people were acting up or speaking out of place. Im not saying it should happen but it would be helpful if there was updates on things that the SI looked at and how it's effected the game from their view so comparisons can be made and see what needs to be done for it to work. 

To the earlier post of 17 being "superior" to 19 I'm just going to say this, the ME is fluid and much more realistic and you can see that so there's not much to explain however each fm has its Ups and Downs. So comparing them both is decent feedback because if one is better than the other in someway it could help the next game or even the next patch (not that there will be one) to be improved. But it does need to be backed up with statistics and screenshots unless you can see the clear difference of things you can't really prove by stats like the ME/graphical 3D uses. 

[Double0Seven]

On 01/05/2019 at 14:06, BigV said:

I think people are just trying to use others as examples, I myself have done it and im sure it's "easier" to do so. An example would be the issue of long shots when it first arose, they posted quite a lot in the bug forums and on here and I thought that was enough to get the SI to see things "our" way. But the SI still insisted on sending the pkm's which I eventually did but I can see why people wouldn't when there's enough evidence to suggest their was. Personally It took me around 20 minutes for each PKM to be sent through, no idea why but i still did it after learning they wanted more. I don't know how the SI work or how they use the coding to sort bugs out but as players we want it to be solved asap and I got the gauge that people were disappointing (forums- benefit of the doubt as it's usually negative/constructive than positive as bugs are the main points). I think the Christmas update helped but people found newer problems- set pieces where people were unhappy or that's the feeling I got when I was active during that time on these forums. 

Although the abuse and stuff is unacceptable and should be banned/warned no excuse for that, those that don't but point out flaws and exaggerate slightly on the bugs still seem to be told off but rightly so because the thread is specific. 

(this is going to sound bad and maybe over the line) Personally at the start of 19.1 I was disappointing, the very feel of FM i got wasn't the same as old but a part of me knew it was going to be different (exclude the new features because they're brilliant imo) but at the same time I was thinking "Can't the SI see it's different and riddled with unplayable bugs" and through the months I questioned their abilities but never actually said it on the forums as it would be rude to especially since they work hard and probably are trying to change it in the background. And that's where I think the problem lies, the feedback we get from the SI are minimal and not specific enough to help us understand how it'll be fixed or any updates of trying to. I feel the public beta forum was a massive plus to that because the SI were great on there and not many people were acting up or speaking out of place. Im not saying it should happen but it would be helpful if there was updates on things that the SI looked at and how it's effected the game from their view so comparisons can be made and see what needs to be done for it to work. 

To the earlier post of 17 being "superior" to 19 I'm just going to say this, the ME is fluid and much more realistic and you can see that so there's not much to explain however each fm has its Ups and Downs. So comparing them both is decent feedback because if one is better than the other in someway it could help the next game or even the next patch (not that there will be one) to be improved. But it does need to be backed up with statistics and screenshots unless you can see the clear difference of things you can't really prove by stats like the ME/graphical 3D uses. 

I play many other games. Feedback from the game developer is already something. Ever played csgo? Just today this happend.

1. Valve acknowledge a broken exploit that caused players to obtain game breaking bugs and lower their game score (used for matchmaking). 

2. They fix this exploit and break another game mechanic.

3. They fix this game mechanic and break yet another game mechanic.

Valve have a beta server for csgo, but barely use it and they barely ever communicate anything to players. They will push a game changing update in the middle of the biggest csgo prizepool tournament, without rollback, forcing the update and not say a single thing.

People seriously dont understand how good SI are in comparison to other game makers. Imagine SI breaking a ME part today in an update and just not caring. Thats what happened in csgo today. It will be fixed eventually, but it seems like Valve dont test anything. 

As for fixing bugs, as a programmer, I can tell you its not always as easy as you think it is. You can spend a whole week with a team fixing a certain problem, only for new problems to come up and problems only happening on certain setups. FM most likely has million lines of code and a lot of mechanics that interact with each other. This is not something you easily check, fix, test and push out. 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by IPS Temp Admin

[BigV]

36 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I play many other games. Feedback from the game developer is already something. Ever played csgo? Just today this happend.

1. Valve acknowledge a broken exploit that caused players to obtain game breaking bugs and lower their game score (used for matchmaking). 

2. They fix this exploit and break another game mechanic.

3. They fix this game mechanic and break yet another game mechanic.

Valve have a beta server for csgo, but barely use it and they barely ever communicate anything to players. They will push a game changing update in the middle of the biggest csgo prizepool tournament, without rollback, forcing the update and not say a single thing.

People seriously dont understand how good SI are in comparison to other game makers. Imagine SI breaking a ME part today in an update and just not caring. Thats what happened in csgo today. It will be fixed eventually, but it seems like Valve dont test anything. 

As for fixing bugs, as a programmer, I can tell you its not always as easy as you think it is. You can spend a whole week with a team fixing a certain problem, only for new problems to come up and problems only happening on certain setups. FM most likely has million lines of code and a lot of mechanics that interact with each other. This is not something you easily check, fix, test and push out. 

 

Although I see what you're saying, comparing other developers to this is irrelevant. If anything your first few points is why the SI should strive to be better- not that don't, just saying. Although the SI standards are high as you say they could still improve, always room for improving. 

As for your last point i'll have to take your word on that. I do remember one of the members or moderators saying that 1 thing can open up different areas. But if they work on the next version surely there'd be a chance of low amount of error or at least prioritise what they think us fans want collectively/overall? 

[alian62]

On 14/04/2019 at 18:24, Cadoni said:

SI has posted jobs for UI/UX and Animation Programmer.

What will be a dream for Football Manager? Having graphics and animation like ANNO 1800.
UI/UX and animation of that game (ANNO 1800) is outstanding.
I really hope FM20 will bring drastic changes.

They work 3 years in advance so if they are advertising now then you wont see it for at least 3 years .

[ExeR]

On 01/05/2019 at 16:52, Double0Seven said:

Once again, as always these threads and some bug reports are never detailed enough and you cant draw conclusions from a few outliers. I dont say its perfect, I just say people dont back up their arguments enough. 

On 01/05/2019 at 17:11, herne79 said:

If you can't have a civilised conversation with someone who happens to share a different opinion, then don't bother.  I'm sick and tired of it too.  Enough warnings have been left, it's probably about time we followed up on them.

On 01/05/2019 at 16:59, CFuller said:

Personally, I am sick to the back teeth of certain self-centred, self-entitled users crying that the game is "broken" or "unplayable" and not backing them up. Whenever anybody challenges them for proof, they get defensive and just say, "I don't need to give proof. Look in the bugs forums, there's your proof."

But when it IS broken, then what? Should I explain to every rando that yes indeed I tested what I claimed, I went from 2018 to 2019(even waited for last patch) and forward passes for same role stopped functioning properly. Should I, as someone who wrote pages of feedback, translated and explained freaking 100+ page guides to local community and faced same BS year after year after year, keep my cool and just explain it in detail every single time? How much wasted time is enough, how many versions that pretended not to be beta bought is enough, how many unanswered post and "5 year too late implementations" of suggestions is enough? And all for what, so that Miles can produce some sort of twitter response, that's strikingly similar to yours? It's especially hillarious to read mod talk about it, when you have ability to fix situation or organize complaint structure so that people won't repeat themselves about same topics and just upvote informative/comprehensive posts written before. 

Maybe one time SI answers to "informative" posters, and we don't have to write "it's all so tiresome" posts. 

Maybe one time SI tests if Enganche and other roles work. Just take Messi with no Accel to a second tier league, how hard is that? Surely going from godlike 8+ to below 7 with 10 barely forward passes for "risky creator" role would be striking difference.

Maybe one time set pieces get tested. Again, very simple, you take maxed out guy with long flat throw and see how he does with 6 targets all told to go forward. Delap did well with worse, real prototype of player I used did well with not maxed long throws, Midtjylland did well. Surely this supercharged example works well in "realistic football simulation" trademark? Nah, it does nothing, it gets triggered in small zone, players don't follow instructions, ball never reaches even as far as penalty spot. 50 matches 0 goal scoring moments. 

It goes on and on. Most of these examples are blatant, and it's obvious 0 tests were done. You can notice all these problems on first try. Simplest best/worst conditions test fixes ALL of that and most of other problems. You can't miss it, you can't find conditions for it to fail. There's only one explanation to it - it wasn't done. Year after year, same old story. In last version I even found a "mistake" in RPM's important attributes with teamwork not being listed, wrote it to guide text with screenshot and what do you know? It's back to important again. Would be a fascinating story to know how most "teamplaying" role got that attribute lost.

So should evil users stop saying it's broken and getting fed up about recurring problems, or should you stop pretending that SI is this angel of a dev, who somehow stumbled into toxic ultras of a fanbase? Maybe when Raumdeuter stops crossing ASAP and play as he supposed to according to his prototype player, role, team instructions, personal instructions (where crossing is not even available to control), we can talk about manners and being constructive. Because we're at that time of year again, when 2019 is past, and 2020 with it's own personal garden of problems (including broken roles) is on the horizone. And when it's released, I should wait for last patch? Because that always worked in the past? Keep digging that sand, head is not deep enough.

 

 

[masno]

22 horas atrás, Double0Seven disse:

I play many other games. Feedback from the game developer is already something. Ever played csgo? Just today this happend.

1. Valve acknowledge a broken exploit that caused players to obtain game breaking bugs and lower their game score (used for matchmaking). 

2. They fix this exploit and break another game mechanic.

3. They fix this game mechanic and break yet another game mechanic.

Valve have a beta server for csgo, but barely use it and they barely ever communicate anything to players. They will push a game changing update in the middle of the biggest csgo prizepool tournament, without rollback, forcing the update and not say a single thing.

People seriously dont understand how good SI are in comparison to other game makers. Imagine SI breaking a ME part today in an update and just not caring. Thats what happened in csgo today. It will be fixed eventually, but it seems like Valve dont test anything. 

As for fixing bugs, as a programmer, I can tell you its not always as easy as you think it is. You can spend a whole week with a team fixing a certain problem, only for new problems to come up and problems only happening on certain setups. FM most likely has million lines of code and a lot of mechanics that interact with each other. This is not something you easily check, fix, test and push out. 

 

But the problem is that SI sometimes fails to fix every problem in a single version, and simple says "we are working on the next FM,sorry", example of that was the 18 ME, 3 strikers were a problem and they let it in the game. If you didn't got back to other FM or decided to buy the new version, you will be stuck with a unfinished product, which is horrible and already happened before in this community.

[herne79]

6 minutes ago, ExeR said:

So should evil users stop saying it's broken and getting fed up about recurring problems, or should you stop pretending that SI is this angel of a dev, who somehow stumbled into toxic ultras of a fanbase?

The issue isn't "evil users" getting frustrated and fed up.  The issue is when people start making things personal which can rapidly descend into abuse.  Sometimes people just want to vent about the game, that's ok.  The preference is always for constructive feedback of course, but we know people sometimes just want to let off a bit of steam.  Just don't make personal attacks if that happens.  "Fanboy", "you just defend the game", "you're a *****", "SI don't have a clue what they do" is where the line gets crossed.

And yes I agree, feedback from SI as well can always be improved.

[ExeR]

3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

And yes I agree, feedback from SI as well can always be improved.

But this is the key. Last patch "supposed" to be point of no return, realease version are already "stable beta" like. Constructive suggestions after last patch are between rock and a hard place. You can't have stuff that should be fixed in "alfa" making it's way to march, that's what bringing level of discussion down. That or multiyear recurring problems. And that "0 test &0 replies after last patch" attitude doesn't help.

I would gladly help with little problems of shapeshifting roles like Mezzala functioning in tactic based on particular width/tactical style. But instead you can't do that, because it's neighbour roles in formation don't work. Not Trq gets 8+ avg and Enganche only 7.8, but properly not working. You can't even test what you can possibly contribute as an suggestion/improvement, because core concept fails. That becomes a two way street not just in attitude, but also in possibilities. If SI wants suggestion/critique to be better, than they should make sure they do their part. If not, there's no way it doesn't end up being toilet wall.

That's why I didn't get your and other posters criticism. Even structurally, this topic can be much more productive if there were less posts with more attention to them. "Ask me" type format, with flood in separate topic.

[Novem9]

7 минут назад, ExeR сказал:

I would gladly help with little problems of shapeshifting roles like Mezzala functioning in tactic based on particular width/tactical style.

You can share few pkm with description to SI if you have a time and wish to do it. For example few Mezzala decisions in ME and your opinion how he can be improved

I shared a lot of pkms with screenshots, video and descriptions concerning striker moves issue in 19.1 and I can see improves in new patches. Of course, I want bigger updates in some cases/issues, but ALL my ME issues were reviewed and it was nice feeling when I play game in 19.3 and see how list of my prorosed cases happen in display   

[Double0Seven]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ExeR said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ExeR said:

But when it IS broken, then what? Should I explain to every rando that yes indeed I tested what I claimed

 

 

You completely didnt read my post. How can you go over such a rant when you didnt even bother reading my post? 

Also if you think it is broken. Show me your test. Give them right now. If it is indeed so broken as you claim, everyone here will agree with you. Once again, no outliers, but multiple seasons in multiple leagues of the problems you think are a problem.

Less complaining, more proofs pls. 

I will already give you a hint, if things you claim are so broken we wouldnt have thousands of players and even professional players play this game. Or are you going to tell me that profesional players dont understand the game and what they see? 

Constructive criticism is a thing and people like you are completely ignoring it. Also personally attacking me as an argument. I know some people on these forums are young, but stuff like this completely gives it away.  

Edited May 2, 2019 by Double0Seven

[ExeR]

53 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Also if you think it is broken. Show me your test. Give them right now. If it is indeed so broken as you claim, everyone here will agree with you. Once again, no outliers, but multiple seasons in multiple leagues of the problems you think are a problem.

Less complaining, more proofs pls. 

Just so that you your head won't blow from importance, here you go Mr. Biggest Bugman:

Boss, next time you gonna try to freeroll people on wasting free time on proving things, while you use solid arguments of real footballers playing game, where you can win EPL with 120/130 PA, try to take some responsibility. You'll seem so much cooler like that.

Now, be a good friend to all the true fans and shut up haters like me. Give us all a tactic for latest patch, where Enganche performs well. You can use EPL starter PA/talent and play in 2nd tier league. Just this one simple task in an unbroken master piece, should be easy enough. Surely won't take as much of your time as you require from others. 

Or, perhaps, you can show something like this https://fmfan.ru/topic/211-guidetofm-тактический-гайд/ FM testing related that you've done, so we all know you don't pull stuff out of your ass, as you imply with me. More proofs, boss.

[Double0Seven]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

16 minutes ago, ExeR said:

Just so that you your head won't blow from importance, here you go Mr. Biggest Bugman:

Boss, next time you gonna try to freeroll people on wasting free time on proving things, while you use solid arguments of real footballers playing game, where you can win EPL with 120/130 PA, try to take some responsibility. You'll seem so much cooler like that.

Now, be a good friend to all the true fans and shut up haters like me. Give us all a tactic for latest patch, where Enganche performs well. You can use EPL starter PA/talent and play in 2nd tier league. Just this one simple task in an unbroken master piece, should be easy enough. Surely won't take as much of your time as you require from others. 

Or, perhaps, you can show something like this https://fmfan.ru/topic/211-guidetofm-тактический-гайд/ FM testing related that you've done, so we all know you don't pull stuff out of your ass, as you imply with me. More proofs, boss.

Most of the things you show I cannot read nor can Google translate give me a complete picture with proper context. 

Putting in effort to show something is different from putting in the correct effort. 

Once again personal attacks and you not understanding what I said. Putting the burden of proof on me while you are the one with the claims as well. There is nothing to argue to begin with if you start like that. 

If you dont like the game, provide constructive criticism that we can understand or dont buy the game. As simple as that. Coming to the forums to complain and act like SI put out a beta product every year is just childish nonsense and personally insulting/mocking/attacking other forum members is no go. 

[ExeR]

19 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Most of the things you show I cannot read nor can Google translate give me a complete picture with proper context. 

Putting in effort to show something is different from putting in the correct effort. 

You just talked... I mean ordered to show you proofs.  I did. There're pictures there, you can see seasons being played, multiple games, multiple tactics, in-depth tactical analysis & theory used for all that. Since you escaped request by language dodging, there's guidetofm/guidetofootball in English. They're not good enough either? You're quality expert now that "people pulling stuff out of their behinds" argument failed? As expected.

 

19 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Once again personal attacks and you not understanding what I said. Putting the burden of proof on me while you are the one with the claims as well. There is nothing to argue to begin with if you start like that. 

Boss I don't understand, I owe  you quality proofs and less talking or we're all friends now? I'm confused.

 

19 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

If you dont like the game, provide constructive criticism that we can understand or dont buy the game. As simple as that. Coming to the forums to complain and act like SI put out a beta product every year is just childish nonsense and personally insulting/mocking/attacking other forum members is no go. 

I provide constructive suggestions, pages of it, and it gets implemented. Later than I hoped for, but it happens. So thanks for explaining how life works. Allow me to disagree with what's childish and beta (we're all respecting each other opinions, right?). And I'm glad you found kindness in your heart to keep conversation adult. Now, once again so it won't be ignored, where can we find your contributions to hard job of FM testing (so that we have quality proofs ready at first request). And more importantly, where's that working Enganche tactic.  I'm so insulting in my conviction that it doesn't exist (especially with quality proofs), that I'm childishly itching to try it out and stop mocking SI for things they haven't done. Can you save me, Mr, Bond?

Edited May 2, 2019 by ExeR

[Double0Seven]

8 minutes ago, ExeR said:

You just talked... I mean ordered to show you proofs.  I did. There're pictures there, you can see seasons being played, multiple games, multiple tactics, in-depth tactical analysis & theory used for all that. Since you escaped request by language dodging, there's guidetofm/guidetofootball in English. They're not good enough either? You're quality expert now that "people pulling stuff out of their behinds" argument failed? As expected.

 

Boss I don't understand, I owe  you quality proofs and less talking or we're all friends now? I'm confused.

 

I provide constructive suggestions, pages of it, and it gets implemented. Later than I hoped for, but it happens. So thanks for explaining how life works. Allow me to disagree with what's childish and beta (we're all respecting each other opinions, right?). And I'm glad you found kindness in your heart to keep conversation adult. Now, once again so it won't be ignored, where can we find your contributions to hard job of FM testing (so that we have quality proofs ready at first request). And more importantly, where's that working Enganche tactic.  I'm so insulting in my conviction that it doesn't exist (especially with quality proofs), that I'm childishly itching to try it out and stop mocking SI for things they haven't done. Can you save me, Mr, Bond?

Once again, you fail to understand what I am saying. I am not the one with claims, that is you. Yet you keep bringing up that I have to prove stuff, but I have not done a single claim about the ME, you can scroll up and read that. 

The continuation of mocking me and throwing names on me just shows to me that you are frustrated and not willing to discuss this properly. Come back when you are calm. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Double0Seven

[Hovis Dexter]

I don’t think that I understand any of the last few posts.

[herne79]

Please treat each other with respect.  It makes such a difference.

[Amarante]

@herne79

How do you even do it? I would go mad dealing with all these people. 

[Earnie is God!]

7 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I don’t think that I understand any of the last few posts.

I get some of it but not all. What annoys me is that half of DoubleOSeven's quotes are just big blank spaces.
Is that just me?

[herne79]

3 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

Is that just me?

It's a forum issue and has been reported.  It was fixed but has apparently started again.

[orlyzao]

On 01/05/2019 at 20:22, Double0Seven said:

I play many other games. Feedback from the game developer is already something. Ever played csgo? Just today this happend.

1. Valve acknowledge a broken exploit that caused players to obtain game breaking bugs and lower their game score (used for matchmaking). 

2. They fix this exploit and break another game mechanic.

3. They fix this game mechanic and break yet another game mechanic.

Valve have a beta server for csgo, but barely use it and they barely ever communicate anything to players. They will push a game changing update in the middle of the biggest csgo prizepool tournament, without rollback, forcing the update and not say a single thing.

People seriously dont understand how good SI are in comparison to other game makers. Imagine SI breaking a ME part today in an update and just not caring. Thats what happened in csgo today. It will be fixed eventually, but it seems like Valve dont test anything. 

As for fixing bugs, as a programmer, I can tell you its not always as easy as you think it is. You can spend a whole week with a team fixing a certain problem, only for new problems to come up and problems only happening on certain setups. FM most likely has million lines of code and a lot of mechanics that interact with each other. This is not something you easily check, fix, test and push out. 

 

This is not true though. If an update breaks the game it's always possible to rollback/downgrade the game version. Even right now I can just downgrade my own game and play an older version. See:

That's what lan tournaments will do if something messes up the game.

[fosho]

I would love the option to hide, or remove the role suitability circles in the next FM. They seem to ignore the player description and traits anyway. I see players with perfect traits for AMR, or AML and the role suitability circles is full green on the opposite wing or even AMC in some cases even though one player is described as an elite winger.  it seems to go against where they play in real life in some cases. Giving us more options would be a great. I'd like to play without the suitability circles, and/or the star ratings for example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiger666]

6 hours ago, fosho said:

I would love the option to hide, or remove the role suitability circles in the next FM. They seem to ignore the player description and traits anyway. I see players with perfect traits for AMR, or AML and the role suitability circles is full green on the opposite wing or even AMC in some cases even though one player is described as an elite winger.  it seems to go against where they play in real life in some cases. Giving us more options would be a great. I'd like to play without the suitability circles, and/or the star ratings for example.

You can if you click these:

[Hovis Dexter]

It occurs to me that sometimes it can be good to have an unhappy player. I’m playing in Spain and one of my B team midfielders is unhappy because I’ve refused his request for more first team opportunities. Suddenly, virtually everybody in the first team who plays, or can play in the midfield, is supportive of me and nobody is on his side 😁.

[BigV]

2 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

It occurs to me that sometimes it can be good to have an unhappy player. I’m playing in Spain and one of my B team midfielders is unhappy because I’ve refused his request for more first team opportunities. Suddenly, virtually everybody in the first team who plays, or can play in the midfield, is supportive of me and nobody is on his side 😁.

Doesn't quite work if it's the opposite. They all start crying about how you should let him leave and then you have no choice to either buckle under pressure to sell him or get those that are against you low on morale making bad games and being poor in training. Don't think it's realistic for a player to want to sell their own teammate unless they don't like each other which they do because of squad harmony. 

[Hovis Dexter]

21 minutes ago, BigV said:

Doesn't quite work if it's the opposite. They all start crying about how you should let him leave and then you have no choice to either buckle under pressure to sell him or get those that are against you low on morale making bad games and being poor in training. Don't think it's realistic for a player to want to sell their own teammate unless they don't like each other which they do because of squad harmony. 

Absolutely, you have to pick your battles.

[fosho]

6 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

You can if you click these:

Thanks for the tip. I did know about that one, but it is more an issue for me when I want to sign players as the circles seem to ignore traits or where they play in real life. Players described as elite wingers with traits for cutting in from the wing and having only full green role  suitability for AMC just seems odd to me. 

 

 

[BigV]

46 minutes ago, fosho said:

Thanks for the tip. I did know about that one, but it is more an issue for me when I want to sign players as the circles seem to ignore traits or where they play in real life. Players described as elite wingers with traits for cutting in from the wing and having only full green role  suitability for AMC just seems odd to me. 

 

 

It's been an FM thing for some time tbh but what I can say is although it maybe yellow/red/orange at first glance, if you bought the player trained him in that role and then get used to it, it should go into green half/full territory which I don't see it doing often or at all infact. I remember in 17 it changed a little with the bars going up slightly. 

[MatthewS17]

Just out curiosity. Those of you, who've had issues with the ME and such, which version of the ME on FM19, did you prefer. Before the update, after, the official release, or if you have, the beta? And why? 

Edited May 5, 2019 by MatthewS17

[kingking]

My feedback to FM19 is to fix the "Continue Game Timeout" Feature

Everyone, we need to convince SI to fix the Continue Game Timeout feature

It still doesn't work properly.

Please comment on these 2 threads.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by kingking

[BigV]

Has anyone had an issue of crossing. Not that it hits the defender (ill cover later) but the crossing in general of how many times it happens under a certain tactic that may focus on other areas. 

I tend to use a bit of both, playing through the teams using "standard" play so a balance of long ball and short passing which ends up being "middle" majority of the time. Seeing crosses happen is fine but I consider it way too much. Now I know there's been data analysis of central play being an issue but if that's the case then wide play would be dominant but not necessarily crossing. I understand that the directness of passing has some influence of crossing or I assume so due to wanting to direct "some" balls into the box or in and around the dangerous areas. I do instruct Telles to cross more so seeing him cross alot is not an issue but when others do it so often, especially my IF's. I always use shaw to "cross less often" and almost hit levels of what telles does but only on some occasions. Calabria I don't instruct as his crossing is 15 but has been wayward since joining so depending on his performance in match i'll adapt to the situation much like the directness of passing play. I expect mate to cross because he's good however, using him as an IF with locked cross left often I think his numbers maybe too high. Martial as shown in the screen shot is just as wild even with PI of "Pass shorter". 

On min-max in the EPL 2-6 crosses are completed per match with around 15-20 crosses attempted per match on average- https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7361/Stages/16368/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2018-2019

This would suggest the levels of my players doing so is huge even with trying to be "balanced" in terms of passing play and creation of chances. This game in the screenshots maybe max type due to the thumping the opposition team got but even then it's wildly above the average in most cases. 

My next issue is the crossing itself, there's been times where it hits the first defender all too often and I've found there's a couple of situations when crossing is useless in the situation. I've found my strikers moving into the channel all too much (not the issue i'm explaining but I do think it makes an impact of sorts) and when they do they decide to cross it with or without players being in the box. Now I know there are certain characteristics that may influence such as vision, passing, crossing and decision making but a prem player should know when to cross IRL and as it's a simulation it may have grey areas but should try to be like it. The scenario below shows lukaku- complete forward hold the ball should be explicit in this case but ends up trying to cross when no one is in the box nor tries to get past the defender other than to cross. (I've recently turned to 2D to pick up on such things and make it easier to post/explain such happenings). I wouldn't necessarily say crossing needs to be accurate but opportunistic depending on the situation. 

[99]

I was reading the last pages of this thread, it baffles me some of the "criticism", more like hate. I don't know if it's cool to say bad things about a popular game (in many areas, from music to cinema, being popular attracts many detractors because and only because of that fact), or some other reason that I'm unaware of.

Vast majority of us love the game, playing it everyday or as much as real life allow us. Last two weeks I was lucky to be able to play it everyday and I'm enjoying it immensely. It has some issues and areas that can have improvement, but so what, absolutely nothing is perfect.

Some people write about the game like it's the most sick, disturbing aspect of their existance. Relax people, if you hate the game don't play it and problem solved. Some feedback, if we can call it that, is unreal.

[Double0Seven]

3 hours ago, BigV said:

Has anyone had an issue of crossing. Not that it hits the defender (ill cover later) but the crossing in general of how many times it happens under a certain tactic that may focus on other areas. 

I tend to use a bit of both, playing through the teams using "standard" play so a balance of long ball and short passing which ends up being "middle" majority of the time. Seeing crosses happen is fine but I consider it way too much. Now I know there's been data analysis of central play being an issue but if that's the case then wide play would be dominant but not necessarily crossing. I understand that the directness of passing has some influence of crossing or I assume so due to wanting to direct "some" balls into the box or in and around the dangerous areas. I do instruct Telles to cross more so seeing him cross alot is not an issue but when others do it so often, especially my IF's. I always use shaw to "cross less often" and almost hit levels of what telles does but only on some occasions. Calabria I don't instruct as his crossing is 15 but has been wayward since joining so depending on his performance in match i'll adapt to the situation much like the directness of passing play. I expect mate to cross because he's good however, using him as an IF with locked cross left often I think his numbers maybe too high. Martial as shown in the screen shot is just as wild even with PI of "Pass shorter". 

On min-max in the EPL 2-6 crosses are completed per match with around 15-20 crosses attempted per match on average- https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7361/Stages/16368/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2018-2019

This would suggest the levels of my players doing so is huge even with trying to be "balanced" in terms of passing play and creation of chances. This game in the screenshots maybe max type due to the thumping the opposition team got but even then it's wildly above the average in most cases. 

My next issue is the crossing itself, there's been times where it hits the first defender all too often and I've found there's a couple of situations when crossing is useless in the situation. I've found my strikers moving into the channel all too much (not the issue i'm explaining but I do think it makes an impact of sorts) and when they do they decide to cross it with or without players being in the box. Now I know there are certain characteristics that may influence such as vision, passing, crossing and decision making but a prem player should know when to cross IRL and as it's a simulation it may have grey areas but should try to be like it. The scenario below shows lukaku- complete forward hold the ball should be explicit in this case but ends up trying to cross when no one is in the box nor tries to get past the defender other than to cross. (I've recently turned to 2D to pick up on such things and make it easier to post/explain such happenings). I wouldn't necessarily say crossing needs to be accurate but opportunistic depending on the situation. 



Finally someone with examples and proper proof. Do you have more examples of this other than this one occassion? 

Also as for the crossing, I suspect two things. None of your midfielders try to get in the box. Only the BBM will do it on late occasions. So not a lot of players in the box other than Martial/Lukaku often. Also your wing backs, none are on attack so they wont get forward fast. So what happens is your attack will fall still a bit and players will attempt to cross as their last hope. If you have more movement between the midfield and maybe a wing back, you can stretch your opponents open, create space and hopefully create more kind of chances instead of crosses. 

[BigV]

30 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Finally someone with examples and proper proof. Do you have more examples of this other than this one occassion? 

Also as for the crossing, I suspect two things. None of your midfielders try to get in the box. Only the BBM will do it on late occasions. So not a lot of players in the box other than Martial/Lukaku often. Also your wing backs, none are on attack so they wont get forward fast. So what happens is your attack will fall still a bit and players will attempt to cross as their last hope. If you have more movement between the midfield and maybe a wing back, you can stretch your opponents open, create space and hopefully create more kind of chances instead of crosses. 

Not at this moment but at somepoint this week I will, The thing is I barely see martial get in the box, i've seen his touch maps in the box and since the starts of the season 8 games I think and a few more for cup games he's got like 12 and he's played pretty much 80% of those games. I've seen pogba get in the box a few times- PI of run further forward as a AP-A and has become a top scorer with 12 goals and most being in the box and 3 pens. I thought that but everytime they do cross it's almost in an attacking position at the far left/right as if they were attacking wing backs. Very rarely do they cross from deep. I did think movement would impact it which it has done since I got rid of the deadwood in CM and having better movement has helped but all im seeing within games is the 3 stay as the 3 in front of the defensive line for the likes of the attacking 3 to do their thing. I have also tried playing around with the width, the narrower I go the more my full backs get involved and more crosses it goes even with PI's of cross less often. The wider I go the more central play I get but goals come in from CM's doing long shots or shooting close to the box. I rarely see goals inside the box worked from passing, through balls etc. but i do see some tap ins so that's a positive for advance forwards roles. I've also tried using the same tactic with the classic 4-2-3-1 to see if the CAM position has any influence of central play through defenders and although it's been short of game uses im seeing the same atm BUT a few more threaded balls into central positions so im glad they've worked on it a little from the alleged bug from a while back. I'll do some more testing and see what comes of it. 

[rdbayly]

The 'Move into channels' player instructions needs a serious overhaul for FM20. Not only is it locked in to far too many striker roles, it is way too pronounced in its effect on player movement. It is supposed to make players move into the spaces between centre backs and full backs; but all too often the striker moves outside the full back. In a lone striker system, this often sees him out by the sodding corner flag with nobody in the box. As play develops and a CM picks up the ball, the only real option they have is to shoot from distance. I'd say this at least somewhat contributes to the huge numbers of goals generated from long range and by CMs. It may also account for the fact that strikers tend to struggle to hit the numbers achieved by wide attackers and their CM team mates. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by rdbayly

[Tiger666]

28 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

The 'Move into channels' player instructions needs a serious overhaul for FM20. Not only is it locked in to far too many striker roles, it is way too pronounced in its effect on player movement. It is supposed to make players move into the spaces between centre backs and full backs; but all too often the striker moves outside the full back. In a lone striker system, this often sees him out by the sodding corner flag with nobody in the box. As play develops and a CM picks up the ball, the only real option they have is to shoot from distance. I'd say this at least somewhat contributes to the huge numbers of goals generated from long range and by CMs. It may also account for the fact that strikers tend to struggle to hit the numbers achieved by wide attackers and their CM team mates. 

Imo the game needs a "clean slate" striker role like the central midfielder or full back. A role that comes with no built in instructions that we can tailor how we like.

[themadsheep2001]

34 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

The 'Move into channels' player instructions needs a serious overhaul for FM20. Not only is it locked in to far too many striker roles, it is way too pronounced in its effect on player movement. It is supposed to make players move into the spaces between centre backs and full backs; but all too often the striker moves outside the full back. In a lone striker system, this often sees him out by the sodding corner flag with nobody in the box. As play develops and a CM picks up the ball, the only real option they have is to shoot from distance. I'd say this at least somewhat contributes to the huge numbers of goals generated from long range and by CMs. It may also account for the fact that strikers tend to struggle to hit the numbers achieved by wide attackers and their CM team mates. 

Personally I wouldn't say may, I think it actively hurts Forwards and should be a toggable instruction. For me it should would like this. 

Moves into channels: attack the space between CB and FB

Moves into channels with roaming also on: can attack outside the full back based on decision making.

If this is how it's working in game, then it feels off

It also doesnt help that wide hold up play isn't anywhere near as pronounced as it shoot, and feels biased towards crossing the ball

[rdbayly]

40 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Personally I wouldn't say may, I think it actively hurts Forwards and should be a toggable instruction. For me it should would like this. 

Moves into channels: attack the space between CB and FB

Moves into channels with roaming also on: can attack outside the full back based on decision making.

If this is how it's working in game, then it feels off

It also doesnt help that wide hold up play isn't anywhere near as pronounced as it shoot, and feels biased towards crossing the ball

I agree with this. The complete forward is a role that has both moves into channels and roams from position locked in. It is a classic example of the overly-pronounced issues I stated above. Why on earth this role thinks it can impact the game by standing in the corner quadrant is beyond me. I've had to abandon it in a lone striker system, as I've found players can go half a dozen games with barely having a shot, let alone scoring.

[themadsheep2001]

38 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I agree with this. The complete forward is a role that has both moves into channels and roams from position locked in. It is a classic example of the overly-pronounced issues I stated above. Why on earth this role thinks it can impact the game by standing in the corner quadrant is beyond me. I've had to abandon it in a lone striker system, as I've found players can go half a dozen games with barely having a shot, let alone scoring.

The CF support gets doubly hurt because the moves into channels effect is over pronounced, but also because wide hold up play and dribbling isnt strong enough, they don't cut back in and attack the box through through a pass or dribble

[BigV]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Personally I wouldn't say may, I think it actively hurts Forwards and should be a toggable instruction. For me it should would like this. 

Moves into channels: attack the space between CB and FB

Moves into channels with roaming also on: can attack outside the full back based on decision making.

If this is how it's working in game, then it feels off

It also doesnt help that wide hold up play isn't anywhere near as pronounced as it shoot, and feels biased towards crossing the ball

I think this needs to be a must have instruction in the game simply because it's a tactic thats specifically used in every day football. Choosing to play off the shoulders and maybe even target a specific player. So if someone is tall, target against a smaller defender and/or someone who's quick aiming at a slower defender. 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, BigV said:

I think this needs to be a must have instruction in the game simply because it's a tactic thats specifically used in every day football. Choosing to play off the shoulders and maybe even target a specific player. So if someone is tall, target against a smaller defender and/or someone who's quick aiming at a slower defender. 

Yep, in an ideal world I'd toggle this depending on who my opposition CBs were

[s1111]

I just went through a two week international break where I played my last game on the Sunday and next on the Saturday. To get from one match to the other took me 20 minutes of staring blankly at my screen doing absolutely nothing else and 41 (!!!!!!!) clicks of the continue button. I didn't do anything meaningful at all, unless you count a press conference and a tactical briefing as meaningful. You are killing the game with this absolute nonsense that I have to click through constantly. Endless emails, pointless stoppages to look at the social media feed, people seriously do not have time for this. You are going to lose a lot of players unless you sort things out for FM20. The flow of the game is totally broken right now.

And I even have the option ticked to have longer processing breaks with fewer stoppages. God knows what would happen if I didn't.

[Amarante]

5 hours ago, rdbayly said:

The 'Move into channels' player instructions needs a serious overhaul for FM20. Not only is it locked in to far too many striker roles, it is way too pronounced in its effect on player movement. It is supposed to make players move into the spaces between centre backs and full backs; but all too often the striker moves outside the full back. In a lone striker system, this often sees him out by the sodding corner flag with nobody in the box. As play develops and a CM picks up the ball, the only real option they have is to shoot from distance. I'd say this at least somewhat contributes to the huge numbers of goals generated from long range and by CMs. It may also account for the fact that strikers tend to struggle to hit the numbers achieved by wide attackers and their CM team mates. 

This. It's the biggest culprit of why strikers aren't really working in this year's version. I have to be using the F9 just to keep my striker central 

[BigV]

24 minutes ago, Amarante said:

I have to be using the F9 just to keep my striker central 

Funny enough when I allowed one of my u23's in a cup game as a striker on advanced forward, at half time I changed it to a false 9 and saw him work his way into the box and stay in central attacking areas where he would act like a striker irl. Ended up scoring twice, might use it more often and see if it works better. 

[Novem9]

I confused that almost all teams play in cautious/defensive mentality vs my team. I never play in attacking mentality, its happen if I play in balance mentality too.
Confused twice when I play in teams like Sunderland or Kaiserslautern. I promoted from 3 division to next and my media prediction is midtable, but even in this save my scouts report me about careful mentalities of my rivals. 
The most interesting thing that if any team play in balanced/positive/attacking mentality they have more chances.

Unfortunatelly just few times it was a 'football chess' where I and opposite AI coach made changes few times in context of opposite changes.

Really hope it will be more smart AI in FM20 (I dont say 'strong' and 'powerful') + tactical reproduction/sensivity like 'I see that I set'
for now I played in 41221, 442 and 532 with difference roles/TI but goals scored similar. (I used FB and WB in support duty only without a lot of crosses). 

I have a mixed feelings about moves in attack and possession attacks (wow so rare!) Its very similar to IRL, but its not the same. Some small detail here, another there and its an issue as a final  

[Novem9]

24 минуты назад, BigV сказал:

Funny enough when I allowed one of my u23's in a cup game as a striker on advanced forward, at half time I changed it to a false 9 and saw him work his way into the box and stay in central attacking areas where he would act like a striker irl. Ended up scoring twice, might use it more often and see if it works better. 

Striker roles of FM19 just cosplay each other

Edited May 6, 2019 by Novem9