Jump to content

Unsure if ruling or bug


Recommended Posts

Unsure if this is a ruling or bug so wanted to get some clarity before posting. 

I just played a game in the betfred cup. In this competition you get a 4th sub if the game goes to extra time. 

In this game i had the brutal luck of making my 3rd and final sub in the 80th minute, only for a player to be stretchered off literally one minute later. Opposition piles on the pressure and equalizes and it finishes level. 

So this is now the debate point, I've now gained an extra sub. Ive got 10 men on the park due to injury but in the game I cannot bring somebody on for the injured player. Thus I can still make my 4th sub, but I'm forced to see out extra time with a man disadvantage due to injury. 

 

Can anyone clarify if this is a bug, or the way it would work in this situation in real life. If its a bug ill report it, if its a ruling then obvious as it is and horrible luck. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, FrazT said:

I am sure this was discussed before and the 4th sub can only be used in extra time and has to be a direct replacement

I'd be disappointed if this was the case especially given the reasoning for the 4th sub ruling being more competitive gameplay. 

Unsure what you mean by direct replacement tho as I was always under impression tactical subs were allowed with the 4th sub ruling 

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, FrazT said:

I am sure this was discussed before and the 4th sub can only be used in extra time and has to be a direct replacement

If a player has been withdrawn from the field due to injury they can still be substituted, AFAIK at the start of ET the 4th sub can come on for the injured player, if FM does not allow this then there is a UI bug that should have been fixed from last year.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it is because when taking a player off you have to officially tell the referee you are going down to 10 men (Because below a certain amount games get called off so you can't just have people leave the pitch), So the only actual way to prevent it is too keep the player on the pitch injured until a time where the 4th sub can be used 

Silly but true and i am surprised it has not been sorted yet in the rules, But a player exiting the pitch in minute 80 is not on the pitch at 91 minutes to be replaced

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, cris182 said:

I believe it is because when taking a player off you have to officially tell the referee you are going down to 10 men (Because below a certain amount games get called off so you can't just have people leave the pitch), So the only actual way to prevent it is too keep the player on the pitch injured until a time where the 4th sub can be used 

Silly but true and i am surprised it has not been sorted yet in the rules, But a player exiting the pitch in minute 80 is not on the pitch at 91 minutes to be replaced

That's not true, the injured player can return to the field of play at any time so they are avaialble to be substituted once extra-time starts & there is no need for them to be physcially on the pitch for this to happen.

What we have in FM is primarily a UI issue as once you press confirm to the forced tactical changes after a match ending injury the player ceases to exist as an active asset on the tactics screen, what needs to happen is they become selectable once ET starts to allow the user to swap them & place the 11th player back on the pitch to be assiged an position & role, the logic is failry straight forward but I suspect the method of implementation is more complex as the AI also needs to be aware they can make the additional substitition.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure of the Law around this situation IRL but:

A player con not exit, or enter the pitch without the Referee's permission unless forced to so so by momentum during game play. So when an injured player is taken off the pitch for treatment, it is done at thee referee's discretion, he is only allowed to return when signaled by the referee - it is not 'at any time'.

In the OP situation, I don;t know if this is IRL or not, but the injury before the end of normal has reduced a team to ten men, there may be a rule that when Extra Time is used as a match-decider, it has to be started with the players that ended the 90mins, ie: 10 men. 

Similar to a penalty shoot-out as match-decider. The only players that are allowed to take the penalties are the ones who were on the field of play at the final whistle - no further subs allowed.

So 'The Match' is the first 90 minutes. Extra Time is not part of 'the match' but simply a means to decide a winner. Penalties are not part of the Match or Extra Time, Simply the second method of deciding a winner if Extra Time failed to do so.

Like I say, I am not sure what the regs are IRL but that is what sounds like happening to me. Might simply be the ME/FM not differentiating properly between Match and Extra Time, but I am guessing it is like the Penalties rule - you can change a player who finished the 90minutes during ET, but can't introduce a new player without exchange during ET.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All that would happen is the team tell the ref they are makingf their 4th substitution for the player currently off the field receiving treatment for an injury as protocal for substitutions allow for players already of the field to be replaced, penalty shoot-out are different because the time of play has been ended rather than extended so for all intent the match is over & has ended in draw.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Barside said:

 penalty shoot-out are different because the time of play has been ended rather than extended so for all intent the match is over & has ended in draw.

Doesn't the same apply to Extra Time? A football match consists of two equal halves, of 45 mins duration according to the LotG - so Extra Time to decide a winner is also outside the 'match' and is a decider, not part of the match.

In the Good Book extra time and penalties are not covered in the Laws of the Game other than as methods to determine a winner.

Like I say, I'm not sure, but in my dealings in the past with FIFA and interpretations it sounds plausible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem is we won't know whether you should be allowed to later sub an injury player using your fourth sub until the event occurs IRL (and considering the 4th sub utterly confused the media when it came in, the first time this happens they'll likely go crazy).

The main issue seems to be there is nothing in the rules that states how long you have to complete your sub after a player has left the field, they didn't bother to add any clarification when adding the fourth sub rule, the best I can tell you wouldn't be able to replace a player injured in the first half as subs need to be completed before the next half starts but otherwise it could go either way;

The Fourth Sub rules can be found here: https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/General/02/47/85/97/2478597_DOWNLOAD.pdf

(won't let me paste them into the forum).

Link to post
Share on other sites

2nd para, page 5:

"the procedure must be completed before the match restarts".

In this case, the match has ended, then the decider has started before procedure has been completed.

It does need clarification though, and most commentators need a slap in the face wit ha wet kipper for their knowledge of the Laws.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...