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Realistic?...I don’t think so


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What has gone wrong with FM? It is a game that has built a reputation based on realism and a genuine challenge but both those things are now missing. 

I have taken Torquay from Conference South to the Championship in 7 seasons, spending no money and playing same tactic every year. I have just started championship season and find myself 4th and completely outclassing teams that on paper are far better than me. My team is made up of players better suited to leagues one and two yet I am able to dominate....the AI of other teams is comical, for example I have a player sent off away to Middlesbrough and I’m winning 1-0 and what do they do? Send on another defender of course!!

And other daft things...

i was offered France job during second season and in the Conference National......A regular first teamer  gets upset at not being allowed to move to a team lower division....A player I wanted to loan opts for a team lower division....The value of my players is bizarre, especially when compared to other players with far worse stats but are worth a lot more.....The opposition in play off games field a weak team of reserves and youngsters, despite it being their biggest game of the season!!......Despite 4 promotions in 7 seasons I am still only ‘fairly good’ manager reputation....Tried to loan a player and willing to pay 100% wages but declined, then they accept an offer to buy the player for nothing!!

So many things about the game are rendering it almost unplayable and add to that the ‘tired’ stadium graphics with unrealistic representations of fans, maybe FM is coming to its end. 

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Yes it’s a moan!! My examples are exactly that..examples! Examples of issues I have noticed and undoubtedly in other people’s games there would be other ‘issues’. 

I don’t think it should necessarily be in the bugs forum which is why I put it up for general discussion. I think FM is going backwards in realism which is a great shame as I have enjoyed football management games for many years. The yearly releases need to be more than tweaks and occasional additions to game play, the game needs to be completely rebuilt. It is looking dated graphically and the gameplay has become borderline ludicrous.

 

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1 hour ago, Smh66 said:

.A regular first teamer  gets upset at not being allowed to move to a team lower division....A player I wanted to loan opts for a team lower division....The value of my players is bizarre, especially when compared to other players with far worse stats but are worth a lot more.....

Welcome to the  world of game breaker exploits (the download sections, FMBase et all have been full of those ever since Champ Man, btw.) Due to Player Quality making no much difference, you raise through the Tiers at a pace the "Reputation" mechanic can't Keep up with. Teams at a lower Tier could be seen as "bigger" ones by the Players -- and the Players worth will never match their Performance as they are gifted Goals no matter much what. Make a different tactic or continue playing. Going by the game's history, it's not going to go away anytime soon -- and actually, has Always been a pretty popular way of playing.

Edited by Svenc
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If you were offered the France job in the second season, I'd imagine you'd set your playing experience as International footballer with maximum badges.

Which is also why your reputation hasn't improved much - because you haven't really achieved much beyond what the level of your starting rep would have been.

Like @sporadicsmiles says - unrealistic inputs give unrealistic outputs

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I agree, it can be "easy" (aka unrealistic) to enjoy such rapid success.  Having a moan is fine, it could also be useful to upload your game save to the ftp server, open a thread in the Bugs forum and let the SI devs take a look to see if there is anything they can improve upon.

One question @Smh66 - as you are looking for realism, which realistic tactic have you been using?

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1 hour ago, Smh66 said:

Yes it’s a moan!! My examples are exactly that..examples! Examples of issues I have noticed and undoubtedly in other people’s games there would be other ‘issues’. 

I don’t think it should necessarily be in the bugs forum which is why I put it up for general discussion. I think FM is going backwards in realism which is a great shame as I have enjoyed football management games for many years. The yearly releases need to be more than tweaks and occasional additions to game play, the game needs to be completely rebuilt. It is looking dated graphically and the gameplay has become borderline ludicrous.

 

Fair enough. Moaning is fine, no problem with it. I still think if you think there are problems you should report them somewhere. The game is not going to improve without input from users. The devs can only do so much by themselves. Think of how many combined hours all players have, compared to the devs. If you can provide a save where these things happen, they can easily have at what is going on without having to go through a long, lengthy and successful save themselves to generate the same problems. I guess it is personal choice, but for me a moan without any subsequent action will not help you or anyone else in the long run.

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Simulation gaming perfected. Take charge of the club you love and create your own footballing story. Complete control of this stunningly realistic game world is yours - every decision in your hands, or yours to delegate.

This is whats on there Web Site so should I not expect this ?

Isnt it fair to expect whats promised

Edited by prot651
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1 hour ago, Smh66 said:

Nope!! I set myself as semi pro. 

So a semi-pro manager managing a Conference team was offered the France job? Course you did :thup:

Sounds like there's a few odd things happening in your save that aren't cropping up in others. You sure there isn't editing of some kind going on?

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9 hours ago, herne79 said:

I agree, it can be "easy" (aka unrealistic) to enjoy such rapid success.  Having a moan is fine, it could also be useful to upload your game save to the ftp server, open a thread in the Bugs forum and let the SI devs take a look to see if there is anything they can improve upon.

One question @Smh66 - as you are looking for realism, which realistic tactic have you been using?

The tactic I use is 4141 DM Wide, Gegenpress, balanced mentality, very high defensive line with pacey defenders. 

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8 hours ago, wattzy said:

So a semi-pro manager managing a Conference team was offered the France job? Course you did :thup:

Sounds like there's a few odd things happening in your save that aren't cropping up in others. You sure there isn't editing of some kind going on?

I know, crazy eh? And no editing at all. 

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Update...my team that are mostly rated ‘good player for league one’ or less are currently top of the championship, unbeaten and only conceded 3 goals in 7 games. 

Also my scouts come back with players rated ‘good for league two’ but state they would be a ‘quality’ signing!!! Ahem...I’m in the championship....

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21 hours ago, Smh66 said:

 

And other daft things...

i was offered France job during second season and in the Conference National......A regular first teamer  gets upset at not being allowed to move to a team lower division....A player I wanted to loan opts for a team lower division....The value of my players is bizarre, especially when compared to other players with far worse stats but are worth a lot more.....The opposition in play off games field a weak team of reserves and youngsters, despite it being their biggest game of the season!!......Despite 4 promotions in 7 seasons I am still only ‘fairly good’ manager reputation....Tried to loan a player and willing to pay 100% wages but declined, then they accept an offer to buy the player for nothing!!

 

All to do with the fact that the reputation system is thoroughly broken - it's the black hole at the heart of FM sucking all the enjoyment away. 

 

.

Edited by rp1966
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FM19 is easier than the previous FM's but most importantly, gegenpress is waaay too overpowered. You can play youth players out of position and win superior teams with it like a boss.

So until SI does something about that, I'd suggest steering away from gegenpress -style football. Try playing with low engagement line / defensive line and the game gets more satisfying.

In the future FM's they hopefully find a more realistic balance between tactics and player ability. IRL you don't see Gibraltar beating Spain no matter how many Jurgen Klopp's they have on their bench telling the players to run like headless chickens for 90 mins.

 

Edited by Seqw
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I agree the game is not very realistic, and this is both accidental (bugs) and intentional (coding)... The game needs to make you feel more good than bad, otherwise sales may suffer...

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20 hours ago, phd_angel said:

I agree the game is not very realistic, and this is both accidental (bugs) and intentional (coding)... The game needs to make you feel more good than bad, otherwise sales may suffer...

Well, it is a game that tries to simulate reality. We all know reality is not governed by an algorithm like a game is. So to expect 100% realism is utopic.

Maybe get into managing a real life football club if it's 100% realism you want. 

I personally like the little quirks the game has. I too have lost my main striker to a team playing below my level. I thought it was funny so I made up a story in my head that he fell in love with a girl in that town. 

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Just one example from IRL. The same as a first message.

We have a tactical coach in Russia, his name is Kurban Berdyev. He a specialist of 352 underdog style. His Rubin won Barca in Camp Nou, low level Rostov played in ChL few seasons ago.
After promotion in Premier League he had 3th place in First season. Anybody bought his players? No, because everybody know - his players non-good without him (sometimes he has a not bad players but its like exception)

Poor CB which rarely played in other low team and had low raiting moved to this coach and he was nice in big games. Just like in FM with cheat-tactic.
So, Berdyev had a invites from topclubs? Or from leaders of Russian division. No.

Another example is Eddie Howe. But you know him much better me :)

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On ‎22‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 07:24, rp1966 said:

All to do with the fact that the reputation system is thoroughly broken - it's the black hole at the heart of FM sucking all the enjoyment away. 

 

.

It's not the Reputation System as such as an engine / tactical System that (unintentionally!) has always allowed Player Quality to be consistently redundant. Unless your view of tactics in Football is that what's actually Happening -- Teams outperforming all their ability across the board for Seasons on end, that is. Rather than tactical decisions shifting the odds a few.

If the AI on the same playing Level would buy These Players, it weaken itself. They would never perform for them. It's not solely Reputation in this case at all either way -- as the AI also checks the Players actual ability. They are seen for what they really are, if you will. 

 

edit: That naturally goes the other way too, to a degree. The game allows nonsense tactical decisions that guarantee a side to big time underperform. Oft, there's an overlap with "exploit tactics", as they are oft structurally weak with visible holes on the pitch and only ever punished by Chance (or the AI's edited traits and formations) as the game's AI isn't actually smart. 

Edited by Svenc
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8 hours ago, Svenc said:

It's not the Reputation System as such as an engine / tactical System that (unintentionally!) has always allowed Player Quality to be consistently redundant. Unless your view of tactics in Football is that what's actually Happening -- Teams outperforming all their ability across the board for Seasons on end, that is. Rather than tactical decisions shifting the odds a few.

If the AI on the same playing Level would buy These Players, it weaken itself. They would never perform for them. It's not solely Reputation in this case at all either way -- as the AI also checks the Players actual ability. They are seen for what they really are, if you will. 

 

edit: That naturally goes the other way too, to a degree. The game allows nonsense tactical decisions that guarantee a side to big time underperform. Oft, there's an overlap with "exploit tactics", as they are oft structurally weak with visible holes on the pitch and only ever punished by Chance (or the AI's edited traits and formations) as the game's AI isn't actually smart. 

The ME is a separate issue, that comment wasn't really about tactics, although you are right about the value of player attributes.

If you look at the issue I made that comment in response to - it was about managers who have had success that can only move backwards or can't get another job at all, managers who have had rapid success who are treated like nobodies (hype just isn't a thing) ,players who refuse to move to get playing time or fail to recognise a club that's on the rise, it also leaves top flight players and managers homeless - Jose Mourinho leaves Man Utd and unable to get another job ever, young players who retire rather than playing for lesser clubs,.

Some of these things have been reported over and over in the bugs threads and the common denominator is the reputation system. It's fine applied to long term upward reputation gains, but ignore managers on a hot streak (short term reputation/hype) which allows some managers IRL to get big jobs. It doesn't cope at all well with players and manager who need to drop a level to continue their career - reputation stops them taking a job even if the wage level can  be met (often it can't be, so they get doubly blocked). It also doesn't fairly represent the value those steady managers who can keep mediocre sides slightly over-achieving season after season without winning everything. This leads to managers who mybe challenge the board for more resources, can't get it and leave, but then can only get job offers from two leagues below the level they were previously managing.

And on it goes ... I'm sure you've seen all the issues I'm referring to.

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I’m glad my original post has got a few people interested and I’m not alone in my disappointment. 

FM19 will be long remembered as the worst version and there is a lot to fix. Hopefully work is underway on FM20 which addresses a lot of issues, focusing on making the game a realistic and fun challenge, whilst getting rid of the silly stuff like Twitter and social media feeds. 

 

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5 hours ago, Smh66 said:

I’m glad my original post has got a few people interested and I’m not alone in my disappointment. 

FM19 will be long remembered as the worst version and there is a lot to fix. Hopefully work is underway on FM20 which addresses a lot of issues, focusing on making the game a realistic and fun challenge, whilst getting rid of the silly stuff like Twitter and social media feeds. 

 

Is it too easy to rocket through the leagues from non-league to the premier league? Yes. But to be honest, it's nothing new, that's always been the case in previous FM's too. Granted, maybe it feels a little bit easier still this year, having just been promoted to the Championship with lowly Dulwich Hamlet after 4 back-to-back promotions. Could be just chance though, I've been quite lucky to find some great regens for next to no money from Northern Ireland and Boreham Wood (!). It's still a lot of fun though, and FM19 is definitely not the worst version.  

A bigger challenge is however my number 1 wish for FM20. 

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10 hours ago, Smh66 said:

FM19 will be long remembered as the worst version and there is a lot to fix. 

 

Haha really?? By who exactly? Plenty of people enjoying it from what I see. Every single year someone says it's 'the worst one yet' because they're either rubbish at it or they think it's too easy. In almost every single case where someone says it there's something dodgy going on in their save that happens to nobody else. 

But nevermind, if it's that bad you can always go back to previous versions, or wait for the next one. 

I would, however, also be very interested in seeing your save to see whether or not it's as genuine as you make it out to be....

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11 hours ago, Smh66 said:

FM19 will be long remembered as the worst version and there is a lot to fix.

I disagree. The only FM I've played more than FM19 is FM18, and I played 18 religiously. And I usually rank 1000 hrs each version.

Are there bugs? Yes. Balance issues? Yes. But so does all the other earlier versions as well.

That doesn't mean everyone have to agree. Hell, if you love FM17, then by all means play it! I'll stick with FM19 and keep on enjoying it, and certainly don't think it's any worse than other versions.

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9 hours ago, wattzy said:

Haha really?? By who exactly? Plenty of people enjoying it from what I see. Every single year someone says it's 'the worst one yet' because they're either rubbish at it or they think it's too easy. In almost every single case where someone says it there's something dodgy going on in their save that happens to nobody else. 

But nevermind, if it's that bad you can always go back to previous versions, or wait for the next one. 

I would, however, also be very interested in seeing your save to see whether or not it's as genuine as you make it out to be....

I am happy to upload my save game if I knew how to do it. Some advice please...

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yeah gegenpress is a joke tbh. having used 4-2-3-1 gegenpress for about 6 saves i've now started with a deeper 4-4-2 because it's at least somewhat realistic.

Edited by ajt
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On 21/03/2019 at 13:31, wattzy said:

So a semi-pro manager managing a Conference team was offered the France job? Course you did :thup:

Sounds like there's a few odd things happening in your save that aren't cropping up in others. You sure there isn't editing of some kind going on?

Actually I am also finding it very easy to get international jobs. In almost every save game I have (starting as semi pro and uefa c license) I will get a good international job (like Netherlands, Argentina etc) within the first 3 seasons. Getting good club jobs however is much much harder.

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