Let us disable VAR in FM19!

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Federico said:

Definitely.

And it's not that you see VAR every 5 minutes of gameplay. There matches IRL where the ref goes to the on field review 2-3 times, but for the most of them nothing happens. Some comments here are so blatant and biased I can't believe what I'm reading. Having 25 questions during a PC is ok because that's part of being a manager. But no, VAR no, remove it please 

Maybe for the 'nothing' incidents, especially where the ref probably shouldn't have even bothered checking, it simply shouldn't be shown - certainly not on Key highlights.

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, grade said:

I always refrain to see the feature in full in game or other videos of it. But if the video is the only animation we are going to see. It last 25 seconds (depending where referee is position in the field), it makes the matches last longer. That is my only complain, of course If that is not the case I will happily say I was wrong.

But I can only comment from what I saw and what I saw, makes me concern that is going to make the matches in game last even longer.

They don't last that long right now!

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Federico said:

If ever, it's +25 secs to add to a match giving you a little bit of suspense back.

Is it THAT bad??

It's similar to how the very end of a match is always shown.

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, grade said:

You might be right about that, maybe my concerns be valid. As always my full opinion is always seeing the video of features or trying the game.

I don't deny it, I will probably buy the game regardless. I'm that type of a fan.

Aren't we all Probably why SI virtually get away with murder with some of their decisions (that's just an idiom before someone misinterprets lol!)

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Federico]

1 minuto fa, Spurs08 ha scritto:

It's similar to how the very end of a match is always shown.

Exactly... but hey man, you're flooding the thread now

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, forameuss said:

Yeah, how dare he have a personal opinion that doesn't match yours?

It's sad

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

 

No, if these 25 secs are "covered" by specific interactions and shouts. We are supposed to be managers, not tv watchers.

Sorry, not sure I understand?

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Federico said:

If "you're a manager", you should know what "real managers" do during an on field review: nothing. But wait for the response. Which thing make them "less" manager and more "theater audience" according to you?

They're probably thinking about tactics, motivation etc which you can too

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

Ok, that's your style of management. Nothing wrong. But for some people every second is very important if they can use these seconds for interactions and shouts. There are some specific interactions/shouts during VAR ?

Like what? What would you suggest there be?

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Its more that now I've seen a glimpse of the new game I find it impossible to play the current one, happens to me every year.

Okay I do emphasise with that, especially this year with how great the new features look I'm just a little worried that like we've sometimes seen before they won't work so well at first and will mostly shine in FM20, especially with how many big changes there are.

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, Federico said:

I thank you for your understanding, but that's not "my" style of management, but the "style" of every Serie A manager. Maybe in your Country managers use to gather all the squad around to give instructions, assuming there's VAR in your Country. But I'm pretty sure you can pause the game anytime to make every change you feel the need to make and anyway this has nothing to do with VAR animation, considering the game is stopped.

It'd be cool if the leagues in game felt as different as they do in real life.

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

Of course. But if this time can be covered by some useful options, not by looking at the referee ... would be better for some people. 

Why not just use all the existing options?

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

A slightly controversial game feature released in the build up to the next FM?  Who'd have thought.

More fuel for the hype fire .

Always a good strategy to be fair

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, Vicz said:

I think the real question is what is the actual process that's being introduced here? Which, even though that sounds like a simple question, requires a understanding of the basic referee decision coding in the game. Is there actually variance in how a referee can judge a call in the game? Assuming there is, does the addition of VAR introduce a second decision phase? Where maybe the referee makes a decision with more accuracy? If this is the case then it shouldn't be a turn on/off feature because it does simulate real football. If the whole thing is cosmetic and the referee will make the same decision with or without VAR then yes please allow it to be disabled.

I very much hope so, would suck if it was just a cosmetic change!

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Ahhh I understand you I think. You are fed up with being cheated  Not all games will have VAR though

I stopped FM18 after 2 seasons as the ME was driving me nuts

 

Hopefully #FM19's is better!

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

In real life the overwhelming majority of people who protest against VAR say that they are against it not because they doubt its positive impact on referees decisions but they are against it because it slows down matches and because of that it’s not worth having VAR.

I can say that in real life I’ve never seen that someone who was against VAR says that VAR can’t help referees make better calls in some dubious situations but they say that VAR events just takes too much time and it’s very boring to watch them so because of it’s not worth having VAR.

I’m sure that the overwhelming majority of people that protest against the VAR introduction in FM19 is just want to have an option to skip watching its events during matches and that’s all.            

 

People do like to protest though, in real life too!

[Spurs08]

2 hours ago, Federico said:

You clearly never watched italian football and never listened to any italian fan

I've watched all too much myself

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, danmcconnell1 said:

I think VAR is a brilliant addition to FM. We all have had decisions which we think have been wrong on FM before and maybe, just maybe, some of those decisions might be overturned with VAR. Some will go for and against us, but FM has always strived to be as realistic as possible and they have succeeded yet again. I can't wait for the new edition and to see how it pans out.

Should probably be more dodgy calls though! Even corrupt refs in certain leagues.

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

 

 

Mate, If we are talking about FM(a PC game) and not about real life then the only reason why someone might be against the VAR introductions in FM19 it’s because they don’t want to watch VAR events during matches and they want to be sure that there’ll be an option to skip VAR events.

There are simply no other reasons to protest against the VAR introductions in FM19 except the one I pointed above because the code that is responsible for referees decisions might not change at all in FM19 compare FM18 and the only difference is just cosmetical means that in FM19 when watching matches sometimes you encounter match events when the referee run to watch VAR but interacting with VAR might not have any impact on the referee’s decision at all but I think in FM19 SI just made referees to make slightly less mistakes in the leagues that supports VAR compare to the leagues without VAR support... at least such move would look logical to me.    

A simulation more than a game.

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, Candy Cadet said:

I don't have an issue with it being added as it can't be any worse than it is in RL. It's more having to watch the referee animation each time as he runs over to the sidelines and kills 20 seconds. Sure it may not happen very often, but just being able to disable that would be good. You should be able to see the incident as a highlight anyway without the need for the ref part.

Yep!

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

ah sorry i thought you were talking about real life complaints

It could apply to either in fairness!

[Federico]

3 minuti fa, Spurs08 ha scritto:

I've watched all too much actually

You're now even answering to post not referring to you! I ask for someone to stop this man!

Mod I summon thee!

[Spurs08]

54 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Thats a very good point. If the code allows an FM closer inspection of what happened then this could be good. If its simply a delay before the same decision that would be made for FM18 then its truly cosmetic. A question for SI

A shame the devs so rarely interact on here these days. They used to loads!

[Spurs08]

50 minutes ago, noikeee said:

I'd be amazed if SI didn't think of giving us different options for treating highlights regarding VAR, for those who don't want the game being slowed down too much. This was already in the game such as the ability to get replays or not of goals, controversial calls etc. I like to play the game quickly but am not too worried about this.

Surely it'd just be rolled into the existing Key, Extended etc options?

[Spurs08]

41 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

Would you be saying that if it was a major final and it was the difference between a last minute winner being allowed? I'd happily sit through a few seconds of a review for this. It's realistic and an important addition. SI have gone somewhere no other football game has gone and it's a brilliant feature.

Good point - wonder if we'll see it in FIFA soon?!

[Totalfootballfan]

55 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Thats a very good point. If the code allows an FM closer inspection of what happened then this could be good. If its simply a delay before the same decision that would be made for FM18 then its truly cosmetic. A question for SI

 

Unlike in real life, in FM referees are always aware about everything what happens during matches and they are able to make correct calls all the time because they aren’t humans they are just a part of the game code  but SI coded them to make mistakes sometimes in order they can look like referees from real life  and let’s say in FM a good referee is coded to make 90 correct calls of 100 calls and a bad referee a coded to make 70 correct calls of 100 calls and so on…

So unlike in real life, in FM the VAR introduction might be just an additional animated even during matches that many people would like to skip and nothing more than that and there might be no changes to the code that is responsible for referees’ decisions but as I said it would be logical to if SI slightly increased numbers of correct call from referees in the leagues that support VAR compare with the leagues that don’t support it.

[Spurs08]

40 minutes ago, Siven said:

I dont mind VAR, i just hope theres an option to skip the ref running over to view it.

A few people have mentioned this lol

[Spurs08]

40 minutes ago, Candy Cadet said:

There is a difference between sitting through the replay of the incident and watching a ref run to the sidelines and look at an imaginary screen and then the text indicating the outcome. If the time taken for the review was a replay itself, that would be better. In RL you get to see multiple replays whilst the decision is made.

Imagine if they put that in the game too!

[Vicz]

2 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

Unlike in real life, in FM referees are always aware about everything what happens during matches and they are able to make correct calls all the time because they aren’t humans they are just a part of the game code  but SI coded them to make mistakes sometimes in order they can look like referees from real life  and let’s say in FM a good referee is coded to make 90 correct calls of 100 calls and a bad referee a coded to make 70 correct calls of 100 calls and so on…

So unlike in real life, in FM the VAR introduction might be just an additional animated even during matches that many people would like to skip and nothing more than that and there might be no changes to the code that is responsible for referees’ decisions but as I said it would be logical to if SI slightly increased numbers of correct call from referees in the leagues that support VAR compare with the leagues that don’t support it.

Would be lovely if somebody from the development team could shed some light on this...

[Spurs08]

15 minutes ago, Federico said:

Exactly... but hey man, you're flooding the thread now

 

5 minutes ago, Federico said:

You're now even answering to post not referring to you! I ask for someone to stop this man!

Mod I summon thee!

See, I can use multi-quote!

Sorry for the flood - as I said before, I wasn't able to post yesterday, so I wrote my replies going along and got them posted now. I thought they might just slot into the right place but sadly not. If your mod summoning spell works I wouldn't mind them fixing that!

[Spurs08]

5 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

Unlike in real life, in FM referees are always aware about everything what happens during matches and they are able to make correct calls all the time because they aren’t humans they are just a part of the game code  but SI coded them to make mistakes sometimes in order they can look like referees from real life  and let’s say in FM a good referee is coded to make 90 correct calls of 100 calls and a bad referee a coded to make 70 correct calls of 100 calls and so on…

So unlike in real life, in FM the VAR introduction might be just an additional animated even during matches that many people would like to skip and nothing more than that and there might be no changes to the code that is responsible for referees’ decisions but as I said it would be logical to if SI slightly increased numbers of correct call from referees in the leagues that support VAR compare with the leagues that don’t support it.

Very well explained I must say

[Spurs08]

2 minutes ago, Vicz said:

Would be lovely if somebody from the development team could shed some light on this...

+1! Sadly I rarely see many of them around these days other than Neil.

[Carninho]

1 minute ago, Spurs08 said:

 

See, I can use multi-quote!

Sorry for the flood - as I said before, I wasn't able to post yesterday, so I wrote my replies going along and got them posted now. I thought they might just slot into the right place but sadly not. If your mod summoning spell works I wouldn't mind them fixing that!

I kept attempting to say that you owned this thread now, but each time I write this you post again lol

[Spurs08]

1 minute ago, Carninho said:

I kept attempting to say that you owned this thread now, but each time I write this you post again lol

I think all my replies have come through now

[Carninho]

7 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

Unlike in real life, in FM referees are always aware about everything what happens during matches and they are able to make correct calls all the time because they aren’t humans they are just a part of the game code  but SI coded them to make mistakes sometimes in order they can look like referees from real life  and let’s say in FM a good referee is coded to make 90 correct calls of 100 calls and a bad referee a coded to make 70 correct calls of 100 calls and so on…

So unlike in real life, in FM the VAR introduction might be just an additional animated even during matches that many people would like to skip and nothing more than that and there might be no changes to the code that is responsible for referees’ decisions but as I said it would be logical to if SI slightly increased numbers of correct call from referees in the leagues that support VAR compare with the leagues that don’t support it.

again this is a worry as I can see them doing that. if only so that we get to see VAR on a regular basis

its a bit of a PR stunt to include it anyway to be fair, I just hope it doesn't actually effect the ME 

Also if its in the editor that there is room to really screw up its effectiveness

[Spurs08]

Just now, Carninho said:

again this is a worry as I can see them doing that. if only so that we get to see VAR on a regular basis

its a bit of a PR stunt to include it anyway to be fair, I just hope it doesn't actually effect the ME 

Also if its in the editor that there is room to really screw up its effectiveness

How would you screw it up through the editor?

[MrPompey]

6 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

Unlike in real life, in FM referees are always aware about everything what happens during matches and they are able to make correct calls all the time because they aren’t humans they are just a part of the game code  but SI coded them to make mistakes sometimes in order they can look like referees from real life  and let’s say in FM a good referee is coded to make 90 correct calls of 100 calls and a bad referee a coded to make 70 correct calls of 100 calls and so on…

So unlike in real life, in FM the VAR introduction might be just an additional animated even during matches that many people would like to skip and nothing more than that and there might be no changes to the code that is responsible for referees’ decisions but as I said it would be logical to if SI slightly increased numbers of correct call from referees in the leagues that support VAR compare with the leagues that don’t support it.

Yes of course I understand that but in general referees run a diagonal line covering the corners / quadrants of the pitch where the linesman dont. In the mini demo it was daft as the ref was in the wrong place. If we want to see realisim in thematches then this includes the ref.

The question here is if the VAR is just sugar coating when the ME already "knows" the answer but is play acting rather than using the coding to make a decision after the event in "VAR" time

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, Spurs08 said:

I think all my replies have come through now

I know what you're doing and others are complaining, please reign it in.

[Carninho]

Just now, Spurs08 said:

How would you screw it up through the editor?

well its a simple tick box for VAR on or off then fine, but if it has extra controls and tolerances then it shows how integrated it is to the ME. ie more that can go wrong and require patching later on..

obviously I'm really over reacting now with no real info 

[Spurs08]

Just now, herne79 said:

I know what you're doing and others are complaining, please reign it in.

Ah, purely by conicident I literally just PM'd you about that

1 minute ago, MrPompey said:

Yes of course I understand that but in general referees run a diagonal line covering the corners / quadrants of the pitch where the linesman dont. In the mini demo it was daft as the ref was in the wrong place. If we want to see realisim in thematches then this includes the ref.

The question here is if the VAR is just sugar coating when the ME already "knows" the answer but is play acting rather than using the coding to make a decision after the event in "VAR" time

It seems like something they could hopefully fix for release?

[Spurs08]

Just now, Carninho said:

well its a simple tick box for VAR on or off then fine, but if it has extra controls and tolerances then it shows how integrated it is to the ME. ie more that can go wrong and require patching later on..

obviously I'm really over reacting now with no real info 

I hope there are but really doubt it - it's been a while since any functionality that substantial got added to the editor!

[Carninho]

2 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

The question here is if the VAR is just sugar coating when the ME already "knows" the answer but is play acting rather than using the coding to make a decision after the event in "VAR" time

I don't think it would do any harm us knowing the answer to this. hopefully someone from SI can let us know so I can sleep at night lol

[Deisler26]

I don't mind the addition of VAR, but I would prefer a slo-mo replay of the incident rather than an animation of the ref running away.

[danmcconnell1]

28 minutes ago, Spurs08 said:

Good point - wonder if we'll see it in FIFA soon?!

Can only be a matter of time surely. It relies on the AI sometimes being wrong, how feasible that is in FIFA which is pretty perfect when it comes to offside etc. I don't know but it'll only be a matter of time.

[Neil Brock]

41 minutes ago, Vicz said:

Would be lovely if somebody from the development team could shed some light on this...

Referees (like in real life) can sometimes make mistakes. In leagues with VAR there's the possibility of the decision being correctly overturned. 

In leagues without VAR, you're on your own! 

Also as someone who has played matches with it on, the referee's VAR decision is quick, so don't think many will find it disruptive to the flow of the game. 

[Vicz]

Just now, Neil Brock said:

Referees (like in real life) can sometimes make mistakes. In leagues with VAR there's the possibility of the decision being correctly overturned. 

In leagues without VAR, you're on your own! 

So there's a second decision process. That's quite cool then. Thanks Neil!

[Carninho]

12 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Referees (like in real life) can sometimes make mistakes. In leagues with VAR there's the possibility of the decision being correctly overturned. 

In leagues without VAR, you're on your own! 

Also as someone who has played matches with it on, the referee's VAR decision is quick, so don't think many will find it disruptive to the flow of the game. 

BUT will the ME create a poor decision so that it has one to over turn? or just randomly pick one out to VAR check?

if VAR is not in your league will the ME create act any differently?

do you think we will get the answer to that? or are we worrying about nothing 

[Vicz]

16 minutes ago, Carninho said:

BUT will the ME create a poor decision so that it has one to over turn? or just randomly pick one out to VAR check?

if VAR is not in your league will the ME create act any differently?

do you think we will get the answer to that? or are we worrying about nothing 

Surely they should use the real life rules where the video referees deem the referee on the pitch has made a "clear and obvious" error.

However I see what you mean, are we suddenly going to get more referee errors compared to other FMs just so that VAR can come in and save the day...

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Vicz
other*

[Carninho]

1 minute ago, Vicz said:

Surely they should use the real life rules where the video referees deem the referee on the pitch has made a "clear and obvious" error.

However I see what you mean, are we suddenly going to get more referee errors compared to over FMs just so that VAR can come in and save the day...

 

now that's OK if that only happens in leagues where VAR is active, but my concern is if they bump out more incorrect decisions across the board. 

 

[enigmatic]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

Whether we like VAR or not, it's part of the laws of the football and I'm actually a little disappointed that SI have given us the ability to turn it off in the editor.

I assume the editor gives the ability to turn it off (and more importantly on) for individual leagues only to reflect latest or player's imaginary rules for that league. Which is the right way to do it.

Would be cool and realistic if the game randomly added VAR to leagues currently without it as the game progressed to reflect expected future trends too (Brexit is the precedent for adding in hypotheticals; assume it would be added into league structures top downwards with probability of VAR introduction to topmost league without it being affected by league rep scaled by national economic development)