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Won the quintuple but nobody wants to buy my players


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So in my first season with Man United (easy mode, I know) I won the quintuple which you might think would result in a high demand for players in the squad, especially considering almost all of them achieved very good average ratings.

However I seem unable to get any decent amount for any player. I noticed the issue as soon as the transfer window opened in the summer as I was looking to sell Shaw cause he only had a year left on his deal and his wage demands were ridiculous but I found the most I was able to get for him was £2.5m from Sevilla. This seemed a bit unrealistic but given how big his wage demands were I accepted it. Then I decided to see what I could get for the rest of my squad, bear in mind not one of them had the 'wnt' tag on them so I had to offer them out to clubs to get offers. Here is the most I could get for all the players I offered out:

Alexis Sanchez (36 goals the previous season, 16 assists, 7.46 avg rating) - £10m

Juan Mata (12 goals, 11 assists, 7.25 avg rating, value of £65m) - £10m

Anthony Martial (53 goals and 17 assists in about 45 starts and 2 sub appearances, scored an incredible goal in the Champions League final, won the best player in Europe award before winning the World Cup with France while also scoring in that final, value of £67m) - £45m + £30k wage contribution

Chris Smalling (7.32 avg rating, value of £29m) - £10m

Sergej Milinkovic Savic (10 goals and 11 assists from cm, 7.43 avg rating, arguably the best box to box midfielder in the game after the winter update) - £45m (£10m less than I paid for him)

Jose Gaya (my first choice left back all year, 7.28 avg rating, value of £38.5m) - £15m

Eric Bailly (7.52 avg rating, value of £48m) - £22.5m non-negotiable then £30m non-negotiable when initial offer rejected

Marcos Rojo (7.44 avg rating, value of £29m) - £16m

Marcus Rashford (24 goals, 16 assists, 7.31 avg rating, value of £59m) - £30m non-negotiable initally then £40m non-negotiable when initial offer rejected

Arthur (7.15 avg rating, only 21 with loads of potential, value of £44.5m) - £17.75m non-negotiable

Ander Herrera (7.09 avg rating, value of £52m) - no offers despite offering out for £5m

Jesse Lingard (17 goals, 13 assists, 7.25 avg rating) - no offers despite offering out for £10m

 

I could have likely got a little more for each player if I negotiated with each club but everyone who plays fm knows clubs rarely substantially improve their offer after the initial bid. I'm also aware offering players out will reduce the value of the offers you get for them but even so it seems a little ridiculous that no one was interesting in paying £80m for Anthony Martial given he'd just won everything there is to win the previous season while scoring well over a goal a game. Surely if he had that season in real life United would comfortably get £150m+ for him if they wanted to?

Has anyone else had similar issues selling players when playing as a top team?

Edited by 91427
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4 minutes ago, 91427 said:

However I seem unable to get any decent amount for any player. I noticed the issue as soon as the transfer window opened in the summer as I was looking to sell Shaw cause he only had a year left on his deal and his wage demands were ridiculous but I found the most I was able to get for him was £2.5m from Sevilla.

Why is any of this surprising?  You want to sell, and he represents a huge financial outlay.

You're doing the same with all the other players.  You're indicating that you want to sell the players, so why do you expect the AI to just blindly offer high amounts?  They're low-balling you to either pull a fast one or start a negotiation.  You've not started yourself out on the right footing for any of that.

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If Mourinho had been offered 2.5 million for Shaw in real life, he probably wouldn't be at Man United now. Likewise, many of the other offers sound plausible, or actually very good. Sanchez's wages mean getting 10 million is surprising, very few clubs could afford his wages at all. Mata with age/wage factors combined is another good deal, as I would say Smalling was too.

 

For the younger players, the problem you are facing is that these players are on huge wages already - and your success just means they think they are worth even more on top of that to move.

 

Why would a happy player, winning everything, move for the same wages or less, after all? Factor in how many teams in the world can afford the wages within their budget, and have a need in the specific position, and the player would consider going to. Your pool of available purchasers is tiny. 

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being Man Utd i Imagine most of those player would not want to go to Liverpool or Man City (due to the rivalry)  

also think they would also only want to go to teams in the champions league

so not many clubs would be able to sign them and the ones that could will try and get a player you offered out for as cheap as possible 

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

How many leagues are you running with what sized database? 

What time of year exactly were you offering these players out? 

I run loads of leagues, even those that are fairly poor quality like in Scandinavia. About 85k player count iirc

Right after the Champions League final all the way up to the closing of the English transfer window so a long space of time.

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This is also a video game and we have to use the tools at our disposal, in this case transfer listing and offering players out and I agree with OP these tools are not particularly effective. In real life things would be different, the manager and the board would probably speak with players agents and the agents would use their connections to get offers from clubs. I think the caliber of players in OP would likely get a few offers from top clubs in England or Europe or China. Then they might accept or reject those offers, but I agree more appealing offers should be there in first place.

Edited by kandersson
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33 minutes ago, hluraven said:

If Mourinho had been offered 2.5 million for Shaw in real life, he probably wouldn't be at Man United now.

Not particularly on topic but this really isn't true given United how United have no left back depth at all. And the Shaw I offered out is very different to the one in real life as in my game he was coming off an excellent season where he stayed injury free.

33 minutes ago, hluraven said:

Sanchez's wages mean getting 10 million is surprising, very few clubs could afford his wages at all. Mata with age/wage factors combined is another good deal, as I would say Smalling was too.

I get your point about Sanchez to an extent but your point about selling Mata for £10m being a good deal could hardly be more wrong. Very few better no. 10s in the game and he doesn't rely on physical attributes at all meaning he's still quality when he's like 32/33. Danny Welbeck went for £16m years ago for god's sake, a 29 year old Mata is worth far, far more. Smalling as well is worth far more than £10m, absolutely no chance you could buy a better replacement for less

33 minutes ago, hluraven said:

For the younger players, the problem you are facing is that these players are on huge wages already - and your success just means they think they are worth even more on top of that to move.

Rashford was on £20k a week and only got offers from 1 club during my experiment

33 minutes ago, hluraven said:

Why would a happy player, winning everything, move for the same wages or less, after all? Factor in how many teams in the world can afford the wages within their budget, and have a need in the specific position, and the player would consider going to. Your pool of available purchasers is tiny. 

They would move because the manager tells them they aren't wanted anymore, which is what transfer listing and setting a player to not needed translates to in real life. I'm sure Beckham was very happy, winning loads and earning lots at United but when Fergie told him he wasn't wanted and an offer from Real Madrid comes in it becomes a no brainer.

Martial scored far more than Ronaldo did in his best season at United yet didn't get offers anywhere near the £80m RM paid for Ronaldo nearly 10 years ago. Both Bayern and PSG spent big on wingers in the summer, buying Mane (£60~m) and Brandt (£72m). Both players scored less than 10 goals the season before. There is absolutely no reason they should turn down Martial for less money in favour of far worse players

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39 minutes ago, kandersson said:

In real life things would be different, the manager and the board would probably speak with players agents and the agents would use their connections to get offers from clubs.

This does a good job of summing up what FM fails to replicate. In FM to get a good offer the buying club almost always has to come to you rather than the other way around. This is fine when you're playing as Ajax or someone like that because at least half your team is always wanted by one club or another but when you play as a top club the AI assumes your players aren't available and so doesnt try to buy them very often. As a result if you do want to move players on you end up having to sell them for below market price.

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With my Liverpool save I also have won a lot, and I have a lot of offers for my players. To name a few of the sales I've made:

Mignolet - To Zenith for £20,5M
Ings - To Stoke for £13M
Flanagan - To Stoke for £10M
Sturridge - To Southampton for £34,5M
Mane - To Barcelona for £66M
Lovren - To Leicester for £37,5M
Markovic - To Köln for £8,75M
Origi - To Inter for £28M

These are a couple of the ones I've sold for a decent fee compared to what I would want for them. A couple of them have been offered out, and some have been negotiated after an initial offer. It's quite easy to sell players HOWEVER you cannot expect a player to leave to a worse club if he is happy and playing at the best club in the world. And AI teams will only offer for players they think will join them, the same way we users have "realistic transfers" as a filter. If the player in on crazy wages (like Sanchez) they know they will not afford him and if they can afford the wage they won't pay big bucks for him.

If you are offering them out and transfer listing them on top of that you are telling the teams "Please take these players off my hands, I don't want them anymore" and why on earth would they offer high fees then? You don't pay a premium fee if the player is on the way out anyway. You try a cheeky lowball bid to get in value for the money. The AI does much the same.

That said, the transfer AI isn't that impressive and I feel it's too simple to sell for big money and bring in talents cheaply. As I have sold those players I have bough the following (and then some):

Rajkovic - From Tel Aviv for £7,75M
Dier - From Tottenham for £40M
Asensio - From Real Madrid for £56M
Dolberg - From Ajax for £30M
Tah - From Leverkusen for £30M

So I've changed out a lot of poor players with better and cheaper players quite easily. I would like to see a cleverer AI in squad building and transfers to make it harder in the long term.

 

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I think this is mostly result of current wages for the players you are trying to move out. If, after offering them out, any teams become interested, try making offers with wage contribution clauses. Might make more palatable. 

 

Fristrating at times, but also fairly realistic. How many teams could take on Sánchez today in the world? Then how many of those clubs have a need in that position. 

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3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

How many leagues are you running with what sized database? 

What time of year exactly were you offering these players out? 

When is the ideal time? I've assumed right before or right after the transfer window has opened, before teams have blown their budget. But is there more to it?

And about the database, I get it that the more players that are flooding the market, the more difficult it is to move any particular one. But is there any sort of rule of thumb? I am using 30 leagues from 12 nations with about 65,000 players (medium DB) and have difficulty getting anyone to bite. I've even offered players out for nothing more than a 20% sell-on and nada.

This seems a good place for a couple of things I've been wondering.... for example, does the status you set affect how likely an AI team is to put in an offer? If I have him as First Team, but transfer listed, will he be less likely to be bid on than if he was set to not needed? Backup? Does this have any effect?

I've always assumed that you set a player to Not Needed to try and nudge him out the door, to make the player more likely to agree terms with the new club, but perhaps it affects those who might place a bid.

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2 hours ago, kandersson said:

In real life things would be different, the manager and the board would probably speak with players agents and the agents would use their connections to get offers from clubs.

A long time ago in FM (FM10 or 12 maybe?) you used to have the ability to offer a player to specific clubs, so if you were trying to offload a DC you could look for appropriate clubs who were seeking players in that position. Would be nice to have that back.

But to the point about agents, isn't that how it works now when you ask a player to make a move? Presumably that instigates the reverse situation where agents and players constantly approach you to offer their services.

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5 hours ago, warlock said:

A long time ago in FM (FM10 or 12 maybe?) you used to have the ability to offer a player to specific clubs, so if you were trying to offload a DC you could look for appropriate clubs who were seeking players in that position. Would be nice to have that back.

But to the point about agents, isn't that how it works now when you ask a player to make a move? Presumably that instigates the reverse situation where agents and players constantly approach you to offer their services.

You can offer out to specific clubs.

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3 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

You can offer out to specific clubs.

Well, excuuuuuse me! How, exactly? I've just looked at offering a player and it certainly isn't obvious.

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1 hour ago, warlock said:

Well, excuuuuuse me! How, exactly? I've just looked at offering a player and it certainly isn't obvious.

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On the "Offer to Clubs" screen, you click the "Targets" tab, and from there you can exclude particular types of clubs, or use the "Add" option next to "Clubs To Propose To", where you can type the name of a club and select it to offer the player specifically to them.

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The thing is, when you offer to clubs by default it offers to EVERY club. When you propose to specific clubs, you're actually limiting the number of clubs you're offering to, not expanding it. 

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11 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

On the "Offer to Clubs" screen, you click the "Targets" tab, and from there you can exclude particular types of clubs, or use the "Add" option next to "Clubs To Propose To", where you can type the name of a club and select it to offer the player specifically to them.

Well, colour me astonished! No idea how I've missed that all these years.

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I'm not sure this has been mentioned but at the bottom of the offer screen there is a tick box that defaults to transfer list and not needed.  If a team sees that you have done this then they will assume they can offer whatever for the player because you don't want them.  Try unticking that box before offering out and see what happens.  Also, I find that if you use the 'unspecified' amount rather than a dictated amount the bids tend to be more in line with what you're after.

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Can't recall who it was, but someone made a really good, really simple, but rather eye-opening point in one of these threads many moons ago. They just pointed out that all the reasons that you want to get rid of a player are of the same reasons that a lot of clubs won't want them. And a lot of the same logic you use when looking at a player and deciding whether or not to buy them, whether its worth your time to even try, is the same logic the AI is going to apply.

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I’m currently doing a Man Utd save which I’ve not long started, but don’t seem to have the same problem.

I managed to sell smalling for 27 mil quite easily, negotiated spurs up 8-9 mil from their original offer. Also managed to sell darmain for 17 mil after AC Milan had initially offered 9mil.

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It's the usual vicious cirlce involving CA, PPA, Player Rep and Clubs Rep.

a) Clubs with lower Rep won't make an offer for a player they deem as "out of their league" (due to either high CA, PPA or Rep), as they know he'll turn the contract down. (ie. Huddersfield won't make a move for a transfer-listed Smalling, not even if the asking price is 10k)

b) Clubs about your level won't make an offer exactly for the same reason you're trying to offload him...

c) Clearly, clubs above your level don't need your deadwood either.

 

While option c makes perfect sense, b and especially a are debatable.

There's been plenty of examples of "rejects" turning out fine or even awesome at another club of equal or similar level. Or even many others who took a step backwards and rebuilt their career. On FM though this doesn't happen often enough because the market is operating of a strict "CA+Rep" basis.

In real life, any good EPL player offered out for pocket money would attract dozens of suitors. THEN it'd be up to the player to evaluate his options. Some may pull a Bogarde and see out their fat contract sitting on their fat ass, but most would gladly accept a wage cut and a relative "demotion" if it means a new beginning elsewhere.
 

The most annoying thing in FM is, however, how stagnating the transfer market is a at a slightly lower level. A backup for Man United or Barça WILL sooner or later attract interest (whether he'll accept the move is another story), but offloading backups at a low-EPL level and anything below it is a nightmare.
As it's been pointed out, it doesn't make sense when plenty of perfectly fine Championship players rot in the reserves of a midtable act in EPL or are free agents because they're stuck in the grey area where they aren't good enough for a PL club, but they're perceived as too good for the Championship.

Not to mention all those unwanted players can be scooped up by the human player, with a bit of patience and dedication. Thus making the whole transfer market unbalanced and basically a cheating device because AI managers are too "stupid" to see a potential bargain, blinded by the way too rigid system that regulates their transfers.

Edited by RBKalle
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1 hour ago, RBKalle said:

Not to mention all those unwanted players can be scooped up by the human player, with a bit of patience and dedication. Thus making the whole transfer market unbalanced and basically a cheating device because AI managers are too "stupid" to see a potential bargain, blinded by the way too rigid system that regulates their transfers.

It ties into old issue of AI teams buying and playing high rep players with several horrible weaknesses relative to their position/role and sell players with slightly lower rep and CA/PA who have perfect attribute distribution. Human players get a huge advantage on the spot.

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On 12/03/2018 at 15:02, 91427 said:

Anthony Martial (53 goals and 17 assists in about 45 starts and 2 sub appearances, scored an incredible goal in the Champions League final, won the best player in Europe award before winning the World Cup with France while also scoring in that final, value of £67m) - £45m + £30k wage contribution

 

I think it’s all about timing sometimes as I’m at the end of the 1st season on my Man Utd save and after a poor 1st season, I’m having a clear out, and I tested the waters by seeing how much I could get for martial.

If I put him up for sale as soon as the window opened on June 9th got nothing, but if I waited then put him up for sale on 15/16th June I had 2 offers, one from aresnal for 47mil which couldn’t negotiate much and one from Dortmund, who offered 67 mil and I managed to negotiate up to 95mil straight fee.

So actually now leaves me with a decision as to whether to sell martial for 95mil, especially as I have a deal for Dybala accepted for 82mil, which is a bargain considering on a previous save he cost me 120mil and he is a beast on the game.

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OP i feel you. I have a similar experience in my save. Started in the 2nd German division with a mediocre team. After two years I had hoarded some good talents, most of my squad between 17-22 years old, got promoted and nobody wanted my top performers. They were on very low wages, bossed the player stat charts, won young player of the season or similar accolades, some even had low release fees. Not that I wanted to sell them but they weren't even wanted by other clubs. Didn't seem right.

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It is not shocking that the offers you get for players you are clearly looking to move on are low. If you do not want a player, the AI expects to pay as little as possible for them. In fact, if I want a player an AI team no longer wants, I expect to pay a lot less than their normal asking price to acquire them. If you are offering players out, do not expect to receive their value, or even their asking price. You are putting up a big flashing sign saying "I DO NOT WANT THIS PLAYER PLEASE COME AND TAKE HIM", and clubs will oblige.

In my Man United save, I did not try to sell many players in the second season. I did, however, sell Mata to PSG for around £60 million. So it is not impossible to get high offers. The point here was that I had signed him to a new contract, and I was not actively looking to sell. They put in a bid, and I negotiated it to the point where I decided it was a good enough deal that I was not going to refuse. I could buy a replacement I had my eyes on for less than the fee, who was more natural in the position I was playing Mata. I also rejected a tonne of offers on some other important players.

Take Shaw in your example. His contract has a year left to run. You offer him out, saying to the world you will not renew his contract. A club who has an immediate need will put in a low bid, because they assume you think it better to lose him for a fee than for free next year. They know, however, that you are very unlikely to resign, and he is going to be free to approach in January. He has no market value at all in this case, as shown with the bids. I actively monitor players who have 18 months or less on their contracts for this exact reason. You can often pick up a bargain if you bid before a contract extension is offered. It is a great way to get some experience in a side. How many of those players are in a contract year? Any of those that are will have equally low market value.

The most important thing to remember is that the AI is not going to give you more money than they think they have to. Offering players around is what you do when you really want to get someone out of the club and do not care about how much money you get in return. That is the only time I use it. Otherwise, I just transfer list a player (you will get offers), or just set a reasonable asking price and respond positively to news items regarding a team putting in a bid.

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1 ora fa, sporadicsmiles ha scritto:

You are putting up a big flashing sign saying "I DO NOT WANT THIS PLAYER PLEASE COME AND TAKE HIM", and clubs will oblige.

Yet that doesn't even work half of the time, if not for top-level players.

It makes sense that an "unwanted" player may command a lower fee than one you're not actively trying to move. However, it's questionable at best that your perfectly ok backups, who are transfer listed for their actual value (or half-price, or for 0!) aren't given a second look by the AI managers who'd need them in their squad.

Wages and reduced expectations can be an issue, but in real life it's not uncommon for players who are clearly surplus for requirement or out of their depth to move to a smaller club in order to re-establish themselves as football players instead of being known "unused sub #11".

FM doesn't really excel in recreating that dynamics, hence way too many players end up on free transfer, while IRL clubs would lining up to get their signature as soon as they could.

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Players with insane wages (I.e., Sanchez) are really impossible to move - so I was pretty happy to cover 200k euro per week (half his Man Utd salary) when he agreed a 34m euro move to Tottenham.

 

I've also tried "testing" what would be to play as Barca without Messi, Suarez and Neymar (when they had him) - and their wages meant they're practically unsellable.

 

As for reputations, sometimes that's a factor too. To be honest, I'm happy that SI have toned down the importance of average rating, because I remember shifting Jonny Evans to Arsenal for the quite mental 60m euro on a FM installment from a few years ago, because he averaged 7.81 in my cheating/exploiting tactic.

Also, the more players you load, the trickier it is to get good money for your players. I usually stick with about 30k database and I'm pretty happy with the transfer ratios.

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