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Can anyone explain scouting?


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It is such a radical departure from previous FM games I don't know what to make of it.  I used to filter a long list of scouted players by position, and then pick out players I was interested in and assign them to the scouting pool to track individually for X months.  Now the list of scouted players is really short and I get emails where I can "dismiss" or "acknowledge" player recommendations which I don't understand at all.

There's also the matter of the scouting "packages" which makes little sense to me.

How do people handle scouting now?

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10 minutes ago, jujigatame said:

How do people handle scouting now?

I turn off player attribute masking when setting up a game and don't bother with it.

For me, a great example of how to over complicate a relatively simple function for the sake of "realism".  One of the reasons why I'm not playing much FM18.

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27 minutes ago, jujigatame said:

Now the list of scouted players is really short and I get emails where I can "dismiss" or "acknowledge" player recommendations which I don't understand at all.

The tooltips explain exactly what they do though.

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I'm pretty sure nobody understands scouting and packages and charges and why you are seemingly charged to scout players that are in your scouting package and how much and ...and...and.. continue to P94

Some ppl pretend to know and their explanations make zero sense. From SI we are yet to get a comprehensive guide as to how it works. It's their game and if they can't explain it then I don't see how we are supposed to understand it.

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Just now, Triffid said:

From SI we are yet to get a comprehensive guide as to how it works. It's their game and if they can't explain it then I don't see how we are supposed to understand it.

From the FAQ at the top of the page: https://community.sigames.com/faq/football-manager-2018/156_gameplay/scouting/

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I've read the tooltips but I don't really understand how it works.  There are a large amount of players in each meeting and I don't really want to go through all of them individually, especially considering i'm at a point in the season where scouting isn't really that important to me.  What happens when I say "clear all"?  Is that like clicking discard on all?  Or acknowledge on all?  Or neither?  Do only players I've clicked acknowledge on go into my "scouted" list?  Do I no longer have access to a unified list of many hundreds of players with CA/PA star rating estimates for each?

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4 hours ago, jujigatame said:

I've read the tooltips but I don't really understand how it works.  There are a large amount of players in each meeting and I don't really want to go through all of them individually, especially considering i'm at a point in the season where scouting isn't really that important to me.  What happens when I say "clear all"?  Is that like clicking discard on all?  Or acknowledge on all?  Or neither?  Do only players I've clicked acknowledge on go into my "scouted" list?  Do I no longer have access to a unified list of many hundreds of players with CA/PA star rating estimates for each?

And have you looked at the link I posted? There's a huge section about scouting.

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16 hours ago, herne79 said:

I turn off player attribute masking when setting up a game and don't bother with it.

For me, a great example of how to over complicate a relatively simple function for the sake of "realism".  One of the reasons why I'm not playing much FM18.

At some point there needs to be some serious discussion about the future of this game and it’s planned feature roadmap. 

It’s pretty damning when we have mods on here that are unable to support the product after 2 patches.

 

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11 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

I found the FAQ very useful, but where it is lacking is an explanation about scout assignment capacity. It should give an indication of the typical number of assignments/individual player scouting that scouts can carry out concurrently and that further assignments will be placed on hold.

It would also be useful to see more detail on setting up scout assignment filters. What I am thinking here is a 'before' screenshot showing the filters that have been selected and then an 'after' screenshot with the list of scouted players that the scouts found after a certain period of time. In particular it would be useful to split the examples up into transfer/loan/end of contract assignments and to have examples from both LLM and bigger clubs. These could be used as a benchmark so we have an idea of roughly the number of players the scouts should be finding when we set similar assignments.

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Disable attribute masking, use in game editor to show all players in search.

real clubs use the fm database to scout players, so having all players in search isn’t exactly unrealistic.

I feel the packages have been wrongly implemented, since FM itself is a “package”. There isn’t a need for them in game because these packages in real life offer video clips, advanced statistics, etc. 

I watched bust the nets video on him explaining it, and honestly the new implementation is poor. They should have just added a scouting budget to the previous setup, job done.

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14 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

And have you looked at the link I posted? There's a huge section about scouting.

Yes I've read the FAQ.  I still don't understand how to do the simple scouting tasks that I want.  Right now it's September in my season and I may want to start looking for an MR to buy in the winter window.  But when I filter MRs out of my scouted player list, there are literally only 3 players, even though I've picked the "World" package and my scouts have been working for 2-3 months.  How can I have so few players scouted?  How do I increase the size of this list?  The FAQ mentions short-term scouting as a way of searching for a particular player but it also says this is for when you "need a player right now" (1-4 week timeframe) which is not the case for me.

It just seems ridiculous that I'm managing AC Milan and I ask my scouts for MR recommendations and they literally know of 3 guys in the whole world to choose from, none of which are particularly suitable.  How is this realistic?

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2 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Yes I've read the FAQ.  I still don't understand how to do the simple scouting tasks that I want.  Right now it's September in my season and I may want to start looking for an MR to buy in the winter window.  But when I filter MRs out of my scouted player list, there are literally only 3 players, even though I've picked the "World" package and my scouts have been working for 2-3 months.  How can I have so few players scouted?  How do I increase the size of this list?  The FAQ mentions short-term scouting as a way of searching for a particular player but it also says this is for when you "need a player right now" (1-4 week timeframe) which is not the case for me.

It just seems ridiculous that I'm managing AC Milan and I ask my scouts for MR recommendations and they literally know of 3 guys in the whole world to choose from, none of which are particularly suitable.  How is this realistic?

Are you setting the assignments for the scouts or is your director of football or chief scout doing it on your behalf? If it's the latter, I presume the scouting focus is set to general?

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Chief scout is setting specific assignments, and everything is set to general.  It seems like I can only specify a particular position if I go with the "short-term" option.  It seems like the list of scouted players is growing, albeit slowly.  I don't get why a team like AC Milan wouldn't begin with a huge list of already-scouted players though.

Does anyone know what "clear all" does in the scouting meeting?  Is it equivalent of clicking "acknowledge" on all recommended players?  There's no tooltip for it.

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8 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Chief scout is setting specific assignments, and everything is set to general.  It seems like I can only specify a particular position if I go with the "short-term" option.  It seems like the list of scouted players is growing, albeit slowly.  I don't get why a team like AC Milan wouldn't begin with a huge list of already-scouted players though.

Does anyone know what "clear all" does in the scouting meeting?  Is it equivalent of clicking "acknowledge" on all recommended players?  There's no tooltip for it.

It seems that you can set the short-term focus to include players that aren't necessarily interested in joining now through the "All" option.

I have been setting scout assignments myself so have never used general or short-term focus, but I am thinking about testing these from one of my earlier save points to see if the results are any better.

If you took over scouting assignments yourself you could set some detailed filters for the type of MR you want. I have been having trouble using this method, because I have no transfer budget at Oxford City. This means that the number of players that I could buy for £0 or are on non-contract terms taking part in matches that the scouts watch on a transfer assignment is minimal. On the other hand, there ARE plenty of loan players, which I could get for £0, but for some reason (raised as a bug) the scouts seem unable to scout them when given a loan assignment with no conditions.

A transfer assignment for an MR set by yourself might reveal suitable players, as unlike me, you could set your budget to a few million, meaning many more players watched in each game would be potential signings (depending on how stringent your parameters are).

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17 minutes ago, hluraven said:

I had 4 scouts as a Conference club. I set them all to scout the Conference. One year later, 0 reports in total.

I don't know how it is supposed to work, but I'm sure it's not like that.

Do you mean no players recommended through the report cards in the scouting inbox or were there no players added to your scouting > players > scouted list?

Did you specify any particular criteria for their conference assignments? In particular were you looking for transfer/loan/end of contract and did you set any minimum ability requirements?

 

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There were lots of report cards, but they were players/agents recommending themselves - not my scouts. No players at all were added to the scouted list (to be exact, a few that I had requested reports were, zero that the scouts did themselves).

I set no specific criteria. Just generally scout the league I was in. And the four scouts failed to see a single player.

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The way I do it, is ignore Scouting Meetings. They would make sense if they removed the Player Search list, but why would I pay attention to the individual reports, if I can just search and filter through all of them myself when I'm actually looking to sign a player? Even on monthly basis, it takes too much time and hassle, there's already too much clicking in FM18 as it is. I do however like Analyst Reports, so I usually request Scout Reports for the ones with high average ratings and with their value in my price range, so that they will also be added to the Player Search list with a recommendation rating.

I thought about just disabling Attribute Masking altogether, but it makes signing players too easy in my opinion. Then you can just search through players by their attributes, shortlist a few, request quick Scout Reports for their pros and cons and that's it, you can make a perfect signing from the players known to you. Especially smaller clubs have to take risks while signing players in real life all the time, because if they scout the player thoroughly, he will get on the bigger clubs' radar by the time they know every little detail about him. Clubs don't just turn on FM, filter by attributes and then make a call and sign the player. They still have to either watch him personally or go through a lot of his footage, they even look for his background, such as family, school, etc. But each to their own of course, if you want to play with Attribute Masking disabled, then go for it by all means. We all play the game to have fun at the end of the day.

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I must say I like the changes as scouting was ridiculously easy in previous versions. You could, without using any editors or enhancements, very easily have a team full of squad players from the bungesliga, serie a, la liga, the prem, eriesivisie, etc etc in league 1/2 and all for free. All you would need to do is search for all out of contract players, and scout report them. Very easy to have a squad of 20+ foreigners with 5* potential each.

now, the new system is not perfect. It hasn't been implemented quite right. You can dismiss a player in one scout meeting, but still have the same player turn up in every scout meeting for the next 3 years, which is annoying. The scout assignments used to find hundreds of players, now each scout finds less than 10 each. I actually like it cos at least it's 10 players worth signing. There is also the issue of not getting inboxes on scout reports, so you have to go into the scouting centre a lot. However I just like the fact it's a lot harder now.

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20 minutes ago, hluraven said:

There were lots of report cards, but they were players/agents recommending themselves - not my scouts. No players at all were added to the scouted list (to be exact, a few that I had requested reports were, zero that the scouts did themselves).

I set no specific criteria. Just generally scout the league I was in. And the four scouts failed to see a single player.

Ok so you set player assignments with player status 'all' and scope set to 'Vanarama National'. What were your settings for transfer type and transfer budget?

I would definitely report this on the scouting section of the bugs forum.

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44 minutes ago, chestermike said:

now, the new system is not perfect. It hasn't been implemented quite right. You can dismiss a player in one scout meeting, but still have the same player turn up in every scout meeting for the next 3 years, which is annoying. The scout assignments used to find hundreds of players, now each scout finds less than 10 each. I actually like it cos at least it's 10 players worth signing. There is also the issue of not getting inboxes on scout reports, so you have to go into the scouting centre a lot. However I just like the fact it's a lot harder now.

There is definitely something up with the implementation. It's fine if you are telling a scout to watch a particular player and the approaches from free agents is a welcome addition.

Where there is a major problem is with the implementation of scouting assignments where the scouts look for players (of a specified type) in matches they watch. I prefer this method of scouting to the previous where they would come back with a bunch of random players every few days. I don't have an issue with this method resulting in fewer recommendations, but my experience is that they aren't scouting players at all.

What I was expecting from this is for the scout to produce a basic scout report for every player meeting the assignment parameters in each game they watch, even if it's only a couple of % knowledge, just to give an indication of their likely ability (including those with very low recommendation levels). I would only expect report cards in the scouting centre to then appear for any players meeting the minimum recommendation level set in scouting centre preferences.

I have had instances where a scout on a loan assignment has not scouted a player available for loan that has played in a match he has watched. If I then tell the scout to specifically scout that player, he comes back with a report that says the player is a quality signing.

I really hope the next update fixes this issue, as then in my view the scouting system would work very well.

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Although I am "into" FM18 now, after many weeks trying to, I still utterly loathe the new scouting system.  IMHO it is a complete mess and the biggest failing in this years edition.  Unfortunately, SI won't be changing it as they are normally quite stubborn about these things.

For the first time ever and I have been playing since CM Italia way back in 1992, I am playing youth only games to simply bypass the scouting.

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Do you still get match reports for players you've specifically requested to be scouted?  In mid-October in my season I asked the scouting pool to scout 6 or 7 players who are nearing the end of their contracts, to see if any were worth offering a pre-contract to.  It's a week later and I haven't seen any match reports yet, or the notification you used to get "scout X begins assignment on player Y".

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2 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Do you still get match reports for players you've specifically requested to be scouted?  In mid-October in my season I asked the scouting pool to scout 6 or 7 players who are nearing the end of their contracts, to see if any were worth offering a pre-contract to.  It's a week later and I haven't seen any match reports yet, or the notification you used to get "scout X begins assignment on player Y".

This element should be working ok. It does take a minimum of a week to get a report notification in the scouting centre. How long have you scouted them for?

In the meantime, these players should have been added to the scouting > players > scouted list with a basic amount of information in the scout report, which gradually increases until the report is ready.

EDIT - For example, I told a scout to look at a player for 1 week and straightaway I have a report with 1% knowledge with a very rough indication of ability. The next day he plays in an U23 match and my knowledge of the player has risen to 30% with attributes starting to get narrowed down. On scouting > assignments > players the assignment still has 6 days to run, so I won't get a card popping up until that time has lapsed.

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On 12/1/2018 at 16:08, HUNT3R said:

The tooltips explain exactly what they do though.

So where do we find an explanation for the player rating figure? It seems very inconsistent with players getting ratings in the 60s when they're being recommended by a good scout, and said to be at "leading PL level".

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1 hour ago, scass said:

So where do we find an explanation for the player rating figure? It seems very inconsistent with players getting ratings in the 60s when they're being recommended by a good scout, and said to be at "leading PL level".

Well it's how recommended they are, I would suggest that you look at why it's low if you're curious. It may be in the scout's report card. At a guess, you have a great player in that position already so he's being rated against that player.

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At a guess, you have a great player in that position already so he's being rated against that player.

Ah, thank you. Hadn't thought of that! I've not been able to see any other particular reason but that one didn't occur to me.
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On 14/01/2018 at 13:38, DazRTaylor said:

Although I am "into" FM18 now, after many weeks trying to, I still utterly loathe the new scouting system.  IMHO it is a complete mess and the biggest failing in this years edition.  Unfortunately, SI won't be changing it as they are normally quite stubborn about these things.

For the first time ever and I have been playing since CM Italia way back in 1992, I am playing youth only games to simply bypass the scouting.

To be honest we're always open to listening to constructive criticism. If you can pinpoint why you don't like it and what potentially could be done to improve it we'll listen. We're not 'stubborn' so much as unlikely to change something unless we have a better idea or way of doing it. And we do think it's more realistic than the previous implementation so won't be reverting back to how it was in previous versions. 

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Honesty the only thing about the new scouting system i dislike is the fact i have to click through each and every player they file a report on. Acknowledge, discard, analysist report, etc. If they simply just offered you a list of names with their number grade next to it i would like it a whole lot more and would save a lot of time. Then when you click on the scouting tab, instead of the first player card that pops up, a map of the world pops up and it shows you which country every one of your scouts are deployed at that moment.  

Im all for realism but if the practicality or efficiency of the games scouting suffers as a result then i lose interest. And in my opinion this years scouting system is exactly that, inefficient. 

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Am 17.1.2018 um 12:32 schrieb Neil Brock:

To be honest we're always open to listening to constructive criticism. If you can pinpoint why you don't like it and what potentially could be done to improve it we'll listen. We're not 'stubborn' so much as unlikely to change something unless we have a better idea or way of doing it. And we do think it's more realistic than the previous implementation so won't be reverting back to how it was in previous versions. 

I don’t like the extra clicking in comparison to older versions for myself. Maybe some kind of list would be less annoying. This way you could choose to look only at he players, that look somehow interesting to you. Also, the new report card in the scouting tab is not very informative. Why doesn’t it show at least the player attributes and star ratings? I have always to hover over this little "i“. There is so much space unused.

Maybe you wanted to replicate the feeling of managers to look at dozens of dozens of players in real life and then miss one, because you said to yourself: Ah f…. it, that´s enough for today. But this is a game, not work. There has to be a better way to reproduce this.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We're not 'stubborn' so much as unlikely to change something unless we have a better idea or way of doing it. And we do think it's more realistic than the previous implementation so won't be reverting back to how it was in previous versions. 

But this is not a better way of doing it.  At all.  So you do change for the sake of change.  A few other changes in this edition have made things worse so have been changed without making it better, but this thread is about scouting so I will stick to that.

Quite a few examples, both in this thread and the Feedback thread about how the scouts go away and come back some time later with a grand total of three players.  Or none in one example on here.  So hardly realistic at all.

I do genuinely appreciate the effort to make things more “realistic”, and I say that as someone who plays LLM, though not to the detriment of peoples enjoyment.

Finally, you won’t be going back to previous versions because of time and money sunk into creating this new system.  It would of taken many hours coding and testing to get to where it is now, so SI, with their limited budgets, won’t be wasting that and will plod on with this.  It has nothing to do with supposed realism.  If realism was the reason for changing/not changing, then you would of changed the press conferences years ago, instead of he same inane questions time after time.  Or added Tactical Briefing which adds nothing except more pointless and unnecessary clicking.

Anyway, that sounded like a whinge so I apologise, I am just not sure how to put my point across.  No offence intended.

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10 hours ago, Pattric_b said:

Honesty the only thing about the new scouting system i dislike is the fact i have to click through each and every player they file a report on. Acknowledge, discard, analysist report, etc. If they simply just offered you a list of names with their number grade next to it i would like it a whole lot more and would save a lot of time.

Isn't that what you get if you go into Scouting -> Scouted tab? If I understand correctly, all players that your scouts come across should be in there, even the ones that don't get reported to you because of low recommendation rating.

At least that's what I do, I ignore the meetings (hate the unnecessary clicking) and go straight in there for a complete list. I then filter them out myself and decide who I want to be scouted further or removed from the shortlist.

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I've sort of gotten the hang of the new system, but there are definitely things I don't like about it:

1) The search criteria screen is a popup that requires a click to open/close.  So if I'm tweaking my search parameters I have to keep opening and closing it.  This is a baffling change as it seems like a step backwards in interface usability and it doesn't seem like space on that screen is at enough of a premium.

2) I personally preferred having reports on players I specifically requested scouting on to be delivered directly (and individually) to my inbox, so they can be differentiated from reports on players my scouts just found at random.  Right now this doesn't seem to be happening.

3) The "player search" and "scouted" screens are really similar, to the point where they're redundant.  And the fact that each has their own independent search criteria popup is annoying.

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Question about scouting: How do I find out how much it costs to scout a player inside my scouting range to full knowledge?

I know that if I scout a player outside my scouting range, the cost will be taken from the scouting budget, but it still costs money to scout any player, right? It doesn't matter for big clubs, but I have this feeling that I'll drive my 5th tier club into bankruptcy if I keep scouting numerous players to full knowledge, which is what I'm used to doing. I'd be a lot more comfortable if all scouting expenses went from the scouting budget, knowing that if I spend it all, the worst that can happen is that I won't be able to scout anymore until the next season, rather than money being taken from my clubs' balance. I really don't see any logic in splitting costs up like that.

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13 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

And we do think it's more realistic than the previous implementation so won't be reverting back to how it was in previous versions. 

this for me just confirms i will probably never purchase another fm game :(

realism has come at the expense of functionality, practicality, ease of use, in game relevance and probably lots of other ism's people more persevering than me could think of

i might of been able to put up with these things, or left it to a DOF, if other areas of the game had improved similarly. but to claim realism while having such a poorly improved tactical system and match experience is laughable

i dont usually understand how people prefer older versions of the game, but this year i do unfortunately 

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13 hours ago, Wap92 said:

Isn't that what you get if you go into Scouting -> Scouted tab? If I understand correctly, all players that your scouts come across should be in there, even the ones that don't get reported to you because of low recommendation rating.

At least that's what I do, I ignore the meetings (hate the unnecessary clicking) and go straight in there for a complete list. I then filter them out myself and decide who I want to be scouted further or removed from the shortlist.

Yeah you’re absolutely right but i meant when you get all those report cards in your inbox and you have to click through each one. It would be better i think if it was just the list of names similar with their grade, similar to the scouted tab. 

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I like the new scouting.. I only sign players my scouts have come up with, instead of filtering them from the packages. I think the packages offer way too many players still. When you buy the top package it feels like you get every single player in game? 

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I agree with a few of these comments about getting direct emails to the inbox with the scout reports that the manager has requested.

I also like the thought of the scouting meeting being a long list of players rather than 1 per page, because I never read the actual page, I just see the recommendation and expand if it's above 60. The list could contain key info e.g. Name, Position, C.A., P.A., Recommendation Score and Value (or could the manager choose these columns?).

Not sure if there is already a way to do this, but is there a way to see (from the scout report) who has suggested the player in the first place? Whether it was the manager, or whether it was just a scout following instructions?

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On 1/18/2018 at 01:36, lemeuresnew said:

this for me just confirms i will probably never purchase another fm game :(

realism has come at the expense of functionality, practicality, ease of use, in game relevance and probably lots of other ism's people more persevering than me could think of

i might of been able to put up with these things, or left it to a DOF, if other areas of the game had improved similarly. but to claim realism while having such a poorly improved tactical system and match experience is laughable

i dont usually understand how people prefer older versions of the game, but this year i do unfortunately 

"realism has come at the expense of functionality"

TOTALLY agree.

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Also - in terms of deployment of SI's limited resources, why attack an area of comparative strength? Was there much negative feedback around scouting/human transfers as it was? 

If I were really pushing it, SI might be better off saying: "right, what's the one aspect of the game that needs to accelerate most quickly...? Match Engine. Right - let's focus entirely on that for the next version; let's not rest until that has been meaningfully pushed on - both in terms of AI and graphical representation of it - for FM19. 

---

for what it's worth, the scouting thing feels emblematic of a development cycle now too in thrall to the world it's simulating - i.e. football - and not sufficiently in thrall to people who should really matter: its users and customers. 

 

 

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb warlock:

So realism is the most important thing until people don't like it. Then gameplay becomes the most important thing. Just checking...

There are a many ways to keep scouting realistic and fun. The current way seems not to be fun for a part of the users.

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1 hour ago, warlock said:

So realism is the most important thing until people don't like it. Then gameplay becomes the most important thing. Just checking...

there is an obvious difference between realism and the game world, and to suggest otherwise is child like

but, just to be clear, there is nothing 'realistic' about real life managers being able to use the game as a scouting tool when most in game managers cannot get a simple email to there in box about a player they want to know about. do you think any real life scouting team would get away without at least letting there manager know they have done a job and checked a player over? 

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2 minutes ago, lemeuresnew said:

but, just to be clear, there is nothing 'realistic' about real life managers being able to use the game as a scouting tool when most in game managers cannot get a simple email to there in box about a player they want to know about. do you think any real life scouting team would get away without at least letting there manager know they have done a job and checked a player over? 

Go to scouting preferences, change the frequency of reports to daily and you get a report as soon as its ready. Next?

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8 minutes ago, warlock said:

Go to scouting preferences, change the frequency of reports to daily and you get a report as soon as its ready. Next?

not typically a reasonable solution there for me. like saying yeah, i can tell you about the player you ask for soon as, but you have to read all this other rubbish you dont care about every day. the same players, every day. 

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Quote

I want to have some control over scouting assignments but don’t want to have to create all of the assignments myself. Is this possible?

If you assign the scouting responsibility to another member of staff, then that staff member will be in charge of the club’s assignments. However, you can still have an input on these assignments and specifically which type of player the scouts will be looking out for. This can be done via General and Short Term Focuses which can only be set when you do not have the scouting responsibility. These focuses can be set on the Scouting Centre screen or the Assignments screen. General...

For my money, this is where the new scouting design falls down. There are too few options. I would like the opportunity to set nationality in with this, along with filtering out positions too.

If I'm playing 4-3-3 Narrow with Dutch players only, what is the point of being told about an English right winger???

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