FM19 - The Community Formation Experiment

[jasonbuids]

Interesting, count me in.

[Brian]

Count me in if there is still a spot available! 

[Coach_G]

This seems like a good challenge. I'll take a crack at it!

[Deego619]

On 02/04/2019 at 20:47, BlueScreen said:

If Jambo doesn´t mind, we can trade, there´s no point in you starting again. For me it´s completly fine if we change.

 

On 02/04/2019 at 22:29, Jambo98 said:

Yeah that makes no difference to me lads - go for it. 

Thanks a million, apologies again.

Anyone else noticing a ton of injuries? I feel like there's one every other week with this squad.

[Chevie]

Formation: 3-1-4-2 DM

A quick update as I've just played my first competitive games.

So the rest of pre-season went well, the only game we didn't win we still dominated (71% possession and 18 shots with my second string side).

The first two competitive games have so far yielded wins in both games. An average of 60% possession and 3 clear cut chances to 0 have shown me that my team are playing how I want them to. Bigger tests to come, of course, but this is a positive start.

My left back who I am converting to a midfielder is also adapting well so far, let's hope that continues for the rest of the season!

[BlueScreen]

3 horas atrás, JDeeguain disse:

 

Thanks a million, apologies again.

Anyone else noticing a ton of injuries? I feel like there's one every other week with this squad.

👍

[Tactics Tom]

Sign me up! Excited to try this one out

[jc577]

This 4-1-3-1-1 is kicking my .... 

[Jambo98]

Right apologies lads, was busy this evening (e.g out on the Ale), so here are the next allocations:
 

@jasonbuids - 541 Diamond WB

@Rooks - 42310 DM 

@Coach_G - 3232 DM

@Tactics Tom - 4231 DM Wide

[Jambo98]

On 03/04/2019 at 11:38, herne79 said:

Clearly I'm going blind and I've missed this .  Pick me a formation please @Jambo98 .

There has to be some irony in the fact that i also somehow missed this reply  

@herne79 - 5131 DM WB 

[Jambo98]

 

and its taken me an age to even set up my own save, let alone my own tactic, but here goes the starting point. 

4141 DM Asymmetric AMR 

 

On paper, we have quite a balanced shape to start with. The initial concepts here are pretty much in line with that, nothing too complicated.

Carvalho as the HB is somewhat of a nod to how he has played IRL for Betis at times, but also to enable Firpo to be an attacking force for us. With  Barragan staying more deep, we will hopefully slip into a sort of hybrid back 3/4 as we transition. Guardado then tucking in central to give us a body in there as Firpo overlaps. 

In attack, we have width from Joaquin and Firpo and i have gone a little unorthodox with Poacher on the sole striker for 3 reasons. Firstly,i want him to push forward and create space for Lo Celso to operate. Secondly, i want him to stay mainly around the box, i do not really need him involved much in the build up. And lastly i am really interested to see how that role plays specifically with the player traits that. Lo Celso is the heartbeat of the team but i am less settle on the CM role. Obviously Canales is not really a BBM so i might look to fill that space with a transfer. 

At the moment i have not changed much in instruction terms. Going with controlled possession but we will likely need a different approach v the big 2 teams. 

Hopefully get some more time tomorrow to try this out 

[Armistice]

Ok, almost finished pre-season now, still got to play Zaragoza in a friendly. Started the pre-season well, I thought I would not put too much emphasis on the results and just try to get players up to full fitness. Won the first 4 friendlies against lesser opponents (two second league Portuguese teams, two French Ligue 2 teams), then played stronger opponents in Napoli and Roma and lost both, 0-2 and 0-3. I'll have to watch the games back and try to spot anything concerning about the tactic, from what I've seen we're extremely vulnerable when the opponent switches the play on the other side.

First two league games are against Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid. Fun days. 

[Jommelb]

4-2-4 DM

So far I've come up with this. The challenge is of course to deal with the big central gap in the tactic. I've thought about playing very direct since we have 4 players high up the pitch, but since none of them is really big or strong to hold up the ball I've chosen a different approach. The middle should be occupied with the AP, VOL and the F9. Sometimes I use a Trequarista instead of an F9. So far it's working ok. 
In this way I can have Canales, Joaquín and Lo Celso in a more or less creative role.
The forward players are all instructed to press more. The two wide players actually do a lot of work defensively. 
I started with the LoE a little lower to help close that gap, but it wasn't really working. These last couple of matches we played with a normal LoE and it worked better. 

Results:

We started the league against Barcelona and Real Madrid. Especially against Barcelona we really had chances to take at least one point. Real Madrid surprised us with a 4-2-4 strikerless formation. 

Last match was great. I'll try to share one of the goals with you.

 

 

 

[Coach_G]

3-2-3-2 DM

I've settled on a a style that aims to put pressure on opposing defenses and then looks to quickly spring our attack. The roles weren't sorted until after our loss to Juve in preseason. Surprisingly we were up 1-0 at half and then I made my full 11 swap like I tend to do during preseason and they scored twice in the 2nd. Now to see how this holds up in league play!

[Jean0987654321]

On 04/04/2019 at 19:57, jc577 said:

This 4-1-3-1-1 is kicking my .... 

Is it the narrow one or the wide?

[herne79]

5-1-3-1-DM WB

Transfers

I only brought in one player - a backup Central Defender for some extra cover as we're pretty thin for defenders when playing 3 CDs.  He was available on a free transfer - great Positioning and solid enough as a back up (see below).  I also terminated Jese's loan from PSG because 1) there are already way too many "wingers" at the club when I don't need wingers and 2) he's pants.

 

System

With such a deep formation I decided to go full-on ugly football with some counter attacking thrown in for good measure.  I have a more attacking set up as well when I fancy a change but gotta love 1-0 wins  (the matches against Levante and Lazio I used my more attacking set up).

(Note - I don't always have the wingbacks with a defend duty).

I unsurprisingly lost away in Barcelona, but only 1-0 and it was a goal keeper own goal during a corner.  Awesome.

One thing to note here - don't be afraid of using the "wingers" in the squad such as Tello in central midfield roles.  Some of them have great pace which can help with counter attacks or even just getting up the pitch quickly to support the lone striker .

[kun^^]

So far we're doing well.

In this eighteen games unbeaten we had 8 strait draw's 

 

Mariano came on december transfer window, i ask the board to buy him because i don't have the funds to do it and they did 

I've made a few tweeks on the tactic, change de RPM to DLP(s) and the DLF(s) To an AF just because the DLF was dropping to deep and with two central midfielders on attack that area was to over crowded

[smplfc123]

Can you sign me up please @Jambo98 

[DeekyABC]

Wouldn't mind getting involved if there's any spaces left please.

[Armistice]

Looks like I'm the only one doing awful. Bottom of the league after 4 games, I can't find any balance in the formation I've been given. Everything is so narrow.

[kun^^]

1 hora atrás, Armistice disse:

Looks like I'm the only one doing awful. Bottom of the league after 4 games, I can't find any balance in the formation I've been given. Everything is so narrow.

Slightly different formation and a bit old  , but maybe could help you .

I don't know why but all those years past and i still remember that thread .

 

@wez007

[Jambo98]

@smplfc123 - 4132 DM 

@DeekyABC - 343 DM wide 

[kun^^]

The end of a great season ,

4th In la Liga / Semi final on Europa League

This is a good tactic overall after you understand what you need to do, i never used it before so it's was watch and tweek game by game until it's balanced.

The player overall rating shows that all the players perform well .

 

 

[Armistice]

23 hours ago, kun^^ said:

Slightly different formation and a bit old  , but maybe could help you .

I don't know why but all those years past and i still remember that thread .

 

@wez007

Thanks. I’ve also read Cleon’s Brazilian Box which has a similar formation but mine doesn’t seem to work at all.

[andre62]

22 hours ago, kun^^ said:

The end of a great season ,

4th In la Liga / Semi final on Europa League

This is a good tactic overall after you understand what you need to do, i never used it before so it's was watch and tweek game by game until it's balanced.

The player overall rating shows that all the players perform well .

 

 

Can you share to test please look very good tactic and interesting tactical system

[smplfc123]

Thanks @Jambo98 

[warlock]

352

Well, this just isn't working. After tinkering in a long pre-season I finally settled on something that appeared to work. And our opening game of the season, against Valencia at home, seemed to vindicate that as we produced a 4-2 victory. Unfortunately, in the next 6 league games we've managed just 2 draws and 4 defeats. To be fair, we had a horrible run of games against Barca, A. Madrid and R. Madrid in the space of a week and managed an undeserved point against Real, but we also endured a draw against rock-bottom Valladolid and lost to a struggling Leganes.

Carvalho has been consistently terrible at CM, and despite bringing in Divok Origi on loan, we've been toothless up front. And I don't think I've managed a team this year that is so bad at converting corners and setpieces.

So I think I'll have to restart... Morale is at rock bottom, and the fans and board are on my back about the tactic:

[craiigman]

How/why is the 52210 still in the game. I had that last year @Klfh safe to say I gave up before I got to my first league game.

[Jambo98]

2 hours ago, warlock said:

352

Well, this just isn't working. After tinkering in a long pre-season I finally settled on something that appeared to work. And our opening game of the season, against Valencia at home, seemed to vindicate that as we produced a 4-2 victory. Unfortunately, in the next 6 league games we've managed just 2 draws and 4 defeats. To be fair, we had a horrible run of games against Barca, A. Madrid and R. Madrid in the space of a week and managed an undeserved point against Real, but we also endured a draw against rock-bottom Valladolid and lost to a struggling Leganes.

Carvalho has been consistently terrible at CM, and despite bringing in Divok Origi on loan, we've been toothless up front. And I don't think I've managed a team this year that is so bad at converting corners and setpieces.

So I think I'll have to restart... Morale is at rock bottom, and the fans and board are on my back about the tactic:

To be fair, i think restarts are pretty common on this  I know most years i have 3 or 4 attempts at least...........

 

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

How/why is the 52210 still in the game. I had that last year @Klfh safe to say I gave up before I got to my first league game.

It could be asked about a number of the "defaults" to be honest, at some point i hoped perhaps one of the mods might glance at one of these threads and stick a review of the default formations on the big "to do" board at SI HQ.........but after 5 years, i doubt it  

I actually think a couple were added this year, have not the patience to go back and check the list  from last year, but i also think all sweeper systems have been removed? 

 

[warlock]

3 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

To be fair, i think restarts are pretty common on this

Oh, I know . Can't remember how many attempts it took me last year before I finally found a solution.

Since there doesn't seem to be any way to defend the FB positions with this setup, I'm thinking I might try a more positive "attack is the best form of defence" approach next.

[jc577]

1 hour ago, warlock said:

Oh, I know . Can't remember how many attempts it took me last year before I finally found a solution.

Since there doesn't seem to be any way to defend the FB positions with this setup, I'm thinking I might try a more positive "attack is the best form of defence" approach next.

To be fair, if you're using Joaquin and Guardado as your starting wide-midfielders, I can see why defending the flanks will be difficult. Also doesn't help that Garcia and Carvalho as awfully slow, and will be required to cover a lot of ground in this formation.

[warlock]

3 minutes ago, jc577 said:

To be fair, if you're using Joaquin and Guardado as your starting wide-midfielders, I can see why defending the flanks will be difficult

Doesn't matter who's played there, or whether they're wingers, WMs, DWs... I can get them to defend, but they always go narrow when they drop back, not covering the FB spaces. Tello, Barragan and Firpo were worse, Emerson was just terrible, 

I'm sure everyone has their own issues, but this formation is a real stretch for Betis - short on strikers, short on CBs, short on CMs. There's an awful lot of square pegs in round holes.

[Jambo98]

1 minute ago, warlock said:

Doesn't matter who's played there, or whether they're wingers, WMs, DWs... I can get them to defend, but they always go narrow when they drop back, not covering the FB spaces. Tello, Barragan and Firpo were worse, Emerson was just terrible, 

I'm sure everyone has their own issues, but this formation is a real stretch for Betis - short on strikers, short on CBs, short on CMs. There's an awful lot of square pegs in round holes.

I am not in game at the moment, but do we not have at least 4 pretty good CBs? With plenty wide options, i would be looking at using the transfers  on at least one CM maybe 2 and a striker, but Joaquin up there is an option as well

[Jean0987654321]

10 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

I am not in game at the moment, but do we not have at least 4 pretty good CBs? With plenty wide options, i would be looking at using the transfers  on at least one CM maybe 2 and a striker, but Joaquin up there is an option as well

4 good options? Not really. Sidnei and Javi Garcia are too old and slow. Mandi is decent and Bartra is good but that's it

[jc577]

@Jean0987654321 Sorry just seen your post, I'm playing the 4-1-3-1-1 DM AM, so narrow. Think I'm due a restart tbh 

[Jean0987654321]

1 minute ago, jc577 said:

@Jean0987654321 Sorry just seen your post, I'm playing the 4-1-3-1-1 DM AM, so narrow. Think I'm due a restart tbh 

I would try to play with Carrileros. That should cover the wings well in defense

[warlock]

Just now, Jambo98 said:

do we not have at least 4 pretty good CBs?

We do, but four players covering 3 spots is a stretch when you're playing in Europe. Hadn't thought about Joaquin as a striker but I tried Jese there and he was terrible, which was I brought in Origi on loan. I did sign a young CB from Malaga as backup but that used up the available transfer budget. But those two positions seemed to me to be the most urgent - there are plenty of bodies in midfield (even if they're not the best in those positions).

When I fire up the next attempt I'll be nicking @herne79's idea and signing Albentosa (who I considered before opting for the Malaga lad), and reevaluating the squad in other areas.

[warlock]

8 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Sidnei and Javi Garcia are too old and slow. Mandi is decent and Bartra is good but that's it

Well, Sidnei did alright for me, and there's Feddal, who was also pretty handy.

[Klfh]

4 hours ago, craiigman said:

How/why is the 52210 still in the game. I had that last year @Klfh safe to say I gave up before I got to my first league game.

Yeah, I'm  six league games in and it's looking really bleak... we won the first game thanks to one penalty and one free kick, those are the only two goals we've  scored. I'm currently living in a campervan, so no access to a computer anymore until June, then I'll probably have to rethink the hole deal...

I'm wondering whether a very attacking mentality and lots of attacking duty might be the answer... I'm gonna think about that one, this tactic is obviously a bust...

[Jambo98]

Barely had a chance to touch this, and not got beyond pre-season yet, but did make 2 of my allowed transfers to boost the squad.

First up, used up my loan on an old Betis favourite.

Slightly surprised he was available to loan, and although he is no spring chicken, his player traits and versatility really attact me. He will likely be our starting CM, but can also cover ML and CDM, giving us a different look in those slots

Then the first of my cash signings, from south american and with some potential my scouts think:

A bit similar to Benat, but i had no one else really in the squad i liked in the CM slot and this guy gives us extra options through the middle, again with interesting traits.

We have barely any transfer / wage budget left and i have no real obvious hole in the squad so might keep my powder dry with regards to the 3rd signing and leave myself the option to add in Jan. 

Initial impressions are that the AP(s) and BBM(s) can end up occupying the same space, something i will need to watch out for as we start the real games 

[jc577]

35 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

I would try to play with Carrileros. That should cover the wings well in defense

True, but then I'm entirely reliant on the FBs, AM + Striker to create movement. 

[Jean0987654321]

22 minutes ago, jc577 said:

True, but then I'm entirely reliant on the FBs, AM + Striker to create movement. 

Don't be fooled. Carrileros can attack as well. Just gotta get the PIs and PPMs right

[Armistice]

So I tried to sell Tello last night, barely got any decent offer, but in the end had to accept 8m from Valencia. I was happy because I was thinking I could buy a decent striker with that money. After the transfer was completed, I saw Barcelona was given 50% of the transfer because of a clause. 

[diimaan]

Count me in @Jambo98 if still there is a slot!

[Jambo98]

@diimaan- 5212 WB 

[Fosse]

I hate it so much. In friendlies I've tried playing very high up to try and avoid the issue of the space in behind the full backs bu we're susceptible to long diagonals in behind. I've trialled playing very deep as well to compress the space but still the wide players don't pick up opposition wingers - I'll have to try the WMs on defend 

 

[Dwarf]

After lurking forever, I thought this looked like it'd be really interesting to try. Sign me up!

[Jean0987654321]

On 10/04/2019 at 11:22, Fosse said:

I hate it so much. In friendlies I've tried playing very high up to try and avoid the issue of the space in behind the full backs bu we're susceptible to long diagonals in behind. I've trialled playing very deep as well to compress the space but still the wide players don't pick up opposition wingers - I'll have to try the WMs on defend 

 

I would try playing with DWs and a HB. That should give you a bit of defensive cover when the ball turns over...

[Fosse]

1 hour ago, Jean0987654321 said:

I would try playing with DWs and a HB. That should give you a bit of defensive cover when the ball turns over...

I've tried both, the DWs don't play too differently to WMs. The HB doesn't perform like it does with a 4 at the back system either

[Jean0987654321]

1 hour ago, Fosse said:

I've tried both, the DWs don't play too differently to WMs. The HB doesn't perform like it does with a 4 at the back system either

Good to know. These 3-in-the-back systems doesn't seem as effective as it used to be in the earlier editions and FM18...