Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Its clearly a trick giving the illusion of a 3D Engine, and for exposing this simple fact I have been given an infraction. SI claim the stadium is 3D, and to an extent that would be correct. However given the pre-defined camera angles its clear its not real time rendered 3D, and its clear the player models are not 3D. I dont know what the problem is with my observations, I can only assume seeming they are selling a 3D match engine they dont want it exposed for what it really is; Not real time renderd 3D which is basically 3D isometric pixelation. My threads keep getting locked because they seem to not want us discussing this too much until after release day. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Oh you again. Are you bored or something? It's already been explained to you that it is not an isometric view as you previously claimed, and it is 3D. You were funny at first, not so amusing now though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 as many of us said yesterday we are happy with the 3d and game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Kaa Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I don't really care. Its better than 2d so why complain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 as many of us said yesterday we are happy with the 3d and game Even if you're not happy with the 3D view (many aren't - I've yet to be won over by it) the fact remains, it IS 3D. No question about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoroHoro Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 All i can say is that "be thankful that you are now seeing little humans instead of 'beatles' / blobs." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 It wouldn't use pre-defined camera angles if the 3D was being rendered in real time. I'm explaining why its not real time rendered 3D, no one is explaining why it is except saying "OMFG its 3D". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottycm Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Ultimatley who cares? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 If you dont care scotty then you have no reason to be here in this thread, unless you just wish to troll of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 It wouldn't use pre-defined camera angles if the 3D was being rendered in real time. I'm explaining why its not real time rendered 3D, no one is explaining why it is except saying "OMFG its 3D". Sorry, you really haven't explained how this is not 3D. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_computer_graphics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 It wouldn't use pre-defined camera angles if the 3D was being rendered in real time. I'm explaining why its not real time rendered 3D, no one is explaining why it is except saying "OMFG its 3D". did you like the 2d match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttface Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 It is 3D, it is 3D, it is 3D, it is 3D, it is 3D. How many times? How many threads? Please stop, you're making my life painful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 I have explained clearly why the game does not render 3D in real time, and if it doesnt do that its not really 3D. Rather its a very good illusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backpackant Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Probably because they are the same question twice then a question that has already been answered. "Is fm really 3d?" Yes. "Is fm really 3d?" Yes. "Why can't I ask my questions?" You did; they were answered. IMO, the graphics are a bit simplistic but looking at how the players move in relation to the calculations made by the underlying match engine, I don't see how this can work without 3D. I've played as Chelski for a couple of game-months now and have started to see personalities on the pitch, how I can tell which player is Anelka and which is Drogba just by his movement off the ball... it points to 3d action. It's simplistic but it's their first stab at this. My PC is way-above-spec but could barely run the 3D graphics until I updated some bits and pieces so if it was any more detailed I doubt anything but the very top-of-the-line PCs would run it. Give it a chance. Am sure they'll have Pro-Evo quality graphics in a couple of years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 Suttface no one forced you to come to this thread, infact if none of you are interested in this thread then PLEASE leave the replies for people who are interested in discussing the 3d match engine a little more. You are just trolling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktheblade1 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Its clearly a trick giving the illusion of a 3D Engine, and for exposing this simple fact I have been given an infraction. SI claim the stadium is 3D, and to an extent that would be correct. However given the pre-defined camera angles its clear its not real time rendered 3D, and its clear the player models are not 3D. I dont know what the problem is with my observations, I can only assume seeming they are selling a 3D match engine they dont want it exposed for what it really is; Not real time renderd 3D which is basically 3D isometric pixelation. My threads keep getting locked because they seem to not want us discussing this too much until after release day. What do you think? Why don't you give SI a bit of a break, I'm sure they have worked damn hard on this and just because it's not as good as Fifa or Pro Evo (Both games have been in production for years) everyone has a massive problem? It is still 3d though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 (it is 3d)im saying if you did like the 2d why not stick with that i bet theres loads of people that like and not to keen on the 3d but still going to buy the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktheblade1 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Sorry... I didn't mean everyone, rather some people... I was getting a bit carried away!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 I think 09 is fantastic, I really like what they have done with press conferences. I like the financial overhaul they have implemented, Dont get me wrong SI do a great great great job for us. But please this doesnt mean we cant discuss our suspicions also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Your logic is flawed. A static camera angle is no proof either for or against a 3D environment. Isometric it is definitely not, so the fact that you used to claim that takes a tad away from your arguments here. Also, whether it's pre-rendered just before the highlight pops up or based on real-time calculations has no impact on whether it's in 3D or not. I'm not sure where you got this idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttface Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Suttface no one forced you to come to this thread, infact if none of you are interested in this thread then PLEASE leave the replies for people who are interested in discussing the 3d match engine a little more. You are just trolling. Are you joking? Can you not take the hint? Stop looking for attention- either come up with a new topic or stop posting. I have read at least 2 threads started by you where SI have answered your queries directly. What more do you want? Or do you expect SI to give you a different answer if you just keep on asking? It is frustrating to log on and find the same questions all the time. However, it isn't normally the same member over and over again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 but everyone has said its 3d so whats to discuss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I have explained clearly why the game does not render 3D in real time, and if it doesnt do that its not really 3D. Rather its a very good illusion. OK - so what would you describe it as then? In a marketable way that will be understood by the majority (laymen, mostly). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 Suttface, I didnt ask SI a question in the original post, I ask the community. Guess what, your not the only member of the community. I suggest you go and visit other threads if this one annoys you, beause frankly no one forces you into this thread. Its your CHOICE to come here and be annoyed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttface Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Please mods, help us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktheblade1 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I think 09 is fantastic, I really like what they have done with press conferences. I like the financial overhaul they have implemented, Dont get me wrong SI do a great great great job for us. But please this doesnt mean we cant discuss our suspicions also. But still, regards the 3d match engine, I'm yet to be wowed by it and I'd bet that in 6 months I will still be at this stage, however it is a nice feature at the moment and I'm sure it will get better with time and I'm sure that if SI weren't ready to venture into 3d then they wouldn't. I think you need to remember that this is the most basic the 3d engine will be and I think SI have a strategy in place to get to where they want it to be, this is in no way the polished version of 3d, however it still works ok, so why not release it now and tidy it up in future versions? I have no doubt in my mind that this is an honest release by SI and there are no underhand tactics being employed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 But still, regards the 3d match engine, I'm yet to be wowed by it and I'd bet that in 6 months I will still be at this stage, however it is a nice feature at the moment and I'm sure it will get better with time and I'm sure that if SI weren't ready to venture into 3d then they wouldn't. I think you need to remember that this is the most basic the 3d engine will be and I think SI have a strategy in place to get to where they want it to be, this is in no way the polished version of 3d, however it still works ok, so why not release it now and tidy it up in future versions? I have no doubt in my mind that this is an honest release by SI and there are no underhand tactics being employed. im not a 2d or 3d person but as you said its nice to have you can have a good look if a goal is offside now or if a red card is a red card Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backpackant Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I have explained clearly why the game does not render 3D in real time, and if it doesnt do that its not really 3D. Rather its a very good illusion. Have SI claimed this is what it is? The way 2D or 3D works is that it is a graphical representation of a match engine, a host of calculations based on player stats and tactics. EG, two players go for a header. The match engine looks at: the angle of the ball, speed of the ball, jumping ability of player 1 and player 2, heading ability, anticipation, positioning, etc, and makes a decision either "1" or "0" (player gets ball or not) and then portrays this in the graphics that you see on screen. It then makes a calculation as to where the ball ends up, based on how good the headers was, the positioning of other players, and so-on. In FM09's case the 3D graphics (a "tablecloth" over the match engine) shows you what has been calculated. This table cloth appears to be 3D - you get depth of field and limited human features. This sounds like 3D to me. Why isn't this good enough? I'm not having a go at you or flaming you, Endology, just trying to understand why you are so upset. Do you expect zooming in and out, Matrix-style swinging cameras, Match of the Day-quality editing? From memory, Pro Evo et al have one angle unless you change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 I actually like the new 2D view alot, Its crisper and seems to flow very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I actually like the new 2D view alot, Its crisper and seems to flow very well. use that then if you dont like the 3d Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee50_11 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I don't really care. Its better than 2d so why complain? exactly i like it big improvement on 2D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirky Diggler Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Its clearly a trick giving the illusion of a 3D Engine, and for exposing this simple fact I have been given an infraction. SI claim the stadium is 3D, and to an extent that would be correct. However given the pre-defined camera angles its clear its not real time rendered 3D, and its clear the player models are not 3D. I dont know what the problem is with my observations, I can only assume seeming they are selling a 3D match engine they dont want it exposed for what it really is; Not real time renderd 3D which is basically 3D isometric pixelation. My threads keep getting locked because they seem to not want us discussing this too much until after release day. What do you think? It isnt supposed to be a 3d Engine?!? They have already stated its the standard engine that is represented in 3D. They can adverise it as whatever they want as far as im concerned it looks fine, and I have to say that im impressed by it. I dont care if its rendered in real time or rendered last week, it makes the game cosmetically better for the people who have been wanted 3d for a while, and makes me happy because I can still play it as I always have. Just be happy with it, go have a beer in the pub and watch United play Arsenal off the park this afternoon. Life has enough stress and problems without adding to them getting worked up by an issue as insignificant as this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam.S Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Its been confirmed its 3D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I actually like the new 2D view alot, Its crisper and seems to flow very well. You still haven't answered my question - and as for the "truth" about 3D, I recall that you believed it was nothing more than an isometric view, so I find it difficult to value your opinion on 3D. Fair enough if you don't like 3D, I'm not amazed by it either. But it is 3D in the sense that we now have things like depth perception which we didn't so much with the old 2D view. The fact is, no-one's being misled by any of this. I'm guessing that even you weren't being misled? Is this not a little bit of pedantry? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 i have never liked the 3d of other football managing games takes up to much space and less players to look at if you kniow what i mean(but this is not a detailed one and thats what i like about it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 Answer me this, http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/fo3-vault1.jpg is that 3d to you? cause thats what this game was advertised at when released in god 1882. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfDude Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 The idiocy of this thread is embarrassing. I recommend going to the library and getting a book called '3D for dummies' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardav Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 3d dont mean fantastic grahpics its not like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Answer me this, http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/fo3-vault1.jpg is that 3d to you? cause thats what this game was advertised at when released in god 1882. Looks like a Van Buren screenshot, and yes, unlike the two original Fallouts which used isometric graphics, that's 3D. There's no "to you" in this by the way, 3D is a very well-defined thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverwalkalone19 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Looks pretty 3D to me. Someone is a bit of a conspiracy theorist I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpico Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 If it wasn't 3d why are people without 3d cards unable to play. Ahaa. Got you now. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscotti Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Try using the "Main Stand" camera view of the match: it pans from side to side thus altering the angle it sees the player models from, and lo and behold they actually are 3d! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktheblade1 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 If it wasn't 3d why are people without 3d cards unable to play. Ahaa. Got you now.Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz It's because it's SI have done it on purpose Serpico, to stop people playing the game ;O) anyway... have you got typing narcolepsy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 Jesus christ, dont you realise how far sprites have come since the mario days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Answer me this, http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/fo3-vault1.jpg is that 3d to you? cause thats what this game was advertised at when released in god 1882. Look, for the purposes of computer gaming: 3D (FIFA 09) 3D (FM 09) Isometric I don't get why you're still adamant this isn't 3D, and that FM is all one big lie. :confused: You're not explaining yourself in a coherent manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartShapedMan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Endology you're completely clueless and embarrassing yourself. It's 3D, a visual representation of the x, y and z axis (ie 3 dimensions). Just like that screen you posted of an early Fallout 3 build. Just because the camera is limited to a specific viewpoint it doesn't change that. It's like saying that Crysis isn't 3D because you can only play from the first person perspective. Ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscotti Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I'll tell you what, if you're so unbelievably convinced that the engine is not 3d, why don't you email SI with your complaint, rather than flooding the forums with your opinion when it's quite clear that you're not convincing anyone.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Your reasons for it not being 3D is because you can't move the cameras around freely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpico Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Actually this was why you got the infraction Seriously you are all full of ****, and guillable to say the least. I wonder how I just knew the camera views wwas gonna be pre-defined, How I just knew this was isometric trickery. You need to pull your heads out of SI's arse every once in a a while, because although they have and still do a great job they got you right on that leesh. Kudos SI, these fools actually believe you. Now I hope you not only lock this thread but also ban me, you quite frankly dont deserve me anyway with such absurd claims. Adios I played my "guess the age of the poster" game before checking your profile. I was genuinely surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endology Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 No quite because in a first person shooter you can clearly move around a 3D space. There are no indications the players are even doing that. If that was a real 3d space SI would not think twice about have a free camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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