Everything TOTAL Football (From Cruyff's 343 to Guardiola's Overloads) - UPDATED Feb 28, 2023

[Djuicer]

15 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

I'm even wondering if you have Ball Playing Defender with above average dribbling (+12) would be a good strategy to tell them to dribble more as a PI? It would be like if they had "Tries to play out of trouble" or "Bring the ball out of defence" Trait?

Probably. Or partially anyway. Dribble and the traits and we’re talking.

[daveb653]

I like the BPD and the Libero role to be honest, I had a 5-3-2 with a libero that worked fairly well, but not total football

In relation to F9/ Shadow Striker discussion, one of the reasons I'm trying to accommodate a Shadow Striker into my systems is I really like there movement and aggressiveness on the ball, plus they drop back and help alot more in the defensive side of the game. I found a F9 was a little bit of a passenger as in most of the play seemed to pass him by, which would be ok if he was creating space for others etc, but I didnt really see that either.

 

Edit: I've also noticed the 3-4-3 really struggles to break teams down that park the bus. I beat Liverpool 2-1 using it (not sure it was deserved but I'll take it) but up against Bournemouth who played a defensive 5-4-1(i think it was) with 2 dms I really struggled to a 1-0 at home.

Edited May 10, 2020 by daveb653

[skyline72]

1 hour ago, daveb653 said:

I like the BPD and the Libero role to be honest, I had a 5-3-2 with a libero that worked fairly well, but not total football

In relation to F9/ Shadow Striker discussion, one of the reasons I'm trying to accommodate a Shadow Striker into my systems is I really like there movement and aggressiveness on the ball, plus they drop back and help alot more in the defensive side of the game. I found a F9 was a little bit of a passenger as in most of the play seemed to pass him by, which would be ok if he was creating space for others etc, but I didnt really see that either.

 

Edit: I've also noticed the 3-4-3 really struggles to break teams down that park the bus. I beat Liverpool 2-1 using it (not sure it was deserved but I'll take it) but up against Bournemouth who played a defensive 5-4-1(i think it was) with 2 dms I really struggled to a 1-0 at home.

Yea...

Against teams that park the bus, I almost smash my laptop.....

[daveb653]

I had an idea to put the 1 (or both) wide players IF on attack duty, make them the main goal threat. But you'd need a pretty reserved midfield, not sure I'm educated enough in FM to pull it off  would probably do double carr and a dlp d in dm slot?

This is for the 4-3-3 version, not even going to attempt to mess with the 3-4-3  

[skyline72]

3 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

I had an idea to put the 1 (or both) wide players IF on attack duty, make them the main goal threat. But you'd need a pretty reserved midfield, not sure I'm educated enough in FM to pull it off  would probably do double carr and a dlp d in dm slot?

This is for the 4-3-3 version, not even going to attempt to mess with the 3-4-3  

Do it!

Hahahah. I restarted my save.

[daveb653]

3 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Do it!

Hahahah. I restarted my save.

Bugger  

I thought I had to, my PC crashed 2 nights ago, when i rebooted it didn't even recognise steam. But started tonight and alls back to normal??? funny things PC's.

 

Ill try the 4-3-3 tinkering, may try the 3-4-3 later in my save, I'm hot on the heels of City who are top on goal difference just now, Liverpool been beaten twice, by me and watford. Only us and City undefeated now.

[skyline72]

3 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

Bugger  

I thought I had to, my PC crashed 2 nights ago, when i rebooted it didn't even recognise steam. But started tonight and alls back to normal??? funny things PC's.

 

Ill try the 4-3-3 tinkering, may try the 3-4-3 later in my save, I'm hot on the heels of City who are top on goal difference just now, Liverpool been beaten twice, by me and watford. Only us and City undefeated now.

What system are you using right now?

[daveb653]

4 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

What system are you using right now?

 

I'm using both the 3-4-3 and the 4-3-3 away version from earlier in this thread. Normally use the 3-4-3 against teams that are going to be a little more open, but for teams that come and sit in a defensive mentality I tend to use the 4-3-3 as it grinds them down.

[Powello]

7 hours ago, daveb653 said:

I like the BPD and the Libero role to be honest, I had a 5-3-2 with a libero that worked fairly well, but not total football

In relation to F9/ Shadow Striker discussion, one of the reasons I'm trying to accommodate a Shadow Striker into my systems is I really like there movement and aggressiveness on the ball, plus they drop back and help alot more in the defensive side of the game. I found a F9 was a little bit of a passenger as in most of the play seemed to pass him by, which would be ok if he was creating space for others etc, but I didnt really see that either.

 

Edit: I've also noticed the 3-4-3 really struggles to break teams down that park the bus. I beat Liverpool 2-1 using it (not sure it was deserved but I'll take it) but up against Bournemouth who played a defensive 5-4-1(i think it was) with 2 dms I really struggled to a 1-0 at home.

I'm using a ss in my 433 instead of a striker and it's working great. I've seen him drop right into my half then next minute he's up the other end finishing a move he started back there 😊

[yonko]

22 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

 

Thats interesting! Because I had this newgen come through my academy at Sociedad, at first I thought he could be a new Busquets but now I'm thinking that he might be a decent BPD according to your criteria.

His Vision is really low but the rest are high enough. Maybe train some PPMs like "Brings ball out Defense", "Tries Short Passes" and get him mentored by someone with  "Tries to Play out of Trouble". What do you think. he is a keeper?

 

I think he should do well. Joe Gomez has 8 or 9 for Vision and he can sometimes outperform even Van Dijk. I think his other mental compensate for that maybe. 

So this guy should do well with Concentration and Decisions already at high level. Focus on his passing and composure. Pace also needs work. 

22 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I know that Supporting Striker movement was a problem on earlier versions of FM20, like them not dropping deep enough. One of the reasons I started experimenting with strikerless systems. Roaming might help them. It could be one of the reasons why Treq supposedly drops even lower than False9, because it has Roaming selected by default. But I havent really experimented much with Treqs in Striker Position as never really had a suitable player for this role. 

I've used Messi as both roles and I think that False 9 drops deeper than Treq. 

[daveb653]

7 hours ago, Powello said:

I'm using a ss in my 433 instead of a striker and it's working great. I've seen him drop right into my half then next minute he's up the other end finishing a move he started back there 😊

Yeah seems to be a great role

[Powello]

18 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

Yeah seems to be a great role

Yeah I'm liking it. Used to use either f9 or TQ but they didn't score as much as I'd like but the SS is great so far

[skyline72]

@daveb653

I was on a 18 match unbeaten streak.

Away to Norwich.

16 shots on target.

Final score: Norwich 1:0

[Powello]

This is the setup I use at the moment

Only been using it for a couple of months but so far it's doing alright

It's defensively solid, apart from the damn Bournemouth game where they destroyed me. Attacking wise it's not bad but could be better. Not sure what to change to make it more fluid attacking wise, having a total mind blank. ALthough I did only just notice, when I was cropping the screenshot on paint lol, that the team fluidity is only structured grr.

Yes I could put the SS back up top, but I like the work he's doing there way better than what a F9 or TQ does, plus he still gets in the box in time to finish moves off or set up others.

Current PIs are:

FB - Cross from byline, dribble less, rwwb and stay wider
CWB - Cross more often, Cross from byline, shoot less often - mainly because williams loves to shoot
DLP - Pass it shorter and I am trialling mark the opp AMC
CM - Take more risks, Dribble less, roam, move into channels, cose down less
RPM - more direct passes, drbble less, move into channels
W - cross aim centre, shoot less often, roam
SS - Shoot less often, roam
IF - pass shorter, shoot less, stay wider

UPDATE:- I made some role changes to get the team fluidity up to fluid and won the next game 4-1 away lol. Bit annoying about the goal but it was a ME thing I think not to do with the changes. Was just a cross which 3 of my defenders got beaten to by the opposing attacker

changes made were:-

FB to support
CM to AP-S After this change Frenandes ran the show
IF to W-S, I actually did have set up like that at the start of the season but I changed it a few games ago.

Also during the game I noticed Greenwood in the SS role dropped back way to far, further than usual so I changed him to a DLF -A and he scored twice. I think I might make that tweak just for away games as I haven't noticed him dropping that far back at home.

Oh and dropped the passiing and tempo to slightly shorter, again this might just be for away games

Edited May 11, 2020 by Powello

[crusadertsar]

This is my recent set up in my test save with Benfica. The original faithful recreation of 3-4-3 with wingers, carrileros and three defenders was a disaster. I faced a ton of parked buses in the division and ended drawing most of the matches and got destroyed in Europe. I thought me a lesson. So I decided to go for more unusual recreation. Technically this is 3-4-3 and I see its starting to play some nice Total Football so I think I will stick with it. Also the results improved immensely.

[crusadertsar]

As you can this was the start we had. Unbelievably we managed to draw 7 games in that initial stretch.

Then starting with that 5-1 Astna victory, I switched to the new 3-4-3 and its been like night and day. Had one month unbeaten run from December 11 to Jan 15. Might still get sacked in the end but at least its been an informative test save. 

 

[skyline72]

15 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

This is my recent set up in my test save with Benfica. The original faithful recreation of 3-4-3 with wingers, carrileros and three defenders was a disaster. I faced a ton of parked buses in the division and ended drawing most of the matches and got destroyed in Europe. I thought me a lesson. So I decided to go for more unusual recreation. Technically this is 3-4-3 and I see its starting to play some nice Total Football so I think I will stick with it. Also the results improved immensely.

Yea, I been facing problems against teams that has many bus captains. 

 

Trying out new setup as well.

[crusadertsar]

9 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Yea, I been facing problems against teams that has many bus captains. 

 

Trying out new setup as well.

Like @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Said, it's especially frustrating in Portugal. Out of those 6 draws in August and September, I think 4 opponents used 2 DM set ups and some even with 3 CBs in the back along with the DMs. I know I am Benfica and big dog in Portugal but this is ridiculuos. Do they really play like this in real life.

Edited May 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[skyline72]

17 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Like @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Said, it's especially frustrating in Portugal. Out of those 6 draws in August and September, I think 4 opponents used 2 DM set ups and some even with 3 CBs in the back along with the DMs. I know I am Benfica and big dog in Portugal but this is rediculuos. Do they really play like this in real life.

Is the same in the EPL as I am managing Man Utd. Smaller teams like to use 352, 4231, 532, etc with 2 DMs. That's a big problem.

I am laboring to 1-0 wins past few games thanks to Direct Freekick and Corners.

Edited May 11, 2020 by skyline72

[daveb653]

13 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Is the same in the EPL as I am managing Man Utd. Smaller teams like to use 352, 4231, 532, etc with 2 DMs. That's a big problem.

I am laboring to 1-0 wins past few games thanks to Direct Freekick and Corners.

Yeah me too, I thought we weren't the big boys anymore  

Im liking these set-ups

[crusadertsar]

18 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Is the same in the EPL as I am managing Man Utd. Smaller teams like to use 352, 4231, 532, etc with 2 DMs. That's a big problem.

Yeah. So sadly I think the traditional van Gaal's 3-4-3 is not really viable in the game. It's sad because I really wanted my team to play like 1995 Ajax. But on the positive note I think the formation I settled, Strikerless 3-4-3 Wide Diamond, is great against parked buses! It's the most Total Football formation I ever used. The defensive shape is solid with three in the back and condensed midfield with hard working shadow striker. And in attack we turn into 2-3-5 it even 2-1-7 sometimes which simply AI cannot handle. And some plays have been sublime  I'll post some videos later. Will be writing about this in more detail in my next article probably. Sometimes Attack is the best form of defence  

Edited May 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[skyline72]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

Yeah. So sadly I think the traditional van Gaal's 3-4-3 is not really viable in the game. It's sad because I really wanted my team to play like 1995 Ajax. But on the positive note I think the formation I settled on great against parked buses. It's the most Total Football formation I ever used. The defensive shape is solid with three in the back and condensed midfield with hard working shadow striker. And in attack we turn into 2-3-5 it even 2-1-7 sometimes which simply AI cannot handle. And some plays have been sublime  I'll post some videos later. Will be writing about this in more detail in my next article probably 

Waiting for your article!

[Overmars]

44 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

This is my recent set up in my test save with Benfica. The original faithful recreation of 3-4-3 with wingers, carrileros and three defenders was a disaster. I faced a ton of parked buses in the division and ended drawing most of the matches and got destroyed in Europe. I thought me a lesson. So I decided to go for more unusual recreation. Technically this is 3-4-3 and I see its starting to play some nice Total Football so I think I will stick with it. Also the results improved immensely.

I have been trying similar things just for fun. My observations:

• BBM works exactly as expected to provide a late threat going forward. Consistently good role.
• MEZ never seems quite right with two other flank players on that side.
• L(s) and L(a) position properly but don't make as many passes and assists as the BPDs or DLPs. Feels underused.
• Opposing GKs and CDs will pass relentlessly among themselves when I don't have forwards pressing them. Attack duties and high work rate help to combat that.
• The back three seems to prevent balls over the top better than a back four. Defense is solid.
• I often revert to dribble more often in order to create some chaos, fouls, and set pieces.

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, Overmars said:

I have been trying similar things just for fun. My observations:

• BBM works exactly as expected to provide a late threat going forward. Consistently good role.
• MEZ never seems quite right with two other flank players on that side.
• L(s) and L(a) position properly but don't make as many passes and assists as the BPDs or DLPs. Feels underused.
• Opposing GKs and CDs will pass relentlessly among themselves when I don't have forwards pressing them. Attack duties and high work rate help to combat that.
• The back three seems to prevent balls over the top better than a back four. Defense is solid.
• I often revert to dribble more often in order to create some chaos, fouls, and set pieces.

Thanks for the additional observations. I'm still fine-tuning mine so all feedback on this shape is great. I also been hesitating between Libero and DLP, as DLP on defend will probably play similar but I like the three in the back in my defensive shape. Overall I'm really liking what I'm seeing. But will need to test it properly with a side that I build up to play Total Football style through attributes and PPMs. So probably my old Sociedad save.

[skyline72]

From what I see, the TIs are more or less the same.

If we could get the play Roles and Duties right, we hit the jackpot!

[Overmars]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Thanks for the additional observations. I'm still fine-tuning mine so all feedback on this shape is great. I also been hesitating between Libero and DLP, as DLP on defend will probably play similar but I like the three in the back in my defensive shape. Overall I'm really liking what I'm seeing. But will need to test it properly with a side that I build up to play Total Football style through attributes and PPMs. So probably my old Sociedad save.

I was excited to try to get a libero to work because I liked the idea of having a playmaking superhero operate from deep, but in this match engine, he just doesn't seem to get the ball. In stark contrast, when I use an RPM, he moves all over the place and is on the ball in the exact way I want a playmaking superhero to be. A DLP is fine, but not as dynamic and fun to watch as an RPM. HB is a pretty great role when using a back four with wingbacks, though the HB is going to be more of a possession recycler than a creative genius. I thought a libero would be very similar to an HB, but I'm not sure why it doesn't play out that way.

[skyline72]

Sorry, out of topic.

How many players do you guys put in 1 mentoring group?

I got a few players have their determination drop. (Too many in 1 group?)

[crusadertsar]

7 minutes ago, Overmars said:

I was excited to try to get a libero to work because I liked the idea of having a playmaking superhero operate from deep, but in this match engine, he just doesn't seem to get the ball. In stark contrast, when I use an RPM, he moves all over the place and is on the ball in the exact way I want a playmaking superhero to be. A DLP is fine, but not as dynamic and fun to watch as an RPM. HB is a pretty great role when using a back four with wingbacks, though the HB is going to be more of a possession recycler than a creative genius. I thought a libero would be very similar to an HB, but I'm not sure why it doesn't play out that way.

You need a very special player with specific traits for this role though. Think physical-strong playmaker rather than a defender. Like in Benfica I'm using young Ferro in the role and the opposition is starting to single him out in their pregame briefings. He is that key to our side I guess. I definitely see it in our passing charts and he doesn't have that many assists. And I don't think he ever will be since he is usually two passes away from goal but his role is the build up is still major. With Sociedad I think Mikel Merino or over Oyarzabal will do great.

What I like the most however is that the opposition tends to bypass him until it's too late. My DLPs and RPMs tended to get marked out of the game before. Its probably has something to do with his deeper position.

[Powello]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

This is my recent set up in my test save with Benfica. The original faithful recreation of 3-4-3 with wingers, carrileros and three defenders was a disaster. I faced a ton of parked buses in the division and ended drawing most of the matches and got destroyed in Europe. I thought me a lesson. So I decided to go for more unusual recreation. Technically this is 3-4-3 and I see its starting to play some nice Total Football so I think I will stick with it. Also the results improved immensely.

6 minutes ago, Overmars said:

I was excited to try to get a libero to work because I liked the idea of having a playmaking superhero operate from deep, but in this match engine, he just doesn't seem to get the ball. In stark contrast, when I use an RPM, he moves all over the place and is on the ball in the exact way I want a playmaking superhero to be. A DLP is fine, but not as dynamic and fun to watch as an RPM. HB is a pretty great role when using a back four with wingbacks, though the HB is going to be more of a possession recycler than a creative genius. I thought a libero would be very similar to an HB, but I'm not sure why it doesn't play out that way.

I thought I would give this a go as I have been trying to get a 343 working and gave up before but after reading what you said about your current one @crusadertsar it sparked my interest again.

So I have started off with yours as a base and added a couple of my own tweaks and I have to say, I see why you like it. It does provide some great moves/goals. Only played 3 games with it so far though, also only conceded about 6 shots in total so solid at the back. 

I have played Tuanzebe, Garner and Mctominay as the Libero. SO far Tuanzebe has been great in the defensive side of it, literally everywhere stopping attacks. He does bring it out of defense but doesn't usually gives it to bruno or pogba. Garner and Mctominay do bring it out further but neither relly act as playmakers, leaving that to the 2 I mentioned earlier. Definitely can play a midfielder there. I was scouting to see if I can find a player who could fit and I found one at Benfica who is perfect for it, Gabriel.

I think with the right PIs and traits the libero can be a good playmaker though

I think you have definitely found a good base to work with.

Going to be a proper test of it soon as Maguire is injured so I might be having to play Fred in either the BPD or Libero role, probably the latter due to his height and , but again he has the stats to do it

 

[MadOnion]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Like @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Said, it's especially frustrating in Portugal. Out of those 6 draws in August and September, I think 4 opponents used 2 DM set ups and some even with 3 CBs in the back along with the DMs. I know I am Benfica and big dog in Portugal but this is ridiculuos. Do they really play like this in real life.

It is like that, but they're also prone to hurt you on the break since the league is full of technical/flair players. Many of them come from South America.

I also managed Benfica, though with a different system and I ensure we attack in numbers. Typically 3 defenders (2CBs + HB/DM), 2 midfielders sitting deep creating/recycling and 5 players attacking (2 WB providing width). Soon or later it will work.

Sometimes lowering the tempo helps since being patient is the key against those sides.

[crusadertsar]

Yup been using Gabriel there too, although Ferro is simply a beast right now, strong and creative.  My dream would probably be to use De Jong  Ideal player for this role. So jealous of Barca although wouldn't really want to play as them. Too easy haha

Thanks for testing! I think it's pretty similar to your initial idea. I think we are both on to something. At least for those tough defenses. Have been rolling over the parked buses so far and I've been playing with mostly my young prospects at Benfica as got rid of a lot of older deadwood. Going for all homegrown challenge. It's a lot of fun.

So let us know how it works for you. I will do an official update in my Friday article.

[Powello]

3 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Yup been using Gabriel there too, although Ferro is simply a beast right now, strong and creative.  My dream would probably be to use De Jong  Ideal player for this role. So jealous of Barca although wouldn't really want to play as them. Too easy haha

Thanks for testing! I think it's pretty similar to your initial idea. I think we are both on to something. At least for those tough defenses. Have been rolling over the parked buses so far and I've been playing with mostly my young prospects at Benfica as got rid of a lot of older deadwood. Going for all homegrown challenge. It's a lot of fun.

So let us know how it works for you. I will do an official update in my Friday article.

That one you mentioned from Sociedad also came up on my search  Yeah Barca would be too easy and De Jong would be a beast at it.

I love trying to recreate real life tactics and the AJax one is one I haven't managed to do yet so I am happy to join in the discussion, even if this one isn't exactly similar.One game aganist Everton I did struggle to break them down, well technically my players struggled to finish, they got in great positions but just had an off day as we drew 0-0, thankfully the defence were like a wall and Everton, iirc, only had 1 or 2 shots which were from range. That was a game where Tuanzebe just dominated as the Libero as a defensive machine

I have done some of those challenges, they are pretty fun.

I'll let you know what I come up with adding to yours. For a start I changed the mezzala to an AP, works better for me, probably just for me though lol

[daveb653]

28 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Sorry, out of topic.

How many players do you guys put in 1 mentoring group?

I got a few players have their determination drop. (Too many in 1 group?)

I have 1 strong character with good determination and 3 youngsters. But I make sure the "leader" has significant influence and the wonderkids are light.

Pretty hard with UTDs squad as theres only a couple with really good personalities and good determination (fernandes, mctom is ok)

[daveb653]

20 minutes ago, Powello said:

I thought I would give this a go as I have been trying to get a 343 working and gave up before but after reading what you said about your current one @crusadertsar it sparked my interest again.

So I have started off with yours as a base and added a couple of my own tweaks and I have to say, I see why you like it. It does provide some great moves/goals. Only played 3 games with it so far though, also only conceded about 6 shots in total so solid at the back. 

I have played Tuanzebe, Garner and Mctominay as the Libero. SO far Tuanzebe has been great in the defensive side of it, literally everywhere stopping attacks. He does bring it out of defense but doesn't usually gives it to bruno or pogba. Garner and Mctominay do bring it out further but neither relly act as playmakers, leaving that to the 2 I mentioned earlier. Definitely can play a midfielder there. I was scouting to see if I can find a player who could fit and I found one at Benfica who is perfect for it, Gabriel.

I think with the right PIs and traits the libero can be a good playmaker though

I think you have definitely found a good base to work with.

Going to be a proper test of it soon as Maguire is injured so I might be having to play Fred in either the BPD or Libero role, probably the latter due to his height and , but again he has the stats to do it

 

if you have money and are sticking with it, Milinkovic-savic is a beast as a libero.

[daveb653]

Ive tried this too, works pretty well, though i do tend to swap the ss for a dlf, as you mentioned he seems to drop really deep. Also changed the mezz to an AP, seems to work pretty well. 

Only other change I make is situational, I occasionally make one of the wide players an attacking duty if im really dominating but not scoring.

[crusadertsar]

8 minutes ago, MadOnion said:

It is like that, but they're also prone to hurt you on the break since the league is full of technical/flair players. Many of them come from South America.

I also managed Benfica, though with a different system and I ensure we attack in numbers. Typically 3 defenders (2CBs + HB/DM), 2 midfielders sitting deep creating/recycling and 5 players attacking (2 WB providing width). Soon or later it will work.

Sometimes lowering the tempo helps since being patient is the key against those sides.

Good point! So far my defence has not been to bad. But it's probably an example of attack first type of strategy. Hit them before they can respond and keep pressure going. Which in essence what Total Football has always been about. Intense pressing and attacking. It's never been about defending that much. Although the whole team is always meant to work hard on "defending", winning the ball back so as to be able to attack again. I figure that if I can fill my strikeress tactic with complete well-rounded, this tactic will do quite well. 

[crusadertsar]

5 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

if you have money and are sticking with it, Milinkovic-savic is a beast as a libero.

Yeah actually I saw someone on Reddit claim that they had an amazing tactic with Savic as libero. 

If you can get past the foul language  it's actually a pretty good read. And gives us more hope that that great success can be had with libero role. The role is really an unsung hero in FM20. 

[skyline72]

10 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

I have 1 strong character with good determination and 3 youngsters. But I make sure the "leader" has significant influence and the wonderkids are light.

Pretty hard with UTDs squad as theres only a couple with really good personalities and good determination (fernandes, mctom is ok)

So the ratio is 1 "leader" to 3 youngsters.....

I try it out later.

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

Ive tried this too, works pretty well, though i do tend to swap the ss for a dlf, as you mentioned he seems to drop really deep. Also changed the mezz to an AP, seems to work pretty well. 

Only other change I make is situational, I occasionally make one of the wide players an attacking duty if im really dominating but not scoring.

I always thought that using another playmaker in front of libero wasnt advisable but maybe I'll give this a chance 🙂 thanks! Both of my mezzalas (Chiquinho and Tiago Dantas) are more like advanced playmakers anyway.

 

[daveb653]

Yeah, like it says its just having the balls to play him on attack  

I saw the SMS in the libero role on a youtube video I think when i was trying to find out info on roles and partnerships.

[Powello]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

I always thought that using another playmaker in front of libero wasnt advisable but maybe I'll give this a chance 🙂 thanks! Both of my mezzalas (Chiquinho and Tiago Dantas) are more like advanced playmakers anyway.

 

Probably doesn't help to be fair lol I'm going to try cm s/a as well

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, daveb653 said:

Yeah, like it says its just having the balls to play him on attack  

I saw the SMS in the libero role on a youtube video I think when i was trying to find out info on roles and partnerships.

I wonder what's the big difference between Libero on attack versus support really is. I will have to test both I guess. Maybe on attack duty he will act even more as a dynamic playmaker in midfield.

[daveb653]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

I always thought that using another playmaker in front of libero wasnt advisable but maybe I'll give this a chance 🙂 thanks! Both of my mezzalas (Chiquinho and Tiago Dantas) are more like advanced playmakers anyway.

 

Yeah, I dont think it is, I just felt he mezz wasnt really involved as much as Id like, but he did score before I switched so maybe worth persisting with it, will link up nicely with the wb and IF too I guess.

 

I think it would affect the Libero more if it was on attacking duty really, as he'd be heading into centre mid area as the "playmaker" so you dont want more around him.

[daveb653]

1 minute ago, crusadertsar said:

I wonder what's the big difference between Libero on attack versus support really is. I will have to test both I guess. Maybe on attack duty he will act even more as a dynamic playmaker in midfield.

Yeah, I tried on one of my saves, hes alot more aggressive in his forward runs, when I tried I had Ajer there, he'd pass the ball forward then sprint after i pretty much  

I think hed rack up more assists/shots/goals, wheras on support he would mae the key pass before the assist so to speak

[daveb653]

4 minutes ago, Powello said:

Probably doesn't help to be fair lol I'm going to try cm s/a as well

Hmm, if you do bbm and cm(S) could free up the libero to be on attack duty! 

 

[Powello]

7 minutes ago, daveb653 said:

Hmm, if you do bbm and cm(S) could free up the libero to be on attack duty! 

 

Possibly yeah. I'm definitely not changing the BBM, I like how he plays

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, Powello said:

Possibly yeah. I'm definitely not changing the BBM, I like how he plays

Same. Without the standard holding midfielder BBM provides the grit in the midfield. I think instead of mezzala maybe use CM(s) with more playmaker PIs and no "Roaming". He would act better as a dynamic link between the libero and the inside forward. So after libero I would put the next best playmaker there basically.

Edited May 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[daveb653]

19 minutes ago, Powello said:

Possibly yeah. I'm definitely not changing the BBM, I like how he plays

Yeah I meant cm(s) and bbm together.

16 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Same. Without the standard holding midfielder BBM provides the grit in the midfield. I think instead of mezzala maybe use CM(s) with more playmaker PIs and no "Roaming". He would act better as a dynamic link between the libero and the inside forward. So after libero I would put the next best playmaker there basically.

Playmaker without the playmaker role  

Jus played Leeds in the cup, so put the libero on attack, acts more like a HB really, sits infront of the other 2 cds, doesnt seem to surge forwards to much like I thought. May have to give it a few more games there.

[skyline72]

1 minute ago, daveb653 said:

Yeah I meant cm(s) and bbm together.

Playmaker without the playmaker role  

Jus played Leeds in the cup, so put the libero on attack, acts more like a HB really, sits infront of the other 2 cds, doesnt seem to surge forwards to much like I thought. May have to give it a few more games there.

Did you win the Roses Derby?

[daveb653]

Off Topic but just noticed Pogba's acceleration and pace are down to 10 and 11 respectively after his knee ligament injury