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How am I not at least a club icon?


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I've managed Liverpool now for 3 of 5 seasons. My achievements are as follows:

 

Season 1: League Title, Champions League, League cup (ridiculous over-achievement).

Season 2: League title, Community Shield, European Super Cup, Club World Championship (I resigned).

Season 3: Finished 5th. No trophies (managed my Luis Enrique)

Season 4: Finished 4th. FA Cup (managed by Luis Enrique, he was sacked and I took over again)

Season 5: League title, League Cup. Also slashed the wage bill, utterly transformed the club finances, promoted a bunch of wonderkids and set the club up for a bright future.

 

When I returned for season 5 I was listed as 2nd on the "favoured personnel" list, and after winning another title and cup I'm now 3rd from bottom? How am I less liked by the club? A title each year I manage, plus various cups, the club are stupid rich and provide almost half the England National team because of me (I'm heavily into Home Grown players and youth development). On winning title #3 Mo Salah was elevated to club legend ABOVE Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish... this despite all his personal achievements coming under my tutelage. It's hard enough to get any kind of credit in FM but how on Earth am I becoming less popular the more I win??? Every single player in the squad "supports" me and are delighted to have me in charge, so it's not an issue with support from players. Currently the board are "absolutely delighted by the way you are managing the team...." with an approval rating of 80% (untouchable) but I can guarantee as soon as the season resets that rating will drop back down a huge chunk for absolutely no reason whatsoever :seagull:

The board are happy with every aspect of my management (club issues). They feel the opportunities offered to the club's young players has been "a joy" to see. I'm doing EVERYTHING expected of me and much more.  

I don't expect to be a club legend any time soon, but at least give me some damned credit ffs.

Edited by ..Valhalla..
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I think I've seen this complaint before, and its one I share, but it seems to be in most cases it has gone from being far too easy to attain "club legend" status (pretty much every player to get over 50 apps for me in my FM16 saves ends up becoming a club legend) to being incredibly difficult. For example, similar to your complaint, should in the space of four seasons winning 2 Copa Del Rey and 1 La Liga with Real Sociedad not have me up there with the other manager who won trophies in the 1980s? (They really don't have that much success in their history).

I actually had Messi drop to Club Icon at Barcelona after missing a couple of penalties in the Copa and Europa finals (both of which we still won) which was the most bizarre.

Perhaps everyone else will say we're complaining about nothing, or perhaps this is something that is being tweaked for the new game, who knows?

Edited by zlatanera
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I think this also has a lot to do with the club and the heights it has reached before. In your case, before you became manager, Liverpool's highest feat was winning the Champions League, something that they had done 5 times. Not even Rafa is listed as an icon for Liverpool despite him winning the Champions League in 2005 defying all the odds.

On the flip side, I'm managing my local club, Gillingham, who I have taken from League One to winning the Premier League and Champions League. Considering the highest feat Gillingham had managed prior to me taking over was mid-table in the Championship back in the early/mid 2000's, winning the Premier League is a considerable step up and I became a club legend after I won the Champions League.

So I think it boils down to it being much, much easily to become a club icon/legend if the club you are managing hasn't really ever been successful. 

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If you look at club legends such as Ferguson (27 years) Wenger (22 years) then your periods of tenure are quite small. I suspect also it will consider achievements v expectation. Taking say a non-league club through to the premiership may be considered more of an achievement.

I agree with the post above, resignation is not something you'd expect from a loyal manager. Out of interest is Mourinho considered a legend at Chelsea?

You will need SI to confirm what factors are involved but I think its clear that you haven't been there long enough

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Good topic

I'm mid season of 2030 in my current save managing Barcelona. I took the job at the start of the 2023 season. During my time with the current club, I've won everything. When I say I've won everything, I mean I've won EVERYTHING each year: La Liga title, CL, Copa del Ray, & Club World Championship. I've brought up a s***load of homegrown players from the youth system - which has made the supporters very happy and in turn saved the board a ton of $$$ rather than signing high profile players who would hardly perform much better. The club is filthy rich (yeah I know it's Barcelona but they were a financial mess when I took over) and  have afforded me more transfer money each year than I know what to do with.

I'm currently at the top at the "Icon" list. I didn't reach Icon status until April of last season. At that point I'd won 5 straight La Liga & Champions League titles. So I'm still not breathing rarified air with the likes of Cruyff & Guardiola. Of course those two were legends as both a player and a manager whereas I can only be a manager. Yet there's two players on my current squad-that I signed in my early days at Barca- that have "Legend" status

Edited by Heywood JaBlowme
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13 hours ago, bollekewol said:

Could it be that resigning from the club cost you points? I mean, if you didn't, you would be a club legend but now you started more disliked as you resigned and returned?

I certainly believe that to be the case, but my main gripe is moving down the "favoured personnel" list immediately after winning my 3rd league title. This happened while Mo Salah, who had missed 44% of the season through injury, had been wanting to leave the club all season, putting in loads of awful performances and even missed the entire title run-in (8 games) as well as the Champions League quarter final defeat to Arsenal where his goals might have helped us progress... was elevated to club legend :rolleyes: 

He's scored exactly 100 goals for the club. Ian rush is only an icon despite winning vastly more trophies and of course being the all-time leading goalscorer...

It makes no sense at all. I don't expect to be a club legend, but I cannot fathom becoming less popular while doing every single thing that is asked of me and more.

Edited by ..Valhalla..
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The module probably needs work, but really it's down to a matter of opinion.  At huge clubs you're going to be up against every legend that has gone before.  Liverpool have quite a long list of them I'd imagine.  At these kind of clubs it seems quite difficult to battle your way into those lists.

Conversely, join a "new" club without any sort of legends or icons, and winning a league title can put you at the top.  Wouldn't say either outcome is balanced, but different strokes and all that.

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I share your frustrations. 

I took on the lowest ranked side in the national league South, Chippenham Town. 8 seasons later, I have just achieved promotion to the championship - Chippenham had never been higher then NL South. 

Operating on the lowest budget in each division I've played, I've somehow found a way to get this minnow side within one league of the Premier division. 

Realistically, getting promotion to the football league in itself would attract 'icon' status, but I'm still languishing as a 'favoured personnel'. 

Can anyone shed some light on how these statuses are decided? 

Edited by aspink3
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3 hours ago, DamianJMcGrath said:

Did they expect you to win or get further in the Champions League that season, and you didn't? 

Expectations for that season were:

Reach 1/4 final of Champions league. Achieved (Salah missed 1st KO round and 1/4 final through injury).
Top 4 of league. Won the League (salah missed last 3 months through injury).
Semi final of FA Cup. Knocked out in 5th round away to United (Salah missed match through injury).
League cup not important but won it anyway (Salah missed final through injury).

Also had a net transfer spend of around -£200m (minus £200m just to clarify, sold £240m, spent £40m approx).

Tactical approval rating of 100%, Finances rating of 80% (salaries well under control), Club philosophies rating of 100%, Board absolutely delighted by how many kids I've been developing.

And then as soon as the new season started my board approval dropped from 80% (untouchable) to 72% (very secure) before I had done anything else. Why??? That's what winding me up; board approval dropping and going lower on the  favoured personnel list for no apparent reason.

@mikenevo - it can't be that, I'm a likeable guy. I even buy all the background staff big presents at Christmas :brock:

Edited by ..Valhalla..
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2 hours ago, forameuss said:

The module probably needs work, but really it's down to a matter of opinion.  At huge clubs you're going to be up against every legend that has gone before.  Liverpool have quite a long list of them I'd imagine.  At these kind of clubs it seems quite difficult to battle your way into those lists.

Conversely, join a "new" club without any sort of legends or icons, and winning a league title can put you at the top.  Wouldn't say either outcome is balanced, but different strokes and all that.

But then we have my example: Real Sociedad have irl two La Liga (1982, 1983) and two Copa Del Rey (1909, so barely the same competition, 1987) and one Supercopa de Espana. In my first season I added 1 Copa, third season I won the league and fourth I won the Copa again, and the Supercopa. So not only have I won their first trophies in the modern era, I've won 44% of all the trophies the club has ever won. Repeatedly denied links to bigger clubs in the press as well. Surely that warrants Legend status? Or if not for me, at least one of my players who's been through it all, perhaps Inigo Martinez who has, in this save, spent his entire career so far at the club (he's over 30 now) and never once asked to leave?

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1 hour ago, zlatanera said:

But then we have my example: Real Sociedad have irl two La Liga (1982, 1983) and two Copa Del Rey (1909, so barely the same competition, 1987) and one Supercopa de Espana. In my first season I added 1 Copa, third season I won the league and fourth I won the Copa again, and the Supercopa. So not only have I won their first trophies in the modern era, I've won 44% of all the trophies the club has ever won. Repeatedly denied links to bigger clubs in the press as well. Surely that warrants Legend status? Or if not for me, at least one of my players who's been through it all, perhaps Inigo Martinez who has, in this save, spent his entire career so far at the club (he's over 30 now) and never once asked to leave?

So raise it as a bug then.  I said it needed work.

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In a save I am a well travelled manager but spent 9 years at Liverpool as manager. I won 8 Premier League Titles, 4 FA's, a Euro, and a Champion's League. The manager is referred to as Liverpool Legend in every news story at whatever club I have been with since in game.

I haven't managed them in 10 years in game and am listed 3rd on Legends List after Steven Gerrard and Bill Shankly.

I also have won with other teams(in Save).....but that is the only team I'm a Legend at.

I think manager needs to build up a winning pedigree AND spend a lot of time at a club to become a legend or Icon. I think game does pretty well at it.

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2 hours ago, Hootieleece said:

In a save I am a well travelled manager but spent 9 years at Liverpool as manager. I won 8 Premier League Titles, 4 FA's, a Euro, and a Champion's League. The manager is referred to as Liverpool Legend in every news story at whatever club I have been with since in game.

I haven't managed them in 10 years in game and am listed 3rd on Legends List after Steven Gerrard and Bill Shankly.

I also have won with other teams(in Save).....but that is the only team I'm a Legend at.

I think manager needs to build up a winning pedigree AND spend a lot of time at a club to become a legend or Icon. I think game does pretty well at it.

 

Also good points. Again though, I only really care about the fact I moved down the list of favoured personnel after winning title #3. I definitely don't expect to be a legend, and I can even accept not being an icon yet... but I'm barely favoured personnel now after my latest successful season. Grinds my gears.

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It's like RVP at Utd... when he first moved and they won the league and he was top scorer, I suspect a large section of the fanbase thought he was their favourite player... his stock would quickly fall though as it was based on instant success, not longevity or hailing from local area or from the youth academy etc.

You have played 3 seasons at Liverpool.. great achievements, but if you think of that clubs steeped history for the last 100+ years.. particularly their dominance for over a decade... you pale in comparison.

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On 27/08/2018 at 10:57, ..Valhalla.. said:

Tactical approval rating of 100%, Finances rating of 80% (salaries well under control), Club philosophies rating of 100%, Board absolutely delighted by how many kids I've been developing.

And then as soon as the new season started my board approval dropped from 80% (untouchable) to 72% (very secure) before I had done anything else. Why??? That's what winding me up; board approval dropping and going lower on the  favoured personnel list for no apparent reason.

This is an (afaik) completely separate issue that the board gives you less credit for last season's achievements in the current season. So when the season changes, their judgement of the long term aims and last season is still good, but the judgement of the current season is now you haven't done anything good (or bad) yet and they're waiting and seeing whether you achieve the aims they've set for you. The difference between 80% and 72% is tiny anyway

It's not like managers haven't been sacked after poor starts to the season despite good performances the previous season IRL...

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Favoured Personnel is a rather weird mechanic. I noticed this happening with players as well.

For instance, my current team has the following favoured personnel:

- Legends:

  • Me (16 years of rising the team from bottom amateur to two Europa League knockout rounds is enough, I assume)
  • The team's main striker for three-and-a-half years (admittedly having an amazing 147 goals in 147 games and being in the transition from semi-pro to pro)

- Icons:

  • The team's main striker for the last 9 years, and overall top goalscorer, with 362 goals in 359 games. He was actually knocked down from Legend a few seasons ago.
  • The team's left winger for 11 years, staying alongside me in all the path from amateur to professional. Holds the record for most league games (214).
  • An attacking midfielder who only played for ONE year. I admit the performance he delivered was spectacular, but it's only one year. He's not even in the Overall Best Eleven.
  • A youth rank midfielder that spent three seasons of his career in our team's starting eleven, then bailing us out to La Fiorita because they had a higher professional status, even though he was important in the team's first trophies. Not even close to Overall Best Eleven, yet he's in the same level as record-holders.

Not going to get into the Favoured Personnel level because there's a lot of them, but there are also some players that have been at the club for over 6 years, yet they are below one-season-wonders.

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There is some hidden stat behind this similar to reputation. So you earn "reputation" with the club, and something like a cup final winning goal or derby MoM can earn players massive boosts. Managers are grinding wins and trophies, so it naturally takes longer than for a player. The thresholds for Icon and Legend could also be dynamic, which adds to the confusion.

It should be harder to become a legend as a manager than as a player, in my opinion. And - harshly perhaps - I wouldn't say 5 seasons at Liverpool is enough to achieve that. But it's also clear from other cases here that it's often too hard for a manager. It all seems a little.. random. But I also know that it isn't :D

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@Nacaw - just to reiterate; I don't expect to be a club legend any time soon. My main confusion is becoming less popular the more I win, it makes no sense at all.

It's even more annoying that Mo Salah (much as I love him IRL) is now a legend despite missing virtually every important game through injury. Cup finals, title deciders, huge away games (United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal etc). He's either injured or I hook him early because he hasn't turned up. Drives me up the wall.

Edited by ..Valhalla..
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6 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@Nacaw - just to reiterate; I don't expect to be a club legend any time soon. My main confusion is becoming less popular the more I win, it makes no sense at all.

It's even more annoying that Mo Salah (much as I love him IRL) is now a legend despite missing virtually every important game through injury. Cup finals, title deciders, huge away games (United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal etc). He's either injured or I hook him early because he hasn't turned up. Drives me up the wall.

 

Yes, I understand this is frustrating, but I also understand that it's pure maths. The game is treating everyone the same, so whatever the formula is, this is the result it has produced: Salah is a legend and you are not. Because of the complexity involved, we humans are unable to establish a pattern to explain it. When we can't explain it, we get annoyed and start to question it :D  

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Just now, Nacaw said:

Yes, I understand this is frustrating, but I also understand that it's pure maths. The game is treating everyone the same, so whatever the formula is, this is the result it has produced: Salah is a legend and you are not. Because of the complexity involved, we humans are unable to establish a pattern to explain it. When we can't explain it, we get annoyed and start to question it :D  

*Insert Donald Trump saying "correct" gif here*

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4 hours ago, llDracoll said:

Favoured Personnel is a rather weird mechanic. I noticed this happening with players as well.

 

It's finicky, same with the dynamics - or I just don't understand it.

For example, in the dynamics screen it says (for me) Lindelof supports me, yet in his personal info page he thinks I'm an useless manager. :idiot:

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43 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

 

It's finicky, same with the dynamics - or I just don't understand it.

For example, in the dynamics screen it says (for me) Lindelof supports me, yet in his personal info page he thinks I'm an useless manager. :idiot:

I think in that case, the "supports" means in terms of results, style of play etc. whereas they can still think you're a ***** in terms of the individual relationship between you for other reasons such as not giving them a contract three years ago or asking them to tutor a lot of people they don't want to tutor. So for example if United turned this season around and won everything, Pogba might be listed as "supports" in Mourinho's dynamics page but would also still clearly hate him as a person.

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54 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

I think in that case, the "supports" means in terms of results, style of play etc. whereas they can still think you're a ***** in terms of the individual relationship between you for other reasons such as not giving them a contract three years ago or asking them to tutor a lot of people they don't want to tutor. So for example if United turned this season around and won everything, Pogba might be listed as "supports" in Mourinho's dynamics page but would also still clearly hate him as a person.

Fair enough. Maybe they should reword it to say "Doesn't particularly like you" or something. I think at the moment, if you're distant with a player it says 'isn't impressed with you as a manager' - which to me makes it sound like he thinks I'm bad and therefore wouldn't be the first to support me!

As for what made him distant, I have no idea! I wonder if there's a way to find out - it hasn't come from interactions or contract issues. Maybe he got annoyed with my team talks? :(

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1 hour ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Fair enough. Maybe they should reword it to say "Doesn't particularly like you" or something. I think at the moment, if you're distant with a player it says 'isn't impressed with you as a manager' - which to me makes it sound like he thinks I'm bad and therefore wouldn't be the first to support me!

As for what made him distant, I have no idea! I wonder if there's a way to find out - it hasn't come from interactions or contract issues. Maybe he got annoyed with my team talks? :(

Yeah generally they go hand-in-hand in terms of positive in club dynamics screen = acquaintance or higher on personal dynamics screen, but I've seen the odd exception like what you mentioned.

Do you guys have opposing favourite clubs? That could do it. I know it affects manager relationships, for example Jürgen Klopp is always one of my enemies at the beginning of the game as I list Manchester United as my favourite club.

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One thing I would add to this discussion - I repeatedly have seen my Reserves Manager become a Favourred Personnel due to winning their league repeatedly, at Ajax and Lyon, despite the fact that in real life I don't think anyone would care unless they took over the first team and succeeded like Pep.

For example Sebastien Hanriot has won two National-B titles with my reserves. In this time I've won Ligue 1 and reached a CL final (same season, and scored 116 goals in league alone) whilst bringing through youth. Given Lyon's history of all their league titles being won in a row, ending 10 years ago, I don't necessarily expect myself to become favourred personnel, but I don't see why the hell my reserves manager is, and why he's ranked above Lisandro Lopez who starts the game as favourred personnel before I brought him back to have a 28 goal season aged 35.

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I am not surprised you aren't a club legend in that save tbh - but it definitely is way too hard to become a legend in this years game. I have save with Blackburn, went straight up from League 1 to the PL in two seasons winning both League 1 and the championship, consolidated as a PL club finishing 17th then 13th. Qualified for the Europa League in 2022 and made an FA Cup Final in 2023. Made a Europa League and League Cup Final in 2024, won the FA Cup and Europa League in 2025 as well as finishing 4th that season, then finished 2nd and won the Champions League and am STILL only an icon despite doing all that in 9 years at the club (plus two super cups and a club world cup)

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14 hours ago, Lucas_26_7 said:

I am not surprised you aren't a club legend in that save tbh - but it definitely is way too hard to become a legend in this years game. I have save with Blackburn, went straight up from League 1 to the PL in two seasons winning both League 1 and the championship, consolidated as a PL club finishing 17th then 13th. Qualified for the Europa League in 2022 and made an FA Cup Final in 2023. Made a Europa League and League Cup Final in 2024, won the FA Cup and Europa League in 2025 as well as finishing 4th that season, then finished 2nd and won the Champions League and am STILL only an icon despite doing all that in 9 years at the club (plus two super cups and a club world cup)

If you're replying to me, yeah I don't expect to be. But my point is how the hell is my Reserves Manager favourred personnel?

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Just to update;

I finished my 4th season with Liverpool last night (6th in-game season overall) and won the lot. My trophy haul for Liverpool now includes:

4x Premier League titles
2 Champions Leagues
3 League Cups
2 European Super Cups
1 FA Cup
1 Club world Championship
1 irrelevant Community Shield

Still I languish toward the bottom of the favoured personnel list, just above a youngster and 3 players who wanted to leave the club (one of which plays for Man United now). I lost the first league game of last season 3-0 away to Chelsea and as unrealistic as it is, I went the rest of the season unbeaten in all competitions. League, League Cup, Champions League, FA Cup. The board are "very pleased" with my leadership (rating 67%). Absolute nonsense ffs.

Just out of curiosity, I saved the game then resigned and applied for a League One team. In the news item I was referred to as both a "legendary manager" and a "highly respected manager", yet as far as Liverpool are concerned I'm pretty average tbh. I realise my record is pretty unrealistic, but it's NOT impossible, and the game should reflect my achievements and give me some damn credit :seagull:

Edited by ..Valhalla..
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Interesting. I am liverpool boss at the minute, i am playing on touch PC and well into a long game; season 2073 now infact on my save and just won 3x premier leagues 3 x fa cups 2 x league cups over a 7 season period and that put me as a club icon and well up the list. This last season i won the european cup for the first time in about 40 years for the club (they fluked one in the 2030's) and that put me top of icon list then just won world club championship for first time in clubs history and im in the legend club. I can only imagine this is because liverpool had been little more than a mid to upper table side for the whole time since i arrived and had been starved of success for so long that i made it on the list as your list of honours is greater than mine.

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3 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

Just to update;

I finished my 4th season with Liverpool last night (6th in-game season overall) and won the lot. My trophy haul for Liverpool now includes:

4x Premier League titles
2 Champions Leagues
3 League Cups
2 European Super Cups
1 FA Cup
1 Club world Championship
1 irrelevant Community Shield

Still I languish toward the bottom of the favoured personnel list, just above a youngster and 3 players who wanted to leave the club (one of which plays for Man United now). I lost the first league game of last season 3-0 away to Chelsea and as unrealistic as it is, I went the rest of the season unbeaten in all competitions. League, League Cup, Champions League, FA Cup. The board are "very pleased" with my leadership (rating 67%). Absolute nonsense ffs.

Just out of curiosity, I saved the game then resigned and applied for a League One team. In the news item I was referred to as both a "legendary manager" and a "highly respected manager", yet as far as Liverpool are concerned I'm pretty average tbh. I realise my record is pretty unrealistic, but it's NOT impossible, and the game should reflect my achievements and give me some damn credit :seagull:

It is likely because you left.  

Who did you leave for?  Did you holiday or take another club?

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@jaysdailydose - Schalke, then the Belgium national team (a season at each), all the while watching Luis Enrique try desperately to destroy Liverpool. Returned as soon as the chance presented itself.

But we both know, as Liverpool supporters, that IRL if Jurgen were to win 2 titles in a row, leave for two seasons, come back and win 2 more titles (plus countless other trophies) he would be worshipped. He already IS worshipped by the masses but he hasn't won a single thing yet...

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Im now through 14 seasons with leverkusen... A striker i signed when 17 has scored something like 220 lesgue goals in 260 lg games... Has had hatricks in several european finals.. Has won the ballon d'or... Is now club captain... Not a legend... A player ive had for two seasons is a legend hes a 21 yr old winger with less than 90 games under his belt.

I am a legend tho, thankfully! 

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It's definately not right for me. I got Salford City from the Conference north to Premier League Champions in 9 years and I was still under favoured personnel and not Icon or Legend. It took me a Champions League win to get to Icon and I was only a Legend after 4 Premier League titles and 2 Champions League titles. So it took me 11 League titles (4 in the Prem), 6 promotions, 1 FA Cup, 2 Leagues Cups, 2 Champion's Leagues and around 14 years to reach Legend status.

Yet some players who have played for one season and haven't even been amongst my best players have got Icon status...

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4 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Im now through 14 seasons with leverkusen... A striker i signed when 17 has scored something like 220 lesgue goals in 260 lg games... Has had hatricks in several european finals.. Has won the ballon d'or... Is now club captain... Not a legend... A player ive had for two seasons is a legend hes a 21 yr old winger with less than 90 games under his belt.

I am a legend tho, thankfully! 

That sounds odd although i see players who have come through the juniors at a club gain legend status quick.also, players who score big goals in for example european cup final wins are quickly elevated. 

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49 minutes ago, mozza79 said:

That sounds odd although i see players who have come through the juniors at a club gain legend status quick.also, players who score big goals in for example european cup final wins are quickly elevated. 

I had Ben Woodburn score all 4 goals in our recent FA Cup Final win against Everton, he was immediately hoisted into the club legends list.

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8 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@jaysdailydose - Schalke, then the Belgium national team (a season at each), all the while watching Luis Enrique try desperately to destroy Liverpool. Returned as soon as the chance presented itself.

But we both know, as Liverpool supporters, that IRL if Jurgen were to win 2 titles in a row, leave for two seasons, come back and win 2 more titles (plus countless other trophies) he would be worshipped. He already IS worshipped by the masses but he hasn't won a single thing yet...

I would agree with you, yes, Klopper would be worshipped.  

Your problem is likely just behind the scenes math.  Like you said, you went down on the rankings...did someone else (maybe more than one) make moves up?  I'm on mobile at the moment but didnt you say Mo moved up the table?  Any other active players on it?

As to the other point (Klopp) I think even if he won what you did, many would never put him above Shankly and the other ghosts of Anfield, especially if he left and went and tooled around at Schalke and Belgium for a couple of years mid-tenure.  Some won't if he wins the Double the next three years straight!  But that's another post...;)

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@jaysdailydose - yeah Salah became a bigger legend than everyone else except Stevie G. Trent and Ox are also legends. Hendo, Woodburn, Rhian, and a few others are icons.

The Salah thing really annoys me; he's held in higher regard than Shanks and Paisley, yet I swear to all that is holy he does not deserve it. He's missed every title run-in through injury, and every major final (also through injury). Ben Woodburn tore Everton to shreds in the FA Cup final, scoring all 4 goals, became a legend on the back of that, but for no reason went back down to icon soon after.

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1 hour ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@jaysdailydose - yeah Salah became a bigger legend than everyone else except Stevie G. Trent and Ox are also legends. Hendo, Woodburn, Rhian, and a few others are icons.

The Salah thing really annoys me; he's held in higher regard than Shanks and Paisley, yet I swear to all that is holy he does not deserve it. He's missed every title run-in through injury, and every major final (also through injury). Ben Woodburn tore Everton to shreds in the FA Cup final, scoring all 4 goals, became a legend on the back of that, but for no reason went back down to icon soon after.

The reason is math.  All point totals behind the scenes, I'm sure... Woodburn played a few more games and it took his numbers down, no doubt.

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