FM19 Athletic Club - Aupa!

[maccataq]

Update from me - not played much lately hence I've been quiet on here.

Season 23/24 - we are 2nd in La Liga to Atletico on GD. Barcelona are 3pts behind us but I have to go to them soon and I have a dreadful record against them so not looking forward to that one. On the whole, happy with how the season is going but having a few injuries. Herrera got a dislocated shoulder; Muniain just got injured again after coming back from a different injury and now my top striker got injured for 4-5 weeks. Got a couple more too but players starting to come back.

Managed to sign Oyarzabal from Sociedad! They got relegated so I guess that made things a bit easier. His attribute spread is brilliant, his lowest value is 10 for positioning, 3 attributes at 11 and everything else is higher. Bought him with improving my RW position (even though he is an ML inverted winger naturally) as I don't have much depth there beyond Williams. However, he can play pretty much anywhere across midfield and does well as an AP out of central midfield so that is helpful since Roberto Torres retired and I moved on Vesga last season so we are a bit thin in CM supplemented by some youngsters.

Champions League has been a bit of a disaster this season. I don't usually do this but I ended up promising Unai Simon we'd get to the latter stages of the competition because I blocked a move for him to go to Real but now I might be resigned to losing him unless we can get out of a tough group. 

Opening game at home to Milan we drew 2-2. Then we went to Schalke and Arsenal losing 3-2 in both. We were especially unlucky at Arsenal where we led twice but in both of these games individual errors cost us including the concession of an injury time penalty at Arsenal. We then needed to beat Arsenal at home in the reverse fixture having only picked up 1 point but we drew 0-0 but could have been worse as Simon saved a penalty from Witsel (who scored the winner from the spot in the reverse fixture). After 4 games we sat bottom with 2 points with a trip to Milan up next...Oyarzabal scored a screamer and we defended brilliantly limiting their chances. We dominated possession and left with a priceless 1-0 win. Arsenal did us a favour and won 3-0 at Schalke so the group looks like this:

Still bottom but a home win against Schalke would mean Milan have to win away to Arsenal to qualify, although Arsenal have already won the group so may play a weakened team. If we draw and Milan lose we'll finish 3rd based on the head to heads with Schalke going through! So basically it's must win and hope Milan fail to win.

Wish me luck!

[Jean0987654321]

6 hours ago, maccataq said:

Enjoyed reading your update. Some bold sales there but hopefully your youngsters can step up! Have you managed to win La Liga yet? Once you can get your strikers firing consistently you will see your results become more consistent.

Not yet. Have been to cup finals and one Europa League final but close but no cigar. Hopefully, the trophies come.

[maccataq]

16 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Not yet. Have been to cup finals and one Europa League final but close but no cigar. Hopefully, the trophies come.

Yeah I've lost 2 cup finals and one super cup although I won a supercup also. Just a matter of time!

[maccataq]

On 18/07/2019 at 14:49, maccataq said:

Update from me - not played much lately hence I've been quiet on here.

Season 23/24 - we are 2nd in La Liga to Atletico on GD. Barcelona are 3pts behind us but I have to go to them soon and I have a dreadful record against them so not looking forward to that one. On the whole, happy with how the season is going but having a few injuries. Herrera got a dislocated shoulder; Muniain just got injured again after coming back from a different injury and now my top striker got injured for 4-5 weeks. Got a couple more too but players starting to come back.

Managed to sign Oyarzabal from Sociedad! They got relegated so I guess that made things a bit easier. His attribute spread is brilliant, his lowest value is 10 for positioning, 3 attributes at 11 and everything else is higher. Bought him with improving my RW position (even though he is an ML inverted winger naturally) as I don't have much depth there beyond Williams. However, he can play pretty much anywhere across midfield and does well as an AP out of central midfield so that is helpful since Roberto Torres retired and I moved on Vesga last season so we are a bit thin in CM supplemented by some youngsters.

Champions League has been a bit of a disaster this season. I don't usually do this but I ended up promising Unai Simon we'd get to the latter stages of the competition because I blocked a move for him to go to Real but now I might be resigned to losing him unless we can get out of a tough group. 

Opening game at home to Milan we drew 2-2. Then we went to Schalke and Arsenal losing 3-2 in both. We were especially unlucky at Arsenal where we led twice but in both of these games individual errors cost us including the concession of an injury time penalty at Arsenal. We then needed to beat Arsenal at home in the reverse fixture having only picked up 1 point but we drew 0-0 but could have been worse as Simon saved a penalty from Witsel (who scored the winner from the spot in the reverse fixture). After 4 games we sat bottom with 2 points with a trip to Milan up next...Oyarzabal scored a screamer and we defended brilliantly limiting their chances. We dominated possession and left with a priceless 1-0 win. Arsenal did us a favour and won 3-0 at Schalke so the group looks like this:

Still bottom but a home win against Schalke would mean Milan have to win away to Arsenal to qualify, although Arsenal have already won the group so may play a weakened team. If we draw and Milan lose we'll finish 3rd based on the head to heads with Schalke going through! So basically it's must win and hope Milan fail to win.

Wish me luck!

Well we just attacked Schalke and we thrashed them 5-0! Arsenal did me a favour and beat Milan 1-0 so we sneak through by winning our last 2 games. We face Juventus in the 2nd round and they topped a group including Barcelona so it's going to be tough!

[maccataq]

Is it just in my save or do Valencia seem to produce Basque newgens?

Ok there has only been 2 in my save that I know of - I have already bought one of them and now I just got asked about whether I was interested in signing a player and I looked at him and he was not on my shortlist (no idea how my scouts didn't find him first) and turned out he was Basque having come from the Valencia academy. Looks good too so getting him scouted.

[dothestrand]

On 21/07/2019 at 21:59, maccataq said:

Is it just in my save or do Valencia seem to produce Basque newgens?

Ok there has only been 2 in my save that I know of - I have already bought one of them and now I just got asked about whether I was interested in signing a player and I looked at him and he was not on my shortlist (no idea how my scouts didn't find him first) and turned out he was Basque having come from the Valencia academy. Looks good too so getting him scouted.

Never seen Valencia with them, with Barca and Real produce them, which is annoying as they'll only sell them on huge release fees!

[zlatanera]

@maccataq @dothestrand Valencia definitely produce them yeah, I've seen it on a few of my saves. Man City do as well because of their DoF. Espanyol have tended to produce a good Basque striker every 3-5 years in-game for the past 3 versions of FM for some reason.

[TOMetz]

On 21/07/2019 at 22:59, maccataq said:

Is it just in my save or do Valencia seem to produce Basque newgens?

Ok there has only been 2 in my save that I know of - I have already bought one of them and now I just got asked about whether I was interested in signing a player and I looked at him and he was not on my shortlist (no idea how my scouts didn't find him first) and turned out he was Basque having come from the Valencia academy. Looks good too so getting him scouted.

Seems logical to me. IRL Athletic seems to find players that comply with the signing policy as far as Romania or South America. Has anyone ever had any regens in South America, come to think of it?

[Pavi]

6 hours ago, TOMetz said:

Seems logical to me. IRL Athletic seems to find players that comply with the signing policy as far as Romania or South America. Has anyone ever had any regens in South America, come to think of it?

Well, actually they don't go as far as Romania or South America, but rather Romanians and South Americans come to them.

That is to say that the IRL policy include anyone grown up football-wise in the greater Basque country area. Therefore, Iñaki Williams is eligible despite not having any Basque roots, while players like Otamendi or Higuaín are not even considered, regardless the fact that they clearly have Basque ancestors/origins. It is more a "cultural" nationality policy and not a biological one. Thanks God BTW as it would just be racism otherwise.

Actually there is a lot of uproar among the fans as they just signed a German grown player for the women's team, whose mother is from Vizcaya but who didn't grow up there, Bibiane Schulze.

In FM19 it would be difficult to replicate the policy and that is why you can actually sign any Spanish player until they're 16, to simulate someone "grown football-wise" in Basque country.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Pavi

[Pavi]

Just few words to say that I abandoned my old save long time ago as in the meantime I moved to another country and change job and only recently started played again. After having done a couple of saves over in Germany I just started yesterday a new save with Athletic. I think is a good save to restart in this weird period when the new season started. Will try to post some updates.

But mainly want to say kudos to this thread, just updated the last couple of months of posts. Well done everyone, some amazing progress there.

[maccataq]

I know other clubs can produce Basque players, it was just curious that Valencia produced a couple in relatively quick succession. I'm aware that their policy is somewhat nuanced and they won't buy players based on tenuous links. @Pavi - some good insights, I know some think of the policy as racist but I've never thought of it that way and indeed, I believe the policy was brought in because they were criticised for not exclusively selecting local players. The relaxation of the rule to include players who have had their footballing education in the Basque country has probably helped to dispel any ideas that the policy is racist.

Good luck with your new save Pavi - look forward to hearing how you get on!

[maccataq]

I'm still plodding along with my save. Keen to keep it going and just about to embark on season 24/25 but also considering switching to another save for a while.

Anyway, my last season brought about a record points tally again but still not good enough to win La Liga. Klopp's Barcelona are formidable in my save so winning the league again is going to be tough whilst he is around but slowly but surely my newgens are developing into the players that can take us to the next level.

Got to my 3rd Copa del Rey final (lost the first 2 vs Atletico & Barcelona respectively) and we faced Barcelona! We took the lead in the first half, could have had a 2nd but were pegged back in the 2nd half. Barcelona usually beat us and there have been a number of occasions when we have played well and they have been the ones to score the goal to break our hearts (especially last time we played the cup final) but not this time! Mikel Oyarzabal, injured in the run in only made the bench and I threw him on, telling him he could make the difference and he only went and thrashed one home from about 12 yards. I've never been so delighted to just win a domestic cup!

[Pavi]

21 minutes ago, maccataq said:

I know other clubs can produce Basque players, it was just curious that Valencia produced a couple in relatively quick succession. I'm aware that their policy is somewhat nuanced and they won't buy players based on tenuous links. @Pavi - some good insights, I know some think of the policy as racist but I've never thought of it that way and indeed, I believe the policy was brought in because they were criticised for not exclusively selecting local players. The relaxation of the rule to include players who have had their footballing education in the Basque country has probably helped to dispel any ideas that the policy is racist.

Good luck with your new save Pavi - look forward to hearing how you get on!

@maccataq I must say that I've never for a second thought that you or anyone else here was classifying the policy as racist and I don't think it is neither. Perhaps, I expressed myself wrongly, my intervention was actually to defend the current policy of putting cultural and football ties ahead of any notion of "certified-origin". It is obvious that in FM, you cannot reflect this at 100%.

Sorry if I sounded polemic and keep up the good times with your save!

Edited August 12, 2019 by Pavi

[maccataq]

14 minutes ago, Pavi said:

@maccataq I must say that I've never for a second thought that you or anyone else here was classifying the policy as racist and I don't think it is neither. Perhaps, I expressed myself wrongly, my intervention was actually to defend the current policy of putting cultural and football ties ahead of any notion of "certified-origin". It is obvious that in FM, you cannot reflect this at 100%.

Sorry if I sounded polemic and keep up the good times with your save!

No, not at all, I wasn't suggesting you were, I was just adding to your point about it not being racist as I've heard people in the past try to label it as such.

[TOMetz]

Well it was time to start a new Athletic Career in FM19

Next to my love for Athletic, I was sick of playing 4-1-2-3 with every single other team, while still getting results. A save with Athletic where I'd try out some new things combined with the strong focus on youth and development, should be more than enough entertainment until FM20 drops.

A couple games into the 18/19 season and we're looking pretty good. You'll notice I played a ton of pre season friendlies. This was necessary to try out some new formations and tactics which I've never used before. 

 

Although all of the pre season matches were won, I struggled to really dominate and create a constant flow of chances. Maybe because I changed too much too quickly, but nevertheless I stuck to the plan I had with this group of players and headed in the first match which immediately was the Vasco Derby. A solid second half saw us rise 2-0 and Real pulled one back in what was a very equal and entertaining match. Barcelona was next and here I managed to dominate the second half and score. They equalised on a penalty so we can be proud of our performance none the less. Had a good run after this and already we're far higher up the table than I anticipated due to the lack of thorough success in preseason. 

Depth Chart

GK: Unai Simon, Alex Remiro, Iago Herrerin (inj.)

RWB: Oscar De Marcos, Ander Capa

CB: Iñigo Martinez, Yeray, Unai Nuñez, Mikel San Jose, Peru Nolaskoain

LWB: Yuri, Mikel Balenziaga

BWM/CMd (or the static '6' position): Ander Iturraspe, Dani Garcia, Mikel San Jose (love the versatility and aerial capabilities of this guy), Peru Nolaskoain (I have a thing for him IRL and in FM)

DLP/APM/MEZ (or the more dynamic '8' position): Beñat, Raul Garcia, Oihan Sancet, Markel Susaeta (with him aging, he might be of use on the central midfield, but it's an experiment)

AMR: Iñaki Williams, Markel Susaeta (he's outstanding as a Raumdeuter), Ibai Gomez

AML: Iker Muniain, Ibai Gomez, Iñigo Córdoba

ST: Aritz Aduriz, Iñaki Williams, Iñigo Córdoba, Kenan Kodro, Gorka Guruzeta (occasional run-out)

Tactics

In my opinion, Athletic is very suited for playing with a back three with three CB's all worthy of a first team spot and solid backups. What's more, Yeray and especially Martinez are great as a Libero on attack, one of my favorite roles in FM19 if you manage to unleash it. Furthermore I was inspired by Pep's 3-4-3 at City, hence the IWB, but opted for a version with a different take on player movement. I tried a variation with two strikers instead of AML and AMR but the player potential is much more suited for wingplay, although it has evolved to @maccataq's 5-3-2 which is on page 6 I think. The third tactic is a 4-2-3-1, also for the reasons of highly suited player potential and in case of injuries or suspensions among the back three. 

But this is the main gig:

Starting from the back:

Martinez is a very suitable Libero on attack with a CD and BPD in cover next to him. He also fills in the 'tactical fouler' role in Pep's system, although in defence, the Libero will drop back a lot deeper to form a backline of three. In attack, he pushes up to right behind the central midfield two and, thanks to Iñigo's player traits, send long through balls to unlock the wings.

One of my fullbacks will always be an inverted wingback. In this case, it's De Marcos. In attack, he will sit in the gap left by Beñat (or whoever plays on the 8 spot). Even though Beñat is a DLP, one of his traits is 'Arrives late in opponents half'. Thanks to an IWB, we keep one guy extra in the engine room. The space left out wide is a risk I'm willing to take with fairly paced BPD Yeray who can clean up.

I fancy Yuri going up and over IF Muniain since he's got a powerful shot and often finds himself within range. 

Aduriz is a Target Man in support since it's one of the only roles that doesn't have 'move into channels' hard coded in them. If I allow him to, then he finds himself offside at least five times per game. If Williams plays up top, he plays as an AF although I'm thinking of changing it to a PF since his speed is a weapon while charging at defenders.

So a fair bit of movement in possession, mainly from the midfield on. The players seem to get the hang of it.

Transfers

Lekue, Rico and Lopez are on loan for the moment. 

I brought in Leo from Barcelona and Iker Losada from Celta De Vigo for the youth team. Although here I've read that it's a lot more purist to refrain from signing young Spanish players, so from now on I'll do that. It only increases the challenge

I'll be looking to sell Kodro and might TL Raul Garcia since he's such a strain on the wage budget and I don't really have a perfect place for him in my team. Maybe he'll perform well as a BBM on the '8' position. There's a lot of interest for Susaeta and Iturraspe as well. They can go for around 20 million a piece.

I'm keeping an eye on the development and situation of these players, hoping to reel some of them in. Some of them are realistic, others are options for the future or we'll need exceptional luck. The players in bold are targets for the January transfer window 18/19 if some players are sold. Aymeric Laporte, Alvaro Odriozola, Ander Herrera, Mikel Merino, Roberto López (At Sociedad C, probablity of 5 star potential this time!), Giorgian De Arrascaeta, Ruben Pardo, Jonathan Urretaviscaya, Igor Zubeldia, Jonathan Espericueta, Antonio Otegui. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by TOMetz

[Pavi]

@TOMetz

Nice to see you experimenting, I have just started a save myself and one of the tactic I was toying with is a 352. As for your retraining of Susaeta I used him mainly as an AP in the AMR slot (same as López) in a classic 433. But during my experimenting I have used Muniain as a Mezzala and put some nice performances.

[dothestrand]

19 hours ago, TOMetz said:

I'm keeping an eye on the development and situation of these players, hoping to reel some of them in. Some of them are realistic, others are options for the future or we'll need exceptional luck. The players in bold are targets for the January transfer window 18/19 if some players are sold. Aymeric Laporte, Alvaro Odriozola, Ander Herrera, Mikel Merino, Roberto López (At Sociedad C, probablity of 5 star potential this time!), Giorgian De Arrascaeta, Ruben Pardo, Jonathan Urretaviscaya, Igor Zubeldia, Jonathan Espericueta, Antonio Otegui. 

@TOMetz Great to hear you've joined us and started a save. I'm about ten years into an Athletic Club save 

I would expect Merino (check the release fee, and he will go), Pardo (you might have to let him move to another club first) and Zubeldia to become available within the next season or so, which is great as your CM options reduce very quickly! 

I've had Odriozola sign from Real before. Herrera you should get if Man Utd list him, but they have this annoying habit of extending his contract for a year until he gets too old for you to sign.

Hopefully you get some good regens, or other Basque regens from Real Sociedad, Eibar, Osasuna, Alaves etc. coming through - usually 2-3 each season you can sign who'll have first team potential.

[TOMetz]

Thanks for the advice @dothestrand, Merino has become a priority indeed as Beñat isn't performing as well as in my older Athletic saves and Raul Garcia is pulling a Bosman on me and will only leave on a free transfer at the end of the month. Iturraspe is filling in nicely but I wonder how much longer he will hold that level. 

The good news is that Sociedad are battling relegation almost midway through the season. Hopefully a lower morale in Merino could see him switch to the other Basque side which is currently shuttling between 3rd and 4th spot 

[dothestrand]

11 minutes ago, TOMetz said:

Thanks for the advice @dothestrand, Merino has become a priority indeed as Beñat isn't performing as well as in my older Athletic saves and Raul Garcia is pulling a Bosman on me and will only leave on a free transfer at the end of the month. Iturraspe is filling in nicely but I wonder how much longer he will hold that level. 

The good news is that Sociedad are battling relegation almost midway through the season. Hopefully a lower morale in Merino could see him switch to the other Basque side which is currently shuttling between 3rd and 4th spot 

Merino will probably have a release fee of around 19m. I'd hold all your money back for that, and it might be the second season until you can afford that. But he will join. With Real Sociedad, there are some guys who will never join no matter what; Zaldua and Elustondo (although you're generally OK in defence anyway), and Oyarzabal has never shown any interest in signing over ten years (and he is still excellent into his thirties), but some saves here have had success in signing him. I think the general gist is that the first 2-3 seasons will be your toughest but you should definitely be getting European and maybe CL football. Then hopefully your regens develop by the time you phase out Susaeta, De Marcos, etc. Garcia leaving never bothered me much as I don't play an AMC and he's only moderately effective as a CM or backup striker. The 100k saving is a bonus. Hopefully Sancet/Nolaskoian are good in your game. Alvaro Nunez, a RB in your C or u19s, is good in mine. 

[TOMetz]

Well, I started out with a transfer budget of 23 million euro, so that should be enough to get Merino moving. I'll also be looking to offload some deadweight to free up more funds and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to stop De Marcos or Iturraspe making big money moves to China at the end of the season due to enormous interest in them. So money shouldn't be an issue. I started my save with the transfer window open, maybe that's why. 

Sancet and Nolaskoain are both very highly rated in terms of PA. Also Juan Artola, Ruben Azcona, Unai Vencedor, Alvaro Nuñez indeed, Dani Vivian, Jon Sillero and Gorka Guruzeta will one day be first team regulars as they all have a guaranteed 3 star PA minimum. Must've been lucky with some of the variable PA's because 9 youth/reserve players of which the majority could be brought in by the start of season two is exceptional in any Athletic save I've ever done.

[Pavi]

My heart is broken..

[Pavi]

I am through the half season and things are looking good, I am also experimenting with this tactic with great success

 

@TOMetz I stole your idea of using Susaeta as a Raumdeuter, amazing how efficient he is at that role. Thanks!

[maccataq]

@TOMetz

On 13/08/2019 at 12:45, TOMetz said:

although it has evolved to @maccataq's 5-3-2 which is on page 6 I think. The third tactic is a 4-2-3-1, also for the reasons of highly suited player potential and in case of injuries or suspensions among the back three. 

It wasn't mine, I think I just quoted @bowieinspace's post which had this in. I can never adopt a back 3 formation but I often have them as my 3rd formation. I just love wingers / AMCs so getting them both in is a struggle.

On 13/08/2019 at 12:45, TOMetz said:

'll be looking to sell Kodro and might TL Raul Garcia since he's such a strain on the wage budget and I don't really have a perfect place for him in my team. Maybe he'll perform well as a BBM on the '8' position.

Raul Garcia ended up being a BBM for me and was in my title winning team plus also could be a DLP. I know you are playing off a slightly later database than me though since you have Kodro and Ibai so not sure if RG is less effective. What I would say though is he is worth keeping from his leadership and mentoring perspective. Benat too.

Check out Jorge Herrando and Roberto Torres both of Osasuna. The former will only be young at the start and may well have variable potential but turned out good for me. The latter I picked up for a few million and did well in a BBM or DLP role.

I eventually managed to sign Oyarzabal after Real Sociedad got relegated - what a player he is! Can't be many players in the game with a better attribute spread than him!

[bowieinspace]

1 hour ago, maccataq said:

@TOMetz

It wasn't mine, I think I just quoted @bowieinspace's post which had this in. I can never adopt a back 3 formation but I often have them as my 3rd formation. I just love wingers / AMCs so getting them both in is a struggle.

Good to hear it's working for you @TOMetz. I love the idea of a 3 at the back but I never fully commit to it to be honest. I'm too much of a 4-3-3-/4-1-4-1 disciple to stick with it long term (unless I'm doing a save with the specific intention of exploring a tactical concept). I did very much enjoy the 3-5-2 at the start of my Athletic save, but as noted somewhere back on a previous page I moved away from it to rotate between just 2 formations. Athletic this year with Nunez, Yeray and Martinez are really well set up to do it though.

[TOMetz]

Cheers, lads!

@Pavi So glad to hear Markel isn't just deuting the Raum for me. Interesting tactic too! Do you manage to keep Nuñez happy by rotating hard?

@maccataq I know the struggle, I do like my wingers too, and while my 541 with wing-backs and wide AM's does work, there are times that my midfield is simply overrun or just doesn't create. It's so hard to find a good balance with those two lone central midfielders. I've switched from a BWM and a BBM to a BWM and a DLP or a AP, tried CMd and CMa with player specific PI's, ... (If anyone has any specific tips on how to optimize my CM's from my previous tactics screenshot, feel free!) Could be the quality I have on hand right now. I'd like to see how this works with players like Merino and Herrera. 

@bowieinspace I do agree it's a difficult system to create the same consistency with as I have with countless saves with different teams in a 4123. But it gets so boring over time. If there's one team that is fit for three at the back, it must be Athletic  The tough choice is either exploiting your quality wingers or stacking the midfield. I still haven't found the right way here although recently I've started using a 3511WB with Guruzeta as a shadow striker behind Aritz as a TMs or Iñaki as a PFa combined with Muniain as the MEZ on the left. There's some potential here.

More on this real soon.

Edited August 14, 2019 by TOMetz

[maccataq]

6 minutes ago, TOMetz said:

It's so hard to find a good balance with those two lone central midfielders. I've switched from a BWM and a BBM to a BWM and a DLP or a AP, tried CMd and CMa with player specific PI's, ... (If anyone has any specific tips on how to optimize my CM's from my previous tactics screenshot, feel free!) Could be the quality I have on hand right now. I'd like to see how this works with players like Merino and Herrera. 

I like to play DLP (D) and BBM in my midfield 2. Merino/Herrera are the best 2 you could get here but Benat/Garcia is a good combo. I sometimes also like to play an AP (S) in place of the BBM in some cases, usually at home against teams I expect to beat. Oyarzabal is good in this role but others can play it too. Sancet is a good Mezzala as an alternative.

[Pavi]

An encouraging first season for me as we managed to qualify for the UCL, for a brief spell in February I was even title contender fighting alongside Atletico. But came April and a terrible spell of three losses and two draws. Barcelona, who weren't looking particularly consistent the first six months, went on a four months winning spree and secure the title by only one point. I loved the fact that Réal looked poor all season, we beat them twice, and didn't qualified for the UCL. Must be weird to watch los blancos in Europa League against a side like Videoton!

We actually filled the trophy cabinet with the welcome addition of the club's 24th Copa del Rey. The final was a tense match resolved by a Muniain's screamer at 118' in extra-time, when I was already preparing to suffer during penalty shoot-outs. That also increased a lot managerial support from both players and board. There is the weird issue that with new database where the elections which Elizegi won IRL are held only to have Elizegi replaced. Weird. Anyway, I am pretty happy on how things went and am excited about the second season, in which I will have better control on who to keep in the first team.

In terms of performances, Williams did OK-ish as a Pressing Forward netting 12, but he also went on unimpressive performances runs. Aduriz has decided to retire and I am planning to promote Guruzeta who, at least in my game, seems a better option than Villalibre, Córdoba or Kodro. The highlight was the defence, we conceded only 23 in the Liga. Yeray, Martínez and Núñez are really solid option. Remiro did amazingly between the posts as well.

As for transfers during the season, having decided to go the purist way and signing only Basque players I only added Iván Martínez from Osasuna. He's just 17 but probably will be the next big Basque keeper available. It is nice to have him so early in the save as I can mentor him and guide his development.

But for next season I already secured several key arrivals, including David García as a centre-back, the return of Aketxe and the one and only Mikel Merino! Since January I've kept scouting him until his interest for a move finally changed to "extremely interested" in May when we confirmed UCL qualification, I hence immediately activated his release clause. 

The best two newgen of my intake are two strikers, both very promising but the rest, alas, not as much....hopefully will improve next season.

One last happy note, our B Team got promoted to Segunda, I was actually thinking of signing some players at small fees just to ensure they stay up and to complement our youngsters. It is great for their development that they will be able to play at such competitive level.

Aupa Athletic!

 

[Pavi]

Sh**t!

Finished posting the above, clicked continue on FM and Arsenal have just met Yeray's release clause!

I offered him a new contract straight away....let's hope he decides to stay...

All well what ends well!

Edited August 15, 2019 by Pavi

[Pavi]

A sad moment..

[maccataq]

1 hour ago, Pavi said:

A sad moment..

Sad indeed - he's retiring in real life at the end of the season. Will be interesting to see how they replace him. I think as we've all probably found, we've relied on newgens but not sure if Kodro, Villalibre or Guruzeta are up to it. Maybe they could move Williams up top.

Edit: Looks like they are playing Williams up top tonight against Barca! 0-0 after 52 mins - let's hope they can give Barca a bad start to the season

Edited August 16, 2019 by maccataq

[Pavi]

58 minutes ago, maccataq said:

Sad indeed - he's retiring in real life at the end of the season. Will be interesting to see how they replace him. I think as we've all probably found, we've relied on newgens but not sure if Kodro, Villalibre or Guruzeta are up to it. Maybe they could move Williams up top.

Edit: Looks like they are playing Williams up top tonight against Barca! 0-0 after 52 mins - let's hope they can give Barca a bad start to the season

HAVE YOU SEEN THE GOAL HE JUST SCORED AGAINST BARCELONA?!?! OMG! He's a true modern legend of Athletic.

IRL, they just renewed Williams with a contract up to 2028! Probably the longest ever contract at this level. 

In my second season now and Williams and Guruzeta are doing fine actually....we will see.

[maccataq]

18 minutes ago, Pavi said:

HAVE YOU SEEN THE GOAL HE JUST SCORED AGAINST BARCELONA?!?! OMG! He's a true modern legend of Athletic.

Incredible!!! What a goal!

 

18 minutes ago, Pavi said:

IRL, they just renewed Williams with a contract up to 2028!

Great news! I read something suggesting he was on for a record tonight for distance covered!

Edit: Apparently he ran 10.2km in the first half alone! Pure gratitude for the big contract.

Edited August 16, 2019 by maccataq

[Pavi]

2 hours ago, maccataq said:

Incredible!!! What a goal!

What a way to start his last season!

2 hours ago, maccataq said:

Great news! I read something suggesting he was on for a record tonight for distance covered!

Edit: Apparently he ran 10.2km in the first half alone! Pure gratitude for the big contract.

I was home watching the game and at half time Spanish TV showed the stats of his distance covered and I actually thought it must have been a misreading. The issue though is that for me he should dose his effort better to be fresher in the one v. one following a counter.

[maccataq]

10 hours ago, Pavi said:

The issue though is that for me he should dose his effort better to be fresher in the one v. one following a counter.

Yeah that's fair. I can't imagine he'll put that effort in every week though.

[Branst23]

Update Season 1:

The yearly Bilbao save started later in the FM year than normal this time around - mainly after watching them beat West Ham in the BetFred Cup!

League Final position

Really happy with how we did in the league picking up the Champions League qualification will be huge for the cash flow. I think next season it will be hard to repeat and the squad depth will need to be improved due to the volume of games.

 

Copa Del Rey

We managed to get to the final and managed to knock Real Madrid out on the way to the final. Unfortunately the final was against league winners Athletico who won 3-0.

Extremely happy with the season and will be a challenge to build on this with a £10m transfer budget for next season. I have bought in Monreal for 650k but any further improvements will be tough.

 

AUPA ATHLETIC

[TOMetz]

21 hours ago, Branst23 said:

 

Glad to see I'm not the only one who plays three games in a row against the same teams from the top tier when you're also drawn against them in the cup. Seriously, this happens once per every decent cup run. 

And yes, that Aduriz goal was pure beauty. Along with the reaction from his teammates. They adore him. What a player. Let's hope we all enjoy his last season.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TOMetz

[maccataq]

Great start @Branst23 - very strong finish to the season just a shame about the cup final. I lost the cup final to Atletico in my first season too. In fact, it took me until 2024 to win it at my 3rd final attempt - always feels like a very winnable competition but it seems guaranteed that you will face 2 of the big 3 if you get to the final.

 

[bowieinspace]

I'm back on my Athletic save after some time off the game, and a fun stint doing some tactical experiments. Currrently about 12 games in to the 2023/24 season with a new look system using inverted wing backs. Will update around Christmas time  

[bowieinspace]

Hey guys, just reposting the below from a post I made in a thread on the tactics forum. I'm using a system as follows:

SK (S), two inverted wing backs on support, two BPD's with a half back in front of them. Two wide midfielders with lots of PI's, a creative attacking midfielder (trequartista or AP(A) and a pressing forward attack. It's a very similar system to the creator of the thread on the tactics forum, except some differences. I was working on a very similar system, however made adjustments based on his work revolving around tempo and mentality, while also moving one of my CM's into the AM strata. I've posted a load of examples below of IWB's interacting with the half back and CBs and how this works while playing the ball out and in various transitions. This is the tactic I'm using with my Athletic side right now so thought I'd share this here. The original thread is entitled Ajax Champagne Football or similar to that, it's worth checking out.

 

 

Interestingly i hadn't utilised any PI's on the inverted wingbacks and I think that forms a major point of difference. I wanted my inverted full backs to come inside and basically form a 3 man line with the half back when attacking. When the transition happens, I didn't want them so far from their position that they couldn't get back. I agree that with the get further forward PI included, if they are always in and around the box, but able to do super human things to get back into their defensive shape that's a bigger issue! I suppose on an attacking mentality they are more likely to go forwards anyway. Also worth noting that one of my IWB's I've used has a get further forward trait, but I've used other players in the same role and had similar outcomes, but I will definitely keep a close on eye this.

Some notes and photos from goals in my last match:

Playing against Real Betis, they are utilising a 4-1-4-1. We conceded an early goal but came back to win 4-1. Worth noting their formation as they aren't using AMR's/AML's

Goal 1:

Here we are looking at the teams position at the moment we regain possession. Inverted wingbacks are sitting narrow but outside of the CB's, with the half back (7) sitting in a pretty deep DM position, BBM midfielder (at this point of the game, 8- Herrera) slightly in front.

A few seconds later on, Nunez has regained the ball, laid it off to the IWB on the right (Odriozola) forming a great triangle to play the ball out from the line. The IWB's and half back forming the perfect set up for what I wanted.

Odriozola, rather than playing it inside to the half back, saw the run of the WM (A) and played a through ball in to space. You can see the IWB's, half back and BBM effectively forming a bit of a diamond. I'd usually expect the BBM to be further forward here, but taking him out of the equation, the IWB's and Half back are forming a nice midfield 3. They have left one up, occupying a space in the middle but realistically if they won the ball soon here, the ball is extremely unlikely to get to their CF.

Shot is taken here by Muniain (trequartista) after our cross from the right is partially cleared by Mandi. You can see the IWB's are sitting compact near the CB's due to the lack of threat wide, and the half back in a good position to receive any clearances in the middle.

Goal 2:

Just the one image to show here. We've won a throw in down the right and it's been played short to Nico Williams. The two CB's are pushed super high, covering their CF who is deep to get numbers in defence. The IWB's...one just took the throw in so is super wide. The other (Odriozola) is set next to the BBM (28, Sancet who came on as a sub), while the half back is closer to the throw in taker (now Herrera, 8). The two in the box are the trequartista and the right midfielder. 

Goal 3:

Defensive positioning. They won the ball in their own half and played it out from the back, our IWB's have had enough time to form a back 4 with the half back sitting in front. You can see also how deep the right midfielder is sitting as well, which I think even with the PI's is something the WM does better than a W. Herrera (8) playing half back has seen the opportunity to close Jahanbakhsh and has done so, he wins the ball right after this screenshot. We make two quick passes (both forward), the second being a lofted ball to try to release the CF. he's being closely marked by their number 17 though so the ball comes to nothing...

Their CB (Ruiz) however makes a poor headed clearance, straight to our CF who dropped off realising he couldn't win the ball initially. He hits it first time into the corner. You can see the IWB's and half back have formed the perfect line. Their wide midfielders due to the speed of the transition are still relatively high up the pitch, but the IWB's are close enough to deal with a better clearance. They could have gone right to the byline and caused us more issues if a clearance to the flanks happened as you've noted in your posts!

Last goal was a penalty so will ignore.

Now on to another game, this time against a more attacking team (Napoli, Champions League game), playing with AMR/AML's...our goals (4) were one pen, two corners and the 4th was from open play. I'm not going to focus on our goals rather our defensive positioning, which is more interesting against a team playing two wide forwards.

I watched through large sections of the game on replay to reassess what was happening. They did create one excellent chance where our CB's were split wide (GK was playing a ball out aiming for the IWB who was pushing up the flank ahead of the CB). It was intercepted and a through ball was played to their CF. The half back was with him but hesitated, releasing the CF who should have scored, but keeper saved it. That'll happen occassionally with this system so no major concerns.

This is the moment here, their number 24 hussles across and intercepts the pass before our IWB (Lopez) can receive it. You can see the half back is positioned nicely but then he loses his man, 24 plays a through ball to 32 who misses. Ideal positioning for playing the ball out, CB's wide with the HB deep, but we get caught out and the HB doesn't read the game well enough. Keeper should have distributed to the wide right CB!

This one here is a defensive transtion. We have just lost the ball and Azpilicueta has picked it up. You can see the IWB's inside forming a midfield line with the BBM...they are pushed quite far up, but because the half back has formed a back 3, the CB's are wide covering the flanks and this is the usual image I see from my defence in transition. I generally see situations where we will only commit the HB and inverted wing backs forward when the opposition 11 are all sitting deep behind the ball. However in games like this where they are more likely to attack, the HB sits deeper and forms a back 3 regularly, allowing the CB's to cover any wide counter attack threat. There's obviously a risk here that the ball could be hoofed quickly to their CF though, which is a weakness of the system when the offside trap is not sprung quickly enough. However, the positioning of the CB's and IWB's is great.

Here we are in attack, pushed quite high, I like this positioning. We have our two CB's covering their lone striker, with our IWB's and half back forming a deep midfield 3 which spreads wide enough given the ball has just come from a throw in taken by Lopez. If they put a man out on their wide right, they would be free for a counter attack...however, we do still have a spare CB and if the ball was cleared to their right flank, they would slide over with 4 marking their 9, and our other CB coming across to press their right winger. However if they left a man wide out there (7 is their AMR for reference) we'd have a potential overload at their back post. We basically force them to sit in.

 

I searched through the whole game to find situations where they could exploit us out wide, but due to the half back dropping in and the CB's splitting when necessary, they couldn't do it. It's more likely they could catch the half back out with a through ball over the top to the CF when the CB's are wide. If they stuck someone out wide (e.g. first shot from this game) we stuck to a back 3 and the half back didn't push out. If they didn't stick anyone out wide, the two CB's would sit a bit narrower to cover their lone forward, and the IWB's and half back would form a midfield 3. This midfield 3 made it almost impossible for them to counter attack because we just collected every clearance. Equally when attacking, due to the mentality and tempo, it's extremely rare for us to build play slowly and over commit men forwards before an incisive pass is played. With a slower tempo, players push forwards but the ball doesn't move as quickly, so more likely to overload and subsequently get caught out on the break. With a high tempo, the ball gets progressed so quickly it either creates an opportunity or play breaks down before the IWB's can get delusions of grandure and begin to overload the box.

I watched another game where the opposition played a 4-2-3-1, some interesting notes:

Firstly their wide attackers always tried to track our IWB's when we were attacking. If we did lose the ball they weren't ever really in a wide position to receive it. I suppose it's a case of our team saying, you are welcome to go and stand in that space over there, but then that leaves us with free men when attacking. If we lose the ball, we will immediately counter press aggressively to stop the out ball. If the out balls happens and reaches it's target, we will have players ready to cover while we reorganise.

Here's a nice transition in attack. You can see here we have played the ball out from the back. Our IWB on the left (number isn't clear but it's 35, has received the ball and played a pass to the trequarista (20) who subsequently hits a through ball to Borja. You can see here their CF has the potential to break as the half back is sitting ahead of him, thinking about the attack. But the HB is still deep, so the CB's are wide. As this is the start of an attack, the half back has just left his position between the two CBs and started to push up, leaving the CF open. The IWB's are sitting perfectly in a 3 alongside the HB, and you can see the 4-2-3-1 pretty clearly, with their double pivot a touch out of position but nothing drastic, this is because their number 12 has come across to close down the trequartista, but our high tempo means he's too late and the pass has happened already.

This is a second or two later. Borja has received the through ball on the left and is lining up a cross to our CF (which comes to nothing in the end). The thing I like here is the movement of the defensive unit...the CBs have narrowed due to the half back pushing higher...perfect!! The IWB's are still sitting fairly deep as they don't want to over commit, the opposition still have their attacking 4 positioned fairly high. If we lose the ball here, let's say a poor cross finds the feet of their number 15, there is no counter opportunity available. He could play a ball wide to their 6, but our IWB would come across to cover and the other defenders would slide across as well to reposition. 

 

Another playing out from the back, half back/IWB's example:

Super risky here, but only if we give the ball away. However I have full confidence in my players to not do that. if it happens occasionally and costs us a goal that's fine. I could also consider changing the keeper to a more aggressive role as well here to provide an extra passing option. You can see the CBs have spread suuuuper wide, the IWB's are sitting inside as midfielders, with the half back the one on the ball (Herrera). 

About 5 seconds on here, we've attacked down the left following an attacking run by our ML. He's crossed but it's a poor one in to the side netting. You can see the IWB's are where they should be, the half back has pushed up to join them...the big thing though is as the half back has pushed slightly higher, the CB's have come narrower. Their 9 still has an opportunity here, but we have had the ball so the CBs are well positioned to come narrower still if we are about to transition. It's risky play but we have quick CBs able to cover the space if a quick transition happens, and the IWB's are well positioned to deal with any wide threat (at least slow their attack down to regroup). Also worth noting that as movement continues here as the ball goes out, the CB's are actively getting narrower.

 

What i like about the changes your post pushed me to make, wasn't the attacking nature of the IWB's as I've not gone down that route...it's the tempo and mentality. The players look to play the ball so quickly that we pretty much never build the play up slowly. The only times we might do that are against teams trying to park the bus, in which case they don't offer much threat on the counter anyway. As we build the play extremely quickly, the IWB's and half back don't really have chance to go out of position in an attempt to influence play in the box. If they do, it's because the opposition are sitting deep and there isn't a threat to deal with. 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by bowieinspace

[TOMetz]

8 hours ago, bowieinspace said:

SK (S), two inverted wing backs on support, two BPD's with a half back in front of them. Two wide midfielders with lots of PI's, a creative attacking midfielder (trequartista or AP(A) and a pressing forward attack.

Really interesting since I'm a big fan of the IWB as well. But in your description above I only count ten players? Could you post a shot of your tactics so we have an overview?

[TOMetz]

Meanwhile,

The perfect youth intake day doesn't exi-

These eleven players will be getting a contract. This has to be one of the best youth intake days I've ever had in FM, both in terms of standout talents (two guys below) and a large number of 3 to 4,5 star potential players, nearly all with great personality traits.

An end of season one update will follow soon. I can tell you that Barça are underperforming due to Messi suffering a knee injury which makes the race for the CL spots and even the title incredibly exciting.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TOMetz

[bowieinspace]

11 hours ago, TOMetz said:

Meanwhile,

The perfect youth intake day doesn't exi-

These eleven players will be getting a contract. This has to be one of the best youth intake days I've ever had in FM, both in terms of standout talents (two guys below) and a large number of 3 to 4,5 star potential players, nearly all with great personality traits.

 

This has to be a golden generation? That's incredible!

I'll get on to the tactical stuff later when I have a break at work  

[bowieinspace]

So tactical set up.

I was working on a IWB/HB set up as follows (I've not got a copy of the older tactic now so apologies for not having a screen of this...), I subsequently changed this when I saw the post about a similar system in the tactics forum. The post was trying to achieve roughly the same things I was, but I was being too cautious with my application..it was working ok but I tried changing my system to include his TI's and it really made everything click:

My WIP set up:

SK (S),
IWB (S), BPD (S), CD (D), IWB (S)
HB (D)
W (A) BBM (S), AP (A), W (A)
PF (A)

Standard mentality
Play out of defence
Low Crosses (I don't have any big forwards so this is a given really)
Counter
Counter-Press
Defend Narrower
Higher Defensive Line
Urgent Pressing
Lower line of engagement
Tighter Marking

I was struggling against low block defences and I kept getting caught out building play slowly and over committing players forwards, obviously the two go somewhat hand in hand.

I was fortunate with the timing of the post on the tactics forum as it helped me to correct a few challenges I was having. Off the back of this I made multiple TI changes to change how we were doing things, the changes allowed us to transition much quicker and as transitions happened more often, despite the higher pressing and urgency, allowed us to draw deep blocks further up the pitch, which was an interesting end result. 

Changes positionally meant moving my AP (A) from midfield into the AM strata. I rotate that role between AP (A) and T (A), I use an AP (A) against stronger opposition. I also rotate SK (S) with SK (A). I use the more attacking role against weaker teams where I am happy for the keeper to get out of his box and help more with passing. I also changed my wingers to wide midfielders with a number of PI's. This helped because I wanted my wide players to still defend the flanks where necessary, but I wanted them to attack like wingers without always crossing from the byline, which helps with the overall feel of the tempo. The tempo changes made a massive difference because the ball doesn't spend ages within the midfield line during build up play, this meant the IWB's didn't over commit themselves. 

I've never been an advocate of work ball in to box generally, but with this system it works well because the wide players use a bit more variety, and with the high tempo it means they don't always faff around near the box. OP on the tactics forum uses get further forward on his IWB's, which I don't use, so they hold more of a midfield position in attack. Overall I ended up making a lot of changes to match the OP in tactics forum, with changes to how the IWB's play, and some minor role changes, but as we were working on basically the same thing I followed his lead as the system works really well.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by bowieinspace

[TOMetz]

Update end of Season 1:

Well, so this happened.

What a season filled with coincidence, luck, and some good football. Barcelona had a dreadful first half of the season due to Messi suffering from a knee injury. It's incredible how beatable they become without him in the squad. Still Valverde didn't get the sack. As for Real, I'm disappointed in that I don't think they played as consistent as they could. We managed to keep them at bay two times. For a long time it seemed that Atlético Madrid would run away with the title. They beat us 1-0 at the Wanda but it could've easily been 3 or 4-0. Around april they listed a lot of very inconsistent results and suffered a lot of suspensions. Meanwhile, I had a great run after the winter break and before I even realised, we hit the first spot early April and never looked back.

I'm especially impressed with our run after Christmas.

Of course there are more than a handful of key games that eventually set us up for a great run towards the title and miraculously remain unbeaten. We really lucked out at the Mestalla early January with them missing a penalty and Banega conceding a red card early in the second half. Otherwise we would've never brought home a point.

It must've been shortly after this match where I struggled with creating chances against weaker opponents or really distribute play from the center, even though Martinez is absolutely golden as a Libero on attack. The key player became Beñat after switching his role from a DLP on support to an AP on support. Dani Garcia as a BBM next to him made everything click. EVERYTHING!

My central midfield suddenly made a lot more sense to me and which players to choose.

We needed an excellent Mikel San José on Beñat's spot against Atlético (three times!), Barça and Real to hold a point there. At the Nou Camp we gave a way a 0-2 lead. And it didn't even take the Blaugrana a penalty.

The run we had from early March to the end of the season is nothing but incredible, miraculous. Don't get me wrong, there were tons of difficult games but a lot of times Iñigo Martinez' free kicks pulled us through, like at home vs Atlético. He bagged 5 in total. Along with two headers. I wish there was a 'pre-assist' statistic because he would have a ton of them.

I was especially impressed with beating Celta, Sevilla and Valencia in a row. These were three games where I thought I'd lose my first spot, but Atlético dropped a lot of points those weeks. Moreover all these games were a tactical masterclass. This system is insanely flexible when Nolaskoain comes on as a CMde or Guruzeta as a CFsu, for instance. Yuri was the wide threat on the left when Muniain cut inside, he got the most assists as a CWB. De Marcos was a discovery as a IWBsu as he arrives late in the opponent's half and has some power in that right foot of his. Him and Beñat often ruled midfields across the Liga.

We eventually got the title on a 1-2 away win at Levante.

Meanwhile, Barcelona resurrected after Messi's return and took their revenge on us in the final of the Copa. A bitter loss to what could've been a historically great start in my career (I've yet to win a double in any Athletic save, ever) but it shows again what a machine Barcelona is on FM when Messi is fit.

This learned me that, with good recruitment and youth development, we might be able to put ourselves in the hole Barça will leave when Messi starts ageing. It's a challenge I'm willing to take.

Transfers:

Out: Raul Garcia (end of contract), Sabin Merino (end of contract). I'll be looking to sell: Ganea, Unai Lopez, Mikel Rico for sure. 

In: I acquired Ivan Martín from Villareal in January, a Bilbao born, quick creative player who can play anywhere on the AM line. 

Targets: I won't expect anything too big here. I might have a go for Mikel Moreno if I find a good loan deal for Sancet or if someone snoops away one of my midfielders. It should be doable since he's out with a cruciate ligament injury. I don't know if this will make his transfer easier. I'm pretty confident of landing Roberto López from Sociedad as well, next to a great regen from Osasuna who has great attributes to become a libero, and you know I like them.

To be continued!

[Jean0987654321]

I hope you grab Lopez, he has been a Basque Robben for me

[bowieinspace]

I love a libero! Hope that works out for you.

[maccataq]

General question - does everyone sign up their high potential youth players straight on to professional contracts?

I used to do this but now I just leave them all on youth contracts for as long as I can. They never seem to draw interest from big clubs and if they do there is no minimum fee release clause to trigger (although I put in big ones when I do give them contracts) so not really had any issues. Also, it saves you a bit of money too!

[bowieinspace]

1 hour ago, maccataq said:

General question - does everyone sign up their high potential youth players straight on to professional contracts?

I used to do this but now I just leave them all on youth contracts for as long as I can. They never seem to draw interest from big clubs and if they do there is no minimum fee release clause to trigger (although I put in big ones when I do give them contracts) so not really had any issues. Also, it saves you a bit of money too!

I generally sign them up. I'm pretty sure if they are not on professional contracts they can be plucked away for a fairly low compensation amount, definitely not ideal, so I always took the safest option. 

[Falahk]

I give them professional contracts right away, when you play athletic you will run out of players who are good enough much faster then you run out of money 

[TOMetz]

11 hours ago, maccataq said:

General question - does everyone sign up their high potential youth players straight on to professional contracts?

I used to do this but now I just leave them all on youth contracts for as long as I can. They never seem to draw interest from big clubs and if they do there is no minimum fee release clause to trigger (although I put in big ones when I do give them contracts) so not really had any issues. Also, it saves you a bit of money too!

I also never did, but Atlético almost ran off with this guy so from now on I'll give the ones with high potential a contract straight away.

I give them a lot of bonuses in time, like a higher wage after 20 matches in the first team, which they'll never get at that age but it'll sway them into signing. They'll want a new contract where you can start negotiating their wage a lot tighter by the time they're ready for the first team.