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Another GM question - Hiring staff


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Hi all.  So I currently am playing just the "on the pitch" head coach while literally everything else is handled by my staff.  And with that being said, I would like to understand the through process of my highly rated GM  who's in charge of hiring /firing staff members.  Recently he started making some hires, physios, under 23 and under 18 coaches, etc.

He's made some really strange hires lately.  He's hired two physios who have a "7" as their Physiotherapy rating and has paid them decent contracts.  Another hire was a fitness coach who was rated a "9" as Fitness coaching.

Not sure I understand why he would even look at these coaches / physios as their attributes are pretty terrible.  A physiotherapy rating of 7 out of 20 should not be going to any team to be honest.

So I'm wondering, why did my GM hire these guys?  Is the GM functionality working as intended?   Or does the game expect the PLAYER to be doing all the contracts and hiring/firing, etc.?

 

Fraz maybe you can shed some light on this since you already know my situation.  Thanks in advance.

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1 minute ago, extremeskins04 said:

I'm playing with Sunderland in the Sky Bet League 1.  Could that be why?  He's adjusting to the league I'm in?

Most likely yes, a rating of 7 is probably quite fair for a third tier side.

The best way to check would to look at the averages across your league, if yours are good then I wouldn't worry too much.

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i have another question related on this

the attributes of the GM have some relation on the quality of the staff he hire? if so, what attributes matter? also, what attributes are important for the GM to sign/bid for players if we give that responsibility to him

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18 hours ago, extremeskins04 said:

 

He's made some really strange hires lately.  He's hired two physios who have a "7" as their Physiotherapy rating and has paid them decent contracts.  Another hire was a fitness coach who was rated a "9" as Fitness coaching.

Not sure I understand why he would even look at these coaches / physios as their attributes are pretty terrible.  A physiotherapy rating of 7 out of 20 should not be going to any team to be honest.

 

I've had this exact same issue when letting my DoF do all the hire/fire jobs on my Man Utd save. For every 16-20 rating staff member brought in, there would be a three or four 10-15 rating staff hired which made no sense considering one of the biggest and wealthiest clubs in the world should have no problem attracting the highest rated people. I ran multiple tests and every time I'd get a mixed bag of results: either the DoF's personal favourites or seemingly names out a hat. Physio/SS/Coaches with 16-20 ratings available for hire, yet the DoF is hell bent on poaching half a dozen people from Championship teams instead which doesn't improve my backroom rankings one iota.

It's a bit of a time-consuming pain, but now I just spend a few hours doing the full backroom recruitment myself as I just don't trust the AI/DoF to sign the best possible people available which they really should be doing, if the reputation and resources are there to do it.

Granted if you're playing the "Head Coach Challenge" you just have to accept what you've given in terms of backroom staff, just like when your DoF decides to sell your creative midfielder and replace him with two right backs.

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3 hours ago, Colonel Getafe said:

I've had this exact same issue when letting my DoF do all the hire/fire jobs on my Man Utd save. For every 16-20 rating staff member brought in, there would be a three or four 10-15 rating staff hired which made no sense considering one of the biggest and wealthiest clubs in the world should have no problem attracting the highest rated people. I ran multiple tests and every time I'd get a mixed bag of results: either the DoF's personal favourites or seemingly names out a hat. Physio/SS/Coaches with 16-20 ratings available for hire, yet the DoF is hell bent on poaching half a dozen people from Championship teams instead which doesn't improve my backroom rankings one iota.

It's a bit of a time-consuming pain, but now I just spend a few hours doing the full backroom recruitment myself as I just don't trust the AI/DoF to sign the best possible people available which they really should be doing, if the reputation and resources are there to do it.

Granted if you're playing the "Head Coach Challenge" you just have to accept what you've given in terms of backroom staff, just like when your DoF decides to sell your creative midfielder and replace him with two right backs.

 

Yea it's a bit discouraging.  I did a test and placed an advert and I had 5 physios and some sports scientists respond and out of the 5 physios, 4 of them had a Physiotherapy rating of 15 or better.  So it's weird how my DoF hired a guy with 7.  It sounds to me like DoF AI is broken.

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I think its interesting in that the game may place a combination of  attributes that it considers a physio needs rather than specifically physiotherapy e.g. would you base the ability of a striker solely on finishing?

I think understand what attributes make a good physio is important here. I suspect then that those physios interested in a role would likely base this on the club reputation of the club they are at and yours, league positions, country, language etc etc

Then when it comes to the DoF what attributes make a good DoF. Do these attributes vary when looking to recruit a player versus a staff member?

You could also ask how good is FM in this process. We already see the the AI manager having issues in squad building so i would not be surprised if this flaw is somehow also included with AI recruitment made by the DoF.

Personally I've never hired a DoF and rightly or wrongly always base a physio appointment with the physio having a minimum of 20 :)

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2 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

I think its interesting in that the game may place a combination of  attributes that it considers a physio needs rather than specifically physiotherapy e.g. would you base the ability of a striker solely on finishing?

I think understand what attributes make a good physio is important here. I suspect then that those physios interested in a role would likely base this on the club reputation of the club they are at and yours, league positions, country, language etc etc

Then when it comes to the DoF what attributes make a good DoF. Do these attributes vary when looking to recruit a player versus a staff member?

You could also ask how good is FM in this process. We already see the the AI manager having issues in squad building so i would not be surprised if this flaw is somehow also included with AI recruitment made by the DoF.

Personally I've never hired a DoF and rightly or wrongly always base a physio appointment with the physio having a minimum of 20 :)

Strikers have multiple aspects to whether or not they are considered "good", medics don't. It's literally just Physiotherapy 1-20 or Sport Science 1-20. The higher their stat for the one specific job they have is the only thing that affects whether your medical department is ranked 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. Man Utd should logically be able to attract a higher caliber of physio than Sunderland (for wage offer alone if reputation isn't enough) and so the DoF should be going after the best ones available, not recruiting random 10s and 15s who don't improve what is a numbers-limited department. There will always be some staff that just don't want to leave the jobs they are in or move to foreign countries as you say --and rightly so for a game based on realism-- but that still doesn't explain why the DoF hires random 10s and 15s when many 20s are available and will accept the job if you make the offer yourself (which is why I just filter the 20s and do it myself as I've long since given up expecting AI realism is this area).

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With regard to the attributes for a Physio Its certainly less attributes for a physio than a player I believe it includes as a minimum in varying levels of importance but I would guess in decreasing levels of importance:

 - physiotherapy

- determination

  - fitness coaching

 - discipline

DoF's  - I agree, I wouldn't trust them to make a cup of tea!

 

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54 minutes ago, extremeskins04 said:

 

Yea it's a bit discouraging.  I did a test and placed an advert and I had 5 physios and some sports scientists respond and out of the 5 physios, 4 of them had a Physiotherapy rating of 15 or better.  So it's weird how my DoF hired a guy with 7.  It sounds to me like DoF AI is broken.

I'm not sure it's 'broken' as such, I'm just not convinced it was ever programmed with the logic of "automatically approach the highest rated caliber of staff your club can attract and work your way down the list until all vacancies are filled". I can understand the DoF selling star players if the offer is too good or FFP or contract running out, but why not just hire the best medics possible whether you're a Prem team or League 1. It makes no sense.

Now I just keep a notepad file with a list of names of my preferred backroom staff for each role, so every now and then when I come back to FM or start a new save I can whiz through the hire/fire of staff as quick as possible and have the best possible staff setup ahead of pre-season. Just seems more logical and realistic to get the best backroom you can instead of hoping for an AI DoF to make common sense appointments.

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The DoF has always been pretty useless at hiring/firing - I have never trusted him with any staff recruitment.

I do use the Staff Shortlist - in the same way I use the Player Shortlist - when I see a staff member with good attributes he gets added to the shortlist. When I am notified that staff position 'A' is running out of contract, I have a pool of 'pre-approved' replacements. Come the end of the contract, a quick search as well, but generally hiring from the shortlist.

One thing I don;t do, at least extremely rarely, is terminate staff contracts - it costs too much to buy out the remainder. If staff hiring/firing is going to cost extra over wages, then I would rather it be spent on compensation if I am pulling staff from another club. 

It also means I can plan future hirings, so say I have a physio with 16 Physio, I have shortlisted a guy with 20 but still has three years on his contract - he will be expensive to hire. So, is there anyone else available for no compensation that will improve the physio team? If yes, he comes in on a three year contract - timed to end at the same time as Mr 20. If not, offer the current guy a contract as close to his current wage as possible and as short as possible. Rinse and repeat until Mr 20 is available (maybe with a year let on his contract)

I don;t keep a notebook to carry from save to save, as I prefer to start a new game from scratch as much as possible, but there are often names that crop up regularly that tend to stick in the mind. I remember a scout,  I think George Rooney? Was always available, always seemed to be the best available at start of save and always did a good job for me in lower leagues - he was around for two or three versions of the game.

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Yea I also had to take over the contract renewals for my players as well.  The DoF logic is just making some head scratching decisions.  I tried to make it work but he's signing 30-32 year old players to 3-4 year extensions for big money when they haven't really produced and are in a decline, whereas instead he should be trying to sell players for whatever he can get for them.  I have younger guys that are ready to fill those spots full time, and he doesn't see it.  Very frustrating.

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Actually, you can make use of the DoF, but you need to guard his every move. I sometimes have him make offers for players, but I make sure I'm the one approving stuff. Sometimes he finds gems, but you need to sort out all the other rubble he tries to bring in first.

The transfer AI/squad building AI are one of the issues in long games now, and I'm not surprised that DoF's and others who try to bring in players suffer from the same isses as actual managers in the game.

Let's hope this is improved in FM19!

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I had a cracker recently with my DoF.  I had identified an 18-year-old youngster in the lower league who the scouts reckoned was a hot prospect, would cost up to a million and ask for £2.4 K pw.  I don't normally deal with purchases for the youths, so set the DoF to do the purchase, without conditions, but assuming that he had read the scout report.  I got a notification that he had agreed on a fee at £2M, but I let that run as the boy was looking very promising.  Got the next notification about his contract- key player and £24K pw,  making him my second highest earner in the squad!!.  At my age, reports like that are really not good for you!

Immediately cancelled the sale, waited for 2 weeks, bought him myself for £1M, paid him £2.2K pw on hot prospect status and normality was resumed.  Needless to say,  say, the DoF is currently sitting in his office, reading the paper and checking his facebook account while his contract runs down

I do really wonder sometimes how that code was written.

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On 17/09/2018 at 19:47, Neotropolis said:

Most likely yes, a rating of 7 is probably quite fair for a third tier side.

The best way to check would to look at the averages across your league, if yours are good then I wouldn't worry too much.

Even at a Sunderland standard club for the director of sport to be hiring that level of rating players, it's still quite odd. 

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