Lower league managers section

[JR866Gunner]

Hey all,

I am sure there used to be a section dedication to lower league? has it been cleared away?

[Goncalo]

I haven't been here for ages, but yes, there used to be a forum dedicated to lower league managers. Not having it anymore is probably one of the reasons why I have stopped using these forums so often.

[bennytee]

I miss the scalding comments that the uninitiated would get in that forum.  No doubt that was one of the reasons it went

[Goncalo]

Well, you just had to stick to the guidelines. It was especially frowned upon to name players, discuss tactics, or bragging.
The main reason it went was probably because people just wouldn't want to follow the guidelines strictly and instead just wouldn't post there.

[HUNT3R]

It wasn't a general section for everyone managing in a lower league. There was a specific ethos to the entire style of playing. There are still some of us who stick by it. Right now, you can really post about lower league saves anywhere. There's GD for obvious general discussion. The players and team section can give you "tips" for who to get. The training and tactics section can help you with that. The career section can be used to post about your career.

[Goncalo]

That is still the only way I play the game. And I still have a weekly LLM 'clan' game going on with some of the old users of that forum, like mkus.

But now even The Hut is dead, so there is no 'meeting point' for all of us who like to play the game that way.

[podunkboy]

When I first joined the forum, I somehow gravitated to the LLM subforum immediately, asked a stupid question and was immediately shouted down. After that, I quietly remained, eavesdropping on their odd camaraderie, until they all seemed to wander off and the forum was taken down.   I still use many of their philosophies in my daily playing. Honestly, I couldn't tell you any of the top 100 players in the world presently, and I've likely never managed any of them. 

[Nobby_McDonald]

LLM is the most rewarding way to play the game. The forum went because it was being used less and less and less, to the point it was almost non existant, close to Saido Berahino's goalscoring record.

The Hut is still going, but like Goncalo said that is quiet now.

I think it is because a lot of the old LLaMas have grown up and matured. Some still post, others have departed for varying reasons.

[Goncalo]

I think that the average age of the LLaMas has always been higher than the average for the rest of the regular FM players.

(And your post would definitely get you in trouble in the LLM forum, Nobby )

[Nobby_McDonald]

I know. But we're not in LLM.

Average age and average IQ were both higher.

[phnompenhandy]

On 10/08/2018 at 05:04, Nobby_McDonald said:

LLM is the most rewarding way to play the game. The forum went because it was being used less and less and less, to the point it was almost non existant, close to Saido Berahino's goalscoring record.

The Hut is still going, but like Goncalo said that is quiet now.

I think it is because a lot of the old LLaMas have grown up and matured. Some still post, others have departed for varying reasons.

I spent some time there too many decades ago to remember clearly now. You Nobby were a key member of the inner circle, I remember. It's a brilliant way to play the game and since that time I've never taken hold of a league club. For me, the forum's approach to their rules was too inflexible and one reason I wandered off was because the first lower league add-on files were being produced, allowing us to start below the level of Vanarama (National League as it is now). I think you subsequently broke ranks and used them too.

 

Now, I'd say the liveliest forums for sharing lower league experiences are the Editors' Hideaway where you can find threads on starting in England at Level 10 or even Level 22, or way way down the pyramid in other nations, and the Challenges forum where there are players using the same lower league files to start from very humble beginnings and sharing their exploits.

 

Nowadays without any rules imposed by others to adhere to and always playing solo, I free myself to customise my lower league saves to maximise my own pleasure. Thus I go into the editor to fill the lowest leagues (from Level 22 in my case) with obscure villages that mean a lot to me but no one else, and create a beginning squad of 15-year olds all with CA1 and set myself rules such as never bringing in players over age 16 or only using kids that came up through my academy. Needless to say, over the last 15 years or so I've almost never made it to league status, but bumbling around the amateur levels is what it's all about for me.

[Nobby_McDonald]

On 17/08/2018 at 04:08, phnompenhandy said:

I spent some time there too many decades ago to remember clearly now. You Nobby were a key member of the inner circle, I remember. It's a brilliant way to play the game and since that time I've never taken hold of a league club. For me, the forum's approach to their rules was too inflexible and one reason I wandered off was because the first lower league add-on files were being produced, allowing us to start below the level of Vanarama (National League as it is now). I think you subsequently broke ranks and used them too.

That I did. Uncle Ron who was also a LLM stalwart created the first England level 8 file (EEE) and his aim was to create it as realistic as he could. I played a big hand in his first release testing his database before meeting my now wife when he was doing a second version and only doing a small amount of testing. I am now using Ivan Wright's level 10 database but have only loaded level 8 for my new FM18 save.

I did go back into LLM in it's latter days as the no editor rule had been relaxed, but the forum was already dying a death by that stage. I do still semi regular post at The Hut.

[turnip]

I lost my bookmark for The Hut years ago.

Sad times. Not as sad as all my top quality posting that was lost in the purge, but whatevs ]

[Guest]

On 09/08/2018 at 17:52, Goncalo said:

That is still the only way I play the game. And I still have a weekly LLM 'clan' game going on with some of the old users of that forum, like mkus.

But now even The Hut is dead, so there is no 'meeting point' for all of us who like to play the game that way.

Can’t believe LLM-Red clan is still going, have you finally moved on from FM12?

[bigmattb28]

On 09/08/2018 at 17:52, Goncalo said:

That is still the only way I play the game. And I still have a weekly LLM 'clan' game going on with some of the old users of that forum, like mkus.

But now even The Hut is dead, so there is no 'meeting point' for all of us who like to play the game that way.

Same, lower league manager here and it's all I play

[phnompenhandy]

On 21/08/2018 at 04:45, Nobby_McDonald said:

That I did. Uncle Ron who was also a LLM stalwart created the first England level 8 file (EEE) and his aim was to create it as realistic as he could. I played a big hand in his first release testing his database before meeting my now wife when he was doing a second version and only doing a small amount of testing. I am now using Ivan Wright's level 10 database but have only loaded level 8 for my new FM18 save.

I did go back into LLM in it's latter days as the no editor rule had been relaxed, but the forum was already dying a death by that stage. I do still semi regular post at The Hut.

That's the one. I started with Uncle Ron's L8, graduated onto Leo's L10 and ended up with Dan's L22. Mind you, I'm Scottish and often have a go with a LL Scottish file. I crave the day when FM allows us to combine the good LL English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish league files

[Lucas]

Always been my preferred way to play. Other areas of the forum covered it though and it did have a reputation for being hostile. Off it went when despite changes, nobody really posted.

I still remember the 0102 clan save we Zealots had fondly, I managed Port Vale in the Conference as it was, and still couldn't get them promoted  I was truly a crap manager in those days.

[Goncalo]

On 21/08/2018 at 06:33, Barside said:

Can’t believe LLM-Red clan is still going, have you finally moved on from FM12?

Oh yes. We didn't even play FM12. Our longest running save was in Italy, in FM11. We must have played that one for almost five years, until it finally got corrupted and forced us to abandon it. So we gave FM16 a brief try and then moved on to FM17, which looked a lot better. That's what we're still playing, also in Italy.

[Guest]

Of course, forget we stuck with 11 due to Pete not wanting to install Steam on his PC. 

Say hi to Michal for me.

[Goncalo]

2 hours ago, Barside said:

Of course, forget we stuck with 11 due to Pete not wanting to install Steam on his PC. 

Say hi to Michal for me.

I will
It was a long battle, but Pete was finally convinced to install Steam.

[Nobby_McDonald]

On 22/08/2018 at 19:05, Lucas said:

Always been my preferred way to play. Other areas of the forum covered it though and it did have a reputation for being hostile. Off it went when despite changes, nobody really posted.

I still remember the 0102 clan save we Zealots had fondly, I managed Port Vale in the Conference as it was, and still couldn't get them promoted  I was truly a crap manager in those days.

And me constantly taking the **** for you failing to get Port Fail back into the Football League.

[Malicious Penguin]

I liked the idea of LLM but as has been said - it was too rigid. 

I'd also add, I've always been on the fence between wanting to get a crap team to the UCL final, but also to strive for realism. Maybe it's me, but if I took over as Telford would I be able to last a decade without getting beyond L2? In my head, it's unlikely. 

[HUNT3R]

The goal has always been winning the CL with River Plate.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Goncalo said:

I will
It was a long battle, but Pete was finally convinced to install Steam.

Say hi to Pete as well then.

[phnompenhandy]

9 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I liked the idea of LLM but as has been said - it was too rigid. 

I'd also add, I've always been on the fence between wanting to get a crap team to the UCL final, but also to strive for realism. Maybe it's me, but if I took over as Telford would I be able to last a decade without getting beyond L2? In my head, it's unlikely. 

UCL final? I've never got higher than League Two and that was some years ago. Maybe if I don't buy a new version of FW for 4 or 5 years I might get to the UCL final but I very much doubt it. I mean, in terms of realism would a real Telford supporter harbour such dreams? I think League 2 in 10 years time would be more than satisfactory!

[Goncalo]

9 hours ago, Barside said:

Say hi to Pete as well then.

Of course. But you can always drop in ICQ and say hello yourself. We're still using the same channel.
After you left the clan the game pretty much became a battle between me at Inter and Michal at Milan, with Pete jumping around minor clubs until he landed a job at Lazio, but he never managed to challenge us. Juventus never quite recovered from losing you, and the only AI team that was able to keep up was Sampdoria. I still have a screenshot of what I think was your final season
 

[King Jeff]

9 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

The goal has always been winning the CL with River Plate.

Wahgerty~!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Goncalo said:

Of course. But you can always drop in ICQ and say hello yourself. We're still using the same channel.
After you left the clan the game pretty much became a battle between me at Inter and Michal at Milan, with Pete jumping around minor clubs until he landed a job at Lazio, but he never managed to challenge us. Juventus never quite recovered from losing you, and the only AI team that was able to keep up was Sampdoria. I still have a screenshot of what I think was your final season
 

We did have some cracking title races although I probably still enjoyed the challenge of trying & consistently failing to keep Pisa in Serie A in spite of the TV money bug.

[Goncalo]

9 hours ago, Barside said:

We did have some cracking title races although I probably still enjoyed the challenge of trying & consistently failing to keep Pisa in Serie A in spite of the TV money bug.

And you did an excellent job at it. IIRC, you were the first one of us to get to Serie A. I also remember how satisfying it was, after being sacked a couple of times, taking charge of Carrarese and then taking it all the way to the top level (which was what got me the job at Inter), then fighting to survive in its first season there, even though I knew I'd be moving to Inter at the end of the season. We got relegated in the final day.

[Nobby_McDonald]

On 24/08/2018 at 15:48, King Jeff said:

Wahgerty~!

:)

Poof.

[Nobby_McDonald]

On 24/08/2018 at 01:32, Malicious Penguin said:

I liked the idea of LLM but as has been said - it was too rigid. 

I'd also add, I've always been on the fence between wanting to get a crap team to the UCL final, but also to strive for realism. Maybe it's me, but if I took over as Telford would I be able to last a decade without getting beyond L2? In my head, it's unlikely. 

The only time I ever won the Champions League was in the Zealot Online Clan with Tottenham.

In solo games I did reach the Premier League with Barnet, Billericay and Newcastle Town in seperate saves and versions. With Newcastle Town I only had one season there. I never won the Champions League in a solo game.

[Malicious Penguin]

On 24/08/2018 at 10:52, phnompenhandy said:

UCL final? I've never got higher than League Two and that was some years ago. Maybe if I don't buy a new version of FW for 4 or 5 years I might get to the UCL final but I very much doubt it. I mean, in terms of realism would a real Telford supporter harbour such dreams? I think League 2 in 10 years time would be more than satisfactory!

I quite agree! I mean I usually end up either sacked or exceeding realism. I seem to get a board that's never happy with 'treading water'.

[Boltman]

I still play by old LLaMa rules, but the changes to the scouting system in FM18 have made it next to impossible. Send a scout out for six months and he comes back with one report 

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, Boltman said:

I still play by old LLaMa rules, but the changes to the scouting system in FM18 have made it next to impossible. Send a scout out for six months and he comes back with one report 

You should use player search and scout players from that. It’s your club’s database of players. It doesn’t contain everybody so doesn’t violate the old ethos IMO. 

[HUNT3R]

3 hours ago, Boltman said:

I still play by old LLaMa rules, but the changes to the scouting system in FM18 have made it next to impossible. Send a scout out for six months and he comes back with one report 

I get plenty of reports. For some reason, they don't end up in the assignment itself, but in the scouting centre every day, so you need to trawl through every player, one by one.

I see no issue with at least using the "Scouted" players section, although I don't use it myself. 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Lucas said:

You should use player search and scout players from that. It’s your club’s database of players. It doesn’t contain everybody so doesn’t violate the old ethos IMO. 

Somewhere in Scotland any angry bald man has sensed a heathen.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

2 hours ago, Barside said:

Somewhere in Scotland any angry bald man has sensed a heathen.

Wonder what happened to him. He use to love the game.

[Lucas]

3 hours ago, Barside said:

Somewhere in Scotland any angry bald man has sensed a heathen.

I agreed with it for the longest time until I was working at SI and understood the game a lot more, especially with how player search works and how things have changed for clubs IRL these days. It just no longer made any sense to me to be restricting even further, especially when the game's scouting modules became more improved and realistic (arguably, you need it now considering the scouting missions return so few players at times).

Going from a user and follower of the LLM forum to a developer on the game did change my outlook a bit towards LLM and I realised a number of the guidelines were just archaic and wrong IMO. Don't think I'm a heathen for that.

[Guest]

I don’t disagree with you although I only changed my opinion on the known players screen once we introduced the ranged attributes & longer wait for a full reveal from scouts.

[Boltman]

9 hours ago, Lucas said:

You should use player search and scout players from that. It’s your club’s database of players. It doesn’t contain everybody so doesn’t violate the old ethos IMO. 

I suppose you're right, but anything resembling a 'player search' is anathema to me, especially when you can evidently filter by attributes etc.

[jaysdailydose]

16 hours ago, Lucas said:

You should use player search and scout players from that. It’s your club’s database of players. It doesn’t contain everybody so doesn’t violate the old ethos IMO. 

I agree with this as well, and was heavily into the old ethos, and still am for my "personal" saves.  (I plan almost exclusively challenges, so I refuse to handicap myself in challenge play.  I still don't go outside my own club's database, though.) 

The way the player search functions now is supposed to be strictly your club's database, so I would see no problem with that if someone wanted to play "LLaMa ethos" in 2018.

[jaysdailydose]

6 hours ago, Boltman said:

I suppose you're right, but anything resembling a 'player search' is anathema to me, especially when you can evidently filter by attributes etc.

Sure, but your club would certainly file their own scouting information in a spreadsheet or database, and you'd certainly have access to it as manager!  

I get what you are saying, but this is information your club would definitely have and be able to accomplish of its own accord.  

It's 2018, and while you may be a lower league club, you are most assuredly not cavemen.  Your club likely owns a laptop, and would have a Google Doc at very least.  

[phnompenhandy]

11 hours ago, Boltman said:

I suppose you're right, but anything resembling a 'player search' is anathema to me, especially when you can evidently filter by attributes etc.

You don't have to use the filters though, and you can still insist on trials for all.

[Robioto]

Ah the forum where users would be berated for stepping even slightly out of line? I certainly don't miss it.

[Lucas]

I seem to remember @KUBI getting a good flame on there many times. 

[Guest]

They did not like Kubi, all before my time.

[Big Geordie]

I used to post in there a wee bit and I still play LLM style (as in starting my way up from the bottom) It's been years since I decided to start out at a PL or Championship club. I feel any success in the game has to be earned the hard way.

Shout out to iajfer. Don't know if he is still around.

[Guest]

I think Ian still runs the Hut, he hasn’t been on the SI boards for years.

[westy8chimp]

So gutted this forum doesn't exist anymore... doesn't sound pretentious, hipster or condescending at all

[Guest]

It certainly wasn’t any of those, the meetup photos certainly confirm the lack of hipster credentials.

Definately unforgiving of those who did not have the decency to read the forum rules & gameplay guidelines.