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17 hours ago, FJW said:

How would you set up a 3-4-2-1 formation? I ask as it’s such a popular formation in recent years IRL.


That's a really good question; possibly an entire thread of it's own to give a thorough answer :lol:

I love the 3-4-2-1, however it's a formation with it's own strengths and weaknesses and it doesn't necessarily suit the way I am playing with Benfica.

Personally I like 3-4-2-1 as a medium or low block pressing system. In a high-block - such as the system I play at Benfica - it suffers from only having 3 players in advanced positions to press and the double pivot is typically a little deeper than you could afford playing a 3-man midfield in a 4-3-3.

The second 'con' is that it costs me an attacking player. In recent saves, I have been trying to create a 3-1-6 in attack whereas the 3-4-2-1 naturally gives a 3-2-5 attacking shape. 3-2-5 is still a great attacking shape, but it's different to my current approach.

This is not intended to put anyone off.

Actually one of my best saves at the moment is employing a 3-4-2-1 variant but it's a very different side. 3-4-2-1 could be argued to be a very advantageous formation given the state of modern football:

  1. The ease in which it transitions between a 5-4-1 defensive shape and a 3-2-5 attacking shape.
  2. Defensively the back 5-man defence helps counter-act the tendency for modern coaches to play 2-3-5/3-2-5 attacking variants.

Hope this helps :thup:

 

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Ozil... are you going to do more on your FC United save thread? I'd be super keen to see what you've been up to. I promised to share my tactically evolution of AS Cannes on there too!

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On 30/05/2021 at 12:56, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

My idea, was to bring together a combination of the collective, high-intensity pressing and high-tempo possession played in earlier seasons, with the 3-4-3 diamond.


 


image.png.5acdc612f0e11291d7b609a6b7bc69eb.png


The idea was fairly simple:

  • The centre forward to occupy opposition defenders and act as a focal point for the attack.
  • Two high and wide wingers.
  • A midfield diamond.
  • A 3-1 diamond to build up from the back
  • Leao in an completely free role.

The mentality structure was:
 


        15
17      17      17
    17      17
        15
  15    15    15
        15


The shape also allows us to seamlessly rotate in the most talented young players at the club.


image.png.5b8ddfb70d311c26b8b2ec0a2a025ea2.png


Results were spectacular. I actually think we nearly broke the match engine :lol:


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I actually think we nearly broke the match engine :lol:


image.png.ee35c82b20b94d66d3edadf92bbcca28.png


Ultimately we stormed our way to our 13th Champions League title, equalling Real Madrid.


image.png.6cc7b5f58ed1ad83e62541692045108e.png


All the while, playing some spectacular football :applause:


481fea15aad6a54cad2b3c17dc549306.gif


67ff253b8572d890c7184ac1cbfe8be8.gif


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:applause:

 

This looks absolutely incredible :lol: :applause: 

Putting together a genuinely workable Cruyff-esque 3-4-3 has always been a goal of mine but I've never cracked it. I actually asked not long ago if you'd used a 3 at the back with this side in the hope you'd post something like this so I could nab it!

How does this 3-4-3 compare to your FM16 Cruyff 3-4-3 tactic? More or less similar to the real life Dream Team? That is, if a Football Manager side that scores 42 goals in a Champions League knockout stage can be compared in any way to anything we've seen in real life. :lol:

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On 09/06/2021 at 14:58, woodyy2r said:

Ozil... are you going to do more on your FC United save thread? I'd be super keen to see what you've been up to. I promised to share my tactically evolution of AS Cannes on there too!


Possibly. Playing an English club and a lower league side are probably the most common request.

I actually made the decision to re-run the save. Firstly, I am not particularly experienced at motoring through the football league system so I learnt a lot during my first run through which I would now like to apply. Secondly, I was using an unofficial update which unbalanced the game. Ole Gunnar Solksjaer got Manchester United relegated playing an obscure 3-1-5-1 and retrained Aaron Wan Bassaka as a striker :lol:

I've become a lot more pragmatic tactically and had to be a lot more resourceful in attracting the right players. Essentially it's almost a pre-cursor to this thread; building the foundations of a football club which took Benfica to the level they are in this save.

If I do go ahead with a thread, I would want to make it as replicable as possible; not relying on getting lucky with newgens or lucrative cup runs.
 

On 09/06/2021 at 14:58, woodyy2r said:

I'm assuming this is the 3421 tactic mentioned


Good guess! :lol:


053a6dfa533e358ab7474e4d21acf2ca.gif


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Not bad for a semi-professional, non-league side :D

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!
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On 01/06/2021 at 10:58, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Again, fairly minimal:

  • Goalkeeper distribution to centre backs
  • MCR/L and ST move into channels
  • AM roam from position

Think that's it, off the top of my head.

Yes, I actually think it would work best with a Control mentality. The weakness is clearly defence, so having the ball as much as possible mitigates that and the general formation should be able to control possession really well.

My biggest concern would be in the overall quality of the team, I would re-think if we weren't such a dominant side as the lack of wide defenders is a clear weak-spot.

Enjoy :thup:

Pretty good with control mentality!

DolbergNice.gif

Can't beat a back to front team goal with every single player involved.

Edited by ElJefe4
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Hi, it's long time i like to replicate your style of play and your youth vision but in a save in france.

English is not my first langage, i think i don't understand everything in the post.

 

I would like to play like your 4-3-3 strikerless like you but results are very poor for me. Did i miss some individuals instructions ? Or PPM for players. I don't know.

Will you change some team instruction in the game ? What's your modifications to take the adventage to the opponent ?

I like to find your secret, can you help me on that ? :D 

Thanks

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12 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Pretty good with control mentality!

DolbergNice.gif

Can't beat a back to front team goal with every single player involved.


Wonderful :applause:thank you for sharing. That Ajax side really is ready made for the 3-4-3 diamond :cool:


 

1 hour ago, Giacch said:

Hi, it's long time i like to replicate your style of play and your youth vision but in a save in france.

English is not my first langage, i think i don't understand everything in the post.

 

I would like to play like your 4-3-3 strikerless like you but results are very poor for me. Did i miss some individuals instructions ? Or PPM for players. I don't know.

Will you change some team instruction in the game ? What's your modifications to take the adventage to the opponent ?

I like to find your secret, can you help me on that ? :D 

Thanks


Maybe try posting your team so I can see what you're trying to do?

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7 hours ago, Giacch said:

That's my team looks like

 

 

image_2021-06-13_141242.png

 

image_2021-06-13_141836.png


I don't see anything badly wrong with the system. My experience that setup was high possession numbers with fairly few goals but generally dominating enough to make it over the line.

What issues are you seeing?

Squad also looks good. A few areas could do with upgrades, but I guess you're aware of that.

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Yes i'know my players needs to progress a little but when i'm playing a game, the possession it's rarely over 50% and the most of my shoots are at 10 meter of the opponent cage.

 

Did you have any set pieces ? I've looked some goals comes from set piece offive and defensive. The most of time from a small player with his head

Edited by Giacch
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10 hours ago, Giacch said:

Yes i'know my players needs to progress a little but when i'm playing a game, the possession it's rarely over 50% and the most of my shoots are at 10 meter of the opponent cage.

 

Did you have any set pieces ? I've looked some goals comes from set piece offive and defensive. The most of time from a small player with his head


That's strange. It's always a fairly extremely possession oriented system so I would not suggest going any further down the possession route if it's not working.

You could try setting up a squad view and see if you can see any obvious weak-spots.


image.png.24ea2b278c2652f6365bd661ca9c5445.png

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21 minutes ago, Giacch said:

What's the most important PPM for you ?

 

Can you give me your views for the passes pourcentage etc please ?


It's in the post above. It's a custom view on your squad screen. You can find pass percentage etc under Statistics :thup:

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Little feedback, i’ve changed instructions for some players my 2 fullback have short passing to increase her pourcentage of success passes and i add thé instruction to my wingers but in the match if her passes are under 80%. It’s everything and thats look good but i don’t have many shoots (i think it’s because my players aren’t to her Max potential) .

 

And what's the PPM of Xadas ? Plz

Edited by Giacch
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On 13/06/2021 at 13:00, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Wonderful :applause:thank you for sharing. That Ajax side really is ready made for the 3-4-3 diamond :cool:

Absolutely. Lots of very promising players and plenty of them are very versatile too. Should be an interesting save. Unfortunately the overall personality of the squad isn't the best to begin with. The senior players aren't the best tutors and lots of the B Team and U19's have less than desirable personalities.

One thing I have been contemplating a lot in the first few months of developing this squad is team shape, I'd be interested to get your thoughts on it. There's loads of good stuff in this thread about it, in particular page 9, if anyone wants to read it.

Do you select team shape purely based on the ability of your own players, or is it more to do with the ability of your own players in relation to your opponents? The reason I ask is that this Ajax side is, as always, very young on the whole. Vast majority of players are around 19-22. Whilst they're good in relation to our opponents, they're nowhere near the level of intelligence of your Very Fluid sides. With this in mind would you be more likely to go with A) a more structured shape whilst the intelligence develops or B) straight into a more fluid shape due to the weak opposition?

Edited by ElJefe4
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57 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

Absolutely. Lots of very promising players and plenty of them are very versatile too. Should be an interesting save. Unfortunately the overall personality of the squad isn't the best to begin with. The senior players aren't the best tutors and lots of the B Team and U19's have less than desirable personalities.

One thing I have been contemplating a lot in the first few months of developing this squad is team shape, I'd be interested to get your thoughts on it. There's loads of good stuff in this thread about it, in particular page 9, if anyone wants to read it.

Do you select team shape purely based on the ability of your own players, or is it more to do with the ability of your own players in relation to your opponents? The reason I ask is that this Ajax side is, as always, very young on the whole. Vast majority of players are around 19-22. Whilst they're good in relation to our opponents, they're nowhere near the level of intelligence of your Very Fluid sides. With this in mind would you be more likely to go with A) a more structured shape whilst the intelligence develops or B) straight into a more fluid shape due to the weak opposition?


Excellent question.

In most cases, my advice would be to think in absolute terms. In other words, mostly based on the absolute ability of your players, rather than their ability in relation to your opponent. Take Decisions as an example; say your guy has a decisions of 7 but your opponent has decisions of 4. Your player with will likely make better decisions than the opponent but their absolute decision making ability is still not at a level where they will consistently make good decisions.

These days I am actually using Structured styles of play a lot and getting excellent results. It's a little bit more work in the tactics creator to get compactness - mainly between midfield and defence and on the flanks - but it's far more applicable to a wider range of sides (than the 1% who can pull off Very Fluid Overload :lol:)

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@ElJefe4 I had a few saves with that Ajax side on FM18, and OP has been one of my main inspirations for FM from about the time of that game's release. Its certainly possible to play Very Fluid in the Eredivisie...but you'll get hammered in Europe as per @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! advice about "absolute" ability.

I had a lot of success using one of his Very Fluid tactics, but on Flexible team shape instead. I also think its just a great shape to start with when you're unsure. 

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