The VAR Thread

[gillsminnow]

Been pretty decent so far, right? I've been impressed with it's usage.

[Astafjevs]

It's great. 

[Barry Cartman]

Been great when used correctly, but still baffling decisions as to why it isn't used in some situations, i.e the Argentina game 

[Constantine]

Ok, i admit, it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. Was avid opponent of VAR, thought it might slow and cut the game a lot. But liking what i'm seeing so far. Need fine tuning, that's for sure but it's useful

[Confused Clarity]

Have noticed that the players are still badgering the referees, but now they're demanding they look at the video instead.

[Astafjevs]

It needs to be more transparent. For example, that Argentina one I assume you're referring to Pavón. They might well have used it and decided there was nothing worth viewing again for the referee. There's lots of silent checks going on.

Was also something Clattenburg said yesterday about the ball going out of play and meaning VAR couldn't be used to go back to a decision. I wasn't listening fully so might have misheard or not understood correctly. But it sounded weird.

[Pukey]

Haven't been able to watch a lot of games but that use for Sweden was excellent. Very quickly done

[craigcwwe]

I thought it would slow the game down a lot but it's actually working well and not slowing the game at all. 

Caught a lot of decisions that the ref missed so it's working as intended. 

[Razzler]

6 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

Have noticed that the players are still badgering the referees, but now they're demanding they look at the video instead.

This was inevitable, whatever you make the 'thing' is what players will target.

Hey hey ref it was a pen will simply be replaced by 'look at the video' and trying to pressure the ref to do that instead

[The_jagster]

6 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

 

Was also something Clattenburg said yesterday about the ball going out of play and meaning VAR couldn't be used to go back to a decision. I wasn't listening fully so might have misheard or not understood correctly. But it sounded weird.

It can be used when the ball's gone out of play but like rugby, if play restarts that's it, no VAR. But the referee can still stop play I think.

And although I don't like him and normally think the refs are a waste on TV, Clattenburg has been good and ensures pros who don't know the rules can't give their own expert opinion in ignorance.

[Confused Clarity]

I didnt realise how much of a gimp he sounded.

[The_jagster]

Considering how he struts around the pitch I was definitely surprised to hear quite a soft Geordie accent.

[Astafjevs]

18 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

It can be used when the ball's gone out of play but like rugby, if play restarts that's it, no VAR. But the referee can still stop play I think.

And although I don't like him and normally think the refs are a waste on TV, Clattenburg has been good and ensures pros who don't know the rules can't give their own expert opinion in ignorance.

So that means VAR can be used!? . Because he won't stop play unless the guys in his ear tell him to wander over to the screen.

Basically, the Pavón thing - the ball went out of play. Ref admonished Pavón for a bit because he basically flopped, then play restarted. I'm wondering if that's why they didn't go back and get him to look at the screen.

[enigmatic]

Assume with the Pavon one the VAR official decided that since the referee had a good view and was completely adamant that Pavon had exaggerated the contact  (but didn't book him - **** referee) it wasn't worth giving him another look to see if he'd change his mind (even though he was wrong originally).

-

Clattenburg arguing that a clear error by the referee in not awarding the Sweden penalty which VAR game him a chance to correct is actually VAR's fault for discouraging the ref from awarding a penalty he clearly wasn't interested in awarding in real time 

[FaceCrusher]

Still missed the elbow from Costa on Pepe for some reason.

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, FaceCrusher said:

Still missed the elbow from Costa on Pepe for some reason.

Because it was mostly in Pepe's imagination

If there was anywhere technology could theoretically have helped that incident it would be ensure that Pepe was booked for simulation for going down clutching his face because an arm caught his shoulder...

[FaceCrusher]

6 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Because it was mostly in Pepe's imagination

If there was anywhere technology could theoretically have helped that incident it would be ensure that Pepe was booked for simulation for going down clutching his face because an arm caught his shoulder... 

No, it was a clearly a fault and the VAR should have at least notified the referee to review it after the goal and make his own judgement.

[Wigmore]

I was one of VAR's harshest critics during the season - I seem to remember I went into a near-meltdown state during the Tottenham-Rochdale fiasco. But I have to admit the whole system seems to have been vastly improved for the World Cup here, it's not ruining the experience nearly as much as it was during the FA Cup.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Two situations yesterday, though. The push on Miranda and the possible penalty for hugging and bringing down.

Basically, even with VAR, you still get debatable situations to talk about after the match.

[enigmatic]

21 minutes ago, FaceCrusher said:

No, it was a clearly a fault and the VAR should have at least notified the referee to review it after the goal and make his own judgement.

The VAR did check, and concluded there was nothing to look at except a defender embarrassing himself. 

 

[Astafjevs]

VAR isn't going to eradicate it completely. You've still got referees - human beings - at the helm. But it will reduce the number of monstrous errors that impact games. Of that there's no doubt.

[FaceCrusher]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

The VAR did check, and concluded there was nothing to look at

 

And that was the mistake. Blatant fault ignored.

[enigmatic]

19 minutes ago, FaceCrusher said:

And that was the mistake. Blatant fault ignored.

If you gave that as a foul, nobody would ever win a contested header. I mean, there was a player who was trying to collide with an opponent instead of trying to win the ball, but it wasn't Costa...

[FaceCrusher]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

there was a player who was trying to collide with an opponent instead of trying to win the ball, but it wasn't Costa...

 

[enigmatic]

Think you're missing the continuation of the clip where Costa runs after the ball and Pepe clutches his face in agony because Costa's arm touched his shoulder  

[FaceCrusher]

1 minute ago, enigmatic said:

Think you're missing the continuation of the clip where Costa runs after the ball and Pepe clutches his face in agony because Costa's arm elbow touched his shoulder neck   

How Pepe reacts is irrelevant to Costa's act. Elbow to the neck without getting near the ball. Pepe was heading the ball. Fault.

[enigmatic]

I trust you'll be calling for penalties against Portugal at basically every single corner where Pepe jumps for the ball and his arm touches an opponent's shoulder whilst in a natural position then.

If Costa wasn't trying to make the contact look more significant than it actually was, he'd have won the second ball and there wouldn't have been a goal for you to whinge about.

Believe me, if you're elbowing someone you don't do it with a straight arm, and Costa's not a player that's exactly subtle about hurting people when he wants....

[Mr Wallin]

4 hours ago, Astafjevs said:

Was also something Clattenburg said yesterday about the ball going out of play and meaning VAR couldn't be used to go back to a decision. I wasn't listening fully so might have misheard or not understood correctly. But it sounded weird.

I'm not watching the UK broadcast but from what I've seen Clattenburg doesn't seem to have a good grasp of how VAR works. He should know the rest well enough though.

[scott MUFC]

well, still useless

[Marc Albrighton]

I was pro VAR before it came in but it hasn't cleared anything up we still just get ones that work and ones that don't just like before. You'd think with so many people monitoring it then the 100% obvious calls will obviously be given but i guess not. I fear we're still going to have some shocking VAR decisions and probably one that costs someone big.

[RTHerringbone]

What are the rules of VAR being used?

VAR only intervenes in the course of a match when the officials have made a 'clear and obvious error' in one of four key areas.

Goals

A close offside decision is the most common reason for VAR being consulted after a goal has been scored, but shirt-pulling and other infringements can cause goals to be chalked off. 

NB. The concept of 'clear and obvious' errors does not apply to offsides. A player is either onside or offside - you cannot be a little bit pregnant. So even if a player is offside by a matter of inches, the goal will be ruled out.

Penalties

The most subjective and arguably problematic area. Penalties can be awarded or rescinded using VAR if there has been a 'clear and obvious error' in the original decision. 

Straight red cards

Violent conduct and dangerous tackles can be penalised using VAR. Second-yellow cards cannot.  

Mistaken identity 

If the referee sends off the wrong player, such as the famous incident with Kieran Gibbs and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain in Arsenal's 6-0 drubbing at Chelsea in 2014, that injustice can be repaired. 

The system is restricted to these areas in order to minimise disruption to the flow of the game. 

 

[RTHerringbone]

Above is from here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/0/var-rules-used-2018-world-cup/

I think VAR has been fine until the wrestling with Kane tonight. Not sure how him being blatantly hauled down in the box twice at set pieces doesn't constitute "a 'clear and obvious error' in the original decision"

[georginho_juventusygr]

Everyone hates England for claiming it's the football home by singing "It's Coming Home".

[enigmatic]

14 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Above is from here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/0/var-rules-used-2018-world-cup/

I think VAR has been fine until the wrestling with Kane tonight. Not sure how him being blatantly hauled down in the box twice at set pieces doesn't constitute "a 'clear and obvious error' in the original decision"

tbf, the system's doing well if the main complaints are that it isn't being used to award soft penalties...

[Pukey]

Soft penalties sure, but someone being speared by a Goldberg wanna be isn't soft. It's an incredibly obvious foul.

[JD nawrat]

I've not said much about VAR but I've been a huge fan of the idea from the very beginning. There's been a lot of stories about horrific uses in Italy and Germany but I haven't experienced that much (don't watch much Italian football though). The German games I did see were all pretty much flawless bar the game where the ref pulled the players out of HT to take a Pen

So, it's very refreshing to see it being received as well as it has been. A lot of people, especially your general football fans who only watch England at the world cup, might now tarnish its name because of the antics in the England Tunisia game. Shocking refereeing in general, but the VAR was non-existent too and should have resulted in two penalties for England. 

I guess that's the next step. Further education for the referees, get them up to the required standard, and hopefully when that happens we will see consistency across the board. 

Because until we get true consistency there will be too many people arguing it shouldn't be in the game. Until we get past that argument though, it won't be fully accepted. Look at goalline technology. At first people were sceptical, then they were angry because they didn't understand it (was it Motson who was losing his mind because he couldn't understand it? ), then they realised it worked perfectly, and now we can't really imagine it not being there. In the last 4 days we've seen the goalline technology used a good 4/5 times! That's brilliant. Nobody doubts Hawkeye. We need that for VAR. And soon, hopefully

[Razzler]

I think VAR has generally been fine but my understanding is that the guys in that VAR room are flagging up 'clear and obvious' incidents for the ref to review as well as the ref himself deciding to use it? Is that correct? 

How they can miss Kane I have no idea.

There will be mistakes, if a ref misses a so-so decision then maybe VAR doesn't flag then I can see it but when something is utterly clear as that, even if the ref doesn't see it they're supposed to flag it, right?

[Cedrik]

All the ado about the VAR now, lol. Yes, probably Kane could and should (imo) have gotten a penalty, but these moments are always a bit up for your own interpretation. Not all referees will feel such moments are a penalty kick because it's very difficult to clearly see what's going on, many times players also try to evoke a penalty in a similar way. I felt the situation with Kane was comparable to the situation between Troost-Ekong and Mandzukic (?) in the match between Croatia and Nigeria. Some refs will feel that's a pen, others don't. 

The VAR will always keep the element of interpretation in the game. Love it though how some English folks are completely agitated about the system now since last night, could not imagine how big the ********* would have been if England did not win in the end . 

[skybluedave]

Tbf any agitation is with the ref last night, who was terrible. Not VAR. 

[decapitated]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/fifa-to-study-vars-failure-to-award-kane-penalties-d56zvgxsr?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-The+Times+and+The+Sunday+Times-_-Unspecified-_-FBPAGE

 

 

Quote

Fifa will analyse the handling of England’s two rejected penalty claims after the VAR twice failed to intervene when Harry Kane was wrestled to the ground by a Tunisian defender.

The world governing body had backed all the incidents involving the VAR until now but will look in detail at the circumstances surrounding the match before deciding whether or not the video referee should have called for a review.

Gareth Southgate, the England manager, believes that at least one of the incidents, which took place at set pieces, should have resulted in a penalty, especially as Tunisia had won a debatable spot-kick themselves. The former international referee and Times columnist Mark Clattenburg said it was the “wrong call” for the VAR not to have intervened.

A Fifa spokesman told The Times: “We will certainly analyse these incidents.”

Massimo Busacca, Fifa’s referees chief, revealed before the start of the tournament that all the teams had been warned that the VARs would take action to deal with pushing and holding at set-pieces.

Busacca said last week: “We have discussed a lot about holding at corners and free kicks and told teams: the VAR will stop, review and punish. We have informed teams ‘don’t push or hold, because referees will review.’

“Some holding [incidents] are grey [areas]. But other incidents are black and white.”

There may be reasons why England’s first claim was not followed up as John Stones may have committed a foul himself before Kane was pushed down, but the second incident did not appear to have any obvious reason for a penalty not to have been given.

“I think if it’s a penalty at one end, it has to be one at the other,” Southgate said. “I could see why, once the first one is given, that it wasn’t going to be overturned because it wasn’t going to be a clear and obvious error. But I think there were similar offences at the other end of the pitch.”

England may also have benefited from the VAR not calling for a review when Ashley Young’s elbow caught Wahbi Khazri, though the referee appeared to have seen the incident and warned the Manchester United player but did not show a card.

Brazil’s FA has sent a letter to Fifa’s referees commission complaining about the officials’ decisions in their 1-1 draw with Switzerland claiming the VAR failed to intervene when Steven Zuber gave a slight push to Miranda, the defender, before heading the equaliser.

Fifa said the video official had agreed in both the incidents that the referee had not made a clear and obvious error.

 

[akura]

Var has been fantastic so far throughout the tournament. 

[Sons FC]

It has certainly been very successful so far. My biggest worry before the World Cup was that every goal would be subjected to VAR and as a consequence, the spontaneity of celebrating a goal would be lost but they have been very sensible in how VAR is used.

I think it has enhanced the game and the feeling of anticipation and excitement when they are reviewing whether a foul is in the area or not and waiting to see if it is a penalty.

[elgreenio]

Another seemingly controversial one today in the Aus match.

I’d like to see a publicised report/breakdown of all these decisions and the conversations had inside the booth/with the referee for each VAR review at the end of the tournament.

Cant see the premier league adopting it for a while now, we’d certainly need a ton more referees to be able to use it how they’re doing in the WC. Unless they adopt and NFL approach to it

[Confused Clarity]

 

Danny Baker really is turning into a sad pathetic tosser over VAR.

[elgreenio]

I thought he was dead 

[Darren Moores Mum]

Danny Baker desperately trying to stay relevant.

[Marc Albrighton]

Hes sad because nobody will ever be booked 3 times again? Odd.

[Sons FC]

Not that surprising - Danny Baker has made a career out of the quirky and the unusual and VAR threatens to take some of the quirks out of football and make it harder for him to make his retrospective "what a plonker" programmes.

[Bigwig]

They’re close to nailing it, but as well as providing training to officials and professionals they really need to teach commentators and pundits about what it should and shouldn’t be used for. Gets tiring hearing people constantly bang on about VAR over something that it’s not there for.  

[elgreenio]

3 hours ago, Bigwig said:

They’re close to nailing it, but as well as providing training to officials and professionals they really need to teach commentators and pundits about what it should and shouldn’t be used for. Gets tiring hearing people constantly bang on about VAR over something that it’s not there for.  

Add players and coaches to that, constant TV signs being made