Caixa Futebol Academy: Youth Development & Adapting Tactics

[Garrlor]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

So you mentioned about looking into Newgen development. I think that it would be a really good thing for the thread to be honest, because you can pick one of your best rated newgens and follow him. That way you can chart his path into the first team, talk about his training, PPM's and how you forsee him fitting into your side and the style of play you are looking to encourage. Something like that across 4-5 seasons might be really usefull for some people as they can see how much planning and thought goes into these things, also how the player affects the mentalitiy and shape that you play. One of the things people often overlook is how PPM's affect a players posistion and actions so you can describe why you give players a PPM and what you expect to see happen with those PPM's etc. Just a thought mate, you already provide some cracking stuff!

I am glad you have moved away from your previous tactic, something about it just didnt sit well with me to be honest. Nothing structurally but it just seemed.... unnatural after your free flowing 4-3-3's and 4-2-3-1. But I guess that is the price that you pay for transistion and trying to move to a state of running at a profit without selling players while still challenging for the top honours. Ill bet that despite your hard work the portugese league is still lagging reputationally due to the other teams there not doing an amazing job on the continent. Which means it's still a struggle to keep your best players, pay good wages etc.

@denen123 Looking at the tactic you posted and your discussion  with @zlatanera I think the biggest strength of your tactic is using the PPM's of your players. I can see what you are trying to do with it off the bat, Mane and Lallana as a mobile pressing front, then a solid midfield 4 in defence. The reason you can use Su duties is down to the PPMs your players have I would think mate. You have good dribblers and probably have players with runs with ball often, gets forward whenever possible, cuts inside from left etc etc. In FM19 starting a player like Salah further back means he acts a lot more like an IF in FM18. I remember trying it with Martial and he was absolutely brutal starting from deep and running at players or making off the ball runs. Playing an attacking mentality with players that like to attack, even on support mentalities should see you overload the opposition from deep, defeating some of the ME issues with FM19.

@Robson 07 If you find my random dribblings worth quoting, then thanks lol .

 

[Robson 07]

On 29/09/2019 at 11:13, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Yes, I do appreciate that  My bigger disappointment is the control forfeited through the automatic designation of Team Shape based on duty and the resulting confusion as to whether shape is now just a label or still influences individual mentalities. One earlier thread saw SI staff and Moderators saying it is just a label but evidence from the Tactics Creator to the contrary. It's very sloppy.

It would be a huge shame not to see you evolve with future versions of the game.  I'm sure I speak for a lot of people in saying that.

You might be surprised at the scope it does allow you.  Possibly more fun than you imagine it is.

[denen123]

This is my team's new shape. It's evolved after reading this thread. I'd like you to tap into Mr @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! . we need your insight(no pressure). 

I hope 20 does us a whole lot of good. Too many issues(maybe it's just me) with 19.

[denen123]

*tap into FM19, is what i meant.

[Jean0987654321]

3 hours ago, denen123 said:

*tap into FM19, is what i meant.

Don't see a problem there. How's the results?

[Lira95]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I'm intending to use your dutch 4-3-3 but with the DLP in the DM spot. Do you think it will change the team style a lot? 

[denen123]

10 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Don't see a problem there. How's the results?

To be quite sincere, although it's nice to see regular goal patterns & all, I'm disappointed in how quickly the opposition get back & assume a compact shape(far from realistic). Also, their full backs can't possible be Marcelo/Dani Alves that he counter Chiesa, a lot. Wingers suffer on FM. Is there a need for this IF role? Maybe i'm merely frustrated, but come on, i have modified to act like playmaker rather than heir to 07-8 CR7. He shoots too much. But, I've gotten enough headed goals( Fabinho has PPM that makes him fall into box to create an extra body). Scored an average of 2 goals per game in last 7 matches, possession of 58+%, on average. Hardly concede shots(my CB's are too fast, it's nearly impossible to run them down, But I'm not, in anyway, happy with how defensively good my opponent are. They can't all be prime Chelsea anytime we play against them. My striker get load of goals too. 5 in last 7, using the tactic. Might update you on more but I'll say, Liverpool have foundation for growing players, in FM19. They have World class old, and potential young. Plus their Full backs are top, so no need running around looking for the decent ones. 

[robot_skeleton]

21 hours ago, denen123 said:

This is my team's new shape. It's evolved after reading this thread. I'd like you to tap into Mr @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! . we need your insight(no pressure). 

I hope 20 does us a whole lot of good. Too many issues(maybe it's just me) with 19.

He said he wouldn't play with these latest games unless some significatnt changes are made to the tactic creator which they probably won't do. I asked him this because I was also interested.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 01/10/2019 at 01:26, Garrlor said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

So you mentioned about looking into Newgen development. I think that it would be a really good thing for the thread to be honest, because you can pick one of your best rated newgens and follow him. That way you can chart his path into the first team, talk about his training, PPM's and how you forsee him fitting into your side and the style of play you are looking to encourage. Something like that across 4-5 seasons might be really usefull for some people as they can see how much planning and thought goes into these things, also how the player affects the mentalitiy and shape that you play. One of the things people often overlook is how PPM's affect a players posistion and actions so you can describe why you give players a PPM and what you expect to see happen with those PPM's etc. Just a thought mate, you already provide some cracking stuff!

I am glad you have moved away from your previous tactic, something about it just didnt sit well with me to be honest. Nothing structurally but it just seemed.... unnatural after your free flowing 4-3-3's and 4-2-3-1. But I guess that is the price that you pay for transistion and trying to move to a state of running at a profit without selling players while still challenging for the top honours. Ill bet that despite your hard work the portugese league is still lagging reputationally due to the other teams there not doing an amazing job on the continent. Which means it's still a struggle to keep your best players, pay good wages etc.

Right, OK. Let me have a think about how to manage the Newgen aspect. Thanks.

The decision to transition the previous team out was a difficult one. Due to their high professionalism, nobody desperately wanted to leave. The difficulty was that the club's financial model is so dependent on sales that we couldn't sustain that squad as their wages would have hit a Real Madrid-esq level. I also worry that offering those big contracts makes it difficult to sell, so you're limiting your potential revenue and taking on more risk.

Not to mention that the quality of that squad was limiting opportunity for the academy and just the realism factor of wanting to see what this group could go off and achieve around Europe.

 

On 05/10/2019 at 09:24, Robson 07 said:

It would be a huge shame not to see you evolve with future versions of the game.  I'm sure I speak for a lot of people in saying that.

You might be surprised at the scope it does allow you.  Possibly more fun than you imagine it is.

I will consider it. I certainly won't dismiss it out of hand. I'll have a look at the demo interface, but at the same time I'm not making any promises 

 

21 hours ago, Lira95 said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I'm intending to use your dutch 4-3-3 but with the DLP in the DM spot. Do you think it will change the team style a lot? 

Hardly at all. You'll notice the defensive line a little deeper and the midfield 3 will have a little less width.

[Garrlor]

6 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Right, OK. Let me have a think about how to manage the Newgen aspect. Thanks.

The decision to transition the previous team out was a difficult one. Due to their high professionalism, nobody desperately wanted to leave. The difficulty was that the club's financial model is so dependent on sales that we couldn't sustain that squad as their wages would have hit a Real Madrid-esq level. I also worry that offering those big contracts makes it difficult to sell, so you're limiting your potential revenue and taking on more risk.

Not to mention that the quality of that squad was limiting opportunity for the academy and just the realism factor of wanting to see what this group could go off and achieve around Europe.

Interesting reasoning there mate. I completely understand wanting to get the club to stand on its own feet as quickly as possible, and lets me honest making 1 billion in 2 seasons will certainly help that. The best part is you kept some world class players around, some top class ones (Almada etc) and created a route into the first team for your young stars. Getting the wage bill down and keeping it down is something I always struggle with, but I guess with a more proffesional squad you dont have to worry so much about players whining over game time or new contracts (one of the many blights of FM19).

Turning back to the Ponta De Lanca, what sort of PPM's would you encourage? Plays one twos, runs with the ball more often I can see working as you need a smart player who makes good decisions to use them both together and it fits the hybrid creator/goalscorer role.

[Armistice]

Hey this might be a bit of an unusual question but how have you come so far knowing so much about tactics? I mean how did you start, what did you read to improve your tactical knowledge, how did you learn the game mechanics and its tools? Is it all about practice really?

[_neallyons_]

Enjoying this thread massively. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by _neallyons_

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 07/10/2019 at 02:06, Garrlor said:

Interesting reasoning there mate. I completely understand wanting to get the club to stand on its own feet as quickly as possible, and lets me honest making 1 billion in 2 seasons will certainly help that. The best part is you kept some world class players around, some top class ones (Almada etc) and created a route into the first team for your young stars. Getting the wage bill down and keeping it down is something I always struggle with, but I guess with a more proffesional squad you dont have to worry so much about players whining over game time or new contracts (one of the many blights of FM19).

Turning back to the Ponta De Lanca, what sort of PPM's would you encourage? Plays one twos, runs with the ball more often I can see working as you need a smart player who makes good decisions to use them both together and it fits the hybrid creator/goalscorer role.

Yea, exactly. The plan is to encourage the board to reinvest the transfer revenue into the stadium and facilities. The larger part has been downsizing the wage bill to fit the club's financial capabilities and to become more sustainable. I use the term 'more' because whatever happens, performances are going to drive wages up to a level beyond what the club can sustain but I think it's important to keep the squad pretty lean and lots of space for players coming through.

The Ponta de Lança role is something I'd still like to experiment with. I love the idea of someone intelligent enough to drop deep to get the ball and then drive forward in attack but also exploit the space created by the movement of the striker.

 

On 08/10/2019 at 20:32, Armistice said:

Hey this might be a bit of an unusual question but how have you come so far knowing so much about tactics? I mean how did you start, what did you read to improve your tactical knowledge, how did you learn the game mechanics and its tools? Is it all about practice really?

That's a very big question!  the main thing I'd say is to try to keep it simple and try to relate it to real football. The single thing that's benefited me the most has been to have the attitude that I am going to use the Tactics Creator and Match Engine to work something out for myself, rather than use a forum or various blogs and get given - an often not entirely accurate - answer.

Playing football helps, I get the impression quite a lot of FM content is written by people who don't actually play. Or if you're not in a position to play then certainly watching football and drawing your own conclusions and trying to avoid being spoon fed.

Finally to appreciate the limitations of tactics - for example a role or duty is not going to turn Granit Xhaka into Patrick Vieira. There's a lot of noise in FM, particularly some elaborate player roles, not least the excessive playmaker options. Try to work out what's important - for me that would be your formation, your underlying mentality structure and your playing style - and focus less on what's aesthetic.

That's nowhere near comprehensive, but I hope that helps. You'll also notice that if you read older posts, you'll see my understanding has evolved considerably. Writing it out has certainly helped.

 

On 10/10/2019 at 14:09, _neallyons_ said:

Enjoying this thread massively. 

Cheers 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 05/07/2019 at 16:28, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Sorry for the delay in responding to this. As mentioned, it's an excellent question and probably justifies a thread in it's own right so I wanted to do it justice. Life's gotten in the way the past few weeks, but I finally have a coffee and a free afternoon 

My thinking on team shape has evolved through the various saves and threads I've experimented with.

In summary, the initial breakthrough was combining Very Fluid to give intelligent, hard working, technical players freedom to make decisions but also bring them together to play as a unit. For example, please see:

Johan Cruyff's 3-4-3

Arrigo Sacchi's 4-4-2

..and even the simple Dutch style 4-3-3

During this time I'd essentially identified that Very Fluid caused players to prioritise the Team Mentality over their individual Duty. This is why the early shapes all used Standard team mentality, in order to keep the team balanced, rather than the Control, Attack and Overload you see me using regularly further down the line.

The next breakthrough was identifying that I could balance increased Team Mentality with reduced individual Duties.

This originated from the Guardiola's 4-3-3 thread, playing a Control team mentality but with only two in Attack.

The concept was then smashed home in the Bielsa thread experimenting with Overload balanced entirely by using only Defend and Support roles.

Anyone notice anything similar in the last shot?  Perhaps suitably for a thread about Bielsa, this one never attracted the interest of the others - perhaps because I didn't really finish it - but was the most influential on the style I play now.

In quite a plot twist, given the ongoing narrative on team shape, thinking carefully about the individual Duty frees you from needing to use Very Fluid to create compactness.

For example, a fairly disappointing crop in Benfica B have been set up to play in a Structured, Control 4-3-3.

They'd had 1-2 years in the under 19s so starting to develop reasonably well technically and I want to maintain the style of pressing and possession at that level, but Control rather than Overload meant it was at a more manageable tempo and Structured meant they had less freedom to deviate from the basic plan.

They recorded very high possession figures, higher than the first team in fact, and won the league.

Despite the Structured shape, the compactness can still be seen looking under the hood at the individual mentalities themselves.
 

      11
11          11
   11 11 11

11  8    8  11
      8

As you can see we're already nice and compact. It'd simply be a case of increasing to a more fluid shape when the players decision making is ready for it.

This could easily be any possession-friendly shape and I'd be interested to give it a spin somewhere else.

@Armistice this post has a bit of an overview, through the years 

[Armistice]

1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

@Armistice this post has a bit of an overview, through the years 

Thanks! I’ve read your posts for years now and whilst people like Rashidi or Cleon has taken the spotlight as the FM gurus, your style has certainly something that the other two lack - maybe simplicity? You make things look so easy and flawless in a world of overcomplicated theories and concepts. And that’s a huge quality, at least in my opinion.

Keep it up man! Hope you stick around the FM community and maybe you’ll give FM20 a chance. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Well, I said I liked the pressing as a 4-4-2 but I didn't expect this:

The high line, organised, compact and intense pressing 4-4-2 has - so far - been overwhelming. The diamond shape and the use of technical and intelligent players means we're pretty good on the ball too.

It's a really enjoyable process as we're noticeably not the same quality as the previous sides (scoring considerably less, for a start) but this group is right back up there and looking at the results over Barcelona and Juventus, could have a real tilt at Europe.

Academy prospect Carlos Pinto has won European Golden Boy and will be making his way into the first team next season.

A few highlights:

Going into the second half of the season strong.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[Adzke]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

I've really enjoyed following this thread, and I am currently playing as Benfica myself, albeit on FM19. How are you utilising your B team? And how do you make sure that your players are actually getting match experience while there?

Edited October 12, 2019 by Adzke

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

[steakfaced]

12 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

What's this one entail?

Absolutely amazing defensive record on the new setup mate.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

21 hours ago, Adzke said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

I've really enjoyed following this thread, and I am currently playing as Benfica myself, albeit on FM19. How are you utilising your B team? And how do you make sure that your players are actually getting match experience while there?

I try to be quite flexible with the B-Team based on the level a player is at in relation to the rest of the squad.

As a reference point, everybody does one year at 15-16-17 years old in the U-19s.

From that point, there are 3 options:

1. Stay in the Academy
   • If they're developing slowly, and there is no player coming through behind them.
2. Move into the B-Team
   • Probably most likely, to see how they handle lower level competitive football (ideally at 17 or 18).
   • Ability at this point will be at or approaching 2 stars.
3. Move straight into the First Team
   • Exceptional circumstances
   • If there's a space available, and they've got the ability to leapfrog those ahead in the B Team

Once in the B Team I am really looking at 2 things:

1. Do they have the ability to progress? (at the moment, 3 stars ability as a rough guide)
2. Is there someone pushing through behind them?
   • This often happens and they're still not capable of competing for a First Team squad place, in which case I use loans to bridge the gap.

[vrbrasa]

Em 13/10/2019 em 10:23, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

I try to be quite flexible with the B-Team based on the level a player is at in relation to the rest of the squad.

As a reference point, everybody does one year at 15-16-17 years old in the U-19s.

From that point, there are 3 options:

1. Stay in the Academy
   • If they're developing slowly, and there is no player coming through behind them.
2. Move into the B-Team
   • Probably most likely, to see how they handle lower level competitive football (ideally at 17 or 18).
   • Ability at this point will be at or approaching 2 stars.
3. Move straight into the First Team
   • Exceptional circumstances
   • If there's a space available, and they've got the ability to leapfrog those ahead in the B Team

Once in the B Team I am really looking at 2 things:

1. Do they have the ability to progress? (at the moment, 3 stars ability as a rough guide)
2. Is there someone pushing through behind them?
   • This often happens and they're still not capable of competing for a First Team squad place, in which case I use loans to bridge the gap.

interesting.

btw, how do you choose the coaches and managers?

one thing i notice is that you should have someone coaching in b team also,righ?

[leesmith90]

Hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!  absolutely loving this thread, fascinating insight into regular squad transitions. I’m trying something similar with Tottenham - trying to build the team around players such as Harry winks, Kane, Walker-Peters and gradually integrating players like Oliver skipp, Oakley-boothe and Troy parrott. In regards to you using a Bielsa themed tactical style, do you use certain tactics to counter opposition like you did in the Bielsa thread I.e. using a 3 man defence vs 2 man strike force, using a player in the DM spot against an AM etc? 

[vrbrasa]

This is a fantastic theme. Loving all yours posts! 😁

I remember that if there was interest you share same basic setups, like a 433 (I think the one you use in bteam should be one), 442 4231....

[anxiousAnarchist]

Hi Özil, big fan

I've been trying to apply some of your principles to replicate the 3-4-1-2 of Sampaoli's Universidad de Chile and Chilean national team sides. Very Bielsa-esque but with some interesting changes I think. He's a lot more pragmatic than Bielsa, but still has the same ferocious pressing and verticality. I've been having some computer troubles though so I can't actually play for the time being :\

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/16/universidad-de-chile-tactics-bielsa-sampaoli/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/06/12/chile-like-in-2010-the-most-attacking-side/

 

Pretty similar stuff, but most interestingly is the attack. Instead of the "enganche y tres puntas," Sampaoli would deploy Vidal almost as a false 9 and use Sanchez and Vargas as wide forwards who drifted inside. I went the old pen and paper route and threw it into the mentality calculator on Attacking/VFluid and it came up like such:

IF(s)      AMC(s)      IF(S)                     14      14     14

       DLP(D)   CM(s)                                  11    14

WB(s)                     WB(s)                  14                  14

    CB(d)  CB(d)  CB(d)                          11   11   11

              GK(d)                                               11

In terms of PIs:

AMC(s) would replicate your SS(a)/False 9 role on support to maintain all Def/Supp duties. On the other hand, playing a role that could hold the ball up might be valuable here to give the wide forwards time to move into the half space.

IF(s)s would get forward more to stay

WB(s) get forward more in attack

DLP sits and holds, CM(s) gets forward more

 

Like I said, I won't get to play for a while, but I'd be curious as to your thoughts. Could be an interesting blend of systems if it works. Or maybe it crashes and burns. The false 9 role would be less attacking, I'd be hoping the more aggressive wide forwards could cover the gap. For TIs, closing down more, higher defensive line and more direct passing for sure. I'd like to give it a shot with Leverkusen, but I could see Liverpool or Juventus having a decent squad for this. Any thoughts would be great!

[zlatanera]

@anxiousAnarchist I think AMC can have the PI Hold Up Ball, so that would solve your issue. In fact I'm sure of it, it was used with Portugal in this thread. 

Also r.e. teams to use, if you're on FM19 Dortmund would probably be a good fit - Hakimi and Guerreiro are arguably more suited attribute-wise to WB rather than FB strata roles, you have 4 CBs who'll all get antsy if they don't get playing time and could retrain Julian Weigl to play there, with Witsel and Delaney in midfield and a front three of Reus - Götze - Sancho or something similar.

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Hey, everybody. Just a quick note to explain the lack of update. Still going, life's just been hectic. I've played through to the end of the season and hoping to find time for an update sometime between today and the weekend  Then on to the World Cup 

[Boss]

5 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Hey, everybody. Just a quick note to explain the lack of update. Still going, life's just been hectic. I've played through to the end of the season and hoping to find time for an update sometime between today and the weekend  Then on to the World Cup 

I'm guessing you aren't going to give FM20 a go?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

6 hours ago, Boss said:

I'm guessing you aren't going to give FM20 a go?

Probably not, unless they've sorted out the ambiguity around the tactics creator / interface, I'm afraid 

[vrbrasa]

the most frustration that i have is that i cant get the boys to reach the 5 stars. take xadas for exemplo. is now 23 and thats no more potencial than 3 stars. its seen i can get one or another to 4, but the most reach only 3 or 3 and 1/5 stars. xadas make at least 25 games in the a-team playing champs and all.... 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Apologies again. Long overdue. Hectic last few months so I'm retrospectively posting, quite a long way after having played it. Still going with this save. I think this makes it the longest I've ever had one save in actual time (not seasons in FM).

In the last update, I introduced the latest variant of a slightly withdrawn 4-4-2 which was really aimed at maximising the talents of João Felix and Tiago Dantas.

Whilst it's fair to say that the team is not quite as talented as a couple of seasons earlier, they seem to work very well as a unit; the intense pressing has been excellent to watch and resulted in one of the best defensive runs I have seen (despite a brand new back four).

On the ball, we're back to controlling possession with quick, high-intensity, passing football. Probably most closely modelled on - the slightly less fashionable, at the moment - Sarri-ball.

In domestic competition, we remained dominant. Unfortunately competition currently almost non-existent at that level.

Squad Development

This is going to be high level, as it's been so long since actually playing but I do intend to go into more detail when I rebuild the squad for next season.

The new-look back four have developed extremely well. I've earmarked Federico Sousa as a potential future captain - if/when Dantas moves on. Rui Soares is absolutely top quality and Fabio Dias nudged Luis Pinheiro as first choice mid-way through the year. Dias still has some development to do, particularly in attack but I am very happy.

In the broader first team squad, Utaka, Carvoiero, Silva, Vega and Pinto have been superb. Dias and Bras have been mixed and - as a result - places are under threat for next season. Quintero still settling at the club but clearly has potential.

Not sure I introduced Carvoiero last time, but he's earmarked as the understudy to Dantas. He's another intelligent, technical midfielder who has been trained for the system since 16 years old. Unfortunately broke his ankle so missed a chunk of the season.

A little disappointing, perhaps, is that he reached 22 before being given a serious chance in the first team. He did 2 years in the academy and 2 years for the B Team, which I think is too much. Largely due to competition for places at the top end of the squad, so something I will work on.

2026 Champions League

After disappointment last season, having diverged too far from our core style of play, this year was a big one. Also going into a World Cup there was a lot to play for, particularly for the young players coming through.

Imperious form through the knockout stages; eliminating new Italian champions and last years winners on the way. 

Bayern look pretty fearsome in Conte's famous 3-4-3.

I may later edit this with match analysis but don't currently have time and want to get this update out. Also I have covered the 4-4-2 shape at some length so I am not sure there is a huge amount more to say at this moment. 

 

Apologies for the brief update. Simply in the interest of keeping things moving along. Also the next one should be more interesting, as I am trying something totally new.

On to the World Cup 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[BlueScreen]

How many goals did you concede all season? Fantastic season, keep the updates coming! 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

31 minutes ago, BlueScreen said:

How many goals did you concede all season? Fantastic season, keep the updates coming! 

6 in the league, which is the second best we've achieved. Rulli made 11 clean sheets in Europe, which broke the record.

João Felix also had an absolutely stunning season and all season it looked like we'd lose him at the end of the year, but suddenly it seems like there's a chance we might keep him.

If he - and Dantas - stay, we probably have to offer just about the highest paying contracts in Europe. It's a stretch but we could just about do it, but it's a big shift in direction on my previous strategy. I was previously expecting two bumper transfers and to finish off the transition, but now I have some thinking to do.

[Garrlor]

On 29/11/2019 at 10:00, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Not sure I introduced Carvoiero last time, but he's earmarked as the understudy to Dantas. He's another intelligent, technical midfielder who has been trained for the system since 16 years old. Unfortunately broke his ankle so missed a chunk of the season.

A little disappointing, perhaps, is that he reached 22 before being given a serious chance in the first team. He did 2 years in the academy and 2 years for the B Team, which I think is too much. Largely due to competition for places at the top end of the squad, so something I will work on.

 

Actually mate, I think that you have his development bang on track. 2 seasons in the first team he will be 24 and hitting the peak of his powers. If he stays with you, I can forsee 6 solid years as the replacement for Dantas.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

7 hours ago, Garrlor said:

Actually mate, I think that you have his development bang on track. 2 seasons in the first team he will be 24 and hitting the peak of his powers. If he stays with you, I can forsee 6 solid years as the replacement for Dantas.

True. I think I was perhaps getting a little "Hollywood" there, comparing him with those making it to a first team regular by the age of 19; but forgetting that is the exception, rather than the rule  

[Spiegel]

Looks fairly similar to Dantas, if you compare them at similar ages; 

Need to make up his off the ball and positioning a touch, but vision, flair, agility and balance increases make him a pretty solid replacement!

On 14/04/2019 at 12:50, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

 

 

Also pretty cool that you've come up against some of your old boys in the CL Final!

Edited November 30, 2019 by Spiegel

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

54 minutes ago, Spiegel said:

Looks fairly similar to Dantas, if you compare them at similar ages; 

Need to make up his off the ball and positioning a touch, but vision, flair, agility and balance increases make him a pretty solid replacement!

 

Wow, you're right. I'd not made the comparison. Thanks. The big one, for me, is Decisions.

[Garrlor]

16 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

True. I think I was perhaps getting a little "Hollywood" there, comparing him with those making it to a first team regular by the age of 19; but forgetting that is the exception, rather than the rule  

Its just a symptom of the modern game unfortunately mate. People expect players to come into the first team at 18 or 19 and be amazing all of the time. Hell, they think that 18 or 19 year old players should be pushing for first team games at teams like United right off the bat and be amazing and change the world and be the new Wayne Rooney... You get generational talents (Felix IRL, Dantas in your game) who make the step up to first team football really young. Others like McTominay start to bloom into first team players at 21-22 and really kick on from there, which is more like the normal at the top level.

I am interested in what you do next, I am considering trying the FM20 demo to see if I can overcome some of the ME issues using some of the principles discussed in here. I already have a few ideas....

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

13 minutes ago, Garrlor said:

Its just a symptom of the modern game unfortunately mate. People expect players to come into the first team at 18 or 19 and be amazing all of the time. Hell, they think that 18 or 19 year old players should be pushing for first team games at teams like United right off the bat and be amazing and change the world and be the new Wayne Rooney... You get generational talents (Felix IRL, Dantas in your game) who make the step up to first team football really young. Others like McTominay start to bloom into first team players at 21-22 and really kick on from there, which is more like the normal at the top level.

I am interested in what you do next, I am considering trying the FM20 demo to see if I can overcome some of the ME issues using some of the principles discussed in here. I already have a few ideas....

Yes, you're very right. One of the most enjoyable things looking back on this save has been looking back on the different ways in which players have developed and found themselves a place in the squad. As you rightly pointed out, there's been Dantas as well as Embalo, João Felix and Jota who basically came in and set the world alight. There's been Florentino Luis who was moved around a bit early on but established himself as one of the top all-action central midfielders in the world. A highlight, for me, has been the less naturally talented players, who have simply been bred for the style of football we play and suit it perfectly given the ability available; over the years there's been Pedro Alvaro, Luis Pinheiro, Pedro Rodrigues and Goncalo Oliveira. These guys never attracted the fanfare of the stars but were minimal fuss and played an absolutely essential role in the development of a squad on the whole. If I move on from Benfica eventually, it'd probably be these guys I would be most interested in linking up with again at a 'project club' in one of the big leagues in Europe. Then, of course, there's Batista, who was part of the golden generation but didn't develop at the same rate; eventually journeying around the major leagues of Europe before returning to take a first team role winning the Champions League.

The most interesting talent at the club is still Lucas Aragon.

He's actually now rated as the most talented player at the club. For a while, I thought he was going to be my Leo Messi but, so far, he has been good - showing flashes of brilliance - but has yet to perform consistently at the level I'd expect for his ability / attributes.

Perhaps a victim of his own versatility. In a similar way to Florentino Luis early on, I've not been able to use him in his preferred spot as João Felix and Thiago Almada have been ahead; leaving Aragon deeper, or wide.

Aragon also highlights the importance of balance in developing a young player. Aragon is almost a prototype for an intelligent, technical player however I left it too late before thinking of an 'end product'. The last year or two I have been training him as a Poacher in an attempt to add goals to his game, but should perhaps have been a year or so earlier before reaching his potential.

He's not attracting much interest from the big money clubs, and he is perhaps the major beneficiary should João Felix decide to move on.

[Garrlor]

Looking at Aragon there, he has scored or assisted 92 goals in 187 games, almost a 1 in 2 for a direct involvment in a goal. Not a bad return for a player who has been played out of posistion. My only concern for him playing further forward is his posistioning and finishing, both of which are a little low for a top class player. Like you said, he is probably the victim of not being given a role to move towards to finish him off into a more complete player. Right now he is well rounded as a quick, intelligent player but not "great".

However, I look forward to more updates on how you are moving this team forward. I love the way you chop and change tactics and that the work you put in creating smart players means you can play any tactic you want with very little in the way of a downside.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Ladies and gentlemen, the reason I rushed through the last update..

There were actually two reasons why I was excited for this update. First is that anyone who has followed any of my updates will know that I particularly enjoy a World Cup. Something about the novelty of it and the intensity with it being playable within a day I have always enjoyed. Second is that I decided - last minute - to spring a tactical surprise.

First time in this save playing a back 3 and first time ever, for me, using a 3-4-2-1.

Inspiration actually came from another save, where I was messing around with PSG, trying to combine Mbappe and Neymar in the same attack; then realising that the shape I came up with accommodates our abundance of central players a little more effectively than the 4-4-2.

The playing style remains the same; high-intensity pressing and short, high-tempo passing.

Beneath the hood, the individual mentality distribution is similar to before; aggressive and extremely compact.
 

       15
    17    17
17  15    15  17
   15  15  15
       15

The Portugal squad goes into the World Cup very well settled. The starting 11 all have 50-60+ caps aside from Frederico Sousa breaking though. Rui Soares, Afonso Sousa, Bernardo Sousa and Carlos Pinto all pushing for starting places.

Group Stage

Knockout Rounds

Final

Slightly surprised to see Belgium make the final as their 'Golden Generation' of Eden Hazard, Kevin De Bruyne and Co. have mostly gone. They've got 2 world-class youngsters, sitting on the bench and are playing one of the most defensive systems I have seen an AI routinely use.

As you might expect against such opposition, the most common shape we saw was the attacking shape.

We attack as a 3-2-5.

• Tiago Dantas and Florentino Luis are a deep playmaking axis, with 5 runners ahead of them.
• Bernardo Silva plays the connecting role, dropping off deep and holding up the ball whilst João Felix, Xadas, Embalo and Fernandes all advance.

Here you can see Belgium at their worst. An incredibly narrow 5-man defence on the edge of their box.

Again we have the 3-2-5 shape.

• Dantas and Luis are once again a deep playmaking axis and under no pressure so able to pick out passes like an NFL quarterback.
• Bernardo Silva, João Felix and Xadas all sit a little ahead of the defence as 3 number 10s.
• Embalo and Fernandes stretch the defence and have space.

Without the ball, we press incredibly high, as a unit and with high intensity; regularly pushing Belgium into horrible situations.

Finally, here is the more compact defensive shape; with Embalo and Fernandes tucking in to make a back 5 and with Dantas and Florentino Luis shielding the 3-man defence.

Ultimately Belgium sat much, much too deep against a side with so much quality and were slaughtered.

Oh, and..

[MadOnion]

When I thought you couldn't out-perform the class of 2018, you come up with a World cup performance of 27 goals scored, 0 conceded .
I think this Thread has reached its climax. Truly unbelievable! The work you've done since day 1 thus far is remarkable and since I'm a Benfica fan, this is probably the GOAT thread. 

I'm yet to start my Benfica save on this years FM since I'm waiting for patches to make the ME engine better, but reading this thread back and forth is making me start the save rather soon.

Keep the updates coming!

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, MadOnion said:

When I thought you couldn't out-perform the class of 2018, you come up with a World cup performance of 27 goals scored, 0 conceded .
I think this Thread has reached its climax. Truly unbelievable! The work you've done since day 1 thus far is remarkable and since I'm a Benfica fan, this is probably the GOAT thread. 

I'm yet to start my Benfica save on this years FM since I'm waiting for patches to make the ME engine better, but reading this thread back and forth is making me start the save rather soon.

Keep the updates coming!

Thank you. I must admit, I've become something of a Benfica fan myself over the course of this game!  The academy is an absolute gold mine.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2026/27 Pre-Season Update

Updates coming thick and fast now. Spot who has finally got a couple of days off!
 

The intense period of transition finally feels like it's starting to ease, as the club is in a far more sustainable position; particularly in terms of wages in relation income.

The biggest news of the summer was João Felix and Tiago Dantas both turning down blockbuster moves to stay with the club. We've got talent coming through, meaning they're not irreplaceable as such; but I'd love to see them see out their careers at the club.
 

Bragança, Batista, Brás and Pinheiro were the headline grabbing exits. All reached their peaks, attracted major clubs and asked to leave; making way for younger players pushing through in the process.

Following the success of the World Cup, I decided to give the 3-4-2-1 a longer run.

The most exciting benefits of this switch are the accommodation of Lucas Aragon in his preferred position and the aforementioned Pedro Carvoeiro, previously assumed to be Dantas' replacement, now lining up alongside him.

Emmanuel Utaka looks pretty solid joining the defence.

Fabio Dias also worked his way into the first team last season and continues this year. Still a work in progress, certainly in attack, but has bags of potential and deserves a shot.

The number of homegrown players at the club, despite the £1bn+ overhaul is a huge testimony to the strength of the academy. I've moaned about the quality of youth intakes, but actually Emmanuel Utaka, Frederico Sousa (now Vice Captain) and Rui Soares all came through our own intake.

Beyond the first team, we continue with the structured 4-3-3 which has been tweaked slightly for the personnel.

This time you can see the South America scouting network has been earning it's keep. Many of these players joining during the period of weaker youth intakes. As a rough guide to see how they're developing:

The B Team looks marginally weaker this season, but there should be enough coming through for a few to push the first team next season. Also starting to see the effects of losing our 24+ year old players in the personalities at B Team level. Typically I'd hope for most to have been tutored by now.

I'm making more of an effort to ensure players are played in a 2nd or 3rd position during their time with the B Team, so they have more potential options for a place to play when they reach the first team.

The U19s are looking quite exciting at the moment. João Correia may even bypass the B Team directly into the first team squad if he continues to develop as he did last season.

Again, learning 2nd positions. 

Last year's intake:

Here we go again! 

[PT-KK]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

out of (morbid) curiosity.. do you have any PI's on the 3421?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

14 minutes ago, PT-KK said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

out of (morbid) curiosity.. do you have any PI's on the 3421?

Only these for both AM(S).

Oh also the goalkeeper distributes to centre backs.

[Spiegel]

That new formation definitely has a few commonalities with your old Ajax 3-6-1. Interested to see it in action!
Utaka looks an absolute unit, looks very similar to Mosquera when he broke through!

 

[craiigman]

9 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Only these for both AM(S).

Oh also the goalkeeper distributes to centre backs.

Remind me, is this FM17 or FM18?

[Continum]

Hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

I've read through this thread yesterday and also looked at some of the others, and I'm very impressed.
As many have already pointed out, it is something with the way you make everything you do sound very logical, clear and easy to follow.

I've played a bit around with the mentality calculator with my Basel team in FM 19. I know there might be other factors that play in comparing to FM 18. Still, since they've changed displaying the individual mentality via labels instead of bars, I find this more helpful.

Then to my question: how important would you say it is to make your team balanced when it comes to individual mentalities? In terms of now having too big gaps (how much is too big?) between the lines. E.g. between defence and midfield, and between midfield and attack.

Or do you believe you can make a successful tactic despite gaps?

One example I can tell from my own save is my left back Michael Irwin (newgen), who is a solid wing-back but lacks the flair to be an offensive outlet. Leaving him on a wing-back role with a defend duty. Using the mentality calculator and the mentality labels for the individual player, I see there's a gap between him and my winger. So to increase his mentality, I kept the defend duty, but I added "look for overlap" and "exploit the left flank". That brought him from a "defensive" mentality to a "positive" mentality - which is the same mentality my other wing-back has on a support role. And it seems to be working. My formation (4-2-3-1 Wide on an attacking team mentality) plays out really balanced.

Another question I can add: what I have done with my left wing-back, does that sounds logic to you or does it "break" the intention of assigning him a defend duty instead of a support duty since that already gives him the wanted mentality?

Thank you.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

10 hours ago, Spiegel said:

That new formation definitely has a few commonalities with your old Ajax 3-6-1. Interested to see it in action!
Utaka looks an absolute unit, looks very similar to Mosquera when he broke through!

 

Yes, he does. For some reason I am producing quite a lot of Defensive Centre Backs and Defensive Fullbacks which is odd, given how we train. It's resulted in a pretty solid defence though!

 

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

Remind me, is this FM17 or FM18?

FM 2018.

 

1 hour ago, Continum said:

Hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

I've read through this thread yesterday and also looked at some of the others, and I'm very impressed.
As many have already pointed out, it is something with the way you make everything you do sound very logical, clear and easy to follow.

I've played a bit around with the mentality calculator with my Basel team in FM 19. I know there might be other factors that play in comparing to FM 18. Still, since they've changed displaying the individual mentality via labels instead of bars, I find this more helpful.

Then to my question: how important would you say it is to make your team balanced when it comes to individual mentalities? In terms of now having too big gaps (how much is too big?) between the lines. E.g. between defence and midfield, and between midfield and attack.

Or do you believe you can make a successful tactic despite gaps?

One example I can tell from my own save is my left back Michael Irwin (newgen), who is a solid wing-back but lacks the flair to be an offensive outlet. Leaving him on a wing-back role with a defend duty. Using the mentality calculator and the mentality labels for the individual player, I see there's a gap between him and my winger. So to increase his mentality, I kept the defend duty, but I added "look for overlap" and "exploit the left flank". That brought him from a "defensive" mentality to a "positive" mentality - which is the same mentality my other wing-back has on a support role. And it seems to be working. My formation (4-2-3-1 Wide on an attacking team mentality) plays out really balanced.

Another question I can add: what I have done with my left wing-back, does that sounds logic to you or does it "break" the intention of assigning him a defend duty instead of a support duty since that already gives him the wanted mentality?

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Yes, the switch from bars to labels adds considerably more guessing, unfortunately. It's a horrible interface.

You can certainly have a successful tactic with gaps.

In this type high-pressing, possession style, you don't want big gaps. That's my personal preference, anyway. You want everyone working together as a unit, contributing to pressing and possession.

Certain styles, particularly counter or defensive, you actually do want gaps. Whilst you do still want the team to be one unit, you do still need to score goals. Control, Attack and Overload all have their own increasingly intense defensive strategy - pressing. However a Defensive mentality doesn't have any attacking strategy so you need to build it in with duties.

For example, probably the most famous defensive side in the world:

 

This translates to:
 

    10
          15
11   8    4   11

12   4    2   12
        2

Huge gaps, from 2-15. However I'd still expect this to be one of the most solid, compact defensive systems I could come up with (with the caveat that it actually scores some goals too).

I'd try to minimise gaps between a player and the guy ahead of him. For example, DR -> MR or DC -> MC but as you can see that's not too much of a problem.

It's difficult to answer the question about your left back without seeing the player and the set up on the whole, but it doesn't sound too much of a problem. Personally I don't like defensive wingbacks very much (only used a few times); mainly because I often use my wingbacks for width or providing extra numbers in midfield.

Hope this helps 

[Continum]

11 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I'd try to minimise gaps between a player and the guy ahead of him. For example, DR -> MR or DC -> MC but as you can see that's not too much of a problem.

Excatly this. That was really my question. Sorry, maybe I wasn't too clear on that. Cause here you will strive to avoid too "big" gaps I assume? E.g. if you switched the two CB's so the one with 2 in mentality is positioned behind the MC with 8 in mentality. In my eyes that could be a concern.

 

11 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

It's difficult to answer the question about your left back without seeing the player and the set up on the whole, but it doesn't sound too much of a problem. Personally I don't like defensive wingbacks very much (only used a few times); mainly because I often use my wingbacks for width or providing extra numbers in midfield.

That's understandable. I could post my setup when I'm off work to provide more information if you are interested.

 

Thanks for the answers so far.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Continum