BMNJohn Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Hi, Generally and upon watching enough matches, I can get a good grasp of what the roles do. However for the Carrilero... I have no clue whatsoever. I don't understand what makes it unique. I've read the flavour text, the descriptions, but I'm still not sure of what, in the ME when actually using it, makes the Carrilero very different from say, CM(S) for example. I don't see anything particular about it during build-up or when defending. It feels like a very bland role, and I don't understand what its supposed to actually do, beyond what's written in its description of course. I tried some heat maps, checking average positions, where they're passing and/or receiving passes from... there are some differences, but it's not really obvious. Can anyone chime in? EDIT: And yes, I've read the Cleon's guide that's pinned at the top of this section of the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 7 hours ago, BMNJohn said: Hi, Generally and upon watching enough matches, I can get a good grasp of what the roles do. However for the Carrilero... I have no clue whatsoever. I don't understand what makes it unique. I've read the flavour text, the descriptions, but I'm still not sure of what, in the ME when actually using it, makes the Carrilero very different from say, CM(S) for example. I don't see anything particular about it during build-up or when defending. It feels like a very bland role, and I don't understand what its supposed to actually do, beyond what's written in its description of course. I tried some heat maps, checking average positions, where they're passing and/or receiving passes from... there are some differences, but it's not really obvious. Can anyone chime in? EDIT: And yes, I've read the Cleon's guide that's pinned at the top of this section of the forum. Essentially it has hardcoded behaviour to move side to side and cover the wide areas. It's also hardcoded to play wider than any of the CM roles. It's not a role that gets advanced and is more focused on protecting the middle and wide areas. It's supposed to be used with no wide players (ML/R/AML/R) or behaves strangely when used with those roles. Basically that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMNJohn Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Cleon said: Essentially it has hardcoded behaviour to move side to side and cover the wide areas. It's also hardcoded to play wider than any of the CM roles. It's not a role that gets advanced and is more focused on protecting the middle and wide areas. It's supposed to be used with no wide players (ML/R/AML/R) or behaves strangely when used with those roles. Basically that's it. Thank you very much. This explains why I didn't find anything particular with the role and strata setup pictured below. I had thought they'd play wider when the ML/R would get forward to help with general pitch coverage, but it seems they don't do anything interesting at all. On paper it should be the most appropriate role for the 3-4-3 Diamond, but considering what you've written, it doesn't seem to be the case at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, BMNJohn said: Thank you very much. This explains why I didn't find anything particular with the role and strata setup pictured below. I had thought they'd play wider when the ML/R would get forward to help with general pitch coverage, but it seems they don't do anything interesting at all. On paper it should be the most appropriate role for the 3-4-3 Diamond, but considering what you've written, it doesn't seem to be the case at all. The role is designed to play in formations without wingers. That's why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodder Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, BMNJohn said: Would the Carrileros perform their hard coded roles with the wide players in the Wingback strata? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 hours ago, khodder said: Would the Carrileros perform their hard coded roles with the wide players in the Wingback strata? That's what I thought. And yes, they would. I would, however, have another CM in this case (either your DM or AM). You also don't need your formation to be 100% symmetrical. Think about it, if both CMs open wide, your middle might be unprotected. I've had relative success with a mezzala paired with a carrilero and an extra CM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMNJohn Posted September 30, 2018 Author Share Posted September 30, 2018 On 05/09/2018 at 08:25, Cleon said: The role is designed to play in formations without wingers. That's why. Bumping this... Do you know whether it would make sense to use a CAR instead of a CM(S) in a formation where there are wingers anyway? By wingers, I mean ML/R stratas since I never use AML/R stratas. I suppose not, but I'm still wondering if there's any point whatsoever to use the CAR role in a formation with wingers, or if it really, definitively, absolutely with 100% certitude makes no sense whatsoever. I ask that because I've seen @Rashidi showing a formation in a completely unrelated video where there is a CAR on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodentofDoom Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 It seems to work best in the narrow setups 433, 4321, 532 etc as they give the space needed in the wide areas for the role to do what it does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 49 minutes ago, BMNJohn said: Do you know whether it would make sense to use a CAR instead of a CM(S) in a formation where there are wingers anyway I have done... If you dont want a playmaker and dont want a role hard coded to close down or roam... Then car is an option or cm-s. Car, even if not fulfilling the designed duty, is still built to be hard working... So i dont know for sure but it feels a bit more solid than cm-s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I had great success with the twin Carrileros in Ozil’s narrow 4312. CMd between them and AMCs ahead of them. They helped on the wing, especially when the wingbacks pushed forward. They provided support to the front three as well. They even got into the box sometimes, but that might be PPM driven. It’s a fun role when used appropriately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDenimSuccess Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 If you have only one Carillero for example in the RCM strata (as part of a three CM partnership) would he only cover the right side of the exposed flank when wing back or full back pushes on etc or would he cover both sides, left & right of the exposed flanks? Im thinking of a MEZ in the LCM strata and undecided on the central CM at present. Any info would be useful. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasoKuul Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 They cover only their side of the pitch, so RCM the right side and MCL the left side. Everything else would be stupid as you can play with a pair in narrow diamond for example and they would open space if they cover the opposite side of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 05/09/2018 at 02:25, Cleon said: The role is designed to play in formations without wingers. That's why. Yep. That is true but I had some success using it even when i had wingers. It won't work if the wingers are in the midfield strata but it will if they are higher up the field or dropped back as wingbacks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 24/01/2019 at 15:53, DoubleDenimSuccess said: If you have only one Carillero for example in the RCM strata (as part of a three CM partnership) would he only cover the right side of the exposed flank when wing back or full back pushes on etc or would he cover both sides, left & right of the exposed flanks? Im thinking of a MEZ in the LCM strata and undecided on the central CM at present. Any info would be useful. Regards Which particular system with 3 CMs you wanna play - 532, 4132 or 4312, or maybe 4321(christ-mas three)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasoKuul Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Does it makes sense to use a MCL Carrilero in a 4-1-2-2-1 (FM 19 4-1-4-1) setup with a conservative fullback and an attacking AML? I know that they're mostly used in narrow formations without wingers, but hope that he protects the side instead of the attacking AML. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 If you are using a conservative fullback and an attacking winger, then a car may be too conservative. Personally while its possible to use them in most systems esp now in FM19, I would default to having a more box to box midfielder to go with your attacking winger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasoKuul Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Am 30.4.2019 um 11:13 schrieb Rashidi: If you are using a conservative fullback and an attacking winger, then a car may be too conservative. Personally while its possible to use them in most systems esp now in FM19, I would default to having a more box to box midfielder to go with your attacking winger I tried a CAR for a few games but your thought of being too conservative was correct. Changed the role to CMs and BBM (depending on the player) and noticed much better attacking support without any defending problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 You can use a player with gets into opposition area as a car as well, gives you a different dynamic. Traits can be huge modifiers in the game, they influence instructions. I once had a car with runs with ball through centre and gets into oppo area. He attacked like Eden Hazard and defended like a carrilero, got the best of both worlds. Its not a bad combination tbh if you have others to carry the slack when he is away and provided he is good enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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