Total Football - Did Some Research, Created a Tactic

[Joey Numbaz]

Hey guys, I've been working on this the last couple of days. This is my first shot here at going public with a tactic ... inspired a bit by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s great threads. This will be more of a journey where I hope you'll help me refine it ... I don't have a 2021 Champions League victory picture to post here (yet).

My main resources are:

The phenomenal book on the history of tactics, "Inverting the Pyramid", specifically chapter 12 "Total Football"

https://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/aja-1973/

https://spielverlagerung.de/2016/12/14/tuerchen-14-ajax-internazionale-1972/ (which I translated in its entirety on Google Translate is there an English version out there somewhere?)

A few other things I found around the web and quick Wiki-type bios I read on the players.

@Rashidi's ideas for how to implement the high block are also put to use here. I strongly encourage you to subscribe to his Bust the Net YouTube channel and his Patreon page if you want great tactical ideas.

   

 

Here's the setup so far. Please, please, please point out obvious or not obvious flaws in terms of the combination of roles and duties, TIs, PIs, etc. I do want to stay true to Michels and Kovács though, meaning, pressing, attacking, free-flowing roaming beautiful football and the 4-3-3. I am very much open to feedback.

I think the must have team instructions for this style are there (I try to minimize them where possible) - and yes, the offsides trap has been working great even with a Libero.

I do not have close down much more, because for the high block to work, as Rashidi says, you do not want your back line getting thrown off with all of the extra closing down. That's what I have player instructions for everyone. I think I can do better here though. As this article https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/05/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/ explains; I should probably close down specifically on either the FBs/WBs or the CBs to funnel the play to the other. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around getting that done in FM - very open to suggestions. Perhaps turn off the extra closing down on the SV and RPM.

Notice, even without specific TIs, the passing is pretty short, there is a lot of width, pretty high tempo and plenty of closing down.

PIs:

SKa - Distribute to CBs; Take Short Kicks

WBs - Dribble Less, Fewer Risky Passes

SVs - Dribble Less, Close Down More, Tackle Harder, Get Further Forward, Fewer Risky Passes, Move Into Channels

BBMs - Close Down More, Tackle Harder, Fewer Risky Passes, Move Into Channels - Also, he man-marks the mid-fielder playmaker, tightly. Needs to be adjusted every game, of course. This isn't plug and play ...

RPMs - Close Down More, Tackle Harder

RMDa - Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Wa - Close Down More, Tackle Harder

CFs - Close Down More, Tackle Harder

I have some questions though - I understand they move around a lot (duh), but as for the typical positions I've seen Neeskens (as the runner and heavy presser) both in the middle and on the right. Haan is the ball winner, and I've seen him on both the right and in the center. Mühren the playmaker typically is on the left in the articles I've seen.

I felt like the Segundo Volante best described Haan's play, and that can only be on the left or right, so I went with that.

I put the BPDs on the left simply because the Segundo Volante is on the right.

Johnny Rep seems like a space-exploring Ramdeuter from everything I've read, and Piet Keizer seems like a classic attacking winger.

Also, I will switch the mentality to Contain - yes Contain for about 30 minutes a match - no one can keep up with that intensity for 90 minutes.

A few quotes, first from the translated article linked above:

Quote

 

"The opening goal shortly after the half-time break resulted in such a cross from Suurbier, but the goal also resulted from a mistake by Bordon who flew past the ball. Cruyff just had to push in. However, Neeskens won the ball in the counter-pressing half-right after a failed Hulshoff relocation, which in turn should be a trademark.

After this goal, the dominance of Ajax diminished. Internazionale moved more aggressively with the center players, especially Gianfranco Bedin, but also opened up the space in front of the defensive line, which typically remained low. Neeskens was able to use the open zones as a ball tug. Mazzola was no longer turned off as a man-decker.

In return, the Inter captain still had the back-pressing Neeskens in the back, while Boninsegna was still drifting in isolated dribbling. Sergio Pellizzaro replaced after less than an hour the ailing Jair and increased on the right side of the half-space focus.

Meanwhile, Ajax concentrated more on counterattacking. Keizer acted more often as a retarder with his tight ball control. While he was always on the left in the first round, he often moved to the other wing in the last thirty minutes. The Dutch kept their formative balance until the final whistle."

 

And this from Inverting the Pyramid:

Quote

“We could play sixty minutes of pressing,” Swart said. “I’ve never seen any other club anywhere who could do that.” Within a few years, Lobanovskyi’s Dynamo certainly could, but there was no one else, which raises the question of how they were able to maintain that intensity for so long.”

Which then gets into a pharmaceutical discussion 

In some testing (repeatedly simming and reloading an U23 game) it seems to work pretty well on either Attack or Contain, amazingly enough. I still score and allow some goals even when containing.

Note there is still a pretty high line and a fair amount of closing down, even on contain. But the players get a break on tempo and go super narrow.

[Joey Numbaz]

Some thoughts for tweaks ...

Make the right wingback an inverted WB and move the SV up to a Mezzala - I read all about Neeskens pressing and moving forward, not a lot about him dropping back.

Possibly drop the CF back to a F9 or a DLFs? Cruyff was a CF, and it's Dolberg's best position though, so I'm going with CFs for now.

Should the wingbacks be on attack duty? Not sure I want all four wing positions on attack. Just floating ideas.

I think it's important in this type of system that nearly everyone is on support though. Especially with an attacking mentality.

I really need to get the midfield three correct first I suppose. Maybe move the ball winner to the center as a BWMs, and put the BBM on the right?

[Joey Numbaz]

Check out the default closing down for the Attacking version of the tactic on the WB ... similar for the others on the backline too ... I wonder if I should tone that back so the backline keeps its shape?

 

[Joey Numbaz]

Nothing like throwing this into the fire ... fourth game of the Champions League at Juventus, who line up in a 4-2-3-1. I know the high block against a 4-2-3-1 is dangerous, but let's see what happens. We come into the game fresh off beating them 2-1 and lead the group 7-4-4-1. I made none of the changes I thought about above. We are opening on contain. Klaassen gets the responsibility for tight-marking the AP in the 10 position, Mezut Ozil.

We've already caught them offsides twice in the first 6 minutes.

19 minutes in this is a borefest. 1 long shot for Juve, none for us, 53-47 possession in favor of us. Time to turn on the juice. Let's go attacking.

29' Coleman gets a yellow card, he isn't even one of my hard tacklers. Also, whoops, I notice Dolberg sticking to Ozil like a glove ... I had originally set up position switching for the CF and the BBM. But Dolberg isn't much of a MC ... need to turn that off. Eventually, I want this to be where I can have the W/RPM, CF/BBM and RMD/SV swap positions. Because that one be fun in the spirit of Total Football (vertical swapping) and I'm a bit of a hipster.

Anyway, Juve has picked up a could of half chances and we still don't have a shot on goal at the 30' mark. Still 3 of their 4 shots have been long, so I'm not worried. And there we go trapping them offsides again.

Boom our first real chance! 

Due to our press, Szczesny has to boot it long down the left to the big target Mandzukic. Coleman forces him to a terrible forward pass that the Libero Milinkovic intercepts (this tactic will not work without a monster back there - he's got 17 jumping/18 heading and 15 positioning and has been vital - I'm sure his 15 anticipation helps the offside trap too). Anyway, some short passing around (nice triangles I might add), we win a second ball in midfield, and Schneiderlin gets it to Sandro (RW), who hits Sigurdsson maybe 10 yards past the center line on the right (roaming, notice he starts on the left) and Gylfi fires a diagonal to Bolasie charging down the left! Bolasie dribbles up shoots (instead of passing to a charging Dolberg in the middle) from just outside the goalie box and Szczesny bats it away for a corner. When this thing is on it's on. That was beautiful.

40' Juve gets another half chance that looked a whole lot scarier than that. It started well enough, with Ozil to the right of the box being harassed by Klaassen and being forced into a bad pass that Coleman stepped up and intercepted. Sandro dribbled 10 yards past the center line, but should have passed and Alex Sandro stole the ball.

They move it around a little and Alex Sandro gets it back, hits Higuaín just past the midfield circle and he dibbles into acres of space right through my back 4. They all race back with him, including a 5th, the Segundo Volante and Milinkovic and Coleman manage to harass him enough that he has to wait until his 2 feet away from Pickford to shoot and it gets saved Coleman gets the rebound, passes it up to Sandro ... who again dribbles down the pitch without looking for anyone. This time he makes it all the way down, but launches and awful cross to no one. I guess I need to get him some support? Would I be better off giving him "hold up the ball" or "dribble less"? Let's try hold up the ball and see how that goes.

Uh here's another problem, Coleman steps up on Mandzukic, the big Wide Target Man at the halfway line and Alex Sandro goes flying down the line past them both and Mandzukic hits him with a great pass there isn't anyone within 15 yards of him and dribbles all the way into the box. Thankfully Milinkovic is there to block the short cross for a corner. Remember that part about a great sweeper? Yeah, it's important.

Almost made it through to halftime. They scored off a damned throw in. My entire squad went too far over the right side of the pitch and Juve flipped it over to the left with two passes and Mandzukic had an easy shot. Gotta be kidding me.

We hit halftime down 1-0, outshot 9-3, but we managed 48% possession, 4 of their shots were long, they had 3 on target, we had 2. We each had 1 clear cut chance, but they did get four half chances.

I think we actually played OK, but of course, I tell the team that I expect to see much better. They are all fired up.

Look at how tight we are in the heat map.

Adjustments:

The only players with a high rating for them (8.2, 7.9) are Mario Mandzukic and Alex Sandro something has to be done on the right flank. Let's make Sando tight man mark Alex Sandro and see how that goes.

 We are going back to contain to start the second half. If we haven't scored at the 55' mark we'll crank up the juice again.

[skrew]

That, mister, is definitely not a tactic you'll see every day, that's the least I can say

[Joey Numbaz]

Second half. 49' Juan Cuadrado (Juve RW) picks up a knock and is down to 50%. Let's push the LWB Galloway up to A, and kick Bolasie, the LW to support and see what happens. It might be time to bring on Leighton Baines too.

A minute later ... looks like this might be working. Bolasie gets the ball, Galloway is overlapping and ... Bolasie shoots over the goal from 25 yards away. WTF Yannick? Come on dude.

I have to say, Sergej Milinkovic Savic has been all over Higuaín today. It's been impressive to see.

56' we win a corner that could have been a penalty. We are going back to attacking if the corner doesn't go in the net. Coleman and Sandro have their closing down dropped to much less (which is still about 40% of the way up the bar).

69' that'll probably do it. Juve with a goal on the counter. Another terrible pass intercepted mid-field and four runners in the box. Oh well.

Last ditch changes here. Drop the line back slightly, going very wide. Subs, Baines for Galloway (LB), McCarthy for Coleman (RB).

80' ... Goal!! Kasper Dolberg! Sandro, after getting dribble less to go with Hold up the ball, finds himself on the right wing with the ball. Works a one-two with Schneiderlin, and fires a cross to Dolberg in the box who strikes it into the far corner of the net for a goal! Sandro doesn't even have that PPM!

Here's one thing that's working. Despite all of our pressing, playing 30 minutes on contain actually has Juve as the more tired team. They've got players at 64-64-66-69-71. Our most tired player is at 72. Maybe this will work after all!

One last sub ... Davy Klaassen our vice-captain (how different than real life at Everton) is coming out for our 16 year old wonderkid regen, Garry Preston as the BBM. I am training him as the Libero of the future, and I'd swap him with Milinkovic Savic, but as I've said several times, Sergej has been a beast back there. If we haven't tied it with 5 minutes left though, I'll have to make the switch. I tell Garry the pressures off and he seems relaxed.

Sergej, Dolberg, Siggy and Pickford are told to get more creative. I demand more from everyone else.

 84', great counter going, four guys running at the box and Bolasie shoots it long again. Come on man. You are killing me. Shoots less I guess. You are on support already man, jeez.

 BTW, we've got the shots to 17-13 late here ... 5 minutes of stoppage time coming. Preston is Liberoing and Sergej is in the midfield now.

91' cluster mess in midfield 10 yards outside the Juve box. Somehow it pops out to Bolasie. 5 yards in front of the box on the left. He lofts it past a few Juve's with their backs turned to Schneiderlin on the right side of the box, who taps it to Sandro ... Sandro fires a ground ball shot at Szczesny who goes to the ground to deflect it to the left rolling along the line Bolasie finds it and taps it home!!!! The game is tied!!!! Holy cow. This stuff actually works!!!! Thank you @Cleon and Rashidi for everything you've written and you tubed about in game adjustments. This is so much better than plug and play!!

Swapping Preston and Sergej back, but still attacking. Three points are better than one. Juve has switched to a narrow 4-3-3 with 3 strikers by the way. I must have missed that somewhere or it just happened. Whoops. I'd better check that man marking stuff. I'll keep Sandro marking Alex Sandro, but there is no more playmaker so the BBM man marking is off. McCarthy (RB) is going Fullback on defend and Baines (LB) is going WBs. There are still four minutes left, this isn't over.

Juve picks up their 6th offside of the game. love the sweeper offside trap. Gylfi with a long shot (16 rated) from the top of the box off of a throw in that just misses.

And that'll do it. What a draw!!! I've never been so excited with a draw before. I love this team. We practiced this tactic for one day.

If you've slogged through all of that and notice anything tactically that I could/should have done different (or that you like!) please let me know.

 

 

[Joey Numbaz]

OK so I reran the game with the tweaks I was talking about. Coleman moving to IWB. Pushing the SV to Mezzala-support and dropping the BBM to BWMs. Klaassen and Scheiderlin swapped, and Klaassen had man-to-man duty on Ozil as the APs in the 10-hole.

Yeah, that doesn't work. At all. It was 5-0, 36 minutes into the game when I just force quit FM I couldn't even bear to sim it out on commentary. They just destroyed me down the right flank. Complete disaster. Don't do it. I mean, duh, having the only 'screen' (I use that loosely with a BBM) on the right off man-marking the AMC maybe not the smartest idea, especially on the side without a CB (though the sweeper mostly fills that hole). Oh well, lesson learned. Vividly.

[Joey Numbaz]

What worked

Wore out the opposition (30 minutes of contain, 60 of attack)

Milinkovic-Savic, great as a sweeper, handled Higuaín well enough. I mean Higuaín had a 7.7 rating, but no goals or assists and the big Serbian contained him well enough.

Sandro had both assists from the Ramdeuter slot, after switching him to hold up the ball and dribble less.

Bolasie got into the right places but he shot too much from distance.

Crosses - people not named Sandro were 4-for-10. That's great.

Shots on target 44% - not bad considering the opposition.

0 goals over the first 70 minutes - dropping the line to slightly higher and going 100% wide, 2 in the last 20 minutes. Those might become permanent changes.

What didn't

Juve's Wide Target Man on my right flank dominated the game and was Man of the Match

Keane the CB only had a 6.4 rating. Which leads to ...

The passing out of the back was terrible: Coleman 73%, Milinkovic Savic 67%, Keane 72%. Galloway (81%)/Baines (91%) on the left were much better.

Sandro just 1-for-12 on crosses.

The high press. Juve still completed 81% of their passes from defense. Not sure if this was a 4-2-3-1 thing, or if this will need to be tweaked.

Gave up 7 half chances ... A couple of those are going to be goals in the future if I'm not careful. Although maybe dropping back the line will help.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

Here's another pretty picture :-)

[Joey Numbaz]

It's only a youth game, but the next day, our under 18's beat the holy snot out of the Juve's under 19s using the same tactic (attacking version) in the UEFA Youth League, 4-0. Outshot them 16-12, but we had 3-2 CC/half chances, they only had 1-1. We had 9 on target, they only had 3. Nine of their 12 shots were long shots.

We still only completed 67% of passes out of defense. And it wasn't the goalie's fault (75%). The Libero was only 61% and the CB only 52%. I get that he's a BPD, and isn't suited to it, but that's still terrible. I whine, despite the low pass completion %, the Libero had a 9.3 rating, created a chance, had a key pass, and assist and a goal. And he's a monster prospect, the reason I started trying to find a libero tactic in the first place.

The Segundo Volante scored on a great header on a counter running up the pitch, he was on the run, a foot in front of the goal, with an assist on a cross from the corner by the LW. That will be fun if it's typical of the tactic.

Maybe I should kick BPDs back to a CDs. Will keep an eye on that. In the senior game, Keane completed 72% as a BPD, but no key passes or chances created. No one in the defense had a key pass in the whole game actually. I the youth game there were a bunch.

I am a big fan of looking at the youth teams to see if a tactic has issues. I usually have good youth teams, so if they run into trouble, it's often a tactical flag.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

No rest for the wicked ... three days off and then we get Spurs at home, playing some strange narrow 5-2-2-1 with WBs. Will be interesting to see how this tactic handles that formation. Going to have to noodle on this one.

[Joey Numbaz]

For some perspective, I'm off to a great start, it's 2018-19. Last year, with mostly a 4-2-3-1 (which I hate, but had to play due to the players Koeman gave me and no first window transfer budget - the CBs were pretty terrible, my first big transfer was Chancel Mbemba) we managed to finish 3rd and get to the Europa League Final. We won the League Cup, and lost to Arsenal on penalties in the FA Cup semi - Arsenal was awesome and won the league going away.

So I've got a decent team already, Everton does have some good players (Klaassen and Sandro needed a real chance) believe it or not. We added some really good players in the offseason and it's a very good squad now.

We are a bit lucky at 9-1 after 10 games in first place in the league. But the one loss came a couple of weeks ago, a 4-1 defeat at Arsenal (who won the league in 2017-18. Outside of that game, we've outscored opponents 18-1, but still not happy, and we haven't played any of the other big dogs (no Spurs, United, Chelsea or City yet), except for Liverpool who we beat on a miracle 1-0 late (90+4) Bolasie (noticing a trend?) goal. We played a flat 4-5-1 in that one. Liverpool fired Klopp, finished 11th last year and Pellegrini is their coach now, so it's not a good as it sounds.

We lost 3-2 (with an undermanned squad, but still) to Palace at home in the League Cup 4th round game. We only beat Genk 2-1 in the first champions league game and drew 1-1 with Dortmund (Klaassen scored at 85' to salvage that one). We did beat Juve 2-1 in the first game at home, on yes, another miracle goal, Sandro at 90+3. This has been a fun lucky year so far! Why not bring a whole new system in come November when have a 6 point lead in the league?

Which leads to ... we have no real tactical identity. In ten games, we haven't played one tactic for more than 254 minutes (a 4-3-3 narrow). 12 different formations. 7 different formations have gotten at least 49 minutes of time. The main three were a 4-3-3 Narrow, a 5-4-1 Sweeper Asymmetric based on the 2014 Costa Rica World Cup team (dropping the middle CB to sweeper) and a 5-3-2 sweeper narrow. Only ahead 16-8 on clear cut chances for the season, so again there is some luck in the gaudy goal differential. In our last 5 continental games, we've started 5 different formations too.

The Liverpool game was Total Football v1, the flat 4-5-1 sweeper, based in part on Ozil's Cruyff tactic. But it didn't feel right, so I did the research I linked above and came back with what looks like a better fit here.

So I'm hoping this can become our tactical identity. I'll keep posting as it evolves.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

Early v. Spurs, every player between the center line and Tottenham's box. Interesting picture. We've played the whole game on contain so far and outshot them 3-0 with 67% possession. Would love to snag a goal, but it's playing pretty well against this narrow 5-2-2-1. We've been able to move the ball around the box. Klaassen is the Ramdeuter today ... I have a massive spreadsheet that figures out the ratings for each position based on the in game recommendations as weight. Compared to the rest of the team he's off the charts there, so why not try it out?

[kpsia518]

9 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Early v. Spurs, every player between the center line and Tottenham's box. Interesting picture. We've played the whole game on contain so far and outshot them 3-0 with 67% possession. Would love to snag a goal, but it's playing pretty well against this narrow 5-2-2-1. We've been able to move the ball around the box. Klaassen is the Ramdeuter today ... I have a massive spreadsheet that figures out the ratings for each position based on the in game recommendations as weight. Compared to the rest of the team he's off the charts there, so why not try it out?

try study this.

https://thetacticalanalyst.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/bayern-munich-a-mega-analysis/
 

i have some success with "expose the weak side" idea

[Joey Numbaz]

At halftime Spurs have been completely shut down, but we haven't broken through. The don't have a shot, we have 6 (all off target), they've also committed 15 fouls to our 3. Time to come out attacking in the 2nd half.

Horrible team talk. I said you've been the better team, keep it up and you'll win. Like 5 of them switched off. But I salvaged it. Told the defense and midfield they have the ability to make a real difference. Told Sandro his finishing stunk and to get it together. Everyone is happy and motivated, except for Pickford. The players look ready to walk through walls!

 BTW, I changed the high block for this one. I took hard tackling off the midfielders after re-reading Rashidi's comments on the high block.

So we went with wide, slightly higher line for the second half on attack. A few subs too. Sandro started at CF but when he moved back to Ramdeuter I put the hold up ball and dribble less instructions on. Klaassen moved to the RPM and Dolberg is on as the striker.

71' ... Gylfi scores on a nice shot from inside the top of the box off a of a throw in from the corner. Passes from the Libero and BBM get it to him in the center and he blasts it home. We've outshot them 10-1 at this point with 60% possession. Only 2 on target, but we deserve this lead. I'll stay on attack a little longer, but around 75-80 we'll go back to contain if still leading.

Final sub, Mason Holgate at right FB, Milinkovic who was BBM as a sub replaces Mbemba as the Libero and McCarthy moves from FB to BBM (he went back to FB from BBM when Coleman got hurt earlier). Notice all the position switching. I get that it's not Total Football in terms on field coverage for movement, but having very versatile players who can swap in out makes key subs much easier.

Back to contain at 78'.

86' we are still in complete control and Vertonghen gets hurt for Spurs who are out of subs. We are up a man and the extended highlights come live, I'm excited ...

Siggy out on the wings, crosses it low and was it Dolberg or an own goal? Who cares?! 2-0 Everton. They call it an own goal.

Game 2 pretty promising showing for this tactic system, played almost entirely on contain, a 2-0 win over Spurs, we outshot them 11-4. They outfouled us 23-9 and they picked up 3 cards. We had 59% possession. Total domination and we broke through late. Against the 4th place team in the league (granted their goal differential is only 1 so they are doing it with mirrors). We are 8 points clear in the league after 11 games.

Coleman out 9-12 days, but it's international week so he shouldn't miss too much. He is a key to this team. McCarthy is good defensively, but he ain't flying down the wing like Seamus. I don't have anyone else like that for WB right now. Will be interesting to see how this would play without him.

83% passing out of defense this time. Maybe it's not the issue I thought it was. Spurs only 71%.

Only 2 shots on target (plus the questionable own goal). So the offense needs some work breaking down that type of D.

Check out that heat map. The 4-3-3 played like a 6-4-0 with a crazy high line. On Contain.

EDIT - that heat map isn't representative, because of all of the position switching. McCarthy played BBM and WBR; Schneiderlin played BBM and SV; Klaassen played AMR and MCL; Sandro played ST and AMR. Still cool to look at :-)

[Joey Numbaz]

24 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

try study this.

https://thetacticalanalyst.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/bayern-munich-a-mega-analysis/

Thanks! I've got some bedtime reading for tonight. I do train a bunch of players to switch ball to the other flank as well.

[kpsia518]

12 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Thanks! I've got some bedtime reading for tonight. I do train a bunch of players to switch ball to the other flank as well.

CM is the key for the "expose the weak side" tactic.& Rw / LW not allow to move.

push your CM to half-space or even sideline,& AI will marking him,they will follow him.

then your winger wil be free on the other side.

 

read the article with this henry video :

https://thetacticalanalyst.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/bayern-munich-a-mega-analysis/

 

& you will learn :

Quote

why that happen.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

Thanks! Can't wait to check it out. How do you go about pushing your CM to the half space or out wide? Run wide with ball PIs? Anything else? I love the roaming playmaker role Gylfi has been all over the place with that role (although he played AML in the last game).

[Joey Numbaz]

17 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

read the article with this henry video :

https://thetacticalanalyst.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/bayern-munich-a-mega-analysis/

 

That video is incredible. I mean wow. I wish someone had shown me that when I first started playing this game (2010). Thank you for sharing it.

So applying it to the game, stay in your position until the final 3rd. My job as coach is to get you to the final 3rd, your job is to finish it.

Translating that to the game, does that mean be more disciplined as opposed to roam from position? Or do those instructions in the game mean something different? Glad I watched the video first. I'll read the article differently I imagine.

Now I need to figure out how to apply this in terms of FM instructions.

[kpsia518]

5 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Thanks! Can't wait to check it out. How do you go about pushing your CM to the half space or out wide? Run wide with ball PIs? Anything else? I love the roaming playmaker role Gylfi has been all over the place with that role (although he played AML in the last game).

for CM move to half-space,i still need deep study for that,but for now i try "move into channel" + "run wide with ball".
So far so good,but still need do more test.

maybe MEZ or BBM role.

5 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

That video is incredible. I mean wow. I wish someone had shown me that when I first started playing this game (2010). Thank you for sharing it.

So applying it to the game, stay in your position until the final 3rd. My job as coach is to get you to the final 3rd, your job is to finish it.

Translating that to the game, does that mean be more disciplined as opposed to roam from position? Or do those instructions in the game mean something different? Glad I watched the video first. I'll read the article differently I imagine.

Now I need to figure out how to apply this in terms of FM instructions.

I use W-At role,& hold position in team instruction.

 

[Rashidi]

12 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Now I need to figure out how to apply this in terms of FM instructions.

I love the video too, you will find that it captures things most people don't normally see on the telly. When you are watching a "live" Barca game or any match where Pep is managing 2 players so wide and high up the pitch its scary.  It can be done in the game too, however most people will call this an exploit. I use the tools to achieve the kind of football I want to see. Here you need to ask what kind of roles and instructions allows you to get those players to stay wide.

Second thing to remember is that while they are wide, the tenets that he follows are still very much Cryuffs, when they move the ball around they are actually narrow. Players don't need to run very much to get the ball, the whole idea is to build the ball up quickly to feet, only a few players in the team are given the risky pass option. So how do you do this?

You can either use Tis or PIs to get that effect, play less risky passes, short or RP.

Now what about the players who are staying wide. Here we want to look at how this is achieved. You can either choose wide roles like the W, RMD or IF. Most of these roles start wide. You can also use a 3 man striker configuration, here you will want the outer strikers to play with the Run Wide with Ball instruction. This allows them to run between defenders.  so they will position themselves between the FB and defender. If you opt to use the W or IF  then they will start out wide. You do not and never want them to use Hold Position if they are support duties. That instruction reduces their efficacy in the defensive transition.

.

Here you will see my No 8 stay wide.

In this I am playing a 343 in possession of the ball, this is during the midfield transition so you can see how my strikers are between the spaces. When they get the ball they will receive it and run to wide positions.

If you want a centrally placed midfielder in halfspace like this, then use a role like a Mezzala or one that gives the option to Run Wide with Ball. The best role is naturally the Mezzala. Here he enters the half space and makes himself available for the pass.  I hope this helps

 

 

[juusal]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

If you opt to use the W or IF  then they will start out wide. You do not and never want them to use Hold Position if they are support duties. That instruction reduces their efficacy in the defensive transition.

Wait, is hold position a defensive instruction? I thought it only applies when your team has the ball?

[Joey Numbaz]

1 hour ago, juusal said:

Wait, is hold position a defensive instruction? I thought it only applies when your team has the ball?

I thought the same ... that it was an offensive instruction. I could see how roaming on offense would put you out of position at least during the transition before you get back into position (which is what I think Rashidi was getting at). Then closing down and marking determines your defensive positioning.

[juusal]

1 hour ago, Joey Numbaz said:

I thought the same ... that it was an offensive instruction. I could see how roaming on offense would put you out of position at least during the transition before you get back into position (which is what I think Rashidi was getting at). Then closing down and marking determines your defensive positioning.

According to the PI screen it's an instruction for when your team has the ball.

What @Rashidi said though that holding position harms defensive transitions, not roaming. I could imagine that if a player roams away from his position he leaves a gap in a defensive transition, but when he holds his position? Not so sure

[Park]

I may be misunderstanding you @Rashidi, but how are those latter two images like what Man City do? Those strikers are playing centrally and then, with the 'run wide with ball', going wide when they have possession. But Man City have permanent width, with players (mainly Sane) who wait wide for a teammate's pass.

[kpsia518]

3 hours ago, Park said:

I may be misunderstanding you @Rashidi, but how are those latter two images like what Man City do? Those strikers are playing centrally and then, with the 'run wide with ball', going wide when they have possession. But Man City have permanent width, with players (mainly Sane) who wait wide for a teammate's pass.

we got 3 part of the field,Defensive Third,midfield third,attacking third.

from defensive Third to midfield third,RLW stay wider,don't move.
after we got in to attacking third you can do every thing.

but from the 1st pic & 4th pic,i will hoping "more wider for RW/LW".
i think i want more than that,more wider,or maximum wide.

 

[kpsia518]

24 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

we got 3 part of the field,Defensive Third,midfield third,attacking third.

from defensive Third to midfield third,RLW stay wider,don't move.
after we got in to attacking third you can do every thing.

but from the 1st pic & 4th pic,i will hoping "more wider for RW/LW".
i think i want more than that,more wider,or maximum wide.

 

just like this :

more wider,or maximum.

just stand far far far away from the team,wait there far far away.
so i will pick hold position in TI.

 

another thing is how to push your FB that high & narrow ?

 

[Rashidi]

With Hold Position, a player in a support duty won't swap positions with another if required. So for example, you have a setup where you have a CM pushing up against a ML and he has been told to hold position, you may see less swapping between positions and this can play a part in defensive transitions.  If you want them to stay wider, during the buildup phase, tell them to stay wider.  Only issue I have with this is it deviates from total football, where players are expected to defend smaller areas.  In other words, when they defend its narrow.

[juusal]

3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

With Hold Position, a player in a support duty won't swap positions with another if required. So for example, you have a setup where you have a CM pushing up against a ML and he has been told to hold position, you may see less swapping between positions and this can play a part in defensive transitions.  If you want them to stay wider, during the buildup phase, tell them to stay wider.  Only issue I have with this is it deviates from total football, where players are expected to defend smaller areas.  In other words, when they defend its narrow.

Well it's not like players switch positions like that anyway, hold position or not.

Stay wider is another on the ball command, no? So it should not affect (and I have been testing these sort of situations lately) their defensive positioning. In defensive transitions sure as you have just lost the ball and being too wide might mean that you are out of the game but that's pretty much it.

What I have noticed effects your defensive width a lot is player duty. Support duties on wide players tend to get inside a lot when defending, whereas attack duties stay really wide. I find this really infuriating, why can't they give us proper tools to affect our defensive shape.

[Joey Numbaz]

8 hours ago, juusal said:

I find this really infuriating, why can't they give us proper tools to affect our defensive shape.

Exactly! Why can't I tell him to hold position on offense, and roam (meaning cover if someone else is out of position) when defending?

[kpsia518]

1 hour ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Exactly! Why can I tell him to hold position on offense, and roam (meaning cover if someone else is out of position) when defending?

need to do more study on hold position or not.Need more test to understand that.

but another issue is,how to do that ?

LB push up up high,or some some push into AM's half-space  position.

& LCM fall back as fb

 

 

[juusal]

3 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Exactly! Why can't I tell him to hold position on offense, and roam (meaning cover if someone else is out of position) when defending?

We are even lacking basic options. For example, wide players could have defensive options like get inside, where he would go into a narrow shape and close down on his wing only when the ball goes there, otherwise staying close to the midfielders, or cover defence, where he would drop deeper to help out the fullback rather than stay high or central. Besides, none of these should not have much to do with how a player plays in offence (except right after your team wins or loses the ball), so I don't understand why currently duty determines how a player positions without the ball. Why can't I have an inside forward on attack come inside to help out the midfield in defending? It's not really an unrealistic thing to ask.

[Joey Numbaz]

12 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Only issue I have with this is it deviates from total football, where players are expected to defend smaller areas.  In other words, when they defend its narrow.

Yeah that was a big theme in the Total Football chapter in Inverting the Pyramid ... they attacked wide and defended narrow and compressed. Basically reduce the space when defending and expand it when attacking.

[Joey Numbaz]

9 hours ago, juusal said:

Well it's not like players switch positions like that anyway, hold position or not.

Actually I have seen them do this in at least one of Rashidi's FM game videos I watched the other the day. The WB stepped up to close down the midfielder dropped back into his space on the back line. It was pretty great to see. I wasn't able to take notes at the time when I was watching, but I'd love to know how you made that happen :-)

[juusal]

16 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Actually I have seen them do this in at least one of Rashidi's FM game videos I watched the other the day. The WB stepped up to close down the midfielder dropped back into his space on the back line. It was pretty great to see. I wasn't able to take notes at the time when I was watching, but I'd love to know how you made that happen :-)

I was talking on the ball, but anyway, (especially defensive) midfielders tend to cover fullbacks if they venture out of position to close down someone and if they don't have their own player to mark. I guess they also need sufficient work rate and teamwork. Also, don't trust them to do this consistently or be there on time, just hope that they do it when your fullback decides to go on a walkabout, or just have your fullbacks close down less so they don't act stupid and hold their shape rather than run around like a headless chicken =)

[Joey Numbaz]

Finally played another game. Between being out of town and the in-game international break there was a several day hiatus. We did not do well away against Chelsea's 4-1-2-3 wide with a Wide Advanced Player Maker. Actually Hazard on the other side was more of the problem in the first half.

We weren't able to play Milinkovic Savic as Libero, he was exhausted after the international break. I sent him home for 3 days.

I started on contain and forgot to close down the back line. Gave up a goal 17', was being outshot 6-0 despite 57% possession.

We switched to Attacking. Gylfi suffered a minor injury, but we ended up getting one back before halftime.

I didn't really tweak much, tried the LB on Attacking but didn't see it helping so dropped him back to support. 80' Dolberg got hurt, after I had already used my last sub. Went back to contain, played the rest of the game without an AMR and hung on for the draw. We were outshot 21-11, 18-2 while playing on contain. We outshot them 9-3 while attacking. They had 11 chances, 5 clear cut, we only had 3, 2 clear cut. We were very lucky to escape with a draw. All of the half chances came from the right flank. So that's still area that needs attention.

Willian ended up being the player of the match, but he did most of his damage late while Coleman was the only one on that flank. Still a work in progress here.

[Joey Numbaz]

We are continuing to evolve. After losing to Genk's 4-2-3-1, 1-0, despite dominating in the mid-week Champions League match, I implemented Rashidi's Low Block on the Contain tactic for the game against Watford, who played a 4-4-1-1 with two DMs, including a deep-lying playmaker. I played Milankovic Savic as the striker in this game, as I needed a big guy who could handle the long balls from the back that come with the low-block. Michael Keane played Libero.

We completely dominated the game, played entirely on contain. Outshot them 30-8, with 61% possession. They fouled us 19 times and got 3 cards. We only fouled 6 times. They had no chances, we had 6, including two clear cut. However, we only won 1-0, and the goal was a penalty. 15 of the 30 shots were long, I kicked on work the ball into box early in the second half, but it didn't seem to matter.

Late in the game they pushed the FB-d to WB-a and the W-s to W-a chasing a goal, so I dropped all the way back into a 5-4-1. We held them off for the win. Six of their eight shots were long shots too. We dominated in the air, winning 25-of-34 contested headers.

I kind of like this tweak. I can't believe I played the entire game on contain/very fluid and managed 30 shots.

Same Formation as in the original post

Contain/Very Fluid:

Exploit the middle

Use Tighter marking

Use Offside Trap

Roam from positions

Much deeper defensive line

Play much narrower

PIs were:

FB's - Close down more, tackle hard

CD/SW - tackle hard

SV - Close down more, tackle hard, get further forward, move into channels

BBM - Move into channels, fewer risk passes, man-mark DM(L) who was the playmaker, mark tighter

RPM - Close down more, tackle harder

I'd like to get a little more punch in attack ... any ideas? Great that it shuts the other team down though!

[Joey Numbaz]

We got pretty hammered by Manchester United playing a 4-2-3-1. But there were some successes.

We man-marked and completely shut down Pogba, playing as a MCL DLPs.

We wore them down, playing on contain for the first 30 minutes. They were tired at the end of the game. That being said they picked up a goal after halftime but we turned up the attack, including pushing the line all the way up and finally broke through for a goal in the 83rd minute on the counter.

But, I forgot to drop the line back after that. And at 90+2, Mata scored for them on the counter. As they were running back, I thought, "Oh crap, I forgot to drop the line back" hoping this one wouldn't be a goal. Oh well.

We were outshot 27-9, but 15 of their shots were long. We were at 50/50 possession while on contain, but by the end of the game it was 55-45 United. We only had one shot on target, the goal, United had 11.

I changed things up some, so see if I could unlock them. At halftime, I replaced Bolasie (LWa) with Sigurdsson, who ended up scoring, I made him an APs, and took the RPMs, and made him a MEZa. I also pushed the LWBs up to a CWBs. By the time Gylfi scored though, he was a winger again and the MCL was a RPM.

Still experimenting. Open to ideas.

 

[Joey Numbaz]

The U23s just played a game against Grimsby where we outshot them 27-3 ... and drew 1-1. We only had 10 on target (Grimsby had 2). 63% possession. All good except so many (19!!) long shots. Only one clear cut chance (3 half).

Looks like 17/6, 18/7, and 9 are the big offenders.

That's the striker (9), the BBM (17/6) and RPM (7/18).

Grimsby played a deep 4-2-3-1 (2 DM) with both full-backs on defend too.

They are all on support duty. The W and RMD are both attacking. Do I need to give one of them a support duty also? They both play further up the pitch than the striker, especially the RMD (on the right):

This seems like a bigger issue than just turning on Work Ball Into the Box or telling those guys to shoot less.

Part of me wants to kick the CFs back to a F9, but I feel like I need someone to hold up the ball. F9 cannot do that. I think I am going to permanently add hold up ball to the RMD, if that's a big mistake someone please let me know why ...

Here's the tactic right now:

PIs

SK - short kicks, to CBs

Both FBs - Dribble less, fewer risky passes

VOL - Dribble less, fewer risky passes, close down more, get forward, move into channels

BBM - Fewer risky passes, move into channels

RPM - Close down more

Front 3 - All close down more and tackle harder.

Proposed changes:

Turn off fewer risky passes on the BBM and VOL

Add hold up ball to the RMD

Based on the player:

Switch the Wa to APs; Switch RPMs to MEZa.

For example Bolasie isn't a playmaker, he's an attacking winger. Sigurdsson on the other hand, is a playmaker. So depending on which one is on the wing, I make the switch. Davies can play RPM or MEZ, so he can just adapt to fit the guy he's playing with.

[Joey Numbaz]

Ran the proposed changes for the U18 match vs. Dortmund in the Youth Champions League.

BBM and VOL normal risk passes. RMD holds up ball. We are playing a much better opponent relatively too.

And ... a 2-0 victory to win the group. The Libero and backup striker scored. Both late goals (77', 84'), against a worn out opponent.

Volante launched a bomb down the sideline, RMD crossed it in for the striker on the run. The libero goal was off an indirect free kick that was headed to him.

We outshot them 15-8, and with 3 clear cut chances (and 3 half), only four long shots! And that was against a 4-1-4-1 too.

It's just one youth game, but it looks like those changes helped some at least.

 

 

[Joey Numbaz]

West Brom (7th place on Dec. 15). Playing a 4-1-2-3 against us. BBM is tightly man-marking the MCR for West Brom, DLP, Hector Herrera. We opened with the attacking tactic. Sandro is Complete Forwarding and Klaassen is Ramdeutering today too.

It's pretty ugly early. West Brom got a CCC on a mistake as my CB (Chancel Mbemba) just lost concentration on a pass from the GK right at the top of the box. Luckily the shot went wide. Need to pay attention though, might have to turn off play out of defense, or at least change the distribution.

I decided to drop the line back to normal after being outshot 3-0 in the first 8 minutes with no signs of anything from the offense, and we were being outpossessed 60/40. I also turned off dribble less and fewer risky passes on the fullbacks. Let's open them up a little.

No more highlights (on extended) until the 18'. West Brom has a corner. Coleman clears it, Bolasie takes it and runs the distance down the right flank, crosses it in, we miss a shot, but get the rebound and Sando passes it over to Klaassen who walks it in. Doesn't say much about the tactical changes, but I'll take it.

I will stay on attacking until 30' or if we score a goal. Then switch back to contain to rest up for the second half.

No highlights or shots until 27' ... we have a corner, the rebound bounces out and Gylfi fires in a 25 yard shot to give us a 2-0. Again, nothing great with the tactic, other than possession is up to 54-46 us and it was our 4th corner of the game. So I guess that's something. Time to go to the contain version, which now has a super deep line and a low block. Still very fluid though. No play out of defense or SK instructions with this variant.

Uh oh, Galloway has a yellow and the new tactic has him tackling harder ... whoops. I remember as West Brom are running down my left flank. No red card. Changing him to easy tackling, hope that doesn't impact the low block too much.

We nearly score on the break at 43' but Sandro hits the post. It was a great chance though.

We are up 2-0 at the half but West Brom has outshot us 8-4, CCC 1-1, HC 1-3 in favor of West Brom. We do have 55% possession at least. I tell the team not to get complacent and they love it.

Gylfi picked up a knock, so Konrad Laimer is coming in. He'll go BBM and Scheiderlin will take over the RPM. Herrera has been a non-factor, no key passes or chances created only a 6.5 rating.

Baines is coming in for Galloway so the left back can hard tackle again. No other tactical changes.

Jeez. 61' I realize my subs never went in? Weird. Galloway has been tackling harder. Dodged a bullet. Possession is up to 58%. Let's turn on retain possession for fun at 67'.

71' experiment with Sandro as a DLFs instead of CFs. Still on contain. We aren't doing much of anything except killing off the game.

Coleman gets a yellow at 81' so I use my last sub to bring in Keane for Coleman, he goes to CB while Mbemba moves out to FB.

85' I'm going back to attack just to experiment up 2-0. I want to see how the plays against a team chasing 2 goals.

We close it out, 2-0. outshot 14-9, and 5 of our 9 shots were long. Two luckyish goals and then we just closed them out, playing for 60 minutes on contain. 59% possession. Once again we took the opposition playmaker out of the game.

I told the team they need to step it up against better opposition Klaassen, Bolasie and Coleman were confused and demotivated. Everyone else was fired up.

Bolasie 7.5, you did well. Now switched off and confused. Oh well, he'll get over it.

[Joey Numbaz]

First U18 game with the switched roles (RPM -> MEZ; W->AP). We didn't have our wonderkid striker, who is hurt, and I played a couple of the kids out of position to make them more versatile long term, including the APM, RMD, right FB. We outshot Leicester's 4-4-2 20-5, 7 long shots, 11 on target, 3-4 chances to 1-1. 56% possession. We won 3-1 and their goal was a penalty. So that's a good sign that the changes might work.

[kpsia518]

4 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

First U18 game with the switched roles (RPM -> MEZ; W->AP). We didn't have our wonderkid striker, who is hurt, and I played a couple of the kids out of position to make them more versatile long term, including the APM, RMD, right FB. We outshot Leicester's 4-4-2 20-5, 7 long shots, 11 on target, 3-4 chances to 1-1. 56% possession. We won 3-1 and their goal was a penalty. So that's a good sign that the changes might work.

have you try MEZ + BBM ?

with 2 W on the wing ?

[Joey Numbaz]

2 W on the wing? Not sure I understand.

But yes, I tried this, note the MEZa and the BBM, with a APs on the wing. The players were different, Klaassen was the MEZ, Siggy the APs and Sandro the RAM in this configuration.

But this seems to be working much better. It's the APa with the BBM in central midfield, with the Ws on the wing.

We had a very meh 0-0 draw with Middlesbrough playing with the first formation. Outshot them 19-11, but no CCC, 9 long shots, gave up 2 CCC to them.

Switched to the above formation (actually started the game with the RPM at MCL, but wasn't generating much so switched him to a AP instead. Maybe I just got lucky, but it seems to work better. We beat Stoke 3-0, CCC 2-0 and HC 5-3. I already have roaming for the whole team, so maybe it was too much roaming.

Played that again against Crystal Palace, and put up another 3-0 win. We were up 1-0 at 30 minutes and switched to the Contain/Very Fluid version, and rode that out the rest of the way, for a 3-0 win. One of the goals was a Gylfi direct free kick (), but the other was some nice movement at 80' where Vlasic (from the Ramdeuter position) was found in a great spot in the box for an easy finish. The APa at MCL and Ws at LW seems to generate better movement, but it's just a couple of games so far.

I notice also that I *must* put the opposition instructions down for the high block when using the attacking version (close down and hard tackle everyone on the GK/SW/DB/DM stratas). When I forget to do that, bad things seem to happen.

The latest two versions:

ATTACK

Used to start the match against bad teams. Try to use no more than 60 minutes per match. Notice that big red intensity bar. That is a bug, not a feature of this tactic and will lead to injuries if you abuse it.

Against good teams, I'll switch to this after 30 minutes if I'm not winning. Rest of the game just depends.

TI Tweaks

Against good teams, be careful with that defensive line. Drop it back to normal if you are getting scared by the highlights.

Chasing a goal push the line all the way up.

PIs

SK - distribute to CBs, take short kicks. If the CBs are being pressed I'll switch to FBs or turn this off.

Fullbacks, dribble less, fewer risky passes. I'm getting less enamored of this and find myself turning it off more, stay tuned.

Segundo Volante, dribble less, close down more, get further forward and move into channels. I've been turning off dribble less too, especially when I have a good dribbler there, like Tom Davies

BBM - man-mark opposition playmaker if central, tight marking if man-marking, shoot less often, move into channels

AP - close down more

The front three all close down more and tackle harder. The Ramdeuter holds up the ball too.

OIs

Close down and tackle hard anyone in the GK/SW/D/DM stratas

CONTAIN

Used for at least 30 minutes per match

Against good teams I'll start with this, if I fall behind or haven't scored by 30', I switch to attack

Against bad teams I switch to this at 30' or if I go up 2 goals. If I am tied to start the second half I'll use this for the first 10-15 minutes I haven't used it for 30 minutes already.

TI tweaks:

I occasionally use exploit the middle, depending on the opponent. I turn off tight marking sometimes too.

Sometimes I'll switch to more direct passing, if I think the opponent is trying to overload up front. Down 2-0, Stoke switched to a 3, 4 (all at midfield strata), 2 central AMCs, 1 formation, which was pretty wild. So I exploited the flanks and used more direct passing.

PIs

Back line all tackle harder

Both fullbacks, close down more; I notice the opposition wings are vulnerable, I will bump the WB to CWB and the FB to WB

Segundo Volante close down more, get further forward move into channels

BBM - man-mark opposition playmaker if central, tight marking if man-marking, fewer risky passes, move into channels

AP - close down more (turn this off if he's out of position or doubling up too much)

Results since the switch:

 

[Joey Numbaz]

The thing I'm somewhat disappointed with is the Libero. I am a stubborn SOB, so I am sticking with it, but I wish I could get more out of him. I am hoping as he becomes more familiar with the position and tactic he will do more offensively there and get higher ratings. He has been great defensively, IMO.

He also has shoots with power and dictates tempo.

 

[Abdiel_rivera10]

Ever got this to work or was it a fail?

[westy8chimp]

Total football or total mess  

Good thread. some things I can't forgive, however, hipster you are ... like; offside trap with a staggered defence?

[Joey Numbaz]

Heh ... I stopped playing for about 7 weeks (roughly March 25 - May 15), if I must admit, I rewatched/caught up on the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe (including TV shows) during that time in preparation for Infinity War 

When I came back, I got kind of bored and moved on. With @herne79's inspiration, I've been trying to work on simpler tactics that make use of roles and minimal team/player instructions.

Also, @Cleon's thread on the Libero came out and he made a point of saying that if you want a LIBa to work, you need to clear out the DM's and no playmakers except for a DLP in the MC strata.

I do still have the save going, but I switched tactics up.

That being said, I absolutely think something like this *could* work, it worked OK for me and I am no tactical genius. With a few tweaks, it could be great. I have learned a bunch reading Lines and Diamonds since then as well and catching up on some Libero and defensive tactic related threads here and elsewhere.

Maybe try making the APa a DLPs, make the VOLs a MEZs. Switch the BPDs to a CDd. Although I don't know how much that takes away from the replication of what Ajax actually did. Maybe make the Ws an IFs too if that suits your player better.

[Joey Numbaz]

11 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Total football or total mess  

Good thread. some things I can't forgive, however, hipster you are ... like; offside trap with a staggered defence?

Half the time the Libero isn't back there yet anyway! And a lot of times they do play not that staggerdly! EDIT - Also, from Lines and Diamonds I found out that Attack/Overload automatically adds an offside trap anyway ...

EDIT II: with a staggered defense, only one player has to step up! It's easier to coordinate!

[fthy]

fm 2019?