Caixa Futebol Academy: Youth Development & Adapting Tactics

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

The role I am still really interested in is the Roaming Playmaker. I have used it a bit, but never reached it's full potential. That's potentially a hybrid between the two if you have the right player.

I think in order to get the most out of a RPM, you have to play a slow possession system where you give him time to be involved in everything. I imagine him making himself available all over the pitch, playing one-two's, before eventually arriving into the final third where he looks to turn simple possession into a risky pass that unlocks the defence.

I never built a system specifically around him, but I do use him in my current "shut up shop" 4-1-4-1. It's a tactic I switch to when protecting the result, essentially trying to play zero-risk possession football. I wanted a ball-magnet to encourage more patient build-up, and with AP being too adventurous for me (sprays passes from final third) and DLP being too static (sprays passes from deep), RPM seemed like the perfect choice.

[04texag]

For some reason I can't leave comments from the desktop but only my phone. I was going to post a screenshot of my playmaker and get your opinions.  I want a combo of the rpm and APS, still trying to make it work. 

[04texag]

Here is my playmaker I signed from Mexico. He's fantastic. I've been getting pretty good performances from him. Currently training him in the AMC slot as a trequartista, but certainly would love opinions @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! on how you would use him to maximize his output. He's the best player on the team and for his second season I really want to build play/tactic around him being the heartbeat of the team.

[AndersAas]

On 23/07/2020 at 12:22, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

2024/25 Pre-Season

Another pretty quiet summer. Operating in another dead post-Brexit apocalyptic transfer window, the main agenda was selling a few of the peripheral squad players to make room for another crop of youngsters.

The saddest departure was certainly Pedro Rodrigues, who has been such a wonderful servant to the club, to Arsenal for £32m. I was hoping for a better move for Vinicius Junior, he's really ready to be the main man at one of the big European clubs, but there was really only interest from Monaco who have fallen just a little bit behind. Thiago Almada couldn't even attract a sensible bid, so he's gone out on loan with an intention to sell next summer.

Biggest news was blockbuster new contracts for all the star players at £250,000 p/w. It's a set-back against my goal of becoming a self-sustainable club as we are going to need to rely on transfer revenue for the foreseeable future, but the team is now stable, winning everything, and filling an 80,000 capacity stadium.

Following Euro 2024 and the Olympics, we had a short pre-season tour of China and have continued as we left off in the league.

At the moment, I'm not anticipating a great amount of change tactically.

Lots of new faces promoted after a successful period with Benfica B or being loaned out.

Benfica B also have a new crop, some of which have potential to contend for the first team in future years.

Academy is ticking over. Doesn't need to be spectacular at this point. Lisboa looks like a real talent.

I see that you only have 40 players overall in the screen print of wages. Have you gone away fra 22 + 16-18 + 16-18 players in your squads? Whats the numbers in each squad atm?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

5 hours ago, 04texag said:

Here is my playmaker I signed from Mexico. He's fantastic. I've been getting pretty good performances from him. Currently training him in the AMC slot as a trequartista, but certainly would love opinions @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! on how you would use him to maximize his output. He's the best player on the team and for his second season I really want to build play/tactic around him being the heartbeat of the team.

I think you're right about not using him as a deep-lying playmaker. Wonderful player, but doesn't fit his skill set. Personally, I'd use him in a really crve role. In the context of this thread, I'd be looking at the Mezzala role Xadas played or even a creative wide role similar to the way we played Jota.

 

1 hour ago, AndersAas said:

I see that you only have 40 players overall in the screen print of wages. Have you gone away fra 22 + 16-18 + 16-18 players in your squads? Whats the numbers in each squad atm?

Well spotted  I think it doesn't include Benfica B as they are an "affiliate club".

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Season 2024/25 Update

Another explosive season, once again ripping up the record books both domestically and in Europe.

Firstly, 3-time European Golden Boy winner Leão added a Ballon d'Or to his personal collection.

At this point, we are lightyears ahead of the competition in the league.

Europe has been similar.

Apologies to PSG fans 

PSG are now coached by Jose Mourinho and now line up in a star-studded 4-1-4-1 but ultimately, João Felix, Leão and Umbalo combined to pull us through a thrilling encounter.

Of course.. 

 

 

[Hattis]

Incredible numbers from Leao. Why do you think he is so effective? Is it mostly the system or does he have some stand out stats that make him so suited for the role?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

24 minutes ago, Hattis said:

Incredible numbers from Leao. Why do you think he is so effective? Is it mostly the system or does he have some stand out stats that make him so suited for the role?

Oh, yea. He's a wonderful player. I'm reluctant to say he's the best newgen we have brought through as Braima Alves and Vitor Costa have contributed more to the club but don't get the same acclaim playing at wingback and centre midfield, but he's getting very close.

I think that he hit world class last season, at 18-years old, following the switch to 4-2-4 to accommodate him as an Attacking Midfielder.

His development has been remarkably linear, improving each season and picking up more starts, goals and assists year on year. Partly his own development and partly the shift in system to get the best from him surely benefited him.

In many respects he has been lucky to fall into a near perfect set of circumstances for a young player.

1. He's clearly a very high potential player.
2. He came through at a high current ability level.
   • He managed a 6 goals and 5 assists in his first 9 league games at 16 years old.
3. He has been trained at a world class academy with world class coaches since 15 years old.
4. At the time he came through, there were opportunities for him to pick up minutes in the first team squad.
5. The squad was strong enough that there wasn't a huge amount of pressure on him in the early years.
6. He's gradually become more and more central to the team as he's developed.

Attribute wise, the Tactical training has really paid off as his anticipation, decisions, vision and off the ball are higher than anyone else his age by a long way. He was naturally an excellent dribbler with great agility, acceleration and technique. The past few years he has trained as a poacher which has added goals and now he's working on his composure, as he does actually still miss chances, and developing his weaker foot.

Once he reaches his potential - soon, I'd imagine - I think we will let him train as a playmaker to keep developing that intelligence, and to maybe get his passing and first touch up a bit.

[04texag]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! What PI does he have? He's playing as an offset AM-A, correct?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! What PI does he have? He's playing as an offset AM-A, correct?

Attacking Midfielder (Support) in a Very Fluid / Overload system which gives him higher mentality than someone with an Attack duty in the majority of other set ups.

I ask him to Get Forward More, Dribble More and Move into Channels.

João Felix offset as well means he can run wide with the ball which leaves a lot of space for Leão and creates goals similar the the first on in the Champions League final above.

[04texag]

Is leao left or right footed?

[Zendahl]

32 minutes ago, 04texag said:

Is leao left or right footed?

left footed, says on the screenshot he posted on the post above

[04texag]

Yep! Sorry, good stuff

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Yea, left footed. Although must be close to being comfortable with either foot as he has been developing his weaker foot for quite some time now.

[PT-KK]

17 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Attacking Midfielder (Support) in a Very Fluid / Overload system which gives him higher mentality than someone with an Attack duty in the majority of other set ups.

I ask him to Get Forward More, Dribble More and Move into Channels.

João Felix offset as well means he can run wide with the ball which leaves a lot of space for Leão and creates goals similar the the first on in the Champions League final above.

are there any other PI's on this? 🙂

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

19 minutes ago, PT-KK said:

are there any other PI's on this? 🙂

Pretty minimal. Off the top of my head.

• Fernandez distributes to centre backs
• Pinto is asked to dribble more
• Jota Roams from Position
• Embalo gets forward and plays narrower.

[crusadertsar]

19 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Attacking Midfielder (Support) in a Very Fluid / Overload system which gives him higher mentality than someone with an Attack duty in the majority of other set ups.

I ask him to Get Forward More, Dribble More and Move into Channels.

João Felix offset as well means he can run wide with the ball which leaves a lot of space for Leão and creates goals similar the the first on in the Champions League final above.

How would this work in FM20? Have you tested it? Because  I'm doing something similar with my Benfica team but not sure yet if it will be effective. In process of planning during our 3rd offseason.

Edited August 1, 2020 by crusadertsar

[04texag]

This issue I have with FM20 is that wingbacks and even fullbacks on support are all way too aggressive, and ball magnets to boot. In bombing forward and getting too many passes, they Rob the creative movement and passing from my front attacking 4. To help solve this I've made two changes that have helped a lot. 

My back's are now all placed on automatic, whether a fullback or wingback. That removes the hard coded get further forward. 

Then, I add two PI, hold position and dribble less. 

The results have helped a lot. The players will still get forward and even naturally overlap, but not all the time. They are much better at recycling possession to the playmakers in the middle and the attacking midfield players are freed up with more space to move around in. 

I haven't done @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Most recent formation, but my 433 and 4231 are based on formations earlier in this thread. Until I made the above changes, I could never even come close to replicating the type of play he gets. I went back and played some of my last save in FM 18 and I could do it, but FM 19 or 20 not so much. Recently, some of my results are better, and I think the wing change has helped.

Edited August 1, 2020 by 04texag

[Razor940]

Em 01/08/2020 em 16:26, 04texag disse:

This issue I have with FM20 is that wingbacks and even fullbacks on support are all way too aggressive, and ball magnets to boot. In bombing forward and getting too many passes, they Rob the creative movement and passing from my front attacking 4. To help solve this I've made two changes that have helped a lot. 

My back's are now all placed on automatic, whether a fullback or wingback. That removes the hard coded get further forward. 

Then, I add two PI, hold position and dribble less. 

The results have helped a lot. The players will still get forward and even naturally overlap, but not all the time. They are much better at recycling possession to the playmakers in the middle and the attacking midfield players are freed up with more space to move around in. 

I haven't done @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Most recent formation, but my 433 and 4231 are based on formations earlier in this thread. Until I made the above changes, I could never even come close to replicating the type of play he gets. I went back and played some of my last save in FM 18 and I could do it, but FM 19 or 20 not so much. Recently, some of my results are better, and I think the wing change has helped.

The lateral defenders are not ball magnets at all. I bet they look like it because you compress too much the space in the middle and final third so they need to pass to wide outlets. 

[04texag]

That hasn't really been the case. My issue isn't that they get the ball when recycling, it's that they get the ball too much in the approach play. The playmakers should be getting the ball in approach and finding targets. Often the ball will go out wide before the center line and the wide fullbacks will dribble it up. That's my complaint that my PIs are trying to prevent

[Razor940]

2 minutos atrás, 04texag disse:

That hasn't really been the case. My issue isn't that they get the ball when recycling, it's that they get the ball too much in the approach play. The playmakers should be getting the ball in approach and finding targets. Often the ball will go out wide before the center line and the wide fullbacks will dribble it up. That's my complaint that my PIs are trying to prevent

Show the tactic, because that's not normal at all. I play heavy possession based style and I only get that when Im compressing too much the space. And theoretically and practically the fullbacks aren't ball magnet at all, so you have some tactical problem, maybe choosing players, or ppms, something is a little bit off there.

[AndersAas]

On 23/07/2020 at 12:22, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

2024/25 Pre-Season

Another pretty quiet summer. Operating in another dead post-Brexit apocalyptic transfer window, the main agenda was selling a few of the peripheral squad players to make room for another crop of youngsters.

The saddest departure was certainly Pedro Rodrigues, who has been such a wonderful servant to the club, to Arsenal for £32m. I was hoping for a better move for Vinicius Junior, he's really ready to be the main man at one of the big European clubs, but there was really only interest from Monaco who have fallen just a little bit behind. Thiago Almada couldn't even attract a sensible bid, so he's gone out on loan with an intention to sell next summer.

Biggest news was blockbuster new contracts for all the star players at £250,000 p/w. It's a set-back against my goal of becoming a self-sustainable club as we are going to need to rely on transfer revenue for the foreseeable future, but the team is now stable, winning everything, and filling an 80,000 capacity stadium.

Following Euro 2024 and the Olympics, we had a short pre-season tour of China and have continued as we left off in the league.

At the moment, I'm not anticipating a great amount of change tactically.

Lots of new faces promoted after a successful period with Benfica B or being loaned out.

Benfica B also have a new crop, some of which have potential to contend for the first team in future years.

Academy is ticking over. Doesn't need to be spectacular at this point. Lisboa looks like a real talent.

Where have Dias and Bobsin ended up? Are they sold? I haven´t seen them in the trahsfer overview for a couple of seasons.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 05/08/2020 at 13:36, AndersAas said:

Where have Dias and Bobsin ended up? Are they sold? I haven´t seen them in the trahsfer overview for a couple of seasons.

They were both sold a few seasons earlier. Ruben Dias lost his place to Alex Pinto, who was much better for the style of play I wanted, now a squad player at Chelsea. Victor Bobsin made a £36m move to PSG to make room for Tralhao, which didn't quite work out, but ultimately worked out for the best when Florentino Luis moved to centre back and made the position his own. Looks like Bobsin is having a very solid career as a centre back now though.

[KingRoyston]

Amazing career save and thread Ozil! Inspires me to play every time I read an update! 
 

Looks like you don’t rotate too much seeing as your key players play around 50 games a season?  So my questions are:

 

Do you rest the first team before CL knockout games?  Or are you comfortable playing players in the low 90s for condition? 
 

How do you deal with happiness and match fitness for your reserves?   Are they routinely not match fit?  And does that affect their development?

 

It seems not to, as your players such as Almada etc... look to have got to great levels of ability and stats! 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

10 hours ago, KingRoyston said:

Amazing career save and thread Ozil! Inspires me to play every time I read an update! 
 

Looks like you don’t rotate too much seeing as your key players play around 50 games a season?  So my questions are:

 

Do you rest the first team before CL knockout games?  Or are you comfortable playing players in the low 90s for condition? 
 

How do you deal with happiness and match fitness for your reserves?   Are they routinely not match fit?  And does that affect their development?

 

It seems not to, as your players such as Almada etc... look to have got to great levels of ability and stats! 

Interesting question. We play roughly 62 games per season, assuming we reach the finals in all the cups, which we do tend to.

Of that, I would aim to give the first team more or less 40 games per season and the squad players about 20. More for the squad player if they are particularly competitive or look to be particularly high potential. Then obviously injuries effect that, the same as anyone else, but I think we are pretty good on that front.

Of that 40, I'd expect the first team to play close to 30 in the League and 10 in Europe.

As for rotation players, I give them both the Super Cups at the start, 2 games in the Champions League group once we have secured qualification, all of the domestic cup games during the season (including finals) and then normally at least 5-6 league games after we have won the title.

The short Portuguese season and winning the league early typically means that the first team are only playing one game per week from the Champions League Semi Final onwards. Portugal also doesn't have any crazy hectic period like late December in the UK. In fact, they have a couple of week break mid-season.

For these reasons, even without rotating much we are usually very well conditioned for the latter Champions League stages, and playing against tired opponents.

At international level, we also go pretty far into major tournaments at 100% condition because players aren't as fatigued by the season and can typically play a rotated squad for one group game.

One final point is I like to use my substitutes early. I'll often get Valentim and one other on near the 50th minute to give them time to get into the game. Then save my last one for around the 70-75th minute.

Thank you for the question. I am not sure I had ever addressed this in detail as it's very contextual to the Portuguese league.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[KingRoyston]

Thanks, great to get that insight.

I always end up buying too many high potential youngsters as I love developing young players and then rotation becomes a real nightmare! 
 

Because of that, maybe established players don’t hit the same level as they often only get maybe 30 a year.  
 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 08/08/2020 at 19:29, KingRoyston said:

Thanks, great to get that insight.

I always end up buying too many high potential youngsters as I love developing young players and then rotation becomes a real nightmare! 
 

Because of that, maybe established players don’t hit the same level as they often only get maybe 30 a year.  
 

30 isn't bad, but I think it depends on the level. Eg. if it's 24 league games and 6 champions league games that's not bad. In face would be fairly common if a first team player picks up an injury. For me however, particularly since stretching the club massively financially I have wanted quite a lot out of the first team.

[KingRoyston]

I am attempting to in-still your principles on a save with AC Milan on FM18.  
 

A big challenge as the starting squad is a mess with no short term fixes as they made a ton of rubbish deals early in the summer which are long terms turning into over valued transfers. 
 

Has taken me 3 years to build a squad even close to be able to play this way.  
 

End goal is to recreate the Sacchi days style in a ultra aggressive 4-4-2 which is basically what you are currently using. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

14 hours ago, KingRoyston said:

I am attempting to in-still your principles on a save with AC Milan on FM18.  
 

A big challenge as the starting squad is a mess with no short term fixes as they made a ton of rubbish deals early in the summer which are long terms turning into over valued transfers. 
 

Has taken me 3 years to build a squad even close to be able to play this way.  
 

End goal is to recreate the Sacchi days style in a ultra aggressive 4-4-2 which is basically what you are currently using. 

Yea, squad building is probably one of the more challenging elements. For sure.

[skyline72]

48 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Yea, squad building is probably one of the more challenging elements. For sure.

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Do you train their technical or mental first?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, skyline72 said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Do you train their technical or mental first?

I train pretty much exactly as outlined in the early posts. That's actually something which has held pretty consistently through the development of this thread.

Heavy Tactics team training has worked a particularly well. I find that Anticipation and Decisions influence every facet of the game and can clearly see the benefit of this training in these attributes. We have one of the most talented but easily the most intelligent squad in Europe.

Alongside this I typically use Individual Role or Attribute training to iron out any weaknesses in a players game and then optimise their development - ideally - for a couple of different roles within the side.

[zlatanera]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I'm curious, how many players do you currently have loaned out? How many is the most you've had on loan for one season with Benfica?

One of the things that killed my interest in my Lyon save was having too many players to find a home for (and despite not having the Brazilian leagues loaded, 3 Brazilian playmakers fighting for one backup AMC slot).

[zlatanera]

On 08/08/2020 at 10:38, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Interesting question. We play roughly 62 games per season, assuming we reach the finals in all the cups, which we do tend to.

Of that, I would aim to give the first team more or less 40 games per season and the squad players about 20. More for the squad player if they are particularly competitive or look to be particularly high potential. Then obviously injuries effect that, the same as anyone else, but I think we are pretty good on that front.

Of that 40, I'd expect the first team to play close to 30 in the League and 10 in Europe.

As for rotation players, I give them both the Super Cups at the start, 2 games in the Champions League group once we have secured qualification, all of the domestic cup games during the season (including finals) and then normally at least 5-6 league games after we have won the title.

The short Portuguese season and winning the league early typically means that the first team are only playing one game per week from the Champions League Semi Final onwards. Portugal also doesn't have any crazy hectic period like late December in the UK. In fact, they have a couple of week break mid-season.

For these reasons, even without rotating much we are usually very well conditioned for the latter Champions League stages, and playing against tired opponents.

At international level, we also go pretty far into major tournaments at 100% condition because players aren't as fatigued by the season and can typically play a rotated squad for one group game.

One final point is I like to use my substitutes early. I'll often get Valentim and one other on near the 50th minute to give them time to get into the game. Then save my last one for around the 70-75th minute.

Thank you for the question. I am not sure I had ever addressed this in detail as it's very contextual to the Portuguese league.

 

On 08/08/2020 at 19:29, KingRoyston said:

Thanks, great to get that insight.

I always end up buying too many high potential youngsters as I love developing young players and then rotation becomes a real nightmare! 
 

Because of that, maybe established players don’t hit the same level as they often only get maybe 30 a year.  
 

Its funny, in my FM19 Lyon save I started out more like in OP's quote - Nabil Fekir made 27 league appearances out of 38 due to repeated injuries vs. Strasbourg, but then I rapidly improved my squad depth to such a case that I ended up quite literally rotating my entire outfield on a game-by-game basis. So that even players the quality of Amine Gouiri played a maximum of 20 league games a season (and only made 33 starts in a season where we reached the finals of everything we were in). 

There's definitely merit to both ways of doing things. My players are never going to pick up the Ballon d'Or or even a league golden boot (Gouiri did nab the CL one), but then if we get an injury it barely affects us: Brazil's starting full backs are my backups, and if Gouiri had succumbed to injury his direct replacement is a Brazilian version of Zlatan Ibrahimovic who is valued at £72m. I never found any complaints with playing time either, except for goalkeepers (understandable given the 'Cup Goalkeeper' contract status wasn't brought in until FM20).

It does suck a little looking through the history of my world-beaters and seeing them never cracking 15 league goals per season though.

Edited August 13, 2020 by zlatanera

[retrodude09]

This could be a question thats been answered before, but looking at how Joao Felix has performed as a False 9 is very impressive so I was curious as to what kind of PPMs you look to teach a F9? 

[MShing]

23 minutes ago, retrodude09 said:

This could be a question thats been answered before, but looking at how Joao Felix has performed as a False 9 is very impressive so I was curious as to what kind of PPMs you look to teach a F9? 

It would depend on your teams style of play, the players individual attributes and the types of players around him. Eg. There would be no point asking a player to dribble through the centre more if his dribbling attribute was low.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

14 hours ago, zlatanera said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I'm curious, how many players do you currently have loaned out? How many is the most you've had on loan for one season with Benfica?

One of the things that killed my interest in my Lyon save was having too many players to find a home for (and despite not having the Brazilian leagues loaded, 3 Brazilian playmakers fighting for one backup AMC slot).

Very few, for precisely the reason you mentioned above. At one point I had a lot, but wasn't getting much out of it.

Off the top of my head, I am using it for:

• Players close, but not quite first team standard.
• Players who are first team standard but I have too many options in their position but am not sure about selling.
• Players I want to sell but cannot get attractive offers for in the slow, post-Brexit transfer market.

I was previously using it to try to build a player's value before selling but didn't have much luck.

 

9 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

This could be a question thats been answered before, but looking at how Joao Felix has performed as a False 9 is very impressive so I was curious as to what kind of PPMs you look to teach a F9? 

João Felix has gone from strength to strength in recent years. Ultimately he's probably the most talented player for a team which has really gone beyond dominance, playing in a fairly weak league.

He benefits having been bred for the role from a young age and has grown into it. More so than Player Traits - to me - is the broader tactical system. He benefits from the collective overload. It puts him on a high mentality, along with everyone around him, dominates games with their pressing and creates a huge number of chances, many of which he gets on the end of.

I still think he's going to be overtaken by Leão from the 10 spot though 

[Sharkn20]

This might inspire you, different touch and country but he is in spot on in most of the HOY and personality search.

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sharkn20

[FranGELP22]

Hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! are you going to switch to FM 21 or you will stay with FM 18?

Greetings from Argentina

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 03/09/2020 at 02:47, FranGELP22 said:

Hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! are you going to switch to FM 21 or you will stay with FM 18?

Greetings from Argentina

Hello, greetings from South Sudan at the moment! 

At the moment, I am currently undecided. I did eventually buy FM2020 but have honestly barely touched it. At the moment I am enjoying playing Overload mentality and using Team Shape to modify playing style and seeing some spectacular football. The downside is, of course, the database is getting more and more out of date so I am not totally sure what I'll do. Honestly, the next few months is looking hectic so playing time is likely to be limited anyway.

Eventually I am sure I will be forced to upgrade 

[FranGELP22]

13 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Hello, greetings from South Sudan at the moment! 

At the moment, I am currently undecided. I did eventually buy FM2020 but have honestly barely touched it. At the moment I am enjoying playing Overload mentality and using Team Shape to modify playing style and seeing some spectacular football. The downside is, of course, the database is getting more and more out of date so I am not totally sure what I'll do. Honestly, the next few months is looking hectic so playing time is likely to be limited anyway.

Eventually I am sure I will be forced to upgrade 

Thanks for answering, i understand that you don't like the changes on tactics in the recents fm editions, but i will be awesome to see the magic you can make in fm 21, you will have the latest database  and will be awesome a new topic about tactics or a new save. The topics that you made were really helpful for me to understand better the game, even that were made in older versions of the game, but like i said it will be nice to see what you can achieve with the new  fm. Looking forward to the next Benfica update in this topic.

[zlatanera]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Out of curiosity, do you score many goals from set pieces? Asking as on FM19 when attempting a similar style of play I sometimes wonder how things would go if I didn't have my corner and throw routines to break open the minnows and allow the ravaging to begin. Although obviously you have to get into a position to win those set plays in the first place and I play on Key Highlights so might be missing some beautiful but unsuccessful spells of possession.

For example I'm currently on a 79 game unbeaten streak with my Roma side. In the current season in all comps we have play 19 games scoring 59 goals: 9 from corners, 6 from free kicks, and 3 penalties: 30% of our total goals (25% minus penalties). If it somehow recorded goals from throw-ins (and not just long throws) it would presumably be even higher, and that seems quite high already. 

In the previous season, we won the treble (Serie A, Coppa Italia, Champions League) and Supercoppa playing a slightly more direct tactic (my current one draws more inspiration from yours and averages 5% more possession). 57 games, 155 goals: 19 corners, 15 free kicks, 9 penalties or 28% (22%). So still high.

If I look at the past season of my Ajax save we played 55 and scored 155: 15 corners, 9 free kicks, 14 penalties,. Still 25% (15%) of our total, although with a bigger skew towards penalties perhaps due to Ajax 18/19 being significantly better than their domestic competitors (the previous season we tied the 1985/86 Eredivisie record for goals in a season, when Marco van Basten scored 37 goals in 26 games) and not favourites for the majority of Champions League games, thus having more space to counter into.

I'm interested to hear if you have been similar in your approach and/or results, or if you found it possible to rack up those insane stats from open play 

Edited September 8, 2020 by zlatanera

[Robson 07]

On 10/06/2020 at 10:57, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Take Pep Guardiola's recent Manchester City and Bayern Munich teams as an example. It's pretty clear that they play extremely disciplined possession football; both teams very much play to his instruction, but at the same time everyone contributes to the team as a collective.

In Football Manager 2018 this would be very simple:

1. Control mentality
2. Lots of Support duties
3. Highly Structured team shape

You'd have extremely disciplined, possession football where everyone contributes to the team collective.

In Football Manager 2020 you'd use a Positive team mentality and then:

• EITHER select Support duties, giving you a Very Fluid shape.. which doesn't do anything anyway. Maybe say "Be more Disciplined".
  • I have no idea how this would play, but it's extremely messy.
• OR select a mixture of Attack, Defend or Support duties to get Highly Structured but then your players no longer have players playing as a collective unit; attackers would attack, defenders would defend etc.
  • I think this would get you a very different style of play.

I'm so far behind in the tactics thread I'm quoting up posts that are 3 months old.  This was part of an interesting exchange.

Curious that you didn't go the other way for FM19 or 20 e.g.

• Cautious Mentality
• Support roles giving a Fluid shape
• Maybe say "Be more Expressive"

To this day that isn't too far away from how WWFan went about Pep's teams, albeit Barcelona, years ago.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 08/09/2020 at 04:02, zlatanera said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Out of curiosity, do you score many goals from set pieces? Asking as on FM19 when attempting a similar style of play I sometimes wonder how things would go if I didn't have my corner and throw routines to break open the minnows and allow the ravaging to begin. Although obviously you have to get into a position to win those set plays in the first place and I play on Key Highlights so might be missing some beautiful but unsuccessful spells of possession.

For example I'm currently on a 79 game unbeaten streak with my Roma side. In the current season in all comps we have play 19 games scoring 59 goals: 9 from corners, 6 from free kicks, and 3 penalties: 30% of our total goals (25% minus penalties). If it somehow recorded goals from throw-ins (and not just long throws) it would presumably be even higher, and that seems quite high already. 

In the previous season, we won the treble (Serie A, Coppa Italia, Champions League) and Supercoppa playing a slightly more direct tactic (my current one draws more inspiration from yours and averages 5% more possession). 57 games, 155 goals: 19 corners, 15 free kicks, 9 penalties or 28% (22%). So still high.

If I look at the past season of my Ajax save we played 55 and scored 155: 15 corners, 9 free kicks, 14 penalties,. Still 25% (15%) of our total, although with a bigger skew towards penalties perhaps due to Ajax 18/19 being significantly better than their domestic competitors (the previous season we tied the 1985/86 Eredivisie record for goals in a season, when Marco van Basten scored 37 goals in 26 games) and not favourites for the majority of Champions League games, thus having more space to counter into.

I'm interested to hear if you have been similar in your approach and/or results, or if you found it possible to rack up those insane stats from open play 

Nice work!

We score a reasonable amount of goals from set-pieces. I would actually put this down to the ultra-intense style of play creating a lot of chances and therefore a lot of corners. Then we manage to convert some of them.

Our team is very small, so my typical approach is to play the ball short to Jota, who is incredibly creative and two-footed so very unpredictable. He can either cut back and cross, go to the byline and cross or take on the defender and potentially cause havoc.

Then I try to create some options for him in or around the box. Pinto at the far post, Joao Felix or Leao on the edge of the area or Dantas deeper.

I am actually pretty conservative in that I'll have multiple men back as - given the low conversion rate - I am quite happy to keep possession and attack again.

 

On 09/09/2020 at 18:25, Robson 07 said:

I'm so far behind in the tactics thread I'm quoting up posts that are 3 months old.  This was part of an interesting exchange.

Curious that you didn't go the other way for FM19 or 20 e.g.

• Cautious Mentality
• Support roles giving a Fluid shape
• Maybe say "Be more Expressive"

To this day that isn't too far away from how WWFan went about Pep's teams, albeit Barcelona, years ago.

Yes, there is a school of thought that cautious mentalities result in very high possession numbers, but for me it quickly becomes possession for the sake of possession.

I have mentioned a number of times earlier in this thread how I dislike having my playmaker on any mentality lower than positive (11+ in FM2018 terms) due to all the sideways and backwards passes.

I have the utmost respect for WWFan's work, but we have a difference in opinion on this one. Which is fine, ultimately the whole topic is very subjective and we see this one differently.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On another note, apologies for the lack up recent updates. Work and work-related travel have taken over lately. I have played out the next season but haven't had the chance to write it up and am on a terrible internet connection. Will update when possible 

[jcmangoo27]

Ö-zil to the Arsenal - thank you for this, you are a genius. I have been playing these wretched games since early 90s, your advice after 2-3 years of struggle on 2016 was immense, and I’ve just spent the week reading this thread, started with Napoli, P8 W7 D1, and just one goal conceded, thank you brother!

[XITOLHO]

first of all great thread, been reading it a lot for the past days and i have some questions for you o-zil. i want to try the "the 1970" tactic in fm, what PI are you using? thanks

[kandersson]

Good to see this thread going on, always a great read - as usual with @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Of course it wasn't the purpose of this thread, but the latest 424/1970 might also be a good base for a recreation of Flick's tactics at Bayern? Overload/very fluid, exploit the middle, IF/IW and of course Leao : Muller = Felix : Lewandowski 

[ElJefe4]

On 18/09/2020 at 09:03, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

On another note, apologies for the lack up recent updates. Work and work-related travel have taken over lately. I have played out the next season but haven't had the chance to write it up and am on a terrible internet connection. Will update when possible 

Looking forward to the update. After dabbling with Ajax for a while I've decided to use this thread as inspiration to build something long term with Lyon, who seem to be a popular choice due to their youth set up. Equally as inspired by your total football thread, which is forming the basis of the tactic I'm trying to implement. Few things need ironing out as I'm sure you'd expect given your qualms with the current tactics creator, but your explanations have helped me understand the game a lot more so hopefully I'll get there soon enough.

I won't hijack this thread with all of that though, I do actually have a couple of questions about youth development (apologies if you've covered this before and I've missed it). First one is a bit strange - Lyon start with a lot of young players, I've followed your advice of trying to limit the amount of players in the youth teams in order to afford enough game time to those who actually have a chance of developing. Unfortunately I didn't actually load the league that the Lyon reserve team plays in, so all of the games are listed as friendlies. Do you have any idea if this will have a negative impact on their development? I'm unsure if the squad is technically not playing 'competitive' football in Season 1 and as such won't develop as quickly? I'm seeing rapid improvements in players in the Under 19 squad, but not so much in my reserve squad. In fact, some of them even seem to be regressing.

The second question is about loans. When looking to loan a player out, do you pay any attention to the style of play of the team he goes to? Is a player more likely to develop as I want him to in a team playing a similar style of football to myself, or is game time the absolute priority for you? The reason I ask is that I have a promising young forward who I loaned out to Real Sporting (I think). He was promised regular playing time in the Spanish second division so I agreed without too much thought. It's only when I noticed that he's only scored a couple of goals by November (my scouts give him 2.5* CA so I'd actually expect him to score a handful in the top divisions) that I looked into Real Sporting's tactics to see that they play a very defensive 442 that has them rock bottom of the league. What are your thoughts on playing time vs playing style? Would he have been better off playing slightly less but at a side that plays attacking football? Or perhaps even at a lower level but in an attacking side? I'm not actually a massive fan of loans but given the amount of players I have I'll probably have to use them regularly for the first couple of years so would like to know how best to utilise them.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

23 hours ago, jcmangoo27 said:

Ö-zil to the Arsenal - thank you for this, you are a genius. I have been playing these wretched games since early 90s, your advice after 2-3 years of struggle on 2016 was immense, and I’ve just spent the week reading this thread, started with Napoli, P8 W7 D1, and just one goal conceded, thank you brother!

 Fantastic. Thank you for sharing. Yes, Napoli (particularly in FM 2018) have one of the best squads for implementing this style of play right from the get go. Good luck!

 

8 hours ago, kandersson said:

Good to see this thread going on, always a great read - as usual with @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Of course it wasn&

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

23 hours ago, jcmangoo27 said:

Ö-zil to the Arsenal - thank you for this, you are a genius. I have been playing these wretched games since early 90s, your advice after 2-3 years of struggle on 2016 was immense, and I’ve just spent the week reading this thread, started with Napoli, P8 W7 D1, and just one goal conceded, thank you brother!

 Fantastic. Thank you for sharing. Yes, Napoli (particularly in FM 2018) have one of the best squads for implementing this style of play right from the get go. Good luck!

 

8 hours ago, kandersson said:

Good to see this thread going on, always a great read - as usual with @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Of course it wasn't the purpose of this thread, but the latest 424/1970 might also be a good base for a recreation of Flick's tactics at Bayern? Overload/very fluid, exploit the middle, IF/IW and of course Leao : Muller = Felix : Lewandowski 

Yes, I did notice that during the Champions League final and the Barca match. To be honest, last season was such an odd season, it's really difficult to say much but yes I would agree the shape is similar.

I'd say Leao and Felix are positionally similar to Muller and Lewandowski but are quite different players. Leao is now 3-time Balon d'Or winner at 20 years old and has actually now overtaken Mbappe as the heir to the Messi-Ronaldo throne.

The lop-sided front 4 is really effective. When I do finally get the chance to write an update, it'll be focused on this. I actually did it once again inspired by the article on the Pele, punta de lanca role I have shared previously hence 'the 1970' but it's really ended up being it's own thing.

It's obviously also a lot of fun to play a very fluid 4-2-4 on overload with a golden generation squad 
 

6 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Looking forward to the update. After dabbling with Ajax for a while I've decided to use this thread as inspiration to build something long term with Lyon, who seem to be a popular choice due to their youth set up. Equally as inspired by your total football thread, which is forming the basis of the tactic I'm trying to implement. Few things need ironing out as I'm sure you'd expect given your qualms with the current tactics creator, but your explanations have helped me understand the game a lot more so hopefully I'll get there soon enough.

I won't hijack this thread with all of that though, I do actually have a couple of questions about youth development (apologies if you've covered this before and I've missed it). First one is a bit strange - Lyon start with a lot of young players, I've followed your advice of trying to limit the amount of players in the youth teams in order to afford enough game time to those who actually have a chance of developing. Unfortunately I didn't actually load the league that the Lyon reserve team plays in, so all of the games are listed as friendlies. Do you have any idea if this will have a negative impact on their development? I'm unsure if the squad is technically not playing 'competitive' football in Season 1 and as such won't develop as quickly? I'm seeing rapid improvements in players in the Under 19 squad, but not so much in my reserve squad. In fact, some of them even seem to be regressing.

The second question is about loans. When looking to loan a player out, do you pay any attention to the style of play of the team he goes to? Is a player more likely to develop as I want him to in a team playing a similar style of football to myself, or is game time the absolute priority for you? The reason I ask is that I have a promising young forward who I loaned out to Real Sporting (I think). He was promised regular playing time in the Spanish second division so I agreed without too much thought. It's only when I noticed that he's only scored a couple of goals by November (my scouts give him 2.5* CA so I'd actually expect him to score a handful in the top divisions) that I looked into Real Sporting's tactics to see that they play a very defensive 442 that has them rock bottom of the league. What are your thoughts on playing time vs playing style? Would he have been better off playing slightly less but at a side that plays attacking football? Or perhaps even at a lower level but in an attacking side? I'm not actually a massive fan of loans but given the amount of players I have I'll probably have to use them regularly for the first couple of years so would like to know how best to utilise them.

Nice work 

A few have used Lyon earlier in the thread and built some great sides.

In response to your questions, yes, I would expect non-competitive football to have an impact on a young player's development, unfortunately. Particularly at 18 or over.

And, no. I don't really look at the style of play the club they go to plays. In an ideal world it would be nice to see players play as a club which suits them or plays a similar style of play, so I will go with any stand out options, of course, but I really don't lose any sleep over it. Ultimately if they're getting game time at as high a level as they can handle, I'm pretty happy.